homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Hell: A small group experience in spiritual formation (Page 5)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: A small group experience in spiritual formation
tomb
Shipmate
# 174

 - Posted      Profile for tomb   Author's homepage   Email tomb   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
... I'm only in week 4 of my spiritual development. You guys won't know me after 28 weeks. I'll have to find a more Christian board to post on....

This sounds like you bought one of those machines off cable TV with a credit card: "Spiritual Enlightenment and Ripped Abs...." Hawked by Suzanne Sommers--she of the cartilaginous lips with her polished gray hair and colored contact lenses.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who would stoop to something like that is Shallow, no matter how many people they heal.

Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have never claimed not to be shallow. But, at least I put myself in a place where God's redeeming Grace* [Angel] can work on me...bitch.

I like to think that when I am saved there will be a great deal of rejoicing in Heaven. I like to think the cherubim, seraphim, etc. will say "Christ! (if you'll pardon the expression), He really is omnipotent!"

* Which we learned about last week. Lesson Three.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
tomb
Shipmate
# 174

 - Posted      Profile for tomb   Author's homepage   Email tomb   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
You know, Sign, that the frightening thing about this is that, at some point in this ordeal you're gonna have something resembling a Spiritual Experience (think of it as an orgasm of the brain) and will be absolutely worthless until Lent when the buzz starts to wear off.

We'll do our best not to be nasty to you or patronize you in Hell until you get over it.

Promise.

Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

 - Posted      Profile for Tortuf   Author's homepage   Email Tortuf   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Sine, I love you like a brother. And, I would leave you alone, friendless and deserted, in a split second if you asked me to go to that group. [Paranoid]

I am noted for running with scissors and not playing well with others in "spiritual" group settings. Perhaps it is my inner demon asserting itself.

You, on the other hand, seem to exhibit a preternatural patience with the group, coded snide remarks and all. Maybe the exercise for you is to discover how patient you really are. [Big Grin]

Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251

 - Posted      Profile for Duo Seraphim*   Email Duo Seraphim*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I like to think the cherubim, seraphim, etc. will say "Christ! (if you'll pardon the expression), He really is omnipotent!"

This is how psychological cult indoctrination techniques work, Sine. One week you're there with your coded man-of-the-world insights into One Man's Lonely Spiritual Journey and the next you are their mindless slave.

Oh, I'm sorry. Ahem...
"Christ, He really is omnipotent!"

--------------------
2^8, eight bits to a byte

Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
georgia
Shipmate
# 4875

 - Posted      Profile for georgia   Email georgia       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Run away . Run away.

--------------------
'I am not much in the mood for deep talk.'. Daisy Ashford

Posts: 129 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

 - Posted      Profile for Sarkycow   Email Sarkycow   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
You, on the other hand, seem to exhibit a preternatural patience with the group, coded snide remarks and all. Maybe the exercise for you is to discover how patient you really are. [Big Grin]

I would have been extremely rude, subtlely of course, about their stories. Then again, I would have made up a spiritual journey, and dared the rector to call my bluff.

You did good for at least telling the truth. Even if it was in code.

When they take you away for a weekend, and pray for the Holy Spirit to come into your life, we'll close this thread as no longer needed [Frown]

Sarkycow

--------------------
“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Ak-shually, I do rather believe there is a retreat planned toward the end of the program.

I got to hold hands with Smiley Boy and Softball Girl when we prayed at the end of the evening last night. Softball Girl had a firm, manly grip. Smiley Boy's hand was soft, boneless and somewhat damp.

Next week is "Living As Covenant Community". That has an unfortunate resemblance to "coven" in my mind. Do they come from the same root word, I wonder?

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Scot

Deck hand
# 2095

 - Posted      Profile for Scot   Email Scot   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Next week is "Living As Covenant Community". That has an unfortunate resemblance to "coven" in my mind. Do they come from the same root word, I wonder?

Possibly so. Perhaps you should come equipped to explore either option.

--------------------
“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

 - Posted      Profile for Sarkycow   Email Sarkycow   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Next week is "Living As Covenant Community". That has an unfortunate resemblance to "coven" in my mind. Do they come from the same root word, I wonder?

Does this have anything to do with giving them money? Covenanting is tithing I'm thinking...

If so, best declare yourself bankrupt [Biased]

Oh, and from Merriam-Webster Online
quote:
Coven
Etymology: Middle English covin band, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin convenium agreement, from Latin convenire to agree.

and

quote:
Covenant
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from present participle of covenir to agree, from Latin convenire to agree.

I think this says it all [Snigger]

[Added bold for emphasis.]

[ 04. November 2003, 13:26: Message edited by: Sarkycow ]

--------------------
“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085

 - Posted      Profile for Talitha   Email Talitha   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've been watching this topic with great interest...

I don't want to hijack your thread, Sine, but I just thought I'd throw this in:
I recently went to the first meeting of an Alpha course, because various friends had plugged it as a forum where I could raise all my questions and get intelligent, non-simplistic answers.
Au contraire. It started with a talk, with painfully bad jokes, worship songs, and a not very comprehensive argument for why Jesus was God. (Well, actually, it *started* with a bowl of soup for which they charged me £4, but that's irrelevant.) Then we split into groups for "discussion."
I had thought long and hard before I went, about whether I would play the sarcastic, subversive devil's advocate, or the earnest seeker who just can't quite see how things fit together. I opted for the latter.
The small group leader had been primed with questions to ask us if discussion got slack, and they were all written with people in mind who had never considered the claims of Christianity before, instead of the existing group, which consisted of one earnest seeker clawing her way back from atheism, one guy from another church, and about six people from the church running the course, complete with identical paste-on smiles and the view that everything makes sense once you give your life to Jesus.

Leader: So has the talk changed your perception of who Jesus was?
<Silence>
Leader: You can say no if you want.
Me: No.
Leader: Why not?
Me: I don't mean to be rude, but I've heard the exact same talk several times before.

And so it went on. I had expected there to be a couple of militant atheists in the group, but in fact, with my relatively innocuous questions like "How do we know the words of Jesus written in the Bible are the same ones he spoke a generation previously?" and "What happens if you pray for faith and don't receive it?", I came across as by far the most sceptical person there. I felt like something of an intruder. If it weren't for me they could have got on with nodding their heads and repeating that Jesus was God, in peace.
I decided I wasn't getting anywhere, and haven't been back.

Anyway, my question, after that longish preamble, is: do you think I *should* go back anyway, and be brutally honest or make things up or both, and unsettle the complacent paste-on faces?

Slight tangent: Before the course started, someone from the church I used to go to actually told me that I ought *not* to go to the Alpha course, because I express doubts, and other Christians might be deconverted by exposure to me and my doubts. [Mad]

Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ophelia's Opera Therapist
Shipmate
# 4081

 - Posted      Profile for Ophelia's Opera Therapist   Author's homepage   Email Ophelia's Opera Therapist   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Talitha,

Very similar thoughts have been troubling me. Recently a christian friend of mine was suggesting a non-Christian mutual friend of ours visit a kind of discussion group at his church. It sounded rather interesting, until I realised it was the alpha course.

Now I have done the Alpha course, been a small group leader no less. But I do worry about the effect I could have if I joined a group with my present doubts and angst. This may be a delusion of how powerful I am, but I do agree how someone speaking honestly could seriously upset the smiley faces riding on the apple cart.

Maybe someone needs to start an alternative group for the backslidden issue-laden misfits who might sabotage an alpha course. But they might be asking for trouble.

OOT

(or maybe they did already... it's called the Ship... [Biased] )

--------------------
Though the bleak sky is burdened I'll pray anyway,
And though irony's drained me I'll now try sincere,
And whoever it was that brought me here
Will have to take me home.
Martyn Joseph

Posts: 979 | From: Birmingham, UK | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Scot

Deck hand
# 2095

 - Posted      Profile for Scot   Email Scot   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ophelia's Opera Therapist:
Maybe someone needs to start an alternative group for the backslidden issue-laden misfits who might sabotage an alpha course. But they might be asking for trouble.

I've actually been thinking lately about how I might pull off such a thing in my church without being tarred and feathered. That is the one and only kind of small/prayer/bible study/mens group I would actually attend. On the other hand, it might not be an entirely helpful experience.

quote:
(or maybe they did already... it's called the Ship... [Biased] )
You noticed?

[ 04. November 2003, 14:04: Message edited by: Scot ]

--------------------
“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085

 - Posted      Profile for Talitha   Email Talitha   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:

(or maybe they did already... it's called the Ship... [Biased] )

Absolutely. Yay for the Ship. [Big Grin]
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Laura
General nuisance
# 10

 - Posted      Profile for Laura   Email Laura   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ophelia's Opera Therapist:
Maybe someone needs to start an alternative group for the backslidden issue-laden misfits who might sabotage an alpha course. But they might be asking for trouble.

OOT

(or maybe they did already... it's called the Ship... [Biased] )

Actually, it was mentioned earlier in the thread -- it's (somewhat mis-)called EFM, Education for Ministry (a seminary-level theology course offered in small groups over four years). My particular EFM group is a theological drinking, eating and bulshitting society. We do occasionally hold hands to pray, but by then we're all tipsy, so it's okay from an Episcopal perspective. [Big Grin]

I've already told Sine he got on the wrong bus. But perhaps God wanted him to do this one for some inscrutable purpose.

--------------------
Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm

Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
I've already told Sine he got on the wrong bus. But perhaps God wanted him to do this one for some inscrutable purpose.

Well, I thought this would be good Starter Spirituality. A) It's only twenty-eight weeks, and B) the book was only twenty bucks. Four years seemed a little overwhelming.

Much like Saint Augustine, I don't want to rush into this holiness thing. Best to start off at the shallow end of the pool when you can't swim. And this pool is pretty shallow.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Laura
General nuisance
# 10

 - Posted      Profile for Laura   Email Laura   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
"The Holiness Thing"!?!? [Killing me] Me?? [Killing me]

(think I've hurt myself)

I'm doing a baked ham and assparagus casserole for my group tonight -- what do you think with that? White? Red? Champagne?

--------------------
Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm

Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473

 - Posted      Profile for Huia   Email Huia   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Laura:

I'm doing a baked ham and assparagus casserole for my group tonight -- what do you think with that? White? Red? Champagne?

Now that sounds like a study group I could relate to.

Huia

--------------------
Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I always prefer a white. If things get raucous the stains don't show as badly.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

 - Posted      Profile for Alt Wally     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
A) It's only twenty-eight weeks,
Didn't something go off in your brain when you typed that?
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

 - Posted      Profile for The Bede's American Successor   Author's homepage   Email The Bede's American Successor   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
I've already told Sine he got on the wrong bus. But perhaps God wanted him to do this one for some inscrutable purpose.

Well, I thought this would be good Starter Spirituality. A) It's only twenty-eight weeks, and B) the book was only twenty bucks. Four years seemed a little overwhelming.

Much like Saint Augustine, I don't want to rush into this holiness thing. Best to start off at the shallow end of the pool when you can't swim. And this pool is pretty shallow.
(emphasis added to original)
Touché, Mr. Nomine. Mark of a true Southern Gentleman®.

Let me add something about the Education for Ministry course from the University of the South, Sewanee, Tennesee. I had a year of it back in 1985-86 when I was still living in South Dakota, and have had trouble even thinking of going back to finish. The problem was not the actual course material; they were quite good. The problem was a former rector that was leading the class, or mis-leading it in the class activities you do in addition to what you study in the book to help you learn to think theologically. When done right, these activities are a Good Thing™.

About halfway through the "school year," things were going so badly (not even close to what the participant manuals said we were supposed to be doing) I started playing a Midwestern Terrorist in order to maintain my sanity. This led up to a different activity one evening, a thinly veiled group attack led by the rector. The rector knew his remediation for me wasn't working when I answered one hypothetical question (which I don't remember at the moment) with a cold, steely glare, looking right at him. At that point he admited what was happening (supposedly under guidance from Sewanee), and we got down to business and discussed the real issues. Honesty works better than games.

After the dust settled, I give the rector credit for going back and (finally) reading the leaders manual (for the first time), and calling Sewanee for additional help. About a month later the rector was a big enough person to admit I was right, things were going drastically astray, and he had been wrong. While I'm not always right, this time I can say, "He shot. He scored!"

I know I should not blame the University of the South (how I love you, my dear old Sewanee). After all, it is "garbage in, garbage out." Still, I have this fear of "second verse, same as the first."

Mr. Nomine knows from a PM I sent him of another "spiritual experience" I participated in that I am now very much the sceptic on these things. Not that they don't or can't work, but some of us just don't work well with "off the shelf" solutions.

For those that have participated in Alpha: Could you please send me a real e-mail about this course? There are some considering using it at my current spiritual home. This course may be good for some, but for whom--and with what results?

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
quote:
A) It's only twenty-eight weeks,
Didn't something go off in your brain when you typed that?
One thing I have already learned from this...and I hope you all can profit from my experience...is: Never Miss the First Meeting. Of anything.

I foolishly assumed, for no particular reason, that it was probably around twelve weeks.

Oh! I have just discovered that in the very back of the book we have our own official coven song. The lyrics will slay you. I'll post them when I get a chance.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

 - Posted      Profile for Alt Wally     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
by SN: I foolishly assumed, for no particular reason, that it was probably around twelve weeks.
Twelve weeks sounds awfffuuuly long to me.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lady R of Ashwood
Shipmate
# 4788

 - Posted      Profile for Lady R of Ashwood   Email Lady R of Ashwood   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Firstly [Killing me] this is my favourite comedy thread at the moment. Sine, perhaps you could say that you were told that by sharing your spiritual experiences within the group with a total stranger you had improved the quality of their day?

As for Alpha, I just asked Lord R what he thought. He had a very positive experience of it as a new christian. I had a quite mediocre experience of it as an old (? as in not new) christian. One of my best friends and her boyf had a bloody awful experience of it as an old and very very well informed christian and a staggeringly intelligent non-christian. Lord R reckons that if you are pretty new to the faith, and have a good group, and are not looking for the sophisticated answers, then it is excellent. Esp the group though - a lot of its plus points for him were clearing up the basics in a forum with great folk. (have read this to Lord R and he says that sums it up pretty well).

The problem with Alpha is that the CofE et al seem to think that it is THE answer and that everyone would benifit from going on the course. Which it is not. And they wouldn't. I am tempted to give it a slagging, but I am aware that many people find it very helpful. It doesnt exactly address questions like 'how Christ can be both fully-man and fully-God' though. Oh, and the weekend away is all about the Holy Spirit. In fact maybe it is for you Sine - it might be just that spiritual experience you have been straining after!

--------------------
Are you kidding? Fencing. Fighting. Torture. Rev***e. Giants. Monsters. Chases. Escapes. True love. Miracles.

Posts: 420 | From: Glasgow | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266

 - Posted      Profile for Nightlamp   Email Nightlamp   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lady R of Ashwood:



The problem with Alpha is that the CofE et al seem to think that it is THE answer and that everyone would benifit from going on the course.

Which CofE are you talking about? Most churches round here use Emmaus or a local home grown course but i do know of one church that uses Credo. Someone was telling me about 'start' what ever that is about.

--------------------
I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lady R of Ashwood:
Oh, and the weekend away is all about the Holy Spirit. In fact maybe it is for you Sine - it might be just that spiritual experience you have been straining after!

This was a bit more what I had in mind.

Comedy thread. Humph. You try to be open and vulnerable, and whadda ya get. "Comedy thread".

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Oh dear. The lyrics are copywrited. Should have known it. But perhaps just a bit of a quote, to whet your appetite.

"Companions, we are companions on the journey of life. We are companions by the Spirit in one holy bond of peace..."

Well, actually, that's pretty much it, 'cause it just kinda repeats for a while.

Needless to say, guitar chords are provided.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

 - Posted      Profile for The Bede's American Successor   Author's homepage   Email The Bede's American Successor   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Oh dear. The lyrics are copywrited. Should have known it. But perhaps just a bit of a quote, to whet your appetite.

"Companions, we are companions on the journey of life. We are companions by the Spirit in one holy bond of peace..."

Well, actually, that's pretty much it, 'cause it just kinda repeats for a while.

Needless to say, guitar chords are provided.

De colores, de colores me gusto los campos in la primavera....

If I tell you any more of the words the secret Cursillo police will have to kill anyone that reads this thread.

(Actually, "De Colores" is a Spanish-language folk song and not some secret pass-sign for those that have been to a Cursillo weekend. I once shocked some hispanics at a migrant workers' rights march once by joining in with them. Since the song talks about rainbows and chicken I'm surprised the Gay Rights Movement hasn't adopted it.)

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

 - Posted      Profile for Grits   Author's homepage   Email Grits   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
"Bind us together, Lord.
Bind us together
With cords that cannot be bro----ken..."


After 28 weeks of this you'll either be a drooling, hug-a-tree, lapdog of a Christian, or you'll be asking when where the nearest atheist meeting takes place.

Maybe it's OK that your spiritual journey is a comedy thread...

--------------------
Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251

 - Posted      Profile for Duo Seraphim*   Email Duo Seraphim*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
"Companions, we are companions on the journey of life. We are companions by the Spirit in one holy bond of peace..."

It's not exactly the Christian Internationale, is it?

--------------------
2^8, eight bits to a byte

Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
On top of that it's 4/4 and D Major.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Paige
Shipmate
# 2261

 - Posted      Profile for Paige   Email Paige   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Next up was a young woman who grew up Southern Baptist and went to a Baptist school. She was very active in Campus Crusade for Christ, but had several jolts that tried her faith in organized religion, but she never doubted that God loved her. Her biggest jolt came when she realized she was a lesbian. (I would have thought that the fact she got an athletic scholarship for college might have been a giveaway -- for softball, no less. But that is neither here nor there.)

After several years of being away from the church, she found St. Withit, which has helped her find her way back to God. At this point she broke down in tears. I checked my manicure.

You know, I've been bothered by this thread from the beginning, but the above quote just about sent me over the edge.

Sine---have you ever thought about what your fellow classmates might feel about the things you have written about them if they were to stumble across them? Wonder what your rector would say if she knew that you are doing this? I bet she wouldn't find it "affirming" in the least.

I'm almost certain that you agreed to confidentiality when you joined that group. You haven't posted people's names, but anyone who goes to "St. Withit" would know who they are. How do you square a promise of confidentiality with what you have done here?

What you're doing here is not having a conversation---the Ship is a fucking library, which records for posterity all your disdain towards people who are making an honest attempt to improve their relationship with God. They may be smarmy or not as smart as you, but at least they are honest. You are being dishonest, and cruel to boot. If you had an ounce of integrity you'd quit that fucking group, but I guess you get too much mileage out of making fun, don't you? After all, this thread has gone to 5 pages now, and shows no sign of letting up any time soon.

And why, you may well ask, has Paige got her knickers in a twist about this? Because two weeks ago, I was asked to share my spiritual journey for the last year with my 3rd-year EFM class. That journey has been, and continues to be, a very rocky one---and when I was talking about it, I burst into tears in front of my classmates.

And now I have to face the fact that my honest emotional outburst could very likely be fodder for fun and derision by people I ought to be able to trust. Just like the people in your group ought to be able to say what they need or want to say without having to worry that their most intimate thoughts and feelings will be posted on a fucking international discussion board. [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

--------------------
Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection

Posts: 886 | From: Sweet Tea Land, USA | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

 - Posted      Profile for Alt Wally     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
by Sine: This was a bit more what I had in mind.
Becoming a Nun? Wow, you really are taking this seriously.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

 - Posted      Profile for The Bede's American Successor   Author's homepage   Email The Bede's American Successor   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
"Companions, we are companions on the journey of life. We are companions by the Spirit in one holy bond of peace..."

It's not exactly the Christian Internationale, is it?
I thought the Christian Internationale was on this web site, under "Anthem of the Revolution."

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

 - Posted      Profile for Tortuf   Author's homepage   Email Tortuf   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
paigeb, I feel your pain. OK, I don't really feel your pain.

Why don't you cuss at me for a while? Will it make you feel better?

Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

 - Posted      Profile for Alt Wally     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Paige, I think a lot of people would be pissed off if they read the things that people wrote on these boards about them. I know I would be really red-faced about things I've written if the person they were about ever found out. I would venture to say that for many there is therapeutic value in being able to get out feelings that they have no other outlet for, and that the semi-anonymous nature of this board allows them to do so in a way they can't otherwise.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by paigeb:
Wonder what your rector would say if she knew that you are doing this? I bet she wouldn't find it "affirming" in the least.

I'm almost certain that you agreed to confidentiality when you joined that group. You haven't posted people's names, but anyone who goes to "St. Withit" would know who they are. How do you square a promise of confidentiality with what you have done here?

Whoa, baby! Back off. You owe me an apology right now & big time. Yes, you know the rector and St. Withit. Only because I made the mistake of telling you privately what we shared in common. I thought about it at length before I did it for this very reason, and now I regret that I did it. I should, as always, have followed my initial impulse.

Now let's get this straight (if you'll pardon the expression), Do you think I would have hung around that church as long as I have if I didn't have a real affection for it?

Do you think I don't know the rector, and that she doesn't know me very well indeed? Do you think I haven't done the Rite of Reconcilliation with her and had her crying and laughing at the same time. If she read this thread she wouldn't be the least surprised and would find it in large part funny. She does have a sly, wicked sense of humor, or maybe she never showed you that side of her personality.

Moreover, do you think I would have committed to this program if I didn't take it seriously at heart? Get real. I've got better things to do with my time.

Are you incapable of holding two opposing thoughts in your mind at the same time? And you call yourself an Anglican.

I WILL continue with this thread until the Hosts get bored and close it. Because I can see the silly side of all of this. And I WILL continue in the class and try to get the most out of it I can.

I AM capable of holding two opposing thoughts in my mind at the same time.

And anyone who goes to St. Withit would NOT know who the people mentioned were. "Softball Girl" certainly doesn't narrow it down much at that church, now does it?

Damn, I'm typing in CAPS. The return of watchman. God help me.

And p.p.s: (another sign of insanity) You have NO IDEA who I'm talking about. You haven't been there in years.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Why don't you email the rector and tell her where to find this thread. Then you'd have a self-fullfilling prophecy, wouldn't you. Very satisfying, I'm sure.

How dare you take advantage of information given to you privately. You're no better than you accuse me of being. Worse in fact, I'd say.

Get out of my face. For shame.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

 - Posted      Profile for RooK   Author's homepage   Email RooK   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, I'd say that meow-hiss exchange ensured the continued existence of this thread for a while.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I hope I'm the "hiss".
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by paigeb:
They may be smarmy or not as smart as you, but at least they are honest. You are being dishonest, and cruel to boot.

Quadruple post, or whatever. Sorry. I just homed in on this.

And just how, Miss Paige, do you know that they were being honest? Or that I was being dishonest? You were not in the room. I was. In fact my infallible smarm-alarm was going off the dial when Smiley Boy was talking. He's a lawyer. He knows how to talk.

You are projecting from what I will, in Christian charity, assume to be your honesty in your EFM class. I'm willing to take your word for it, even though I wasn't there.

And as has been made PERFECTLY (caps again) clear this is not EFM. Yesterday was only the fourth meeting. And I missed the first one. Some broad I barely know, sitting next to me, starts boo-hooing; yeah, I'm going to be embarrassed.

This thread was actually seeming to me to have some value to be an unrestful record of one boy's (OK. Middle-aged curmudgeon's) spiritual journey. With some humor, and sarcasm, and I was hoping, a realistic, if cynical, look at some of these programs churches are so fond of selling to the congo.

The fact that a lot of shipmates have chimed in and said "Yeah. I've been at that meeting too!" must mean it's not just me.

I still come back to the fact that you would not have made the post you did if you had not been in possession of personal information that I oh-so-foolishly gave you. I want to publicly brand you in this forum as untrustworthy.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251

 - Posted      Profile for Duo Seraphim*   Email Duo Seraphim*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
quote:
Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
"Companions, we are companions on the journey of life. We are companions by the Spirit in one holy bond of peace..."

It's not exactly the Christian Internationale, is it?
I thought the Christian Internationale was on this web site, under "Anthem of the Revolution."
[Killing me] Bede!! What a truly fabulous monstrance on the link "Anglo-Catholic Socialism"! Gladdened the heart of this old Socialist anyway.

--------------------
2^8, eight bits to a byte

Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
tomb
Shipmate
# 174

 - Posted      Profile for tomb   Author's homepage   Email tomb   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
....Actually, it was mentioned earlier in the thread -- it's (somewhat mis-)called EFM, Education for Ministry (a seminary-level theology course offered in small groups over four years). My particular EFM group is a theological drinking, eating and bulshitting society. We do occasionally hold hands to pray, but by then we're all tipsy, so it's okay from an Episcopal perspective. ...

Well, Laura, your EFM groups are sure a lot different from the ones around here. We have a disproportionate percentage of middle-aged housewives who "do" EFM and suddenly discover a Call to the perpetual diaconate.

And there is nothing scarier than a post-menopausal female with a Christian license to Meddle and Bother.People. Watching one of those women reading the Gospel with that determined glazed-look in her eyes is reminiscent of the original Curse of the Body Snatchers the way those folks looked right after they came out of their Pods.

I think Sign is better off with his 28-week Program to a Toned Soul.

Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915

 - Posted      Profile for Presleyterian     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
tomb wrote: And there is nothing scarier than a post-menopausal female with a Christian license to Meddle and Bother.People.
Oh, yes there is. Try a post-menopausal female with a Christian license to Meddle and Bother.People who's discovered The Goddess Sophia and Liturgical Dance. My denomination is lousy with 'em. What ever happened to wholesome mid-life pursuits like a raging Miltown addiction and shtupping busboys at the country club? Please don't tell me that all the future holds for me are small groups and multiple layers of pastel chiffon.

[ 05. November 2003, 04:41: Message edited by: Presleyterian ]

Posts: 2450 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
tomb
Shipmate
# 174

 - Posted      Profile for tomb   Author's homepage   Email tomb   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, Presley, that all depends on whether they are imprudent enough to wear danskins under all that chiffon. There is a certain ineffable quality that might easily be "spiritual" when they're in the midst of enacting the Fleshpots of Egypt. A certain sense of mystery. A wish that your optometrist had corrected your vision to 20/10. I certainly find it eleva..., er, inspiring.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

 - Posted      Profile for Tortuf   Author's homepage   Email Tortuf   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Tomb, I have started to post in response to you a couple of times now. There is just nothing I can write that won't involve a pun about you and your organ and chiffon.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
Please don't tell me that all the future holds for me are small groups and multiple layers of pastel chiffon.

Now, Dear, multiple layers of pastel chiffon worked beautifully for HMQETQM and I'm sure they'll work beautifully for you. If your bank lets you run up a five million pound overdraft.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

 - Posted      Profile for Sine Nomine*   Email Sine Nomine*       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
There is just nothing I can write that won't involve a pun about you and your organ and chiffon.

I can.

See above.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
tomb
Shipmate
# 174

 - Posted      Profile for tomb   Author's homepage   Email tomb   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Tomb, I have started to post in response to you a couple of times now. There is just nothing I can write that won't involve a pun about you and your organ and chiffon.

Well, I appreciate that, Tortuf, bein's as how you come from a part of the country where your mama unquestionably told you about not saying anything if you couldn't say something nice about someone.

Bless your heart.

Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by paigeb:
And why, you may well ask, has Paige got her knickers in a twist about this? Because two weeks ago, I was asked to share my spiritual journey for the last year with my 3rd-year EFM class. That journey has been, and continues to be, a very rocky one---and when I was talking about it, I burst into tears in front of my classmates.

And now I have to face the fact that my honest emotional outburst could very likely be fodder for fun and derision by people I ought to be able to trust. Just like the people in your group ought to be able to say what they need or want to say without having to worry that their most intimate thoughts and feelings will be posted on a fucking international discussion board. [Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

Oh, poor you. My heart bleeds.

I recently finished teaching an adult confirmation class which ran concurrently with a class for the Already Anglicanized taught by our rector. We decided to put the two classes together for the last night and have them write a brief statement about why they are Episcopalians and/or why they are at our parish and share with a small group. But first we figured we'd better be willing to answer that question ourselves.

I didn't prepare at all for this - stupid me, I know - because I figured I could reel off an answer to the question of why I'm an Episcopalian in my sleep. The rector went first, and while he was speaking I realized that I'd better think fast and get ready to give a real answer, and not my canned spiel. So I made a couple of notes while he was still talking, notes I didn't look at once while I spoke for several minutes straight from my heart with tears in my voice almost the entire time. In front of about 40 people, some of whom are very dear to me and some of whom I barely know.

I almost never speak straight from my heart, and certainly had never done so in front of 40 people. And I cringed for a week every time I thought about this little episode. But it was a good thing to do, and I really learned something. The responses I got were heartwarming, especially the one from one of our fish fork and fine linen Episcopalians, a woman with whom I never expected to have a real conversation, who talked to me as a human being for the first time in the ten years I've known her.

The point of this story? If someone who was there that night lampooned me on this thread for being maudlin, I wouldn't blame them at all. I was maudlin. I put my insides on display in front of a roomful of people in a way that could make tap dancing in my underwear on the table in front of them look tasteful. Everyone who spoke to me about it afterward was naturally very wonderful, but if four or five of them rolled their eyes when I wasn't looking and thought, "Good grief, when is this woman going to get a grip?" I had it coming.

Why, Paige, would it be such a big deal if people made fun of you for crying? Would it make what you said less valid, less meaningful? Would it take anything at all away from your spiritual journey and its importance to you?

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools