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Fr. Gregory-
I'm not saying that groups like this can't have value. They can and do. However inexpertly run groups that can easily be hijacked can easily become either tiresome of spiritually abusive.

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And Sine, dear, I think you are just the one to hijack yours and subvert it before it becomes "tiresome or spiritually abusive." (Too late? ) Think of it as your spiritual calling.



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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Hmmm...nuts, marshmallows, and chopped dates...all held together by Jello. Three in one, and one in three.

I think we're on to something here.

But what does the Cool Whip on top represent?

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Rats, Kelly Alves best me to the reply.

Sine, if you're not going to drop out (because your pastor knows you need something that you will get from this class or whatever it is) and you aren't going to actively subvert it (because your pastor knows you too well and will see through your pseudo-cooperative-but-actually-subversive contributions), I only see two options left:

1. Accept that Pastor Knows Best ™ and meekly continue.

2. Have a public Hissy Fit ™ and storm out of the class, never to be seen again.

I choose #1 and discovered that indeed, that horrible RCIA class met some needs I had, but the downside is that the good memories are forever tinged with all the cringing memories.

#2 would be a lot more fun! That's what my godmother did twice before she finally managed to get through RCIA.

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Originally posted by jlg:
Rats, Kelly Alves best me to the reply.

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It was pretty obvious, wasn't it?


And as for you tomb...I wish you were my Sunday School teacher when I was a kid.

[ 19. October 2003, 05:09: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
.... And as for you tomb...I wish you were my Sunday School teacher when I was a kid.

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
At one point our rector said, in a rather stern voice, "Do you have anything else you'd like to add, Sine?"

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My, she is so accpeting of you and your spiritual journey. I think you have your invite to leave now.

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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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Originally posted by biscuit:
Spiritual need is the need to have purpose in your life (ie so you are then able to value yourself). It's about seeking something higher or greater than yourself, ie something transcendant, that you can respond to.

Emotional need is the need to know others value you, so that you can respond to them.

A lot of people get 'em mixed up...

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Originally posted by Erin:
You could, for instance, have been one of the original Christians and been forced to live with people sharing their feelings 24/7.

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Originally posted by Moo:
Sharing one's feelings is a twentieth/twenty-first century fashion.

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:


When everyone else was talking about how their friends and family were part of God's grace in their lives, I asked what the difference was between the Methodist view of grace and the Roman Catholic view. And just what was this argument between Catholics and Protestants over works.

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And now I've just come from choir rehearsal and found out that we're now expected to sing at monthly "alternative" services on Sunday evening. And even our director, who has a high tolerance for touchy-feely smarm, seems a little dismayed by what's on the plate for this Sunday. Which is really, really, scary. It must be bad because he's going to have us sing Rotter's Gaelic Blessing. And we're not going to vest because it would be too "formal".

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Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
Did anyone else take you up on Reformation politics?

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Originally posted by Sarkycow:
Perhaps you had been such a mean and selfish person, living only for yourself, and had either driven everyone else away, or you realised that your life was empty.

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Find a B-class 60s sob story film, and plagairise the plot.

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When walking alone, you met with God. Nothing dramatic - rector would know you were lying.

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How about an acceptance of you, as you are, as you realise how dirty and bad you are?

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Then some fudge about life having its ups and downs since then, but this unshakeable acceptance of you, just the way you are has never left you. This ending has the added bonus of them not being able to criticize you for being as you are - if God likes you that way, who are they to criticize?

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And, if you are a bit vague on some details, try looking upset. People won't pry

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Parenthetically, have you ever noticed how much accounts of sudden conversion experiences sound like nervous breakdowns? Saint Augustine's certainly does.

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I once had an instance of jet lag/food poisoning that seemed a good deal like Dame Julian's experience of being harassed by demons.

No joke.

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Wonder, Love, and Praise continues the numbering of the 1982 hymnal. Beginning with hymn 721, it spreads out a smorgasbord of offerings in a variety of musical styles--German chorale tunes, folk tunes, Taizé songs, spirituals, ballads. You'll find both familiar tunes like "Sine Nomine" coupled with new words (880), and beloved texts like "Abide With Me" in musical settings composed in the last decade (799). There's a delightful Christmas carol in Chinese, Latin-flavored songs in Spanish, and songs with texts as diverse as a Navajo prayer

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Piece O' Cake...

"Love Divine, all loves excelling"

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
The Episcopal Church has two supplements to its regular hymnal. One of them is an inclusive-language, multi-cultural, "musically accessible" one called "Wonder, Love, & Praise". I loathe it.

I did have the pleasure Monday night, when the rector asked "What's the name of that green hymnal we use, Sine?" of answering "Wonder, Love & Puke". It was the high point of the class as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Piece O' Cake...

"Love Divine, all loves excelling"

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Hopefully sung to Hyfrydol.

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Hyfrydol
"Sine Nomine coupled with new words" - I always knew you wrote your own material, but this is a bit much.

I'm with tomb and the Cootster - most spiritual journeys are neither edifying nor happy, whatever the end result.

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2^8, eight bits to a byte

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Piece O' Cake...

"Love Divine, all loves excelling"

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Hopefully sung to Hyfrydol.

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Remembering that WLP is considered a supplement meant to try things out with, not necessarily a polished work, I'm shocked--SHOCKED, mind you--that you loathe WLP. Has it no redeeming value in your mind?

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Remembering that WLP is considered a supplement meant to try things out with, not necessarily a polished work, I'm shocked--SHOCKED, mind you--that you loathe WLP. Has it no redeeming value in your mind?

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Bead, don't make me be real. Of course it's got some redeeming value. I actually like some of the stuff. But I despise it on the general principle of the introduction, which is one of the smarmiest pieces of writing it's ever been my misfortune to read, and encapsulates all I find annoying about the New York Office.

And I find it telling that when Church Publishing put out their CD of selections from WL&P, they had Neswick's* girl's choir do it, as if they knew how puke-making it would sound if done by an adult choir.

* This is not a dig against Bruce, or girl's choirs, so nobody needs to jump to his/their defense.

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I know! You just don't like music played on a shrunti (or however it is spelled). Kyrie eleison.

Either that, or you don't like Bach chorale preludes.

See, you aren't the only person with a CD player.

Actually, I feel a small need to come to the defense of WL&P (swarminess, notwithstanding). Let's say I know which organ bench Shirley Hill warms these days. Hint.

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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Actually, I feel a small need to come to the defense of WL&P (swarminess, notwithstanding).

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You might also choose to draw your spiritual journey. Take a large sheet of blank paper, or tape several together for adequate space. Draw a line that represents your life, showing the ups and downs, turns, circles, or whatever pattern seems right to you. Mark particularly significant events with symbols that represent what they have meant in your faith life. Be creative with this process, using colors to express your feelings at various times or gluing onto the paper other materials that expand and interpret your symbols.

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