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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: Calling God to Hell
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Lucy, you prayers are cherished. [Smile]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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LucyH
Shipmate
# 3570

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Sabine and Kelly Ive shed healing tears after reading your posts which crossed with mine. we gotta get out b4 we' re caght behaving well in here. Sure its not in the rules . lots of love -oops
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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Ariel, as always your words struck a cord. At a slight tangent I am amazed when folk say that religious faith is a crutch for those who can't cope with life. Who else feels that there are times when life would be SO much easier if you categorically say God didn't exist? Because, if he wasn't around at all, you would just have the shit to deal with? Whereas, you are dealing with the shit, PLUS why have you let this happen / why aren't you doing something about it / why aren't you saying anything?

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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The scene: the garden of Gethsemane. Jesus is in agony and despair, anticipating the most gruesome death imaginable, to include bearing the infinite sin of mankind, betrayal of friends and family, and rejection by God. He is sweating blood.

Jesus: God! If there is a way, I beg of you let this cup pass from me.

God: We've been through this before Jesus. What part of 'you have to' don't you understand?

Jesus: You are the Almighty! You are the all-powerful! Surely there is another way?

God: You've already told people that you are the Way, the Truth and the Life. They've started writing it down; do I need to read you a transcript? [Roll Eyes]

Jesus: I have done everything you've asked. I have been obedient to death, even death on a cross. Why do you require this horror?

God: You really can't read can you? Genesis: the Fall, through Adam all die. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. And don't get me started on "you've been such a good boy up to this point." You're telling me you're a rabbi and you never read Job? Please.

Jesus: But I fear that I cannot bear it!

God: Patience, patience. A few hours of suffering and it's over. Three days in the tomb and it's life everlasting. Look, I know it's tough but suck it up. Fer Chrissakes you're the second person of the Trinity. Suddenly you don't trust me/yourself? Why are we having this conversation?

Jesus: All right, that's it asshole! Next fucking time it's you down here you heartless son of a bitch! Of course I can read the fucking Bible. Of course I can quote every goddam line! Our minds are one, shit you know that. The whole point was to become human. A robot could scan and digitize the Bible and look up any apt phrase with the speed of light. I'm talking about death! I'm talking about despair! I'm talking about the lights going out and all the smart money saying they aren't going to come back on because so far, if you check the history you're so quick to quote no one has managed to fucking do it yet!. Hello!! Is anybody there! You're lucky I'm not in a position to kill you because if I could I would just so you'd know what in the fuck I'm talking about.

God: Thank you. That's what we needed to know.

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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JimT--

ROTFL!!!

Somehow, that didn't make it into the Bible...

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Sometimes I do say God doesn't exist. But in myself, I can't answer for others, I'm usually aware that it's me denying it because I want to, not because I believe it to be true. Why God puts up with this I really don't know.

When it comes down to it I really haven't a clue and don't know anything at all about God. I know less now than I ever did, and I only have a handful of memories that span a lifetime to look back on. They felt real at the time. That's about as much as I can say.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Wow.
Jim, I think you are on to something...

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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Hey, Jim, that one's worth publishing. How about 'the real Jesus' version of the Bible?

It would catch on and a lot of people, I'm sure would find it very helpful. But you'd better stay out of the way of REFORM!

p.s. I used up a lot of popcorn reading this thread......

--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
When it comes down to it I really haven't a clue and don't know anything at all about God. I know less now than I ever did, and I only have a handful of memories that span a lifetime to look back on. They felt real at the time. That's about as much as I can say.
Ariel, for your honesty, and your searching, and your treasuring of memories, I honour you. May the end of your seeking be a joyful finding. Wish I had something wise and insightful to say.

[Bad taste tangent alert, to lighten the mood] There is something that might help. I don't know if you've come across this inspirational piece of writing - it's called "Footprints"? [/BTT]

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Yes. I've seen it in a few places, with suitable illustrations. It usually makes me feel quite cynical, but for some reason just recently it's been in my mind a few times.
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QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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God, how I hate that "footprints" thing. [Mad]

I’ve stayed out of this thread so far because, although I can really relate to all the “Calling God to Hell" stuff, it's also been my more recent experience - since I started doing the Zen thing - that prayer does work: in the sense that occasionally the clouds part long enough to let a ray of sunshine slip through. You can't expect more, IMHO. You can't expect to be "carried" (whatever that would involve), since God has no body to carry you with.

I think religion is often counter-productive in dealing with pain. What I’ve found really helpful is this Zen parable: you’re rowing your boat across a lake in thick fog. Another boat bangs into you and you pitch forward, banging your nose hard on the bottom of the boat. You turn round to give the other oarsman an earful…. but there’s no-one there. The other boat was empty and just drifting. There is no-one to get mad with. You just have to deal with it as best you can. God both is and is not but, in this life, the rowing boat is always empty.

I think I hate the footprints story because it twists a great truth into one of those half-truths that is worse than any lie. The ‘great truth,’ I think, is this: sometimes, when you look back over your life, you can see a kind of pattern emerging. A pattern that justifies what you went through, in a very Julian of Norwich “all shall be well, all manner of things shall be well” way. And then you see that prayer maybe did work, even though you didn’t appreciate the ‘help’ you got at the time. At the time, the ‘help’ might have looked a lot more like just another heap of shit. Perspective is everything. And you can’t have perspective while you’re still in pain. But maybe this just doesn’t apply to some people. Maybe I’m deluding myself that it applies to me.

OK – I’ve drawn the target – fire away.

--------------------
Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Qlib:

OK – I’ve drawn the target – fire away.

Anything to oblige [Wink]

The Christianity I believe in proclaims that we are Christ's body on earth - God does have a body. He has mine and yours and every other bugger humble enough to put it at the disposal of hurting, suffering people. That's how God works.

I liked the empty boat story; but of course there is someone to be mad at. The git who let the empty boat drift off in the first place, to potentially hurt and injure, without making sure it was tied up securely. [Big Grin] Be that git God? [Eek!] Whoever, he deserves an earful!

You didn't quite explain, imo, why 'Footprints' doesn't work for you. Although it is rather hackneyed, I find it quite powerful, because it speaks of the reality of God's presence, even in apparent absence, which is something that challenges many people Christian or otherwise. It's quite a simple picture portraying a simple truth - The Lord is here, his Spirit is with us.

--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I liked the empty boat story; but of course there is someone to be mad at. The git who let the empty boat drift off in the first place, to potentially hurt and injure, without making sure it was tied up securely. [Big Grin] Be that git God? [Eek!] Whoever, he deserves an earful!

There is and there isn't. You will never actually know for certain how that boat came to be there. Maybe someone didn't fasten it securely, maybe it was stolen and abandoned, maybe the person in it had an accident and drowned, maybe the ropes just frayed over time, who knows, but all you know is that it's empty, and it's collided with you. The effect is what you have to deal with, not the cause. Zen is remarkably refreshing sometimes.

I don't know why the footprints thing has been coming to mind lately. I still feel cynical about it. Perhaps it's just me wishing it was happening.

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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Ariel, I think I know what you're saying and you're right that it's the effect we deal with, and often we don't know the cause of our problem.

I guess all I'm saying is that ranting at God could be a way that some people have of coping with that 'no-one to blame' syndrome, bearing in mind the idea that all things are in God's hands, if not actually in his control.

I guess, too, it's harder to reconcile oneself to an idea of a benevolent, intervening God - one who responds to prayer - when things like 'the boat story' happen too often for comfort. So again there is arguably a tendancy to shake the fist at the all-powerful One, when things are beyond our control.

Can I ask - and maybe this is better dealt with in PMs - is your approach to Zen meditation/prayer integrated with Christian belief? I know of a few Christians who have found value in Zen, and, apart from perhaps one or two books on the shelf, I realize I don't know a great deal about it. Perhaps there's a 'starter's guide' you could recommend, so I could at least know more about it.

I'm not looking for new ways to pray, or that dissatisfied with my current devotions, nothing like that - though the problems I'm having with the old ways are enough to be going on with! - but it's simply an area I'd like to know more about.

--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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[tangent ON]
Anselmina -

Buddhism is just as bad as Christianity when it comes to denominations; there are a number of subdivisions within Zen Buddhism, although the two main ones are Soto (enlightenment comes slowly) and Rinzai (enlightenment comes suddenly).

My favorite book is Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. It is based on a series of short talks, so it's easy to read one chapter before meditating.

Another book that people might find interesting and useful (although it isn't limited to Zen) is Speaking of Silence: Christians and Buddhists on the Contemplative Way edited by Susan Walker. (Rats, it's out of print - just checked amazon.)

[tangent OFF]

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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

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quote:
Back to the original topic: I once asked God for a divorce. I was desperate and in some pretty severe pain--and so sure that God was showering affections on others, orgetting about me. One night I said, "That's it. Get your stuff and be out by morning."

The next day, the house was strangely quiet. But I felt good. I mean goooooood . I stood up for myself and wasn't going to take it anymore.

However, after a few days, while I was cleaning the dining room, I had a profound sense that God was in the corner of the room. I remember thinking, "You didn't leave!" (with a real sense of relief).

God and I are back together now, and we still have some moments of being totally out of sync with each other (and some arguments), but I think we're going to make it.

EXACTLY!!!

Described it so well sabine - I am sure there are others here who also identify closely with your situation. ("I am getting a divorce!!! Get your stuff and go!" Ha!)

Christina Marie:

I just cannot believe you have been posting what you have, given your own experiences. I would've thought that your experiences if anything would teach you something about the nature of religious experience.

I forget who said it, but I think they are right: We would not be able to rant and rave at God UNLESS we loved. (And believed everything necessary to salvation etc etc.)

As Ariel said, we can't live with him, can't live a moment without him. And that's the way it is.

If it's any comfort, instead of giving something up this Lent I am making a committment: my penance for the 40 days and nights is to say morning prayer and compline... In the hope that maybe our relationship can... go somewhere else.

I hate being where I am.

Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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The "Footprints" thing usually bothers me, too.

If it's true, all I can say is that God is clumsy and drops us a lot. [Eek!]

It's one thing to say you've been carried when you *feel* it, and you have a reliable human support network, and things that occasionally go your way to make life more liveable.

It's another thing when any part of that is missing.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ophelia's Opera Therapist
Shipmate
# 4081

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Another annoying one is:

"If God feels far away, guess who moved..."

AAAARRRGGGHHH. [Mad]

--------------------
Though the bleak sky is burdened I'll pray anyway,
And though irony's drained me I'll now try sincere,
And whoever it was that brought me here
Will have to take me home.
Martyn Joseph

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St. Punk the Pious

Biblical™ Punk
# 683

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quote:
Originally posted by OutOfTherapy:
Another annoying one is:

"If God feels far away, guess who moved..."

AAAARRRGGGHHH. [Mad]

That one annoys me, too. The most godly people have dry times where God feels distant, as in the Psalms.

--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

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ChrisT

One of the Good Guys™
# 62

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quote:
Originally posted by OutOfTherapy:
Another annoying one is:

"If God feels far away, guess who moved..."

AAAARRRGGGHHH. [Mad]

The same idiots that say this will also, and often in the same breath, quote Job, Now in Jobs case - who was it that moved the goalposts?

--------------------
Firmly on dry land

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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As y'all are referencing Job, I thought I'd share a song Matt Redman wrote based on Job.

It expresses a very hard sentiment, and I am not suggesting that it is something that everyone must get hold of, and if they don't they're scum/bad christians/whatever. It's (AFAIR) the idea Job eventually came round too, after shouting at God a lot.

The link is Blessed Be Your Name.

Hope this helps,

Viki

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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Ophelia's Opera Therapist
Shipmate
# 4081

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Looking at that song I actually quite like it, especially compared to so many other songs which do not even acknowledge that there are desert places or suffering roads. These songs must be listed on another thread somewhere...

What does it mean though, to sing Blessed be God's Name? To me it doesn't actually say that much. I know it occurs in a lot of songs. I'm sure there are plenty of awful people who have nice names that mean spiritual things. I could probably say their name is blessed even while I hated them or what they did....

--------------------
Though the bleak sky is burdened I'll pray anyway,
And though irony's drained me I'll now try sincere,
And whoever it was that brought me here
Will have to take me home.
Martyn Joseph

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LucyH
Shipmate
# 3570

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Jim T I was shocked by the daring of your post and laughed alot ....and thought. This morning in my somewhat conservative church Jeus seemed more real. [I'm sure Mary brought him up never to swear which is why the wrong version turned up in the gospels] [Snigger] .

but THANKS IT REALLY HELPED Lucyx

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Lucy, reminds me of a line in Anne LaMott's "Travelling Mercies", where she talked about doing something so bad it would be enough "to make Jesus drink gin right out of the cat dish"!

[Killing me]

Doubt Mary taught him *that*, either!

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Anne Lamott and Jesus are such total buds; I love her work.

In "All New People" she speaks of the protagonist's devout but opressed mother going into the backyard and calling God a cheesed**k, among other things, to the horror of her staunch Catholic next-door-neighbors.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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I'd like to acknowledge the comments on my last post and say that if it comforted some I'm happy, if it jarred some I can live with that, and if it offended I am sorry. Still, I feel a need to say what I do. This is the most meaningful forum I can find to work out the twisted humor, despair, irony, truth, and confusion tucked away in the recesses of my memories as a Pentecostal preacher's kid. I never got to take the pulpit and give my rebuttal, straight from the gut, so I guess that's what I do here sometimes. My last post was a little 'Gonzo' like Hunter S. Thompson. It's vugar, it's violent, it's fictional, but somehow it seems more real to me than real life.
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by golden key:
Lucy, reminds me of a line in Anne LaMott's "Travelling Mercies", where she talked about doing something so bad it would be enough "to make Jesus drink gin right out of the cat dish"!

[Killing me]

Doubt Mary taught him *that*, either!

Don't know about that! Some glowing guy in a pair of wings and a nightdress tells you, an unmarried woman, you're pregnant with God's child, thank you very much? If ever there was an occasion to reach for the gin bottle, er... cat-dish?! [Ultra confused]

I'm betting the official church-approved Magnificat response came long after! [Razz]

--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

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Anselmina - I agree God uses others to help us. But I just think that reinforces the point that He doesn't carry us - and if He ever did, we'd surely notice. Being carried piggy-back by a divine (non/)entity is the kind of thing even the most abstracted of us would remark upon.

Anyway... sometimes there is no-one to help. I agree basically with what Ariel said about the empty rowing boat. The point is that shit just happens. And the shit is not fairly distributed.

Actually, there is more to say about the empty rowing boat, I think, but it's more a Purgatorial matter and I ain't in the mood for it.

Praying for all those here in pain and darkness, of whatever kind.

--------------------
Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
The point is that shit just happens. And the shit is not fairly distributed.
Amen, Jesus!

Actually, I'm not sure things would be easier if it were fairly distributed. What I object to is having it dumped on me. I don't care whether it is/is not dumped on other people.

Moo

--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.

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Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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... and I get kind of pissy with other people who think that if their lives have been blessed with a lesser degree of shittyness they must be in some special way extra holy or loved by God.

the holiest people I know are the ones who bear great burdens cheerfully, honestly and gracefully. Not the freaking saps who are either lucky or do so little as to never actually have anything in their lives to be screwed up/shat upon.

Pah!

P

--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.

Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Jim my response to you "sketch" was Holy cow..that makes sense!

Lucy said it made her experience Jesus in a whole new way.

"By their fruits shall ye know them..." thanks for taking a chance on us. I think it made a big difference.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
JimT

Ship'th Mythtic
# 142

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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I don't care whether it is/is not dumped on other people.

Moo, I have read your posts for years and am both shocked and deeply pleased to hear this frank confession. [BEGIN SING-SONGY VOICE] You mean you don't count it a blessing when you are called to suffer in His name, as Paul did? I love trials and temptations because it just means the Lord is preparing me for some great work! [Yipee] [/END SING-SONGY VOICE]

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
the holiest people I know are the ones who bear great burdens cheerfully, honestly and gracefully. Not the freaking saps who are either lucky or do so little as to never actually have anything in their lives to be screwed up/shat upon. (Emphasis mine.)

Pyx, I was walking into the Oregon State University library the other day, weary at the challenges of going back to college at age 48 when I saw this etched in stone on the steps up: "Very few people apply themselves with enough fervor and focus to truly merit the term 'failure.'" I found it tremendously uplifting. If I fall on my face in this life or the next, it won't be for a lack of trying, that's for damn sure.
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scarlet

Mellon Collie
# 1738

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quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
... and I get kind of pissy with other people who think that if their lives have been blessed with a lesser degree of shittyness they must be in some special way extra holy or loved by God.

I finally left a kinship group because they all seemed to have this attitude. I felt that I had to quench my desire to be transparent in my pain, doubt and suffering. Actually, I was asked quite frequently didn't I "have any secret sins to confess." [Mad] As if my life could be "blessed like theirs", if only I would "make the right Christian choices." (Another zippy phrase they tended to use to explain why they were so blessed with God's presence and activity in their lives.)

After I left the kinship group, I then just left the entire denomination. [Disappointed]

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They took from their surroundings what was needed... and made of it something more.
—dialogue from Primer

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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quote:
Originally posted by OutOfTherapy:
Looking at that song I actually quite like it, especially compared to so many other songs which do not even acknowledge that there are desert places or suffering roads. These songs must be listed on another thread somewhere...

Yes, and this is why I like the song. It announces that there are good places and there are bad places; there are good times, and there are fucking shit times; there are holidays and there are pain-filled days. And it solidly puts God into it.

quote:
What does it mean though, to sing Blessed be God's Name?
Good question. Answer: I don't know for certain. My understanding is that the song is saying that throughout everything, God is good, and [person] will bless Him rather than cursing Him. Which is a flipping hard thing to say and to truly mean: as a trite phrase it trips off the tongue quite easily. But saying it and meaning it is very hard. Job got to this point at the end of a long struggle, after he'd walked the path filled with suffering. Jesus ranted at God as he looked long and hard at the pain that was to come. Yet in the end, He gave Himself into God's hands as he died.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this is a place you probably reach after a long and pain-filled walk, trhough dry and desert lands. It's not somewhere you get to quickly and easily. And it's ok, more than ok, it's expected, that you rant and God, and curse him up in heaps, and get flipping angry with Him along the way. Saying God is good throughout everything is almost an end point, not a stage in the middle of the christian journey and certainly not a start-place. People that try and say it is have either forgetten the journey, or never made it.

Viki

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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welsh dragon

Shipmate
# 3249

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quote:
Originally posted by sarkycow:
Saying God is good throughout everything is almost an end point, not a stage in the middle of the christian journey and certainly not a start-place.

I remember my mum, when she had terminal breast cancer, and had fractured yet another bone, lying in casualty for hours waiting to be admitted for yet another operation. She had had fractures of both arms, one unhealed and she had now broken a leg. "God is good", she said.

Mind you, that wasn't exactly what I was saying...

Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Bessie, groups that encourage you to come up with a confession when you don't feel the need are not to be trusted. This is a common practice in some of the more dangerous cults. People's Temple, for example.

Glad you got out.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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About divorcing God: I did that, and it lasted quite a while. And to this day I think it was the healthy thing to do at the time. I consider the time I spent as an atheist as a necessary part of my spiritual journey.

quote:
Originally posted by sabine (I think, if I haven't totally messed up):
However, after a few days, while I was cleaning the dining room, I had a profound sense that God was in the corner of the room. I remember thinking, "You didn't leave!" (with a real sense of relief).

Sometimes I think God is seriously co-dependent.
[Wink]

quote:

If it's any comfort, instead of giving something up this Lent I am making a committment: my penance for the 40 days and nights is to say morning prayer and compline... In the hope that maybe our relationship can... go somewhere else.

At the risk of trying to be helpful and failing miserably (swat me upside the head if that's the case), my priest once said that God really appreciates it if we keep praying when it's totally dry and unproductive for us - that God is getting something out of it at those times, even if we aren't. I of course feel free at such times to say to God, "I hope you're getting something out of this, you bastard! Are you happy now? Are you?"
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
[BEGIN SING-SONGY VOICE] You mean you don't count it a blessing when you are called to suffer in His name, as Paul did? I love trials and temptations because it just means the Lord is preparing me for some great work! [[Yipee]] [/END SING-SONGY VOICE]
I have been fortunate enough never to have heard anyone say anything like this. I am aware that some people talk this way, but I have been blessed in never encountering them.

Moo

--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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I once stayed in a guesthouse where the landlady was a member of the Salvation Army, and we got chatting, and her eyes lit up as she said, "Oh, I just love being persecuted for the Lord! It makes me feel so strong!"
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I once stayed in a guesthouse where the landlady was a member of the Salvation Army, and we got chatting, and her eyes lit up as she said, "Oh, I just love being persecuted for the Lord! It makes me feel so strong!"

Another strong argument for taking the tablets. See what happens when you miss your medication? [Disappointed]

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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Hmmmm....as Ken so graphically has shown, long flames feel so good, but short ones seem to be more effective.

Can this be broadened on to indicate rants at God are more effective if short?

I find as my life becomes more oriented to the "Just In Time" system of living (get it when you need it, work on the project just before its due etc.), my prayers get more immediate but shorter. My rants at God are also more immediate and shorter too. No time to reflect, unfortunately, but lots of time to shout out, "Hey, God, why'd you let that happen?" Thankfully, because life is fairly busy, God also gives me a distraction or two before any answer arrives, if one does at all.

P.S. I prophecy the newbie will get flamed again.
That one seems new to discussion groups as a whole.

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
[BEGIN SING-SONGY VOICE] You mean you don't count it a blessing when you are called to suffer in His name, as Paul did? I love trials and temptations because it just means the Lord is preparing me for some great work! [[Yipee]] [/END SING-SONGY VOICE]
I have been fortunate enough never to have heard anyone say anything like this. I am aware that some people talk this way, but I have been blessed in never encountering them.

Moo

(torrid confession)
I used to talk this way when I was a teenager. Surprised the adults around me let me live.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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I know someone who deliberately stirs up controversy in his church - because then he feels he must be doing the right thing because the devil is attacking him. He thrives on the 'persecution', but it is very emotionally exhausting for members of the congregation......

--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amos

Shipmate
# 44

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Gosh. Has he moved down to Devon then? Or is there one in every diocese?

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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken

Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Gosh. Has he moved down to Devon then? Or is there one in every diocese?

One in every church. Have you never read the bit where Paul talks about the thorn in his side? [Wink]

Viki

--------------------
“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

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quote:
quote:

If it's any comfort, instead of giving something up this Lent I am making a committment: my penance for the 40 days and nights is to say morning prayer and compline... In the hope that maybe our relationship can... go somewhere else.

At the risk of trying to be helpful and failing miserably (swat me upside the head if that's the case), my priest once said that God really appreciates it if we keep praying when it's totally dry and unproductive for us - that God is getting something out of it at those times, even if we aren't. I of course feel free at such times to say to God, "I hope you're getting something out of this, you bastard! Are you happy now? Are you?"

ROFL Ruth! Not that I have *ever* said that, oh no, never! [Snigger] [Big Grin]
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
ChrisT

One of the Good Guys™
# 62

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quote:
Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
quote:
quote:

If it's any comfort, instead of giving something up this Lent I am making a committment: my penance for the 40 days and nights is to say morning prayer and compline... In the hope that maybe our relationship can... go somewhere else.

At the risk of trying to be helpful and failing miserably (swat me upside the head if that's the case), my priest once said that God really appreciates it if we keep praying when it's totally dry and unproductive for us - that God is getting something out of it at those times, even if we aren't. I of course feel free at such times to say to God, "I hope you're getting something out of this, you bastard! Are you happy now? Are you?"

ROFL Ruth! Not that I have *ever* said that, oh no, never! [Snigger] [Big Grin]
Me neither. I just wave my tambourine harder and sing in glee when things are going bad. Don't you?

--------------------
Firmly on dry land

Posts: 6489 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Back again, God.

I gotta give you points for creativity. What should have been a tiny little sore is getting aggravated over and over again until it will turn into a scar. How much lower do you need me? And--be honest, here--are my pleas for help provoking you? I ask for help, and you glance down from your crossword puzzle and say "Hmm...haven't discouraged, shamed, or terrorized her in a while." Or, "Hey, she's found something that makes her feel competent and talented---what's the quickest way we can deprive her of that feeling? "

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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{{{Kelly}}}

Maybe we need to get God a book of easier crossword puzzles, so She can pay more attention?

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848

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Let me second those hugs Kelly.

Don't have anything to call you on atm God. [Smile] But you better be listening to others who need you...

Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged



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