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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: A small group experience in spiritual formation
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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OK.

I started "Companions in Christ" at church tonight. It's a two hour, once a week "small group experience in spiritual formation."

We have a textbook. We have to keep a journal of our weekly spiritual thots and share them. My rector made me do it. We have meeting ground rules. They don't seem to encourage sarcastic off-the-cuff coments.

It was terrible. Everybody else seemed to be spiritual. We had to go around the table and tell a deep thot. I didn't have any, and had to make one up, but fortunately, I read threads in Purgatory often enough that I could fake it.

We had to stand and pray together at the end, holding hands. I hate holding hands unless we're having sex later.

I managed to fake it tonight and appear sincere and thotful, but this is going to go on for weeks, and I need a supply of spiritual and thotful comments so I can have a crib sheet.

I did mention that penitential processions should go counter-clockwise around the church, but apparently that's not the sort of thing they're looking for.

So if you all could help me out with some good sincere spiritual cliches, I would be most grateful.

Peace & Love,
Your brother in Christ,
Sine [Axe murder]

[ 14. April 2004, 23:57: Message edited by: Sarkycow ]

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
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Ewww, you poor thing! That sounds dreadful. [Frown]

What kind of spiritually deep thoughts are you looking for? Give me a topic or theme, and I can manufacture reams of 'em.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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Gag me with a spoon. All the same reasons I gave up going to "Ladies' Days" -- except for the ones where I'm the speaker!

Here's some deep thots, courtesy of the Ship:

"My religious life is a journey."

"Anyone who believes the Bible is literal must be a quack."

"I have been being believing in the whole of the world being as lost and hell-bound as to their lacking in faith."

"The gospel in a nutshell? GIN."

"I once thought I found a true Christian website -- but I was wrong."

Don't worry about thanking me. Having you look good in front of your Christian Companions is thanks enough for me.

--------------------
Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
What kind of spiritually deep thoughts are you looking for?

Well, tomorrow night I have to read chapter two, and its title is "The Nature of the Christian Spiritual Life" and some of the chapter sub-headings have to do with "grace".

I'm also more than willing to crib some entries for my spiritual journal, if you've any to spare.

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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271

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You don't have deep spiritual thoughts? I am shocked, shocked I tell you! How can I ever think of you the same way again? I have to go off now, and reassess my entire life. I am so upset.

--------------------
No longer the Bishop of Durham
-----------
If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Grace is like finally finding the one thing you've always wanted, but it's priced too high, but somebody comes and buys it for you.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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mousethief

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I'm sorry -- did you want deep thoughts, or facile thoughts? The latter would seem to fit the class better, and the former may be over your classmates' heads....

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Paige
Shipmate
# 2261

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Sine---Is this EFM Lite?

--------------------
Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection

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Amos

Shipmate
# 44

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Get out now, Sine, and you will be grateful for every breath of air for the rest of your life. That in itself should deepen your spirituality (pronounced spiritooALity). Get out, go home, count your blessings (bet you thought I was going to say 'count your bouillion spoons') and bake a cake. Whatever was your Rector thinking of? I take it she is part of this group--has she shared her deep thots? Or is it a requirement for all the choir? In that case, it is a vain attempt to instill deep thots where deep thots have never found a foothold.

--------------------
At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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Zeke, if I were spiritual my rector wouldn't be making me take the damn class.

The problem is I intellectualize everything too much. Everybody else was talking about wanting more Holy Spirit in their lives, and all I could think of was "you're emphasizing one person of the Trinity too much here folks."

And everyone else had such great stories about their spiritual journies. About friends who had prayed with them and told them about Jesus. And all I could think of was "I found Jesus. He was hiding behind the sofa."

The ship has ruined me. Absolutely ruined me.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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While I rarely agree with Amos, I'm afraid this time I must agree 100%. Run for your life, Sine. Don't look back.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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tomb
Shipmate
# 174

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There is absolutely nothing I hate more than small groups and their chickenshit pretend intimacy. Sign, I bet they're even worse in the South where everyone has to pretend to be naaahhs.

Runawayrunawayrunaway.

And if you can't, be absolutely honest. Not necessarily sarcastic or ironic, but direct.

Perhaps it's my management training, but I always think it salutary to discuss "outcomes" in this sort of situation. People go to meetings for purposes. This is true whether the meeting is a business consultation or a bunch of guys getting together for beer or, perhaps, ice cream eaten with special forks....

Anyway, sometimes the "outcome" is a given; but when you get a bunch of strangers or partial strangers together, it may be a good thing to talk about "why are we here." I remember before Mrs. tomb and I got hitched, we went to an "Engaged Encounter." This bright fuzzy cheerful woman (she later became a perpetual deacon in the diocese and a good friend) greeted us at sign-in and asked "and why did you decide to come to Engaged Encounter?"

"Our Rector made us come because he was too busy to council us."

She blanched and got this "deer-in-the-headlights" look, and I watched the spit start to evaporate from her teeth. But it was an honest answer. In the months after we got engaged, the rector had three parishioners (including the junior warden) drop dead unexpectedly while a good half dozen marriages in the parish imploded during that same period.

So we were stuck for Engaged Encounter, because every time we had pre-marital counseling, the Rector spilled his guts to us and not vice versa. But I wasn't going to tell her that; at least not at the first. Besides, it was a stupid question.

For Engaged Encounter, the soon-to-be Mrs. tomb and I wanted to develop relationship skills that would help us build and sustain a life together, an objective we had already identified as a "challenge"--or at least, Mrs. tomb had. So it was pretty easy to overlook the sorts of enforced intimacy and community building exercises that are designed to put people at ease so they will "open up."

Anecdotes aside, Sign, it is a legitimate question to ask the group "what do you want; what do you expect?" Don't expect any deep answers, let alone thought-out ones. Given the endemic alienation of our culture, it is reasonable to anticipate that people just want to talk and be friends. Wasn't it Thoreau who observed about the time he went off to hide misanthropically at Walden Pond, "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation"? But it is still important, I think, for people to discuss their expectation of outcome before they submit to any process. If nothing else, they will probably participate more enthusiastically.

So bear with the process, but don't let it compromise your honesty. People are willing to do all sorts of ridiculous things to obtain any pittance of intimacy. And if you stick with it long enough, you'll probably hear some stories that would have Flannery O'Connor spinning in her grave.

Be sure to share them.

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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271

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Sine, I tend to do the same thing. That is one reason I am in EFM: I have gotten so cerebral about so many subjects that I am not certain how I feel about them anymore. I'm trying to sort out what I really do and do not believe, although I do know some things.

--------------------
No longer the Bishop of Durham
-----------
If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
I take it she is part of this group--has she shared her deep thots?

Why yes, Amos. How did you guess. She's the moderator for the Monday night class, and our resident divinity student is doing the Thursday night class.

Although, seriously, I do want to learn about prayer. I'm just not sure this is going to work for me. It's a bit on the touchy-feely side for me. And I don't do well when you put me in a room with eight other comparative strangers (some are total strangers) and say "let's all trust each other and expose our innermost pain."

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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
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If you're uncomfortable with the deep feelings part of it, just stay away from that. I think it's fine to intellectualize your spirituality if that's what come easiest for you. I think the others will appreciate what you have to say and the way you say it. I don't think you're really there to judge content -- just say something that expresses your idea about the subject in an easily understood presentation. You have good thoughts, Sine -- they don't have to be deep. You'll do fine.

--------------------
Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
While I rarely agree with Amos, I'm afraid this time I must agree 100%. Run for your life, Sine. Don't look back.

Well you could try quoting thread titles from Purgatory at them - but "circumcision" could prove a dampener.

Don't you just hate the competitive thinking of deep thots?

There is a lot of mileage in "Sin, Guilt and Individual Confession", as well as some entertaining possibilities. "Reconciliation" may be more edifying. Both got a thorough going over in the RCIA group I am sort of involved in presenting, so I present them as road-tested certainties.

As for the hand-holding - we Catholics don't go in for that sort of thing. An embarrassed extension of the digits at the Sign of Peace is about the limit.

--------------------
2^8, eight bits to a byte

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mousethief

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Some people pay $100 an hour to sit in a room with 7 complete strangers and speak intimately about their innermost pain.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Paige
Shipmate
# 2261

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
[And I don't do well when you put me in a room with eight other comparative strangers (some are total strangers) and say "let's all trust each other and expose our innermost pain."

Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.

But I hear her on the "intellectualizing" thing. She said the same thing about me 7 years ago, and I'm just now getting around to dealing with it.

It IS a painful process, but I'm doing it with a spiritual director, solo. My EFM group gets some of the fallout, but we all know each other pretty well now (I'm in 3rd year), so I don't feel that I'm exposing myself unnecessarily.

Have you considered doing the spiritual direction thing (one on one)?

--------------------
Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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tomb, as always (ok, maybe, frequently) you hit the nail on the head. The nine of us broke up into "triads" at two points in the evening for small group discussion.

One of the triads came back to the conference room after twenty minutes all a twitter with how they had connected to one another.

After the second triad, they were almost engaged. So we already have an in-crowd. Bet they'll be going to get a bite to eat together after the class next week. And the week after that...I shudder to think. But the other six of us are already excluded from their instant intimacy.

Zeke, I know what you mean, and that's part of the reason I wanted to do it. I get very caught up in externals.

Paige, it is kind of EFM very lite. I guess.

I'm afraid it's going to be very fluffy bunny.

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tomb
Shipmate
# 174

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quote:
...I do want to learn about prayer. I'm just not sure this is going to work for me. It's a bit on the touchy-feely side for me....
For heaven's sake, Sign, there are enough hard-assed Roman Catholics on the Ship who could teach you a thing or two about Lectio Divina; the only thing touchy-feely about that would be when your knees got numb. Of course, the first time you experienced an apparition of the BVM or St. John or somebody, all bets would be off for a decade or two, but you'd eventually come round.

And if you want to know a thing or two about contemplative prayer, read The Cloud of Unknowing. I always am suspicious of people talking about contemplative prayer who have faces like Angel Food cake.

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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271

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by tomb:
quote:
...faces like Angel Food cake.
How do you have a face like cake?

--------------------
No longer the Bishop of Durham
-----------
If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
Some people pay $100 an hour to sit in a room with 7 complete strangers and speak intimately about their innermost pain.

The textbook costs twenty bucks.

On top of that, it turns out it's a Methodist program. (Sorry, Zach.)

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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[observation]

Gawd, we're spoiled, aren't we? [Big Grin]

--------------------
"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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After I read chapter two tomorrow night, I'll tell you what sort of thots I need. Then I have daily spiritual exercises for the rest of the week.

This is worse than piano lessons. Well, not actually. My piano teacher could reduce me to a gibbering idiot with a few sarcastic comments delivered through a cloud of cigarette smoke.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Zeke:
quote:
...faces like Angel Food cake.
How do you have a face like cake?
Angel food cake? You have a big hole in the middle.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
[observation]

Gawd, we're spoiled, aren't we? [Big Grin]

Why, yes, I am. I'm perfectly aware of that. But let me tell you, it takes a lot of energy to charm people into spoiling you. You can't let up for a second. There's no free lunch.
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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I started "Companions in Christ" at church tonight. It's a two hour, once a week "small group experience in spiritual formation."

We have a textbook. We have to keep a journal of our weekly spiritual thots and share them. My rector made me do it. We have meeting ground rules. They don't seem to encourage sarcastic off-the-cuff coments.

[...]

So if you all could help me out with some good sincere spiritual cliches, I would be most grateful.

Peace & Love,
Your brother in Christ,
Sine [Love]

Kum by ya, my Lord, kum by ya.
Kum by ya, my Lord, kum by ya.
Kum by ya, my Lord, kum by ya.
O Lord, kum by ya.

Mountain top experiences are wonderful, but growth occurs in the valley.

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Bonus Track

It's a small world after all,
It's a small world after all,
It's a small world after all,
It's a small, small world.

(And if that last song isn't a foretaste of Hell, I'm not sure what is. [Mad] )

Anything else you need help with, Mr. Nomine?

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Mountain top experiences are wonderful, but growth occurs in the valley.
No, I think I can get a fair amount of mileage out of that one.
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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
After I read chapter two tomorrow night, I'll tell you what sort of thots I need. Then I have daily spiritual exercises for the rest of the week.

This sounds like spiritual boot-camp. Your "engaged" triad are plainly going through the sort of cameraderie last seen in the troops at the Somme.

Look we do ask our RCIA candidates to get involved in our parish, come to Mass, read the Bible (at least the Mass readings) and think about them and there is a manual and guide to the Mass (featuring photographs of priests and members of the Paddington Cacophonic Society, looking spiritual).

But daily spiritual exercises - Sine, you have fallen into the hands of ECUSA's answer to St Ignatius.

tomb's point about prayer does remind me of the elderly nun I met, who was part of the perpetual Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament in her community. She told me that the knees toughen up after a few years. In her latter years, she did admit that knee pads were also becoming helpful.

--------------------
2^8, eight bits to a byte

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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Zeke:
quote:
...faces like Angel Food cake.
How do you have a face like cake?
Angel food cake? You have a big hole in the middle.
Then, it must not be a face we are talking about. Is it?

Mr. Nomine, is someone (read: rector) trying to ambush you with a group? Different people grow different ways. Is this method proven to be a good way for you to grow? If not, maybe you should seek a spiritual director for your life (no, I'm not available).

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
After I read chapter two tomorrow night, I'll tell you what sort of thots I need. Then I have daily spiritual exercises for the rest of the week.

tomb's point about prayer does remind me of the elderly nun I met, who was part of the perpetual Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament in her community. She told me that the knees toughen up after a few years. In her latter years, she did admit that knee pads were also becoming helpful.
Knee pads? I bet that is a discipline he can get into.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
(no, I'm not available).

quote:
Cecily: It seems to me, Miss Fairfax, that I am trespassing on your valuable time. No doubt you have many other calls of a similar character to make in the neighborhood.

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biscuit
Shipmate
# 3550

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Deep thots:
  • I was meditating on how the Trinity is like a good cherry pie, cut into three; we see three pieces on the outside, but on the inside it's all one...
  • I was wondering if I was sharing my spiritual fruit with enough people...
  • I was reflecting on the need some people have to eat their fruit with appropriate cutlery (feel free to add details here, Sine!) while other just bite and chew, and wondering how that reflects on my need to think about faith, while others need to feel/emote their faith...
  • Would Jesus eat lobster if it was prepared just right?

b.
Today's variety: Fig roll

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"The strength of the fish is in the water" (proverb)
Current flavour: Chocolate hobnob

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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738

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Sine, could you not just say something along the lines of 'while I am really interested in thinking and learning more about prayer, I am just not comfortable sharing deep thots and praying with people I don't know very well.' Is there a strong group pressure to conform?

Any good group leader should ensure that a small group does not expose people to the embarrassment of having to behave in ways they find awkward. If this isn't set up as a given, challenge it! I have had a similar experience, having recently joined a small (about 8 of us) house group. Everyone in the group except me assumed it would include a lot of 'open prayer'. I thought it was a discussion group. I don't do extempore prayer, ever; I'd feel both prattish and horribly exposed, like appearing in public in my underwear. So I forced myself to tell the group that I don't do extempore prayer, ever, explained why, asked them to respect my approach and said I would be happy to come for the discussion part. In other church group contexts I've sometimes refused the supposed treat of 'opening with a word of prayer'; far better to be clear about what you will and won't do, than reluctantly join in with something that makes you feel internally all kinds of a fool.....

They were a bit baffled, but my 'statement of intent' was accepted and it has actually been ok so far. I've also on several occasions said 'no, I don't believe x', or 'I would much rather we did a instead of b'.

The first time is the hardest, honestly; once people accept one as slightly oddball it all becomes much easier. And personally, I'd rather swim against the stream than have anyone think me the sort of person who *likes* praying in triads.

Boopy

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Boopy:
Any good group leader should ensure that a small group does not expose people to the embarrassment of having to behave in ways they find awkward. If this isn't set up as a given, challenge it!

Our rector made it perfectly clear that you weren't obligated to share more than you wanted to, and that silence was more than acceptable. But then several people started spilling their guts. They are newish members of the church and come from non-Anglican traditions. Me and the lady who are cradle Episcopalians sat there looking mortified. In fact, she had thought it was a Bible study class and was a bit taken aback when she found she was expected to talk about herself.

However, I think I can one-up them by telling them that I pray constantly while driving and cooking. I always have a hymn CD going in the car or in the kitchen, to which I sing along. That's praying isn't it?

I was half way through a rousing chorus of "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" at a stop light this morning before I realized I had the window down and the people in the next car were staring at me. It's hard to be a Christian.

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ChrisT

One of the Good Guys™
# 62

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Life is like a box of chocolates. You find that the one you really wanted has been licked already by someone else.

Is that what you wanted, Sine?

--------------------
Firmly on dry land

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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I'm not sure, being so new to the spiritual game. Perhaps I should go to the Gift & Party Supply Store in the mall at lunch time and see what they've got written on the sides of the inspirational coffee mugs.
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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738

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Ah, I know those inspirational coffee mugs. They're the ones which obstinately refuse to break, no matter how many times you drop them on quarry tiles. And they're always a gift, never a purchase.

Ours says 'Jesus is Lord', and on the other side 'Made in Jamaica', though probably the two statements are meant to be unconnected. I keep it amongst the top-shelf emergency crockery.

Stick to your Episcopalian guns. They can't actually *force* you to 'share'.

Boopy

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Laura
General nuisance
# 10

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Sine, I told you to do EFM, dammit. That's what's for you. Not some hippy-dippy-sharing encounter sessions! Bleah! I could pass off my materials to you, if you don't want to cough up the 300 bucks. I'm in year two. I like it a lot.

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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm

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Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

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These words should be the first out of your mouth at your next meeting.

"What if America was a Christian Nation again"

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
Sine, I told you to do EFM, dammit. That's what's for you. Not some hippy-dippy-sharing encounter sessions! Bleah! I could pass off my materials to you, if you don't want to cough up the 300 bucks. I'm in year two. I like it a lot.

I just thought it might be good Starter Spirituality. It wasn't the money really. (Well, it was a bit.)

Dear Lord. I just looked in the front of the book. It's twenty-eight weeks! We don't even start on "meditation and prayer" until the sixth week. Apparently we spend the first five weeks bonding and Sharing Insights™.

And one of the guys in the group has this really loud, jolly laugh. He laughed a lot. He shared that he's exploring his sexuality, which I thought had a particularly ominous ring to it. Fortunately he's not in my triad. Of course I don't know if the triads switch around every week.

Perhaps if I started referring to the mini-group as my prayer triage...

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Laura
General nuisance
# 10

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Dear Lord. I just looked in the front of the book. It's twenty-eight weeks! We don't even start on "meditation and prayer" until the sixth week. Apparently we spend the first five weeks bonding and Sharing Insights™.

O Lord. I will pray for you. My EFM groups spends a lot of time arguing and bullshitting and drinking. Do you at least get to drink?

--------------------
Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
Do you at least get to drink?

No, that would be Wednesday night after choir practice. We have an official bar, and our own table.

I don't even have to order. They just bring it to me.

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Rosa Gallica officinalis
Shipmate
# 3886

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Sounding super-spiritual is actually very easy. All you need to know is that every other word must be 'really' or 'just' with the occasional 'reallyjustreally'thrown in. Practice in front of the mirror to stop cringeing.

[ 14. October 2003, 17:29: Message edited by: Apothecary ]

--------------------
Come for tea, come for tea, my people.

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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Dear Lord. I just looked in the front of the book. It's twenty-eight weeks! We don't even start on "meditation and prayer" until the sixth week. Apparently we spend the first five weeks bonding and Sharing Insights™.

Mr. Nomine, has the book discussed safe bonding yet? Remember, when you share an idea in the group you share that idea with every other person that has shared that idea in the past. I wouldn't want you picking up the germ of an idea and become a Methodist on us.

This whole program is sounding kinkier and kinkier each time you post.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
I wouldn't want you picking up the germ of an idea and become a Methodist on us.

Actually, last night our rector somewhat shamefacedly muttered that it's a Methodist course. But we should be safe enough I think. It's not like we'll be singing their hymns or anything really dangerous.

quote:
This whole program is sounding kinkier and kinkier each time you post.
I get the feeling you constructed that sentence very carefully. You haven't met our friend Chast yet, have you?
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Zeke
Ship's Inquirer
# 3271

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Does the group even have an agreed-upon confidentiality norm? So you know that what you share doesn't end up all over the church, not to mention with the friends and family of everyone who knows each person in the group?

This really does sound like a stripped down version of EFM in some ways. You should go for the real thing, it's much better.

--------------------
No longer the Bishop of Durham
-----------
If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be without it? --Benjamin Franklin

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Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

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It might make your therapy-mates uncomfortable, but I think it's time to go into original sin in excruciating detail when it's your turn to talk next.
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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
I wouldn't want you picking up the germ of an idea and become a Methodist on us.

Actually, last night our rector somewhat shamefacedly muttered that it's a Methodist course. But we should be safe enough I think. It's not like we'll be singing their hymns or anything really dangerous.
Have you bothered to count the number of John Wesley hymns in the Hymnal 1982? O for a thousand songs to sing...

quote:

quote:
This whole program is sounding kinkier and kinkier each time you post.
I get the feeling you constructed that sentence very carefully. You haven't met our friend Chast yet, have you?
Moi? Write carefully? [Two face] (You've looked at my résumé, haven't you?) Do I need to be introduced to Chast?

Education for Ministry is not a cure-all. It depends on the group, and especially the leadership. Buy me a drink and I might tell you about the one year of EFM I have back in 1985-86. After my experience (which is far from many people's experience with EFM, fortunately), I have yet to find a reason to go back.

Dim bulbs can ruin any brilliant program.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Zeke:
Does the group even have an agreed-upon confidentiality norm? So you know that what you share doesn't end up all over the church, not to mention with the friends and family of everyone who knows each person in the group?

Supposedly, but I still wouldn't admit to anything I didn't want the whole church to know. The "laughing guy" strikes me as a gossiper.
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