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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Kerygmania: The Sixth Day (Gen 1:26-31)
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
(OK, I admit it - I'm starting this thread here rather than Purgatory because I don't want to have to host another Creationism linked thread. So sue me ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) . Besides, it's linked to a sort of tangent on the NIV translation thread)
Here's the more revelant parts of the text (sorry, from the NIV) quote:
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
... And it was so.
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.
Followed, of course, by the seventh day where God takes of his work gloves, puts his feet up, pours himself a cup of tea and takes a well deserved rest.
My hypothesis is that we're still in the 6th day. That human evolution, and especially the Christ event, are all part of the process whereby God is creating human beings in his image. When Christ comes again to claim his own there will not be a new Heaven and Earth, so much as a completion of the creation of this Heaven and Earth - finally everything that was previously just "good" will finally be "very good" and God and his creation (including humanity finally in his image) will be able to rest.
Comments? Is this barking? When I mentioned this in passing in a Purgatory thread a while back Fr Gregory linked to some early fathers expressing similar ideas - anyone remember or know what they said?
Alan
[Typo corrected by Moo}
[ 19. June 2003, 18:12: Message edited by: Erin ]
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I rather think Augustine thought we were still in the 6th day - and in the 7th as well.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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starrina
The rose warrior
# 3549
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Posted
OOh I like this idea. It is deep. Seven is the Jewish number symbolising totality and perfection so it would be an excellent way of expressing the progression of the world's continuing growth towards the return of Christ.
Might it not also contribute towards the problem of evil discussion? (Does this count as a tangent?)
I was just thinking that if the world is still in the process of being completed then it would account for apparent "flaws" in the world.
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Smudgie
Ship's Barnacle
# 2716
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Posted
Alan, what a mind-boggling idea. I am obviously not a great scientist or biblical scholar,(and possibly that's no bad thing ) but you have given me real food for thought with this one as it really seems to strike a chord on first reading your ideas.
Not having a fundamentalist outlook on the Creation story personally, I have always viewed it as amazing how this ties in with scientific findings as long as the timescale is taken from the basis of eternity rather than a limited human-style week. The idea of being in the sixth day would certainly fit in with that.
Hmmm..... I shall ponder some more.
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Sean D
Cheery barman
# 2271
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Posted
I often wonder if in several places the writer of the story is deliberately being playful and open-ended. For example, several times he is blatantly taking the mick out of the Babylonian creation epic, e.g. where the sun and moon were worshipped as gods (here they are made by God), and various other things which frankly I forget.
So, my response to your question Alan is "...sure, why not?!" on the basis that I don't think the writer intended to leave us with a definite and simple sense of what the text means but rather offer us a lens through which we can view our own situation (or rather, through which early post-exilic Israel could view their situ but you get my point). Hence, you are using it as a lense in a certain way. Others may view it slightly differently. I think the writer would say, "Oh good, at least they're thinking about it!"
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http://www.stmellitus.org/
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Sean D
Cheery barman
# 2271
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Posted
Ahem. "Lens", even. Comedy definitions of what a "lense" could be on a postcard to my PM box.
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
Agreeing with all that has been said. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I would add that I am quite sure that the days repeat themselves endlessly and spiritually in the lives of all of us. They are a metaphor for every sort of creation imaginable - whether it is the creation of being born again, or the creation of bringing peace to this planet.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Amanuensis
Idler
# 1555
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Posted
Fascinating idea.
A couple of "buts" from the New testament. 1) the idea of God's "rest" in Hebrews seems to imply that we are still in the seventh day. I know someone already said that we are in both, but does that make sense?
2) You said that there won't be a "new" heaven and earth. I don't know how this squares with the end of Revelation, which seems to be written with the beginning of Genesis in mind.
I like the idea though. I think that God's creative activity is definitely at work in human history. Genesis itself bears this out; Adam's descendants start building cities.
[code fixed by Moo]
[ 07. March 2003, 00:23: Message edited by: Moo ]
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanuensis:
You said that there won't be a "new" heaven and earth. I don't know how this squares with the end of Revelation, which seems to be written with the beginning of Genesis in mind.
The end of Revelation seems to me to describe the seventh day. ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
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SteveTom
Contributing Editor
# 23
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Posted
My own pet theory is that both the 6th and 7th days come round once a week.
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I've heard a Jewish theory that we're still in the 6th day. Maybe from Rabbi Harold Kushner? (Author--"When bad things happen to good people") And that, now that *we're* around, we're supposed to help.
Which means things are still messy. Which sounds a lot like God's Final Message from the Hitchhiker's Guide books--"We apologize for the inconvenience"!
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
Originally Posted by Sean D
"For example, several times he is blatantly taking the mick out of the Babylonian creation epic, e.g. where the sun and moon were worshipped as gods (here they are made by God), and various other things which frankly I forget".
That would be the Atrakhasis, Epic, the Sumerian Creation Epic, The Sumerian poem " Enki and Ninmakh" and several other ancient near easten myths including an incomplete one written by a monk of the God Set. Incidentally, Set is used as a name for the Devil in some ancient documents. However, the main point is good. The Redactor/s of Gen 1-11 were, essentially, ripping the piss out of contempoary myth by attempting to show that they're God (Yahweh/Elohim) was superior to the gods worshipped by others at that time.
Alan, the idea that the world is still being created remeinds me a bit of Process Theology (see Alfred North Whitehead, David Ray Griffin and, to an extent, Teilhard De Chardin). I find those people interesting although I think they have a weak view of sin. Is process thought what you were referring to? Yes, there have definately been people who have proposed the six day thing already.
Cheers
Father Brown
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Helpful thoughts, thank you all who've replied. A few things to catch up on, sorry I probably should have commented on them earlier.
quote:
Originally posted by Amanuensis:
1) the idea of God's "rest" in Hebrews seems to imply that we are still in the seventh day.
I'm not sure it does imply we're still in the 7th day - though it certainly links the promised rest for Gods people with the 7th day.
quote:
I know someone already said that we are in both, but does that make sense?
I suppose if you take the 7 days as being somehow directly related to actual periods of time then it might not make sense. However, if you take them more symbolically why not? After all we believe God reigns yet pray "your Kingdom come", or to take the Hebrews passage that we are in Gods rest yet still to enter it.
quote:
You said that there won't be a "new" heaven and earth. I don't know how this squares with the end of Revelation, which seems to be written with the beginning of Genesis in mind.
I tend to think that the end of Revelation has more in common with Isaiah 65, but both do refer back to the original creation. What I was trying to get at was that the completion of the process of Creation will be so different from the current ordering of creation that it will be as though it is new. But, by saying it's the completion of the current universe I see the continuity as well as the novelty.
quote:
Originally posted by Father Brown:
Alan, the idea that the world is still being created remeinds me a bit of Process Theology (see Alfred North Whitehead, David Ray Griffin and, to an extent, Teilhard De Chardin). I find those people interesting although I think they have a weak view of sin. Is process thought what you were referring to? Yes, there have definately been people who have proposed the six day thing already.
I wasn't thinking of process theology as such, to be honest I've never really got to grips with Process Theology so can't really comment on the similarity or otherwise of my thoughts. Though I do believe God does work through processes that, without the eye of faith, are described by purely materialistic means (ie: science) - see this page on my website.
I've got some De Chardin on my bookshelf, though last time I tried to read it I found it a bit too heavy going. Perhaps it's time to try again.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
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