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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: A small group experience in spiritual formation
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I would hope Sine would not be cowed into discontinuing his commentary (not that he shows any signs thereof).
While I am unlikely to be going to any Christian group (for which, did I believe in the Lord, I would be inclined to praise Him), there are plenty of other fora in which people try, excruciatingly, to articulate some deeper sense of Who and Why. Everything from Management Away Days to Jungian Dream Groups: been there, identify with Sine...
For the other thing is that I too am cursed with seeing the funny side. In all and every therapy/sharing/whatever situation, the therapist/leader/enabler will at some point lean over and say 'you're using humour as a defense mechanism'. And I will lean back and reply 'I am sorry; I suffer from two dreadful conditions, Wit and Poetry. It's innate: I can't help it. So pity me.'
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
Sine, you know my thoughts on all this. You keep going. And keep being as honest as you can be. And keep coming back here and blowing off steam, and giving us a laugh ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
(At last, someone's smacked you down for Not.Being.Christian™. It's like a milestone, the passing of which marks you out as a true denizen of Hell. In a good way ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Paige
Shipmate
# 2261
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Posted
Sine---first of all, there was not one thing in my post to you that gave any hint that I know your personal situation. You are the one who has now made that public knowledge. So I think YOU owe ME an apology. (FTR, I would have been just as offended if you lived in Canberra or Timbuktu.)
Did you, or did you not, promise to keep what goes on in that group confidential? If you didn't, then I WILL apologize to you.
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Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection
Posts: 886 | From: Sweet Tea Land, USA | Registered: Jan 2002
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
Sine babe, I don't wanna know about Smiley Boy and Softball Girl. I wanna hear about Sleazy Sexual Explorer. Has he put the hard word on you yet or wot?
How does one convey with taste, propriety and subtlety en passant in sharing one's spiritual experience that not only are you not attracted to the Sleazy Sexual Explorers of the world, but you also wouldn't want to stick a broom up them in dark closet.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
Oh, something like "Through God's grace, I have learned to live with my herpes" should take care of it, I would think.
Of course that runs the risk that the following Sunday at the coffee hour everyone backs away from you like you're a leper. But, frankly, that would be a good test of the confidentiality of the group experience.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Oh, something like "Through God's grace, I have learned to live with my herpes" should take care of it, I would think.
Of course that runs the risk that the following Sunday at the coffee hour everyone backs away from you like you're a leper. But, frankly, that would be a good test of the confidentiality of the group experience.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Nice idea
And this?
quote:
Of course that runs the risk that the following Sunday at the coffee hour everyone backs away from you like you're a leper.
Is there a problem with this happening?
Sarkycow
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Talitha:
...
I recently went to the first meeting of an Alpha course...
If it weren't for me they could have got on with nodding their heads and repeating that Jesus was God, in peace.
I decided I wasn't getting anywhere, and haven't been back.
Anyway, my question, after that longish preamble, is: do you think I *should* go back anyway, and be brutally honest or make things up or both, and unsettle the complacent paste-on faces?
Slight tangent: Before the course started, someone from the church I used to go to actually told me that I ought *not* to go to the Alpha course, because I express doubts, and other Christians might be deconverted by exposure to me and my doubts. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
I suspect that a serious thread in Purgatory should be the home of this...
I'm on about the eleventh cycle of Alpha - I took it once, it was good for me, then I've been back as group leader, a cook, musician's assistant, and whatever, not all at the same time.
I'm saddened by what your church is doing to/with the Alpha materials. It's true that the course is focused on people who haven't seriously thought about these topics.
But, as a sometime small group leader, I can say that I've much preferred the more meaty discussions. I guess my kinds of questions
(sample: "Why have you never been angry with God?") aren't all that common.
Actually, it was interesting - that question scared a couple of people right out of the course. I guess they wanted the "nodding the heads" kind of pseudo-discussion.
As far as approach to Alpha (and after-Alpha) goes, I've rarely sought a specific answer in discussion. If the discussion wanders off the general topic of spirituality/philosophy (what is the nature, origin, and purpose of the Universe and what is my role in that?) I'll pull it back. But I'm pleased when actual discussion happens.
A fair number of people arrive at Alpha from whatever background having not inspected what they do believe - if they get a chance to clarify to themselves their own position, that's wonderful. For many people, it's an opportunity to do things that churches don't normally do - talk, experience prayer, and so on.
One of my best moments in Alpha (or post-Alpha) experience was with a group that included someone who had a very hard time with churches; and her background included a relative with improbable opinions. We were able to help her over that and help her find a church -- not the sponsoring church -- that she likes.
BTW, I've done Alpha in Anglican, United Church of Canada, and Wesleyan churches, about five different churches (parishes) all told.
Oh - be brutally honest. It sounds like these people need a spiritual enema. They'll either get real or kick you out. Either way, no loss.
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tomb:
Well, Laura, your EFM groups are sure a lot different from the ones around here. We have a disproportionate percentage of middle-aged housewives who "do" EFM and suddenly discover a Call to the perpetual diaconate.
And there is nothing scarier than a post-menopausal female with a Christian license to Meddle and Bother.People. Watching one of those women reading the Gospel with that determined glazed-look in her eyes is reminiscent of the original Curse of the Body Snatchers the way those folks looked right after they came out of their Pods.
Tomb,
This is extremely frightening. Is a group of chiffon-wearing deacons going to appear in the night and take all of my Jones New York suits, black sweaters and peg-leg Levis?
Apropos of your organ, I remember a lovely article written about the refurbishment of the organ at a parish I used to attend, which spoke eloquently of "[the very gay organist]'s magnificent organ". Couldn't believe this had slipped past the editorial staff.
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Paige
Shipmate
# 2261
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Posted
I want to apologize profusely to Sine, and to the rest of you. Whatever my feelings about the issue, I should have raised them in a constructive way and not attacked a fellow shipmate. I am deeply embarrassed by my action.
I am a piss-poor example of a Christian on a GOOD day---yesterday was not a good day. Part of the reason my spiritual journey has been so hard is because of my temper. I know it isn't very hellish, but I would appreciate it if you would pray for me. I'm going to take a little break from posting until I can learn to engage my brain (and my heart) before I start typing.
Peace,
Paige
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Sister Jackhammer of Quiet Reflection
Posts: 886 | From: Sweet Tea Land, USA | Registered: Jan 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Well, dang. Nothing to mock there.
Paige: ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
....Apropos of your organ, I remember a lovely article written about the refurbishment of the organ at a parish I used to attend, which spoke eloquently of "[the very gay organist]'s magnificent organ". Couldn't believe this had slipped past the editorial staff.
Well, perhaps they had first-hand experience?
So the speak.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
I appreciate and accept your apology, Paige. Allow me to apologize also. I over-reacted in my response. You made some valid points. Please do not feel you must take a break from posting on my account.
Peace,
Sine Nomine
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
Excuse me, make way. When you're over the love-in:
Henry Troup's enigmatic comment:
quote:
I guess my kinds of questions
(sample: "Why have you never been angry with God?") aren't all that common.
requires further scrutiny.
I have to ask a few questions before I decide whether it is necessary to heap scorn on you or not:
What is the context of this question? Did someone actually say they had never been angry with God?
And if someone says 'I have never been angry with X', it usually means 'X has never given me cause to be angry', making the question rather superfluous. Except of course if it is one of those wannabe-provocative pop psychology ones that I... love to death. In which case, start as you mean to continue, and ask directly.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251
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Posted
Drat you, Coot and Henry Troup. The more I think about "Why have you never been angry with God?" the worse it gets.
Rhetorical flourish Punctuation
"Why - have you never been angry with God?"
Divine Tantrum Buddy
"Why have you never been angry, with God?"
Hidden context
[Everyone gets angry with God. What's wrong with you?]
It's a classic leading question of the "When did you stop beating your wife?" variety
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2^8, eight bits to a byte
Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
Masterful analysis, Ms Seraphim. You know, I can hear all the different voice inflections in my head too now!
[Edit: that's 'head' not 'had' which is the short way I refer to my haddock. But sometimes I hear the voices there too]
[ 06. November 2003, 05:01: Message edited by: The Coot (Icarus) ]
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Coot (Icarus):
[Edit: that's 'head' not 'had' which is the short way I refer to my haddock. But sometimes I hear the voices there too]
Either way, I now plan to pose the Troup Conundrum to the St Frank's RCIA group. Watch this space for the results.
[ 06. November 2003, 05:13: Message edited by: Duo Seraphim ]
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2^8, eight bits to a byte
Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Coot (Icarus):
...Did someone actually say they had never been angry with God?
And if someone says 'I have never been angry with X', it usually means 'X has never given me cause to be angry', making the question rather superfluous. ...
It was indeed in a discussion where someone had said something rather convoluted about situation X would have made him angry, but of course it was God's Will™ -- which led to the question. I don't know that it was totally helpful, it also wasn't totally useless in context. My point was that honesty in our relationship with God can include sometimes being angry.
There's a Jewish (hmmm word fails me) tradition/custom/ritual in extremis of "Trying God" - holding a formal rabbinical trial of God on the charge of breaking His own Law. Nearly always, God is convicted in these.
A writer of my acquaintance, Phyllis Gotlieb, told of asking her rabbi how you go about this. He gave her the details of how many rabbis, and asked who she was thinking of, she named some famous dead rabbis -- and he replied "Oh, you're writing a fantasy." I got the impression he was a) perfectly willing to consider doing this and b) perhaps disappointed not to get a chance.
It's certainly a different thing from sitting around saying "...everything is just peachy."
[ 06. November 2003, 14:05: Message edited by: Henry Troup ]
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Talitha
Shipmate
# 5085
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Posted
Wow, Henry, I wish I'd been to your Alpha course instead. I suppose Alpha is a pretty loose framework, and a church can do what it likes with it, for good or for ill.
I guess I should go back...
[ 06. November 2003, 15:35: Message edited by: Talitha ]
Posts: 554 | From: Cambridge, UK | Registered: Oct 2003
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Lady R of Ashwood
Shipmate
# 4788
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Posted
quote:
This was a bit more what I had in mind.
Oooh - an Anorexic having an Ecstacy - well why didnt you say Sine, I could have given you tips.
Hurrah for Nuns ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) .
[Not sure if I have mastered inserting quotes - we shall see]
{No you haven't go back to quote school.}
[ 08. November 2003, 12:46: Message edited by: Nightlamp ]
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Are you kidding? Fencing. Fighting. Torture. Rev***e. Giants. Monsters. Chases. Escapes. True love. Miracles.
Posts: 420 | From: Glasgow | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
There you go, Lady R, reminding me that I've got to get my book out and work hard on this coming week's lesson. I've been reading it every day at lunch at work. This coven stuff really is scary.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
So what happened this week?
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738
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Posted
Sine I love this thread. Three cheers for you and may your flippancy never grow less.
I would like to know if your group has Open Prayer and if so, do you contribute? Or do you stare at the floor feeling horribly embarrassed? My church, including a study group I attend from time to time, is very hot on extempore prayer and I get funny looks when I say I don't do it. (I might open my mouth but nothing would come out. Too embarrassing, too private, too personal, also I would want to laugh at the wrong moments).
So, how do you deal with Prayer at your group? Something tells me you're not a 'really just, Lord' person. Maybe you have some tips for me? Some useful one-liners to offer next time I am in an Awkward Group Prayer Situation? Do share.
Boopy
Posts: 1170 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
Here you go Boopy. In a spirit of Christian Love™ , I offer you this prayer. Feel free to steal it and use it as you wish:
quote:
Loving Lord Jesus,
I really just wanna thank you for such a *lovely day/wonderful group time/special bunch of people. Lord, you really have just *provided greatly for us/moved mightily here, and I just really wanna *thank/praise you for that. I wanna really just *praise/lift up your name Lord, because you are a mighty Lord, and you do mighty works in our lives. Thank you Lord Jesus. Amen.
* Delete as appropriate.
Sarkycow
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
I came home Monday night and with the horror fresh upon me typed madly for twenty minutes and then managed to lose it. Let me see if I can recapture the feeling…
I was somewhat alarmed when I saw a box of Kleenex™ on the table when I arrived. I immediately thought of funeral home parlors and therapist’s offices (so I’ve been told). Fortunately it was just because the rector had a cold, but still, it was an ominous sign.
Oh my. Well…we didn’t finish with everyone’s spiritual journey the week before so we had three to go, and they were doozies.
My friend, who joined the group late, went first. It was WAY too much info considering a couple of little bombshells he dropped about his mother and his wife. The problem being that I socialize with him and his wife, and am always invited over when his mom and dad are in town. I’m never going to be able to look either of them straight in the eye again. The gratuitous bits of information weren’t necessary for the overall effect of the story. I could have gone my entire life quite happily without knowing that his mother had an affair with his dad’s cousin. Moi certainly didn’t mention a little slip or two when I told my spiritual journey. I think a nice generic “our relationship has had its ups and downs like everyone’s has” is more than sufficient for people you’ve only been around a month or so. Gut spilling is quite over-rated as far as I’m concerned. What was he thinking?
But everyone else held up cards with 9.5 on them when it was time to be affirming. Sine, however, stared at the table and remained silent.
It went downhill from there.
Next up was a woman who hereafter shall be known at “Ms Mystical”. Although raised as a conventional Missouri Synod Lutheran (oxymoron?), she has developed a strong devotion to the BVM, doubtlessly from working for some years at a Sisters of Charity hospital. Ms Mystical had a Roman Catholic friend at the hospital who went with her to some place in the former Jugoslavia (Croatia?) where the BVM apparently is hanging out on a regular basis these days. (Sorry to be a bad reporter. I should have taken notes, but was too busy staring at the tabletop.) Apparently at this village if you stare at the sun, it whirls around and streamers of color shoot out of it. There were no sendings while she was there but her silver rosary turned gold, which apparently is a fairly common miracle in those parts. As proof she passed her rosary around so we could see it. “Feel the power”, as it were. I refrained from saying that I, too, was familiar with that miracle from my own silver. But at my house we refer to it as “tarnish”.
Everyone else was affirming, but the cat had Sine’s tongue.
The last spiritual journey was so agonizing I was getting ready to pass the Kleenex™ around. Whoa! So dreadful I won’t even go into it except to say it involved suicide, death of loved ones from alcoholism, Roman Catholic grandmothers from Hell, and deep bouts of depression. All the while, I’m trying to remember the woman’s name. What ever happened to starting out with “What’s your sign?”
The affirmation was deafening. Sine was beyond speech. All I could think of to say was “I’m surprised you’re still alive”, but I didn’t think that would go over very well.
Then, to finish we stood and joined hands. The rector said we were going to do “sentence prayers”, a concept with which Sine was unfamiliar. Apparently you just offer up to God whatever thought crosses you little pea brain, instead of reading reliable, decent, authorized, prayers from the BCP.
Everyone offered up deep, warm thots, except Sine who…you guessed it…remained silent.
Next week we will discuss coven, I mean covenant, formation.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Jeez, you poor bastard. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Duo Seraphim*
Sea lawyer
# 3251
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Everyone offered up deep, warm thots, except Sine who…you guessed it…remained silent.
Next week we will discuss coven, I mean covenant, formation.
"Coven" was right the first time. I admire your self-restraint, Sine. My sentence prayer would probably have featured the words "deliverance" and "escape".
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2^8, eight bits to a byte
Posts: 3967 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Sine, I'm enjoying this thread immensely and making mental notes of things I want to avoid when I start mentoring a new EFM group in January.
Of all the outrageous things I've read here, this is one I can't let pass without comment.
quote:
But everyone else held up cards with 9.5 on them when it was time to be affirming.
You really are kidding here, aren't you? Because I have a big problem with this whole affirmation thing. If people are going to "share" or spill their guts, or whatever, they shouldn't be subjected to any kind of rating or -- what I assume you meant -- laying on of platitudes. Even if you aren't really holding up cards,Olympics-style, (forgive me for being thick, but, Jesus! you are kidding, aren't you?)it seems dangerous to set up any kind of dynamic where the participants are looking for (or even competing for) public sympathy. These biographies should be followed by a moment of quiet and then a "thank you." The best form of affirmation, in my book, is acceptance and respect.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
The worst thing was my friend and I walked out to the parking lot together. (Actually, I was power-walking as fast as I could.) I could tell he was waiting for a postive, affirmative comment.
I failed him totally. Not a word would come that I could repeat out loud. Just a fake, overly cheerful "Have a nice week. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) "
Sine slams car door. Hits automatic door locks, and screeches out of the parking lot, burning rubber.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Well, giving and receiving comfort is certainly appropriate between friends, but there's something about this little scenario that troubles me. I am wondering if that family drama is something he had been desperate to talk to you about... in which case, he shouldn't have used a group situation to unburden himself.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
But everyone else held up cards with 9.5 on them when it was time to be affirming.
You really are kidding here, aren't you? Because I have a big problem with this whole affirmation thing.
No, Mamacita, I am not kidding. The cards, of course, are metaphorical, but present none the less. The "Rules in the Book" say after every journey is shared, allow two minutes (how did they arrive at two minutes?) for "affirmative comments". It was made quite clear that they had to be "affirmative".
No "Gracious me, you're nutty as a fruitcake, aren't you?" allowed.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
I am wondering if that family drama is something he had been desperate to talk to you about...
Actually, that thought crossed my mind. Had it been just the two of us down at the local Sports Bar I would have known what to say.
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
Thank-you, Brother Wally.
Bosnia-Herzegovina, of course. Not Croatia.
Silly me, I'm always confusing those Baltic mini-states, geography not being my strong suit.
...uh, Balkan.
Whatever.
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I came home Monday night and with the horror fresh upon me typed madly for twenty minutes and then managed to lose it. Let me see if I can recapture the feeling…
...
Next week we will discuss coven, I mean covenant, formation.
I think (honestly) that it was a Good Thing™--call it a gift from God--that the original scribblings from Monday were lost. By thinking about this for a few days, you have had a chance to filter through this a bit, editing out the unnecessary details.
What are the qualifications for your rector to lead group therapy? That is what she is doing. If she is not trained in how to facillitate a threapy group, there could be some nasty results. (You still have my PM about a weekend I was on back during my previous life, don't you?) Actually, I think you are smart enough not to become too emmeshed in this group's illness. Unfortunately it sounds like everyone else has passed by the sign that reads "Abandon hope all ye who enter here" (or whatever it reads!)
At what point do you stand up among the broken pin ball machines and start screaming "We're not goin' to take it!"
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
(You still have my PM about a weekend I was on back during my previous life, don't you?)
No. I trash all of your PMs immediately upon reading.
I keep all (both) of Dyfrig's, though.
You do raise an interesting question however. The answer is "I have no idea." I assume she had counseling 101 in seminary. She is an excellent listener, as I have cause to know. And her advice to me in one on one situations has always been helpful.
But, yes, considering a big deal was made of the fact that this was not supposed to be group therapy, we do seem to be teetering on the edge of it sometimes.
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Told ya so, Sine.
And now your rector's cooked herself up the problem of a small intimate spiritually superior ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) group within the larger congregation. What's she going to do about the other folks? What's going to happen with the relationship between the Parfait Coven and the ordinary joes?
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
At what point do you stand up among the broken pin ball machines and start screaming "We're not goin' to take it!"
BTW, in case anyone found this sentence a bit puzzling, Mr. Successor is making a reference to the Stonewall Riots. Unfortunately, I don't carry a large handbag to class, although I do carry a bookbag with my textbook, the BCP, and the Oxford annotated NRSV, with which I could smack someone.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
What's going to happen with the relationship between the Parfait Coven and the ordinary joes?
Actually we've got two groups going. But the other one is moderated by a seminarian, and therefore can't be as spiritual as we are.
By reading ahead (doubtlessly a no-no) in the book, I'm under the impression we're supposed to be leaven in the congregation. An example to which all can aspire. And we will, of course, be called to a life of Christian service, which I do hope doesn't include the Building & Grounds Committee, since I hate pulling weeds.
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
No you're not. Or rather, you may be leaven, Sine: a little one-celled saint amidst the dough, but the group as a whole will be cliquey and holier-than-thou. The rest of the congregation will, at best, get bored with you-all fast.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Jesus. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
This has almost ceased being amusing and has started being scary. Kudos for maintaining your sanity.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
the group as a whole will be cliquey and holier-than-thou. The rest of the congregation will, at best, get bored with you-all fast.
I suspect the rest of the congo has already forgotten the groups exist.
But one of the things I'm pondering for next week when we define the boundaries of the coven is how, in fact, does that translate into Christian service? We're supposed to support and love (agape, please!) each other in the group. I'm thinking that doesn't mean much unless we take on some kind of "works". Be it working the parking lot on NFL game days, or providing food for Hospitality after the service, or (shudder) pulling weeds in the flower beds, or some kind of little something that serves the community as a whole, however paltry it may seem.
It's hard, I think, to see the outside world when you're meeting in a basement conference room with the door closed and lit candles on the table.
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda Rose of Sharon:
This has almost ceased being amusing and has started being scary.
Nah, it just seems like a roomful of people, several of whom are there for what I perceive to be the wrong reasons. (But I can't see into their hearts, so what do I know? Nothing.)
I am most taken by the woman whose baby daughter almost died. I've never had any interaction with her before. But she seems to have been strangely moved by her experience and trying to make sense of it. She is not glib at all; quiet, and quite reserved. But wanting to...I don't know what to say exactly...but I sense the same suspicious, tentative yearning I feel inside of me.
We shall see.
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
One thing for certain, Sine. You'll be expected to increase your pledge.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Alt Wally
Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245
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Posted
quote:
BTW, in case anyone found this sentence a bit puzzling
I thought this was in reference to the song by 1980's hair metal band Twisted Sister. I'm serious too.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
I thought this was in reference to the song by 1980's hair metal band Twisted Sister. I'm serious too.
So did I Wally. Apparently we are not old, gay, or informed enough.
However, I did get a really cool mental image of Sine sporting mountains of curly blond hair, more makeup than a two-bit whore, and studded leather fingerless gloves. In my mind's eye, he jumped up on the table in the church basement, kicked over the Kleenex and candles, then belted out a fabulous impression of Dee Snyder. The group only gave him a 3.5 (except for the Croatian judge, who gave him a 10).
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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kentishmaid
Shipmate
# 4767
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Posted
I'm going to display my woeful ignorance here, but, Dee Snyder?
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"Who'll be the lady, who'll be the lord, when we are ruled by the love of one another?"
Posts: 2063 | From: Huddersfield | Registered: Jul 2003
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Alt Wally
Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245
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Posted
Here's Dee in all his former glory kentishmaid - BandHunt.
That was a good trip back Scot. Now as Christopher Walken as Bruce Dickinson said, "I gotta have more cowbell".
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kentishmaid
Shipmate
# 4767
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Posted
Hmm. Deelightful, I'm sure.
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"Who'll be the lady, who'll be the lord, when we are ruled by the love of one another?"
Posts: 2063 | From: Huddersfield | Registered: Jul 2003
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
I thought this was in reference to the song by 1980's hair metal band Twisted Sister. I'm serious too.
So did I Wally. Apparently we are not old, gay, or informed enough.
However, I did get a really cool mental image of Sine sporting mountains of curly blond hair, more makeup than a two-bit whore, and studded leather fingerless gloves. In my mind's eye, he jumped up on the table in the church basement, kicked over the Kleenex and candles, then belted out a fabulous impression of Dee Snyder. The group only gave him a 3.5 (except for the Croatian judge, who gave him a 10).
Two against one. I must be wrong. But then my musical development stopped somewhere around 1980, so what do I know.
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