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» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Hell: F*$#! in the middle of the service. (Page 7)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: F*$#! in the middle of the service.
John Donne

Renaissance Man
# 220

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Wanderer, I've come across that liturgy also, I have a feeling it is cultural pillaging of a traditional American Indian Christian liturgy - in fact, I seem to have a memory of someone in MW saying their father was a pastor on a reservation that used this form.

Wasn't comfortable with it 'cos it felt a bit animisty. That, and I just hate friggin' white middle class Anglicans seconding indigenous Oz/American Indian culture for their trendy aren't-we-so-broadminded-and- cutting-edge modern use.

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Out of interest I looked this one up and found it was an amended and abridged version of an American Indian prayer to the Five Winds (they left out the Earth Wind and the bit about invoking the Great Mother). Fine in its right setting, but not in a church.

What surprised me during the online search for it was discovering it used in services elsewhere - adapted by an American nun as well - but suitably topped and tailed with a nice sort of prayer that didn't mention God, just invoked the "longtime light".

I have to say I agree with you, Coot. While I'm all in favour of learning from other traditions, if I was a churchgoer, I would find this a step too far. Some things are simply not compatible with Christianity and you can amend them as much as you want but by doing so, you compromise the spirit of either one or the other.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Thank you Coot and Ariel, it's good to have my gut feelings confirmed. Like you I think there is something rather false about wrenching items from one tradition and forcing them into another. The whole thing smacked more than a little of the naff, and I've since heard several members of the choir wanted to walk out but felt they couldn't.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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kittylou
Apprentice
# 4036

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My F-bomb moment came on Good Friday last year. Our church had a traditional service in the middle of the day, from noon to 3 p.m., very solemn and quiet. So far, so good. However, we weren't done yet. At 5 p.m. there was a service/program targeted toward children to help them understand the Stations of the Cross. The children (plus parents and anyone else who wanted to attend) went to different places in the church buildings to hear the Stations of the Cross in story form and to participate in some sort of tactile experience such as washing of the hands, pounding nails into a piece of wood, etc., so reinforce what they were hearing. The groups that came to my station were very reverent and the children really got into the story and seemed to understand the solemnity of the occasion.

The f*$#! moment came when we went back to the church itself for the closing part of the service. I expected a prayer, possibly a reminder about the next evening's Easter Vigil service, and a dismissal. Nope. Our Director of Christian Ed (who was in charge of the service) apparently decided that the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ was too "heavy" and sad for the kids, so we had 10 minutes of happy-clappy-shouty songs so that everybody could "feel good" before we left. I'm afraid it left me outraged instead. [Mad]

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I'm still thinking...

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magnum mysterium
Shipmate
# 3418

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Had a f*** moment yesterday on the first Sunday in lent when the rector, despite my exhortations about proper custom, included the Alleluia before the Gospel. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

At least he omitted the Gloria.

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Old Hundredth
Shipmate
# 112

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quote:
Originally posted by Magnum Mysterium:

At least he omitted the Gloria.

Ours didn't. [Mad] We will probably have it throughout Lent unless the clergy remember to omit it (however we have been known to accidentally omit it at other times than Lent), but on Easter Sunday we don't have it at the 10.30 service, which is the major one, because we have a truncated form of Common Worship Communion following an All-Age service. Because of the structure of Common Worship with the Gloria at the beginning (as opposed to BCP where it is at the end) it means that we miss it out on the day for which it is most appropriate.

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If I'm not in the Chapel, I'll be in the bar (Reno Sweeney, 'Anything Goes')

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Laura
General nuisance
# 10

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quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
* The words were not poetic, but twee and banal.

This is mostly what I object to in "new, improved" language. It is not only not a theological improvement on the authorized or traditional versions; it is often hackneyed, twee, or Hallmark-card-y.

I recently talked a good friend out of "writing their own vows" as a way of giving a nod to both Jewish and Christian backgrounds. I'm not normally an interfer-er, but since I was consulted, I recommended using one or the other tradition's vows; I told her that if she wrote her own vows, 5% of the twee members of the congregation woould think it sweet; and everyone else would stifle giggles at the "I promise to affirm your individuality..." kinda stuff. And in what way is "I promise to respect your space and help you grow as a person," an improvement on the assorted variations of the timeless, "I n, take thee, n, to be my wedded wife/husband ... for better, for worse..." or "Be sanctified unto me as my wife/husband according to the traditions of Moses and Israel..."

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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm

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jugular
Voice of Treason
# 4174

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I include here an account of the worst baptism I have ever experienced.

The context : four female 8th grade (2nd form) students at the school I was teaching at, wanted to get confirmed, but had not been baptised, and so needed to get "done". [brick wall]

The Cast : Fr Arthur. Australians will be familiar with "Uncle Arthur", a comical character who is completely deaf and quite mad. They are practically one and the same person.

The "Service": The four kids (one of whom was buddhist and had never been to church before!) turned up and Father turned up about 15 minutes late. Each of the girls were dressed in the best outfits. For "best" read "sluttiest" i.e, midrifs, gaudy jewellery, knee high boots. Father Arthur had decided that, for the first time in his life, he would use the new prayer book service, seeing as how they were young people and all. Unfortunately he had only made four copies of the liturgy, for the 15 or so people there.

Oh, did I mention he forgot his glasses?

So he races through the prayers at breakneck speed, not stopping to breath, then launches into 20 minutes of weak, wandering stories from his weak, wandering life to illustrate his main point which was.... um... well something. [Roll Eyes]

He then summoned the girls to the front and proceeded to manhandle them into place, leering at their scanty clothing. He says, "So, who wants to go first?". They all, embarassed, look away. "how about you", he says, "what's your name?". May I, at this point, emphasise that Father Arthur had been preparing the class for baptism for SIX WEEKS. So one of the girls says her name, he throws water over her and mumbles the right words. Of course, she's standing up, so water runs down onto her skimpy white top so, hello!, we've got a wet t-shirt competition happening! [Two face]

The part, though, that really made me say F*#k, was when he said, at the end, "There you go, girls, now that's over with!". It was a truly spiritual moment. [Projectile]

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We’ve got to act like a church that hasn’t already internalized the narrative of its own decline Ray Suarez

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ChrisT

One of the Good Guys™
# 62

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The Rev. Geralds' influence stretches far and wide...

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Firmly on dry land

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jugular
Voice of Treason
# 4174

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It would be funny if it weren't true. This description actually leaves out my muttered "Oh F*^% throughout the whole thing. [Frown]

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We’ve got to act like a church that hasn’t already internalized the narrative of its own decline Ray Suarez

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Sooty Puss
Shipmate
# 4155

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. . . wet t-shirt competition

Now that sounds like progress [Killing me]

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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I think that one wins my "Best of Thread" pick.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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plato
Apprentice
# 4034

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hmm...? listening to the most boring bastard going, (filling in for holidaying vicar).. He was at least 150 yrs old, and telling us how we need never suffer pain or illness ever. we just needed to say the sinners prayer and we would all be healed instantly, if you were'nt, then you had no faith. took an ex-biker with me that morn. he suffers from migraines and ms.
old fart comes over afterwards and tries to talk. I'm desperate to get him away from said biker, because I know the way he thinks. old fart starts to berate him over his lack of faith. arm extends, fist connects and preacher folds up in the middle, biker says in a loud voice, well? i can't hear the fucking prayer! where's the bloody miracle then?

for some reason he gave up preaching, strange that?

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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Welcome plato to both Hell and the Ship in general. Please check the guidelines for each board before posting on them - saves unintentional roastings [Wink]

Apart from that, all I can say is that biker mate's response sounds like a good one [Wink] [Big Grin]

Viki, hellhost

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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magnum mysterium
Shipmate
# 3418

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quote:
Originally posted by Magnum Mysterium:
Had a f*** moment yesterday on the first Sunday in lent when the rector, despite my exhortations about proper custom, included the Alleluia before the Gospel. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

At least he omitted the Gloria.

And on Lent II they put the Alleluia in again, despite more pleas for us to do it properly. [brick wall]

So I left.

I probably shouldn't have, as I suppose it was a sign of defeat. But I shall keep up the fight.

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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What DO they train 'em at Theological College these days? How to plug in the Alpha video, I suppose [Roll Eyes] ......

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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[Killing me]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Ok, yesterday is Easter sunday. I come to church with my family. Sis has been fighting with her boyfriend for two days and is in tears, nephew has a sigularly unconvincing brave-little-soldier smile on his face, mom is freaked out because a checkbook mishap has left her 2000 in the red, and I am having a couple of days of seriously missing my ex-in-laws. In other words, a typical fucking Alves family gathering.

Th sermon is about ressurection, and while the minister isn't really saying anything new, I am trying to follow and get into the spirit of things. At one point he says," but I want to warn you because it sounds like I'm saying thatbecause Jesus is risen, everything will be all right. This is not true."
I sigh with relief. Good, I think, He will take time to acknowledge the brokenhearted.

"...it is not true," he continues'because some people graduate,and some don't."

Huh?

"Some people embrace the Resurrection, and some don't.Some people claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and some push him away. Some accept the blessings of Jesus Christ, and some reject them. Therefore some experience resurrection, and some remain in their sin."

I have never wished so fervently that Erin Etheridge attended my church. My now decidedly ex-churc. Refer to "calling God to Hell" for a detailed description of my opinon of people who imply that the abscence or prescence of 'blessing' in a person's life indicates the quality of their relationship with God.

Happy freaking Easter, you name-it-and-claim-it potzer.By the way, what did my nephew (who sings "Jesus loves me" all day) do to push God away? I'd be happy to tell him that his folks will stop fighting if he just stops rejecting the Resurrection. Up yours, you ecclesiastical infant.
[Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Ok, yesterday is Easter sunday. I come to church with my family. Sis has been fighting with her boyfriend for two days and is in tears, nephew has a sigularly unconvincing brave-little-soldier smile on his face, mom is freaked out because a checkbook mishap has left her 2000 in the red, and I am having a couple of days of seriously missing my ex-in-laws. In other words, a typical fucking Alves family gathering.

Th sermon is about ressurection, and while the minister isn't really saying anything new, I am trying to follow and get into the spirit of things. At one point he says," but I want to warn you because it sounds like I'm saying thatbecause Jesus is risen, everything will be all right. This is not true."
I sigh with relief. Good, I think, He will take time to acknowledge the brokenhearted.

"...it is not true," he continues'because some people graduate,and some don't."

Huh?

"Some people embrace the Resurrection, and some don't.Some people claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and some push him away. Some accept the blessings of Jesus Christ, and some reject them. Therefore some experience resurrection, and some remain in their sin."

I have never wished so fervently that Erin Etheridge attended my church. My now decidedly ex-churc. Refer to "calling God to Hell" for a detailed description of my opinon of people who imply that the abscence or prescence of 'blessing' in a person's life indicates the quality of their relationship with God.

Happy freaking Easter, you name-it-and-claim-it potzer.By the way, what did my nephew (who sings "Jesus loves me" all day) do to push God away? I'd be happy to tell him that his folks will stop fighting if he just stops rejecting the Resurrection. Up yours, you ecclesiastical infant.
[Mad] [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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(Please ignore duplicate post. Flood control issues. I thought I had stopped the post.I suck. I have not fully embraced the ressurection, and my fruits are revealing me. mea cupla, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Flog, flog, flog.)

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

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Kelly, you need to start carrying an air horn to church.
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194

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It was a large and modern church, easily seating 700 hundred. At night however, the 50 or so sat down the front, and we turned the back lights mostly off, after the start of the service. It was more cosy that way. However the street lights shone thru the windows, and the minister at least could see right thru the building to the night outside. It was my first year of ministry, and that night I took the service, whilst the senior minister sat with his family down the front.

The organist was a dear woman- so committed to the task that she came with the reasonably newish babe- but that night she looked a little tired. So after the readings she took said babe down to the Cry Room, a large glassed-off area at the back of church, with a good sound system (she could hear me but not vice-a-versa.) Some curtains gave her an element of privacy- but, this night at least not enough. The outside lights shone gently into the Cry Room, as I could see from the pulpit. The congregation, of course, faced the wrong way to see in there.

She spent a lont time in there, and I wondered if she had fallen asleep. Her husband obviously wondered that too- so he quietly tiptoes down there to check. Unaware that I could see it all.... he went into the Room, and walked over to her- to give her a hug- or so I thought. But lo! He was carried away, and the hug was not enough. They proceeded then to "know each other" in the biblical sense- gently, quietly, but thoroughly. I was somewhat flummoxed.

Should I have spoken into the mic system, thus alerting them that I could see into the Room- and letting the whole congregation know what was happening? Well, unsure of the correct procedure, I decided to continue the sermon. I figured that maybe they had turned the sound system off. The senior minister knew something had stunned me andtaken my attention away from the body of my sermon, but obviously he was unsure as to what exactly...

As my sermon stumblingly drew to an end, the couple reappeared- in time for the next hymn. Her clothes looked a bit rumpled- but those around her smiled benignly at them- no doubt pleased she had gone off to care for the baby, and that her husband had slipped out to help. Oh yes, he had helped all right.

And ever after that, whenever I looked at them.... [Eek!]

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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...

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Second Mouse

Citizen of Grand Fenwick
# 2793

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((Kelly)) - That's so rubbish.

Your post reminded me of a home group I once went to, discussing healing and faith and related issues. One guy was holding forth that healing could still happen today, (which I don't have a problem with), and that if only we prayed with enough faith, then it would happen.

This was only a few months after my dad had died, and I was still very fragile. He knew this, and was a caring sort of chap, but I think he just wasn't thinking through the implications of what he was spouting. I asked him if that meant it was my fault my dad had died, because I hadn't had enough faith when I'd prayed, and he got all embarrassed and started changing what he was saying.

Rowan - [Killing me]

Claire

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St. Punk the Pious

Biblical™ Punk
# 683

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Rowen, that is hilarious! I wonder if you found out that evening the reason they like church so much. [Snigger]

Kelly, I'm with you on that name-it-and-claim-it garbage. Faith does make a difference. And "God is a rewarder of those who seek Him." But prosperity theology and it's influence is poison.

--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Wally---- [Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me]

Rowen--I'd rather go to your church. [Big Grin]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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David
Complete Bastard
# 3

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On Sunday my 5-yr old another were amusing themselves during church by casting spell at each other - you know, "Wingardium Leviosa" and the type. Nothing too dangerous or demonic. A woman sitting behind them stood up and suggested that we pray as a church regarding the influence that TV and movies have on children these days.

Had I been there at that point, she would have got an Easter punch in the head.

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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quote:
Originally posted by David:
Had I been there at that point, she would have got an Easter punch in the head.

Is that the type of punch that lifts them off their feet? Or am I thinking of an Ascension punch?

[Big Grin]

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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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Warrior Tortoise
Shipmate
# 2682

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Originally quoted by Magnum Mysterium
quote:
Had a f*** moment yesterday on the first Sunday in lent when the rector, despite my exhortations about proper custom, included the Alleluia before the Gospel. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

At least he omitted the Gloria.

Can someone explain why this is such a dreadful thing to do?

I'm a Methodist.... [Embarrassed]

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"Inconceivable!" You use that word a lot, I do not think it means what you think it means. - The Princess Bride

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Mr. Tortoise? In liturgical churches, it is traditional to withhold the "alleluiah" during Lent, out of deference to the somber nature of the season.

Now back to our scheduled bitch session

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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quote:
Originally posted by Rowen:
It was a large and modern church.....

Rowen, you have been a minister for a few years now. Why is this the first time that I have heard this tale? I ask because this thread has been around for quite a while, and your tale is obviously about 'fucking in the middle of the service'.

Are you being truthful? Or have you constructed a rather lush urban myth for us?

bb

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PeachyKeenJellybean
Shipmate
# 4077

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Rowen:

That was indeed a f*$#! in the middle of the service!

[Embarrassed] [Embarrassed] [Embarrassed]

PKJb

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Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

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Rowen, is there a branch of your church in the U.S.?
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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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No kidding, Wally.

Babybear--oh ye of little faith! [Disappointed]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Beenster
Shipmate
# 242

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Rowen - did you discover whether the coupling couple had enjoyed the sermon?
Posts: 1885 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

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quote:
No kidding, Wally.
I never used to look in Hell either. Turns out this is where all the "action" is.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Warrior Tortoise
Shipmate
# 2682

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I'm a Ms Tortoise, but that's OK.

I asked about the Alleluia thing cos it's seems remarkably petty (IMHO).

What makes me say fuck is the abomination of how the Karen people of Myanmar are being treated by the military, how oppressed Christians are in China, the political situation in North Korea, those who are victims of domestic violence etc etc

Not whether (God forbid) someone got a piece of liturgy wrong and upset custom.

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"Inconceivable!" You use that word a lot, I do not think it means what you think it means. - The Princess Bride

Posts: 82 | From: the pit of despair | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Obviously Magnum hasn't graduated, and needs to embrace the resurrection properly so as not to be bothered by such petty things. Go flog yourself, Magnum!

NOW! I MEAN IT! [Mad]

oh, and I shall flog myself, too, for the gender cock-up. Actually deserve one on that issue for someone else. So many reasons to flog one's self. Sigh. I could get to like this. Any advice, Chastmastr?

Seriously though? There are plenty of dead serious thread on these boards, both in Hell and Purgatory. On this thread we give ourselves permission to be a little petty.Helps release the steam, you know what I mean?

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Warrior Tortoise:
Not whether (God forbid) someone got a piece of liturgy wrong and upset custom.

But Warrior Tortoise, don't you understand? We're talking about AN ALLELUIA DURING LENT! not something petty like too much charcoal in the thurible. Everybody knows God is fairly laid back about things like that as long as it doesn't happen too often.
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266

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quote:
Originally posted by Warrior Tortoise:


What makes me say fuck is the abomination of how the Karen people of Myanmar are being treated by the military, how oppressed Christians are in China, the political situation in North Korea, those who are victims of domestic violence etc etc


I find swearing a completely inadaquate response for these things.

I reserve my swearing to the petty irritations of life and indeed if ain't noticed it this what this thread is about.

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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