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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Kerygmania: Why (and how) (else) to read the bible
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
I used to read the bible when I moved in more, erm, I think you'd call them evangelical circles*. Passages tended to be dissected but the conclusion was always that God would make everything right for Christians.
Though I have no problem currently with listening to the Bible in church I've just started trying to read it again and I can hear all those voices over my shoulder (as well as the interjections from the other members of the group... Oh Yes Lord... He just wants to make everying really Great for us). So everything I read seems to say "Christians Are Saved Everyone Else Is Stuffed" and "Evangelism is Much More Important than Social Action - You've Got to Save them Before You Feed them".
Help! I'm on the point of giving up... having read a chapter of John every night for 2 weeks...
Should I read something else? Give up? Think beautiful, non-exclusive thoughts?
*No offence. your circles are probably nothing like mine were.
[ 19. June 2003, 18:13: Message edited by: Erin ]
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Don't give up. But find a way of reading it that doesnt have quite the same associations.
Try a very different version. I know the AV is the only truly God-inspired one, but "The Message" ( as an example ) can help you read it without some of the pre-conceptions that you have distracting you.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Not
Ship's Quack
# 2166
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Posted
Bless you chukovsky! I thought it was just me. Since becoming a happy heretic I find it very hard to find a way to read the bible that breaks the 'CU study group' mode.
It seems to get me either way. If I find something that does work for me, like imaginative contemplation, or reading big chunks as straight narrative, there is part of me going "yes, but it's not proper bible study". If I do read it in orderly chunks then I feel sucked back into having to find a neat lesson from every passage and a significance in every semi colon.
I don't know what the answer is, I suspect it's a matter of time... I'm Carolyn, I'm an ex evangelical, and I'm getting better every day...
(before wood and his flaming sword descend on me: I'm not having a go. That's what it was like for me; that's how it affected me. I have no problem with people who do fit into an evangelical set up, but I don't and can't. so please don't come and yell at me ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) )
Practically though, have you tried imaginative contemplation. Gerard Hughes gives a very good intro to it in 'God of suprises' and I've found it helpful - especially with John's gospel.
I'd be interested too though in any suggestions anyone else has - I get stuck a lot.
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Was CJ; now Not
Posts: 600 | From: the far, far West | Registered: Jan 2002
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CJ:
Practically though, have you tried imaginative contemplation. Gerard Hughes gives a very good intro to it in 'God of suprises' and I've found it helpful - especially with John's gospel.
I'd be interested too though in any suggestions anyone else has - I get stuck a lot.
What!! Deep intake of breath.... Imaginative contemplation!? ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) ![[Wink]](wink.gif) Begone, thou....(Sorry I just had a go at the Biblical curse generator.
Seriously though - Imaginative contemplation brought the Bible alive for me. Best thing I ever did. Give it a go,and ignore those little voices!
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Amanuensis
Idler
# 1555
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Posted
Sometimes I just read it. Don't try get to "get something" from it. See what comes, and if nothing does, don't worry.
Also, would it be fair to say you are a bit scared that those old bugbears might turn out be what the Bible is really saying after all? Not saying that they are, but perhaps you need to work that one through?
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What's new?
Posts: 547 | From: Cornwall | Registered: Oct 2001
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Not
Ship's Quack
# 2166
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanuensis:
Also, would it be fair to say you are a bit scared that those old bugbears might turn out be what the Bible is really saying after all? Not saying that they are, but perhaps you need to work that one through?
Don't think so. They may well be what the bible is saying - I just don't think they're what God is necessarily saying. I've been 'working this one through' for quite a while now.
Not sure if you meant me or chukovsky here actually - sorry if it wasn't me
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Was CJ; now Not
Posts: 600 | From: the far, far West | Registered: Jan 2002
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Passages tended to be dissected but the conclusion was always that God would make everything right for Christians.
What version where they using? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) Trying reading all of the prhophets and see what happened to Israel when they weren't doing Gods will...
and Mat 20: "Foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head"
.....that's supposed to mean Chrstians are going to be all right. IMHO only in the very long term (eternal view) is that gauranteed.
quote:
"Evangelism is Much More Important than Social Action - You've Got to Save them Before You Feed them".
May I recommend that you try reading some Ronald J Sider ("Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger" and "Evangelism and Social Action") It's not the bible but has some references. John Stott has written a few weighty tomes as well. I'm affraid I have never unpacked mine since we moved so I don't have the ISBN numbers. You could also try menno.org.uk (Woodgreen Community Church)for more references. Tearfund also keep a few titles in their bookshop.
Hope this helps. ![[Heart]](graemlins/heartpump.gif)
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
Posts: 1085 | Registered: Feb 2002
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MadFarmer
Shipmate
# 2940
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Posted
It just takes time. You might need a sabbatical from Bible reading if only to clear your head.
Here's what I did:
I began by just trying to read the Bible and shut out the evangelical voices. But that didn't work, because my reasons for reading it were evnagelical as well- I was reading it as a manual or as a list of facts.
I began reading works by Christians I admired - commentaries and studies and such. I read a lot of Thomas Merton, for example. Then I branched out- I beagn to read literary commentaries on the Bible (like Jack Miles's God: A Biography) which don't purport to discuss the Bible as a religious document at all, but rather as literature.
The Bible is not a manual or list of facts. It is a text you must wrestle with, and one that makes little sense at all to read unless you're actively trying to live our Christ's teaching. Nowadays I read one way when I'm in prayer - I'm reading with connection to God in mind, and another way when I'm readig for contemplation. I don't look for answers, but rather I read and let the words sit there and sort of dwell in me. Then somtimes I do a serious study and look up words and compare passages. It depends.
I don't think you need to worry about being "wrong" though. We know only in part down here. Don't be afraid to be wrong- certainty is an idol. I know all of my theories and theologies will dissappear in the reality of God, so I do my best and am unafraid to let go of an idea if it proves to be wrong or bad.
good luck.
-le
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Posts: 537 | From: Yellow Springs, OH, USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
CJ - don't worry. I know that Wood ( and me ) has no problems with those who have found evangelicalism doesn't work for them. We both have a serious problem when people then say it is rubbish/dangerous/un-academically acceptable/Un-anglican or suchlike. Which you are not doing.
But don't stop reading it. Or rather, don't stop engaging with it, if "reading" implies a sort of study that you need to break away from. DOn't reject the good parts of your heritage for the bad ones, rather find ways ( as have been suggested ) to work with the stories, the texts.
One way I found helpful was getting those "Bible stories to colour" books, and colouring them in. It is a means of engaging with a story that involves few if any words.
You may not want to admit it publically though ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I admit to buying an icon sticker book once! ![[Embarrassed]](redface.gif)
and a celtic coloring book !
those good news bibles with the little stick people were also rather good for colouring in !
welcome to the 'I'm just a great big kiddie, but isn't it fun' club............
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
what a very helpful bunch of people.
I listened to the whole of Walter Wangerin's version of the Bible (I think The Book of God) and that was SO helpful. I think I will try the Message. Also commentaries/writings that aren't quite so dissecting. When I have access to a bookshop!
Like CJ, I don't think God's saying what the voices from the inductive bible study groups are saying - I'm not particularly afraid of that - they just keep butting in.
I have read quite a lot of stuff and am fairly well informed generally about injustice so don't really need any revision... but the voices still intrude!
I think I'll look into those colouring books too...
Am I allowed to ignore bits I find hard and only read the rest of it?
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
Am I allowed to ignore bits I find hard and only read the rest of it?
Um, yes. You are an adult, you can choose what you want to read, and what you want to avoid. I wouldn't suggest that you put the hard bits on an ignore list for the rest of eternity. But a bit of avoidance for a few months/years should be okay. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Something that I rather liked was the Bible written in tabloid headings. It got me thinking about the big picture.
Perhaps reading a devotional book based on a passage might be helpful. Something that isn't Bible study, but more Bible thinking... Talk to the staff in your local Christian bookshop.
bb
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
FYI, there is another How to Read the Bible thread in Purgatory.
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Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Oh Yes Lord... He just wants to make everying really Great for us).
One antidote to this attitude would be to read Acts and notice what actually happened to the early Christians.
You might keep score of all the bad things that happened. How many times was Paul thrown in prison, beaten, and shipwrecked. Notice what happened to Stephen. I know Peter was imprisoned at least once.
Jesus warned the disciples about this in Matthew 10:17.
And be on your guard, for men will hand you over to their coursts, they will flog you in the synagogues,...
If the disciples didn't get an easy ride, what makes people nowadays think they're entitled to one.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Amanuensis
Idler
# 1555
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CJ:
Not sure if you meant me or chukovsky here actually - sorry if it wasn't me
I meant Chukovsky. But that's ok - I don't mind who corrects me.
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Posts: 547 | From: Cornwall | Registered: Oct 2001
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Stopped Diapason
Apprentice
# 3068
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Posted
One thing I've done with the Bible a couple of times is to learn and tell a story. I went to a seminar about biblical storytelling by an American (name forgotten) who taught us the process of internalizing a story.
You read it and read it again but then start to imagine the story along with reading the words. It's a different sort of thing to simply learning the story by heart. After putting in quite a lot of effort, the story is learned and is real and alive in the storytellers head.
I found that reading the bible this way not only meant that I learned a couple of passages of scripture better than I have ever learned scripture before but that I began to see some deeper meanings and feelings in the passages. eg, there is a huge amount of urgency in the way Mark starts his Gospel. The Kingdom is HERE, NOW, GET EXCITED really sprung out for me in a way that it hadn't before.
There's loads of storytelling sites and resources on the web. Worth checking a few out, possibly. Maybe even set a target for storytelling a passage as a reading in your church sometime.
Posts: 32 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Jul 2002
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clare
Contributing Editor
# 17
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Posted
Can identify a lot with what CJ and chukovsky
are saying. I must admit, the (only?) times I get really stuck in are when I'm preparing something, be that a service or a a youth group or a meditation/prayer walk for the st sims w/end.
Concordances are good, if you like a more random/post-modern/academic (delete as appropriate) approach. When i was sorting out the meditaion walk i was looking through for passages I could associate with what was around us in the Welsh countryside. Some sprung to mind imediately - Zacceus up the tree, Peter being called the rock, but i was also interested in less obvious connections. In looking through the concordance at words such as stream, plants, hills, path etc and then dipping into the bible it really helped me be interested in it again! Especially good for getting into the OT.
I found some great passages in Deutronomery, a book i would never have considered reading. Maybe for me (and anyone else who grew up in sunday school and is reasonably familiar with the main stories in the bible) it would be a good idea to try and branch out and read some bits that would be new to me. Then at least I might be surprised. Can anyone recommend a more obsucure bit of the bible that might be tasty?
clare
Posts: 2317 | From: edge of the peak district | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Why not do some play acting with it.
Like look at Genesis 13 on and imagine your a family counsellor for the dysfunctional family in the story. Do not skip the bits you are unfamiliar with they give vital clues.
You can do that again with the Davidic line if you use the books of Sammuel. Or try being a journalist investigating the political influence of Bathsheba.
Jengie
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
I would second reading the books of Samuel.
Most of use will know the major stories from that period, but the whole thing about the time of the judges and the desire for a king is often overlooked.
I was reading them in prep. for a youth group study on Samuel, Saul and David and got rather engrossed.
I would also recommend the 'internalising stories' thing. It is a fantastic way of telling stories to young children, or for using as an alternative to a straight Bible reading.
bb
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
For something completely different, try Tobit in the Apocrypha.
One of my Bible study groups is reading it this summer. It's a nice cosy story about God taking care of those who are faithful to him.
Moo
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Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
Is the Tobit story the one in Miss Garnet's Angel?
Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
Is the Tobit story the one in Miss Garnet's Angel?
I've never read Miss Garnet's Angel, but someone told me it was.
Moo
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Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Poet_of_Gold
Shipmate
# 2071
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Posted
Try opening at random, and reading only one or two verses at a time. Sometimes God speaks in the small things, in the tiny voices, in the quietness of a willing heart that is listening.
Try reading the International Children's Bible. It's a wonderful translation, and makes certain indistinct passages crystal clear, and also eliminates arguments over the meanings of words in the older translations. I can remember petty arguments by Christians over the King James Bible when neither one understood that in Greek their meanings were as far off base as they could be. You can't take an English word and bend it if the new fractured meaning is far away from what the Greek text writer intended. (Sheesh!)
Posts: 204 | From: USA | Registered: Dec 2001
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JohnW
Shipmate
# 135
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Posted
Try an easy read like the GNB, it worked for me.
Moo suggested reading Acts, no way, if you read Pauls letters,you'll see a conflict between what they say & what Acts says.
To start on a Gospel, try Mark, no mystery, some would say it's naive, but thats its charm. It's not trying to prove a point except that verse one says," This is the good news about Jesus Christ the son of God. Enjoy.
PS; The AV is less accurate in it's translation than the GNB or the latest Bibles.
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" Can't we agree to differ?"
Posts: 271 | From: Audenshaw, Manchester. | Registered: May 2001
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
Sadly it is the GNB that I had been reading and getting so distressed over, probably because it was the same translation that I had when I was being bible-bashed all those years ago.
But happily I'm now back in the same country - nay, the same flat - as my nice copy of Mark for Everyone.
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Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
The Unvarnished New Testament by Andy Gauss is pretty good. It is a completely new transplation. He approached it as a translation exercise and ignored theology/doctrine, and just translated it in the most 'straightforward' way.
Tis very readable.
bb
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Spong
Ship's coffee grinder
# 1518
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Posted
A brief aside on 'ignoring the bits I don't like' - the Into the Light edition of the CEV prints the boring bits in smaller type... I know that wasn't quite what the comment meant, but I find it helpful!
It's also one of the translations recommended if you're going to do storytelling - I tried this once and also found it fascinating but haven't taken it further. This thread makes me think I should.
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Spong
The needs of our neighbours are the needs of the whole human family. Let's respond just as we do when our immediate family is in need or trouble. Rowan Williams
Posts: 2173 | From: South-East UK | Registered: Oct 2001
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Stopped Diapason
Apprentice
# 3068
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Posted
When I started looking at storytelling I was also after a new Bible so I spent an hour or so looking through some of the different translations to find out which I prefered. I did like the CEV 'Into the Light' a lot. But in the end, I plumped for the New Revised Standard Version (also the one the CofE has chosen for it's new lectionary btw) because it has an adult tone, reads very well, and uses inclusive language. When I have used the NRSV for storytelling, I have been very comfortable with the wording, style and tone of it. IMHO, the NRSV is well worth picking up if you're shopping for a new translation.
Posts: 32 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Jul 2002
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
chukovsky, I am eager to know what you have been reading, and how it is going. Fancy letting us know?
bb
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
And now for something completely different...
You might try Clarence Jordan's "Cotton Patch" version. He didn't do the whole Bible, just a couple Gospels and some Epistles. It's a paraphrase in which he relocates the action to the American South. Jerusalem becomes Atlanta, the Pharisees become the Southern Baptists, and so on. Very entertaining and can make you think!
Posts: 1157 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jonm
Shipmate
# 1246
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Posted
The Tom Wright ``X for everyone'' where X will eventually be every book of the NT are a nice read if you want something devotional-with-a-bit-of-scholarship, although sometimes a bit conservative for my taste. (I'm doing a daily reading from it in place of the set reading in Celebrating Common Prayer, the office I use)
Posts: 264 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2001
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Espada_
Apprentice
# 3150
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Posted
Can we distinguish between evangelicalism and accademic studies of the Bible, I am evangelical and am perfectly capable of reading the Bible without disecting every sentence. I read the Bible remembering that it is a translation and so accept that a comma or semi-colon may be out of place. I still regard the Bible as the authorative word of God and accept it as being true (except where stated otherwise).
Mark
Posts: 8 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnW:
Moo suggested reading Acts, no way, if you read Pauls letters,you'll see a conflict between what they say & what Acts says.
I agree that there are some discrepancies between Acts and Paul's letters. I do not, however, see why Acts should not be read before Paul's letters.
Moo
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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JohnW
Shipmate
# 135
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Posted
Sorry Moo, Acts is not my favourite book & I was perhaps speaking out of prejudice. I find the stories contrived to fit the writers picture of the way things happened in the early church.
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" Can't we agree to differ?"
Posts: 271 | From: Audenshaw, Manchester. | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnW:
I find the stories contrived to fit the writers picture of the way things happened in the early church.
Does this include the passages with the pronoun 'we'?
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Equinas
Shipmate
# 2907
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Posted
It's been a long time since I've wandered much outside of Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and the Gospel of John. Occasional forays into Ruth and Esther, but not much else. Being somewhat of a depressive, I find those books don't push my triggers as much (which makes Ecclesiastes an interesting choice). Lately, I'm doing good if I open a devotional book occasionally, but have also made some short-lived attempts at following an online lectionary.
(Maybe I should go read the bits about King David and reassure myself that even Psalm writers screw up royally from time to time.)
Perhaps this should be another thread, but what passages or books of the bible do you all find the most uplifting or encouraging, personally?
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Linda
Posts: 567 | From: Deep South, USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JohnW:
Moo suggested reading Acts, no way, if you read Pauls letters,you'll see a conflict between what they say & what Acts says.
I was going to leave this, but as Moo brought it up again ....
Actually, I would take issue at most of what you posted, but this is either naive or silly. They are different, in that they have a different perspective on the events. Pauls letters were occasional documents, intended for the various churches he visited. Acts was the second part of a book explaining and detailing the events of some 50 years.
But this is a different thread. If you want to repost as a new thread, I will respond there.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Can I third the motion to read Samuel?
Read it as a story. A soap opera. A tragedy. Imagine it as a film. Imagine the heroes and villans. Try and keep track of the characters. (Getting Abner and Joan sorted out is pretty important)
Try and find a version that is printed as connected prose. Certainly in one column across the page. Ideally without little verse numbers at all.
Read both "books" (they are really one book cut in two) and the first few chapters of Kings as well, up till Davids death. If that seems like too much skip the bits about Philistines and David and Goliath cos you probably already know that - although I bet most people remember it as a set of 3 or 4 disconnected stories and would be surprised at both what else is there and
Ideally in one sitting - it isn't that long. I cried when Absalom died. David didn't want to be king any more.
And at the end of it you know exactly what kind of a ****** Joab was.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Totally conflicting advice from my own previous paragraph - read with a notebook in hand in order to find out some specific thing. It works for us intellectuals with withdrawl symptoms.
Actually not totally conflicting, because the thing to do is read big chunks. Break yourself of the habit of reading small pieces, because that is maybe causing you to fall into the "preaching on the text" style of exegesis. This chapter, this paragraph, this word, this verse, this word must have a meaning for ME, NOW, a message from GOD to ME and I'm not going to give up till I know what it means! And, by your own account, "what it means" ends up being what some preacher or CU leader said it meant when you did that text way back when.
That may be a good way to start preparing for a sermon but it is a silly way to start reading a book.
No-one picks up a novel that starts, say, "It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife" and then spends the next half hour striving in the spirit to find what that text means for her (*) They read on and find out the rest of the story.
One or two chapters just isn't enough. Read big chunks. Read fast. Skim, get the gist, skip read.
Example of what I meant by reading to find something out. Someone once said "the Old Testament can't be history because they ride horses and camels and they didn't in those days"
I didn't like this (being a Slimy Literalist Intellectual Calvinist) so one morning I picked up the OT and skimmed from Genesis to Chronicles, just looking for mention of horses, camels and the like. Only takes an hour or so if you just glance at each page and move on if it obviously has nothing about gee-gees in it.
It turns out that all the early mentions of horses are chariot horses. Though there might be a few wild horses in the Pentateuch. When people ride - whch, on the whole, they don't - they ride donkeys or mules. Even Absalom.
Then, all of a sudden, the Syrian cavalry ride in. (And trample Jezebel's body IIRC)
There is actually a historical progression - there is explicit technological change. It would have been hard to notice that without reading it fast and skipping.
Oh, and there are camels as well - but only for long journeys across the desert.
(*) actually that text means they should be looking for us single blokes and trying to marry us of course.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
Why not just follow a simple lectionary i.e the one the C of E or R.C. church produce. Use it alone or with some form of personal prayer or daily office. The readings usually follow a pattern, but are short and not likely to bog you down.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Spong
Ship's coffee grinder
# 1518
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Break yourself of the habit of reading small pieces, because that is maybe causing you to fall into the "preaching on the text" style of exegesis. ...
That may be a good way to start preparing for a sermon but it is a silly way to start reading a book.
I quite agree. But then why do we read little bits in church? And why do those of us who preach force our congregations to listen to us expounding on these little fragments rather than just letting them hear the stories that could shape their lives? Didn't Justin Martyr say that early 2nd century Christians got together and listened to (in effect) Scripture being read 'for as long as we are able'?
Makes ya fink dunnit...
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Spong
The needs of our neighbours are the needs of the whole human family. Let's respond just as we do when our immediate family is in need or trouble. Rowan Williams
Posts: 2173 | From: South-East UK | Registered: Oct 2001
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chukovsky
Ship's toddler
# 116
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Posted
Me again.
I actually find the "little bits" read in church a bit more helpful than the "try to read it all and get through it" e.g. Bible in a Year type approach.
I'm back on my Mark for Everyone at the moment and it's so much better than when I was trying to read the whole Gospel of John. But I think I'm going to get hold of a copy of The Message next.
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This space left intentionally blank. Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.
Posts: 6842 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001
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UnShaggy
UnSurly shipmate
# 82
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Posted
I like the "...for Everyone" series too. Just finished Paul (Galatians and 1 & 2 Thessalonians) and about to start Part 1 of Matthew.
You'll be pleased to know that John's gospel (2 parts) is due to be published in October chukovsky. The prison letters are also due then - start saving now.
Cheers
UnS
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We are like sailors who on the open sea must reconstruct their ship but are never able to start afresh from the bottom. Otto Neurath
Posts: 462 | From: That's me in the corner | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
Me again.
I actually find the "little bits" read in church a bit more helpful than the "try to read it all and get through it" e.g. Bible in a Year type approach.
.
The Bible in a Year is more or less what I meant by "little bits". I'm suggesting the Bible in a Week
Not every word of course. But skip-read, miss out the bits you don't want to read.
And probably not the whole Bible either. But like we said, sit down and read Samuel all through just as you might read any other book.
Or Luke&Acts. It isn't actually that long - an hour or two perhaps.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Glenn Oldham
Shipmate
# 47
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
I used to read the bible when I moved in more, erm, I think you'd call them evangelical circles ... I've just started trying to read it again and I can hear all those voices over my shoulder ... Should I read something else? Give up? Think beautiful, non-exclusive thoughts?
Yes, this is a problem that I have had too. It will get better with time!
It may sound an odd suggestion but you could try arguing with what you read. The advantages of this approach are - that it is an approach that is almost unheard of in evangelical circles and so may shock the old voices into silence; and
- it can help you to work at what you really think, here and now, about things, which is always a good way to start thinking about an issue (if not always the place to end!).
I have found the following three short books on the bible (none are conservative evangelical) have helped a great deal: - The Bible: a very short introduction by John Riches (Oxford 2000)
- An Introduction to the Bible by J. W. Rogerson (Penguin 1999)
- What is the Bible? by John Barton (SPCK 1997 edition)
They are a remarkably good trio of books and complement and enhance each other brilliantly and all taught me things I had never heard or thought about in evangelical circles.
Incidentally the book by Riches is part of the thoroughly superb Oxford University press series of Very Short Introductions to all sorts of subjects. (The one on the Koran is very good too).
Glenn
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This entire doctrine is worthless except as a subject of dispute. (G. C. Lichtenberg 1742-1799 Aphorism 60 in notebook J of The Waste Books)
Posts: 910 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2001
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Second Mouse
Citizen of Grand Fenwick
# 2793
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Posted
Chukovsky, Try borrowing a three year old, one who's going through the "Why?" stage with a vengeance, and read them some bible stories. I've been doing this with my own little boy quite a lot recently. (I could rent him out to you at a reasonable hourly rate... ) He's enjoyed it, and I've found it really helpful too.
The challenge of putting idea's into words that make sense to him, and answering all his questions, has really made me think about what I think the stories mean, and why God acts in the way it does.
SM
Posts: 1254 | From: West Yorkshire | Registered: May 2002
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
A thought
If you're feeling brave, try reading the bible in a different language. As an example, it was whilst reading my daughter's french version that I found a new shade of meaning in the opening verse of Psalm 40.
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Miffy:
A thought
If you're feeling brave, try reading the bible in a different language. As an example, it was whilst reading my daughter's french version that I found a new shade of meaning in the opening verse of Psalm 40.
That's one of the reasons I like reading the New Testament in the original Greek. I go quite slowly, so the meaning has time to sink in.
I also have the psalms in Scots, and that goes slowly too. The translation has a bluntness that helps drive home the meaning. Here is the first verse of Psalm 22.
My God, my God, whatfor hae ye mislippen'd me? Sae far are ye frae helpin me, and the words o' my waefu' wailin.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Ret
Apprentice
# 3043
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Posted
I have been going to Bible studies for a year at university chaplaincy. Two a week they almost invariably ended in general theological discussion. This was very interesting at first 'cos I'd never been to anything similar. However, after a while this got fraustrating because we only read a short passage each time, so it was very slow - 30 hour long bible studies and we still haven't finished Johns gospel.
Now, during the holidays, I decided I would read the old testament. I would read it fast, and I wouldn't worry too much about whether I had understood anything by it. I have got from the start of Genesis to Psalm 126. While I was reading it I felt it was simply a matter of trusting God to tell me anything and not thinking too hard.
I feel I may really have gone from one extreme to the other, however I feel that having read it like this, when I come to study these books in the future, they will be more familiar and I will have some idea of the context.
In all of this I've used the New International Readers Version - it's only usually used as a Childrens version, but
quote:
Jesus said, "What I'm about to tell you is true. You need to change and become like little children. If you don't, you will never enter the kingdon of heaven"
Matthew 18:3, NIrV
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Nick
Posts: 4 | From: Lancaster/Haywards Heath | Registered: Jul 2002
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