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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: New Hampshire gay bishop
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Just for the record, I have sent an e-mail to Simon promising money, liquor, sexual favors, or anything else I need to do to get this thread off the home page.
I don't know if it'll help, but I'll throw in more of all of those things.
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
HOSTING
Welcome aboard, Norm. Since you are new here, let me give you a few helpful pointers.
Please be sure to read the Purgatory guidelines and the Ship's 10 Commandments. If you have any questions, check the FAQs or feel free to ask.
General discussion of the rights or wrongs of homosexuality belongs on theHomosexuality and Christianity thread on the Dead Horses board. Please take the time to read the positions already posted on that thread. You will find that Christians hold many different opinions on this subject, many of them not agreeing with yours.
If you have any questions, please ask any one of the hosts.
scot
Purgatory Host
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
Oh, goody. Simon, I will add my offerings to Erin's and Scot's. Perhaps a full-monty style tap dance routine?
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Simon
Editor
# 1
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Posted
OK, the three of you... get into the costumes for the dance routine.
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Eternal memory
Posts: 3787 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Halle-fuckin'-lujah.
I have to say that bar has been raised for Goddard. He has never managed to attract this many high quality nutters.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
Just in time to save the remnants of my sanity! <tap dances>
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271
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Posted
I suggest that people's initial posts be immediately deleted, giving them a chance to do better. I know mine was pretty stupid.
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No longer the Bishop of Durham
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If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 5259 | From: Deep in the American desert | Registered: Sep 2002
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Psyduck
Ship's vacant look
# 2270
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Posted
quote:
I suggest that people's initial posts be immediately deleted, giving them a chance to do better. I know mine was pretty stupid.
Well, I, for one, would have missed I Thessalonians if they'd deleted it. All those aerobatics...
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The opposite of faith is not doubt. The opposite of faith is certainty.
"Lle rhyfedd i falchedd fod/Yw teiau ar y tywod." (Ieuan Brydydd Hir)
Posts: 5433 | From: pOsTmOdErN dYsToPiA | Registered: Feb 2002
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Dear DOD
quote:
I second Erin's request that the link be taken off the front page.
I think she said Thread DOD ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
... and I third, fourth, fifth and sixth that. Haven't we got anything more to talk about? Shove it in Expired Equines, (hastily adds ... not telling a Host what to do). Good grief we'll get a second shot at it ![[Frown]](frown.gif) when Mainstream goes ballistic in the Autumn (Fall).
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
OK, the three of you... get into the costumes for the dance routine.
Tea (tap) for two, (tap tap) and two (tap) for tea. (tappity tappity tap)
(Yes, this is humiliating, but I'm just glad he didn't go for the sexual favors option.)
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
Just for Simon, the Teapot Dance, complete with tap, and bending and pouring from arm in teapot-like fashion:
I'm a little teapot, short and stout! (tap tap)
Here's my handle, here's my spout (tap-tappity tap).
When I get all steamed up, then I shout (tap):
Tip me over, pour me out! (extended tapping riff)
Scot, you're right, it is embarassing.
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
(Yes, this is humiliating, but I'm just glad he didn't go for the sexual favors option.)
Actually, Scot, ever since the accident, this is as close to sexual gratification as Simon's going to get.
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
I'm sure there are Tap Dancing chat rooms, and online personals ads, and naughty photo exchange clubs, too. You can find anything on the internet. I've seen ones devoted to clowns. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
David
taking his position in line and tapping to the tune of "Tea for Two" also, though it's not really his own... cup of tea... ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271
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Posted
Nobody near us, to see us, or hear us, no friends or relations on weekend vacations......
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No longer the Bishop of Durham
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If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 5259 | From: Deep in the American desert | Registered: Sep 2002
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Cardinal Pole Vault
Papal Bull
# 4193
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Posted
It's riddiculous! The Anglican Communion doesn't work like that! So, if a few evil-gelicals "suspend" the Americans, so what? The AC isn't really something you can be suspended from anyway...
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"Make tea, not war"
Posts: 986 | From: Insula Tiberina | Registered: Mar 2003
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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15
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Posted
Hmmmmm. Can we throw out a few African provinces for their stance on polygamy whilst we're at it?
And personally I'd throw out the Southern Cone for having a stupid name that sounds like a brand of ice cream.
Sweet Jesus, have mercy on us all.
[ 29. August 2003, 14:04: Message edited by: Dyfrig ]
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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt
Posts: 6917 | From: pob dydd Iau, am hanner dydd | Registered: Apr 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Pole Vault:
evil-gelicals
Name-calling is really not helpful. Our side needs to be better than this!
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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St. Punk the Pious
Biblical™ Punk
# 683
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Posted
Wow is this thread still going? I was going to say this must surely be the longest non-silly SOF thread in history . . . but then I read this page. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Thank you, Ruth. Without your intervention, I'll probably be called a sado-fundamentalist. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I'm not Anglican (although I find myself strangely attracted to high church Anglicanism), so maybe I should be quiet. But I have yet to hear a better solution than the one noted in the Telegraph article.
I'm still watching with interest, however.
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The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.
Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
A split may well occur, but I can't see how the conservatives will be the ones to remain in communion with Canterbury - particularly given the views of the present Archbishop.
He may be greatly concerned about unity, but his views are well known, and for all his natural allies to be in the 'other' communion is unlikely to happen.
However, the formation of Anglican 'Mainstream' suggests there is an alternative organisation waiting for the expected split ( which, if involving a moving out of conservatives, will be claimed for as the 'real' Anglican communion...)
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Cardinal Pole Vault
Papal Bull
# 4193
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Pole Vault:
evil-gelicals
Name-calling is really not helpful. Our side needs to be better than this!
Sorry
If you look at the Inclusive Church thread you'll see the subtle differences in evangelical related terminolgy developed by shipmates (nice evangelicals= evan-jelly-fish, bad ones= evil-gelicals).
I'm not against evangelicals [i]per se[i/] (I leave that to Mersey Mike ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ) In fact, some of my best friends are evangelicals...
Nevertheless, I am duly chastised and really do recognise that we have to be mature about this.
![[Embarrassed]](icon_redface.gif)
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"Make tea, not war"
Posts: 986 | From: Insula Tiberina | Registered: Mar 2003
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
However, the formation of Anglican 'Mainstream' suggests there is an alternative organisation waiting for the expected split ( which, if involving a moving out of conservatives, will be claimed for as the 'real' Anglican communion...)
Well -- while I will be saddened if they leave, if they do all leave under one banner, at least they may avoid splintering into twenty different directions.
I had (past tense, alas) a friend who is in one of the groups which broke away from ECUSA and I believe his group has some of the shrill and angry quality it does partly because it is so small, with so many similar groups around. (I don't attribute this shrillness to its theology, by the way, especially as I largely share the same beliefs.) Even when we were friends I wished that his group and the others which broke away had all been in one group -- that it might have been a healthier group, with more balance. He believed that since so many groups broke away, it gave too many people the chance to be bishops, and that too many people were eager for it, so there was much political jockeying for power within his own group as well as others. So if this one doesn't wind up with the same problems, even if I think it's a mistake to break away, I'll be glad that at least they'll avoid those extra problems if they all break away together.
I think being a tiny group which is convinced it knows the truth when everyone else doesn't -- even when this is correct -- is in terrible danger of spiritual pride, and being tiny just makes it worse. So I'd rather see a big breakaway group than a hundred little ones, at least for the sake of the people in them, all other things being equal.
David
still misses his friend, too
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
Lewis said it best in Screwtape Letters (remember that this is from the point of view of a devil named Screwtape):
quote:
Any small coterie, bound together by some interest which other men dislike or ignore, tends to develop inside itself a hothouse mutual admiration, and towards the outer world, a great deal of pride and hatred which is entertained without shame because the "Cause" is its sponsor and it is thought to be impersonal. Even when the little group exists originally for the Enemy's [God's] own purposes, this remains true. We want the Church to be small not only that fewer men may know the Enemy but also that those who do may acquire the uneasy intensity and the defensive self-rightousness of a secret society or a clique.
David
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Pole Vault:
If you look at the Inclusive Church thread you'll see the subtle differences in evangelical related terminolgy developed by shipmates (nice evangelicals= evan-jelly-fish, bad ones= evil-gelicals).
Ah. Hadn't read it.
It just reminded me of something Susan Russell (Executive Director of Claiming the Blessing) said when she spoke at my parish last fall. She was happy about Rowan Williams being the new archbishop, but said she couldn't wish or hope that he would impose his views on the Anglican Communion because she had of course not wanted George Carey to impose his views. This struck me as very fair and even a bit noble, and I think we should take that high a road. Not to say much fouler things than what you said haven't crossed my mind (and come out of my mouth) many times.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271
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Posted
Even though I couldn't be more pleased with the recent decisions, I am very sad at the (not unexpected) reactions, and apprehensive over what may happen next. I think Screwtape makes a good point.
As my ex-preacher father always used to say, there's no fight anywhere that can compare with a church fight.
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No longer the Bishop of Durham
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If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 5259 | From: Deep in the American desert | Registered: Sep 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
What does the "Anglican Communion" mean to me?
Not much, really.
My naval officer father, who was raised a Southern Baptist, once told me that one of the reasons he became an Episcopalian was that wherever he was in the world, he could go to an Anglican church and know what to expect.
This hasn't been the case for a good number of years.
My Anglican Communion is my parish church, the cathedral, and the churches in my diocese that I enjoy visiting on occasion. I get a little thrill of Episcopalian pride when a service is televised from the Cathedral of St. Peter & St. Paul in DC, like after 9/11. Or from Westminster Abbey, like Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother's, funeral.
To be frank, the only use I have for all the Anglicans in Nigeria is as a numerical weapon when I tell my Baptist acquaintances "There may be only two million Episcopalians in the USA, but there are "X" million Anglicans in the Anglican Communion."
Besides, we've got all the money.
I'm amazed at how ugly and angry this sounds. But that's the way I feel right now.
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
I agree with Sine.
I think the Anglican Communion is meaningless, and the sooner the Nigerians et al go their own way, the better. I'd prefer an agreed split, but I don't think that will happen, as they want to play martyr.
No doubt the parishes who join them from ECUSA etc will soon get irritated with their constant holding out of the begging bowl.
None of those provinces will get a penny out of me in future. Why should they want my money, after all ?
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Edward Green
Review Editor
# 46
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Posted
I don't think ECUSA will be expelled. But if they were I imagine it would split the Church of England, because many of us would feel unable to work in a church that had participated in such a move.
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blog//twitter//
linkedin
Posts: 4893 | Registered: May 2001
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
None of those provinces will get a penny out of me in future. Why should they want my money, after all ?
You believe that witholding money is a legitimate use of power if you disagree with the theology of a particular part of the Anglican communion?
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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spark.
Shipmate
# 4801
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Posted
MM - Isn't your giving a gift to God?
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Prayer? No it was far too serious for that.
Posts: 157 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2003
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The Black Labrador
Shipmate
# 3098
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
I agree with Sine.
I think the Anglican Communion is meaningless, and the sooner the Nigerians et al go their own way, the better. I'd prefer an agreed split, but I don't think that will happen, as they want to play martyr.
No doubt the parishes who join them from ECUSA etc will soon get irritated with their constant holding out of the begging bowl.
None of those provinces will get a penny out of me in future. Why should they want my money, after all ?
I daresay a lot of Western evangelicals would be happier subsidising Nigerian evangelicals than Western liberals!
What are you planning to do Mike - put your money into a special fund which only supports your local church or churches you approve of? In which case you won't object if evangelicals do likewise.
[ 01. September 2003, 11:17: Message edited by: Ian S ]
Posts: 629 | From: London | Registered: Jul 2002
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
Then I would rather give it to those who can be relied on not to use it to perpetrate that which I disgree with.
Integrity Uganda needs support, for example.
No, I don't object if evangelicals do likewise. I just don't think we should be in the same denomination, that's all.
The sooner this so-called Communion splits, the better.
[ 01. September 2003, 11:21: Message edited by: Merseymike ]
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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James Mc
Procrastinator
# 3414
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Posted
An extract from a news item in this morning's Electonic Telegraph - Rowan Williams on the coming emergency summit.
quote:
In an article for New Directions, a magazine for traditionalist clergy, he hints that he is prepared to see the creation of a Church-within-a-Church to allow liberals and traditionalists to co-exist.
Previously this has been ruled out as too radical.
Looks like a lifeboat is being prepared for the non-affirming types in the US province, or will it be the other way round, for the affirming types in the Anglican Communion?
Posts: 905 | From: London, UK | Registered: Oct 2002
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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Degs:
quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
None of those provinces will get a penny out of me in future. Why should they want my money, after all ?
You believe that witholding money is a legitimate use of power if you disagree with the theology of a particular part of the Anglican communion?
I seem to recall that was what some of the Oxford parishes threatebed to do if Jeffrey John were consecrated Bishop.
I know, I was making the point that withdrawal of money cuts both ways. You can't cry foul if evangelicals threaten to do it in one place and you support it in another
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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp
Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
I think it would make more sense - and lead to less bloddshed - if we didnt look on change as providing 'lifeboats' for anyone, but looked on it as a restructuring of governance in the Anglican Communion.
It all seems a bit desperate to me ; a vain attempt to hold together that which has no logical affiliation.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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spark.
Shipmate
# 4801
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Posted
MM - How does your faith benefit from a split of the anglican church.
Why do we spend so long looking at others (when we all have enough logs and splinters of our own)
Can someone tell me how we glorify god in any of this.
Like him or not we could do with a "Campbell" job on this saying "we may disagree with each other on many things but look at what we do agree on". Having said that I get the there is so little that the wider church can agree on that there is nothing to spin.
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Prayer? No it was far too serious for that.
Posts: 157 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2003
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
Being in a denomination where I would be fully accepted and my partnership recognised, would certainly help my own faltering faith - I'm closer to thinking that Christianity really does have nothing to offer than I have been for years.Or at least the varieties on offer through the churches.
I don't think I'm the only one who feels like this, and a split may just provide the sort of accepting space I would like to see.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Aleuts are loathe to enter such discussions, given our native reluctance to do focus on anything other than regular sustenance, so difficult to obtain out of walrus-hunting season, but I think there are three points which might bear reflection.
I. Anglicans have an extraordinary history of directing funds to the flavours they favour. SPG vs. CMS is perhaps the best-known, but there are quite literally hundreds of societies and trusts which were established (mainly since the 1820s) to support particular schools of opinion. C of E shipmates are well aware of the existence of the trusts which bought rights of presentation to ensure that their kind of cleric got the parish. ECUSAns have long made certain that different kinds of seminary got their bucks (as in Canada: Trinity College vs Wycliffe, etc).
None of this is new and I keep on hearing the voice of the Prefect of Police in Casablanca crying how shocked, shocked, he was to find gambling on the premises.
If (for example), the Nigerian Church's acts result in a situation where ECUSA withdraws its funding, then they have both made choices with real impacts, and for which the players will someday face Judgement. Of course, we will all be facing Judgement for how we've used that which was given to us, but that's another thread.
II. Some of the different points of view here have to do with how we view the Anglican Church. Some shipmates evidently feel that we are a denomination, happily without any worldwide structure/ sadly without any worldwide structure. Others see Anglican churches as bits of the Catholic Church severed from the rest by history (cf. ++Lord Ramsey's observations on the radical provisionality of Anglicanism). How we see the Anglican Church might determine how we see this issue.
III. From its beginnings as an independent church and its Scots-based understanding of the collegial nature of the episcopate, ECUSA has a longstanding procedure of assessing local elections of bishops. Dioceses' decisions have always been up for judging and I am puzzled that anyone takes the Umbrage of Surprise (see I, above, for gambling on the premises). In Canada, the bishops of each province can raise objections on the election of a bishop, and other churches have similar provisions.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
The sooner this so-called Communion splits, the better.
The door's open, who's stopping you leaving?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
None of this is new
Great post, oh Aleutian One.
I too am shocked, SHOCKED to find such things going on.
And strangely warmed by Mike's rather charming depiction of "Anglican Mainstream" as an alternate denomination in waiting, when it is just abnother "campaign" organised around one or two blokes with some time on their hands, a website, and a mailing list, of a sort that someone or other starts every week, and no more an alternate Anglicanism than this message board is.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
Why should I, or anyone else 'leave' , Ken ? I do not think that is the answer. If we cannot live together then we need to accept that and either create structures to enable co-existence without true communion, or mutually agreed separate structures.
If you have been listening to the conservative primates recently, you would not be as naive about the aims of Anglican Mainstream.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Merseymike:
Why should I, or anyone else 'leave' , Ken ?
Well you said you wanted a split so you must want someone to leave.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Edward Green
Review Editor
# 46
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Posted
I have major problems with the Anglican Communion. If we see the Church of England as always the Catholic Church in England, only a bit arsey and always falling out with the rest of the Tradition (think Pelagius, Celtic Church, Henry VIII etc..) then why do we have outposts in other countries? Personally I think ties with the CSI and the Church of Sweden and the European Old Catholics are a better witness to the Catholicity of our Church.
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blog//twitter//
linkedin
Posts: 4893 | Registered: May 2001
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Merseymike
Shipmate
# 3022
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Posted
No, Ken ; I don't think a split necessarily means one group or another being forced out.
The only people suggesting that are conservative primates who wish to throw out ECUSA and are arguing that they have 'already expelled themselves'.
Which is nonsense.
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Christianity is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be experienced
Posts: 3360 | From: Walked the plank | Registered: Jul 2002
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Father Gregory
Orthodoxy
# 310
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Posted
Dear Edward
The Anglican Communion started with the East India Trading Company and the need for a chaplaincy for expats. It then became a colonial thing. If Anglicans truly believed in the branch theory they would close down those parts of the Anglican Communion where there was already an Orthodox or Roman Catholic Church upon the arrival of the British on one of their foreign excursions.
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Yours in Christ
Fr. Gregory
Find Your Way Around the Plot
TheOrthodoxPlot™
Posts: 15099 | From: Manchester, UK | Registered: May 2001
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Cardinal Pole Vault
Papal Bull
# 4193
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr. Gregory:
Dear Edward
The Anglican Communion started with the East India Trading Company and the need for a chaplaincy for expats. It then became a colonial thing. If Anglicans truly believed in the branch theory they would close down those parts of the Anglican Communion where there was already an Orthodox or Roman Catholic Church upon the arrival of the British on one of their foreign excursions.
I agree- but only if the Orthodox and the Romans close their branches in England....
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"Make tea, not war"
Posts: 986 | From: Insula Tiberina | Registered: Mar 2003
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