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Source: (consider it) Thread: Heaven: What's strange about the British?
Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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I can assure you I am being playful not vindictive. ( Well I was - the funs suddenly faded )

What have I said that could offend?

If its about Manchester Its common knowledge that Liverpool and Manchester have local rivalry (its not really as bad as you think) and as for the other points I've made I am just setting the facts straight as I see them.

to borrow from AliG

I sit because I is scouse?
Or is it because I is 1/2 welsh?
or is it because I is new ... why pick on me?

[Confused] [Confused] [Eek!] [Eek!]

Aliciaa - feeling victimised...
(why single me out?)

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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ce
Shipmate
# 1957

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I thought that all that "Murkeyside Contra Mundi" crap finally died a death after Deggsy fell off his perch and decided to become a rich bastard!
Perhaps you should tell the owners of this splendid 1812 Lancashire Map that it's a myth?
Oh and Liverpool is really a hamlet in the Hundred of West Derby.
It is possible to observe change without forgetting history, even though I still live in the County Of Middlesex.

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ce

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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personally I think this kind of stuff is a personal attack rather than anything I said

oh well, God bless you all, I forgive you

Alicia turns the other cheek ( since other people round here seem to have no sense of humour and are obviously prejujiced against the beautiful city where I live )

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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quote:
Originally posted by Aliciaa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[qb] Fact: Liverpool is in Lancashire, whether other Lancastrians want it or not.


this is more of a personal attack than anything I said.

no dont defend your city Aliciaa - youre new round here.

[ 09. July 2004, 10:37: Message edited by: Aliciaa ]

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Stoo

Mighty Pirate
# 254

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quote:
Originally posted by Aliciaa:
I can assure you I am being playful not vindictive. ( Well I was - the funs suddenly faded )

What have I said that could offend?
...

Aliciaa - feeling victimised...
(why single me out?)

[Tricorne Hat on]

Aliciaa,

In practically every post of yours on this thread, you have made a swipe at Karl. This may well be meant humourously, but it is difficult to tell this in a text-based medium. It reads like you have a problem with Karl. It would be a good idea to temper the way you write your posts so that you do not make personal remarks about other posters.

Karl's post that you quoted is not a personal attack. It says nothing about you. It states (rightly or wrongly) that Liverpool is in Lancashire, and that the people of Lancashire are unable to eject it, should they so wish. (Some would wish to, others would not).

If you wish to discuss this further, so as not to derail this thread, the Styx would be the place to take it.

If you wish to take issue with Karl's posts, then Hell is the place for that. Do make sure you have a look around at some "calling to hell" threads there first, so you know what you would be getting yourself into.

[Tricorne Hat off]

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ce
Shipmate
# 1957

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It was not a a personal attack, I assumed that you were setting up a traditional regional stereotype as others in this thread have.
quote:
Alicia turns the other cheek ( since other people round here seem to have no sense of humour and are obviously prejujiced against the beautiful city where I live )
You seem to have a bit of humour impairment as far as Liverpool is concerned.
Where do I say that I am prejudiced against Liverpool (although I wouldn't describe any major UK city as "beautiful"). In the 80's I actually spent a good part of three years trying to get a range of cultural projects going there and like the place. It's a pity that the Garden Festival took funding priority.

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ce

Posts: 376 | From: Middlesex, U.K. | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
MrPiccolo

Ship's Yorkie Bar
# 7103

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quote:
Originally posted by Aliciaa:
quote:
Originally posted by Aliciaa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[qb] Fact: Liverpool is in Lancashire, whether other Lancastrians want it or not.

this is more of a personal attack than anything I said.

no dont defend your city Aliciaa - youre new round here.

Hi Aliciaa,
You are right to say that the above quote from KLB borders on being a personal attack: however, going back to Stoo's hosting comment, your reply to KLB saying he was obessed with tradition was also a personal attack!

(I never thought as a neutral yorkshireman(tm) [Biased] i would be agreeing with a Lancastrian, but there you go..SOF is a strange place [Roll Eyes] [Biased] )

I think what Stoo was trying to say is that here on the "nice" SOF boards it is fair game to attack someone's argument or facts, but it is not ok to stray into the area of trading personal insults.
Personal attacks can only legitimately be made in Hell [Biased]

Always attack the argument, not the author.
(It's a rule of thumb that works well round here; and yes, it took me a long while to learn it myself [Hot and Hormonal] )
I hope you do make many more posts on SOF, Aliciaa, since I for one have found your posts helpful and interesting [Smile]
I hope this clarifies things a bit.. [Cool]

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"..Love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah." Jeff Buckley, quoting Leonard Cohen.

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ce
Shipmate
# 1957

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For "major city" read "major industrial city".
At least Liverpool has a proper water-front which is more than you can say for Manchester.

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ce

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Stoo

Mighty Pirate
# 254

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[Tricorne Hat on]

And we'll leave the derailment there then!

Ok... on with the strangeness of us Brits!

[Tricorne Hat off]

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aliciaa:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[qb] That scousers don't feel worthy to be called Lancastrians is their self-esteem problem.

and this is not a swipe at me?

If your gonna criticise please do it fairly... I feel like Ive been singled out over others who are doing the same thing.

in any event I WAS just having fun just like I thought Karl was, to my mind it was just friendly banter, it only became serious when I alone was criticised.

I dont want to take any argument to hell because it only became an argument once you pointed it out. If that happens over something so trivial then I will just leave the boards.

but on the other hand I maintain that since other people dont live here what right do they have to tell me where I live?

and I tried to keep it on topic by saying that this is actually what is strange about the British, some of them live in the past and try to insist that other people see everything the same way. I dont see it that way, I live in Merseyside, the year is 2004 not 1971 or 1892, have we established that yet or will you allow other people and your critisism of one newbie to derail the discussion?

To anyone that has been offended by anything that I have said - I apologise unreservedly that was not my intention and I thought we were having fun.

However I am now unsure as to wether as a scouser with "low self esteem" who does not live in the county that she thinks she does and whos city has been described in other threads as a city of thieves and vagabonds and also as a newbie who simply hasnt followed the rules whilst others so impeccably have, well am I welcome here or not, because I am now feeling quite emotional and I dont know what to think.

[Waterworks]

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Stoo

Mighty Pirate
# 254

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[Tricorne Hat on]

Questions about Hosts judgement calls belongs in the Styx, not on this thread. If you post your questions there, I, or an admin, will come and answer them. (Better be quick though... I'm off for the weekend in 45 minutes)

Don't derail this thread any longer.

[Tricorne Hat off]

[ 09. July 2004, 11:15: Message edited by: Stoo ]

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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oh, thank you for your post Mr Picollo, I think that was "cross posting" is it called? I must have been typing my last post at the same time.

Im very sensitive person by the way, and at the moment I am deeply hurt and I need a hug.

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Jen.

Godless Liberal
# 3131

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Try all saints. thats huggy.

J

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Was Jenny Ann, but fancied being more minimal.

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MrPiccolo

Ship's Yorkie Bar
# 7103

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Aliciaa,
please, don't feel singled out! [Tear]
Let me re-iterate that, all Stoo was trying to do was explain the background rules by which the SOF operates; and which applies to all users .

It can take a while for newbies to grow accustomed to the various board "styles" (as i said in my own previous post [Frown] ); but after you have gone through that steep learning curve, it does become easier, honest [Biased] .

And yes, you're right, KLB should also receive a gentle warning from a host,(IMHO), for his provocative comments to you..

Take care
Ian.

--------------------
"..Love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah." Jeff Buckley, quoting Leonard Cohen.

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MrPiccolo

Ship's Yorkie Bar
# 7103

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Yet another cross-post above !! (Soz) [Hot and Hormonal]
Yes, lets all have a hug!
[Axe murder] [Angel] [Big Grin]

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"..Love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah." Jeff Buckley, quoting Leonard Cohen.

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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*hugs* go out to all
and [Smile] a smile for Mr Piccolo
(and a special extra hug for Karl) [Smile]

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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if at all possible can we then move on ?

Us Brits really are strange folk arent we? lol

[Angel]

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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MrPiccolo

Ship's Yorkie Bar
# 7103

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That's another strange thing about the British,
...We're so polite it's unbelievable! [Biased] [Killing me]

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"..Love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah." Jeff Buckley, quoting Leonard Cohen.

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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Another strange thing about the Brits: their apologies often take longer than the actual disagreement...

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917

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I went to a writer's workshop run by David Gerrold once. As an American, he observed how "terribly, terribly polite" the English seemed in British made dramas. We went straight off after that to watch UFO, and cracked up laughing at how "terribly, terribly polite" the Moonbase team were.

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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

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MrPiccolo

Ship's Yorkie Bar
# 7103

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Another strange thing about the Brits: their apologies often take longer than the actual disagreement...

I guess it's due to the fact we still need to apologise for all that "Running The Empire(tm) thing!"

i.e. (..Since we did "use to run the world before the Americans!!" as Ricky Gervais once said..)) [Razz] [Killing me]

--------------------
"..Love is not a victory march, it's a cold and broken hallelujah." Jeff Buckley, quoting Leonard Cohen.

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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917

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I think we might have been like that when we did run the Empire....

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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
Liverpool's always been different though.

It is the only city in Britain I have ever been to where random people met on the street were rude or unfriendly to me. For example I asked someone the time and they just said "fuck off" or asked someone the way to somewhere and they deliberatly misled me for a joke. That sort of thing has happened to me about 5 times in Liverpool. In Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester, Glasgow, all of which I have visited often, people seem normal and helpful and friendly to strangers.

In Sheffield they are positively affectionate - its hard to wait at a bus-stop without hearing the story of someone's life.

But in Liverpool many people seem to hear a non-Liverpool accent and immediatly get aggressive. Even people serving in shops or cafes often act in an unfriendly way that I just haven't seen elsewhere, even as nearby as Warrington, or Manchester. Or, frankly, Birkenhead. Which is by comparison a nice place.

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
I went to a writer's workshop run by David Gerrold once. As an American, he observed how "terribly, terribly polite" the English seemed in British made dramas.

That's because Americans sometimes can't tell when we are being rude. We're actually much nastier than them. But we use different signals to show it.

For example a shift into formality can signify rudeness from a Brit (or Australian, or Irish).

So an American who calls someone "Sir" or "Mr. so-and-so" might just be being polite to them. But - in certain contexts - a Brit using the same phrase might be mocking them. (Not all contexts - there are some where it is normal, but outside school or the armed forces they are now vanishingly rare)

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917

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Very true, Ken

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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
That's because Americans sometimes can't tell when we are being rude. We're actually much nastier than them. But we use different signals to show it.

For example a shift into formality can signify rudeness from a Brit (or Australian, or Irish).

So an American who calls someone "Sir" or "Mr. so-and-so" might just be being polite to them. But - in certain contexts - a Brit using the same phrase might be mocking them. (Not all contexts - there are some where it is normal, but outside school or the armed forces they are now vanishingly rare)

A sudden shift to formality can signal rudeness to Americans, too, actually, but frequently this will be accompanied by a snide or insolent tone of voice that makes the point of the shift very clear. A sudden shift to formality without such a tone of voice would tell me that the person wanted to put me at arm's length, and I would figure that I had given offense or that they had just decided they didn't like me. For instance, someone who worked for me might do this; they can't be outright rude to me, but they can put distance between us by being formal.
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
That's because Americans sometimes can't tell when we are being rude. We're actually much nastier than them. But we use different signals to show it.

For example a shift into formality can signify rudeness from a Brit (or Australian, or Irish).

I am suddenly haunted by the fear that nobody I work with actually knows when I am pissed off, and just thinks I am prone to sudden, unheralded mood swings.

So the other day when I was on a conference call with people from the US, Belgium and France, and they said something that annoyed me, I quite naturally started talking to them very, very politely, using phrases like "I can assure you" and "With the greatest respect". Now to me (and any sane person I reckon) this obviously signals the chill before the storm, look out matey another step down that road and blood will be spilled.

It suddenly and horrifyingly occurs to me that to them it might have just sounded like I was backing down, or even (gulp) being conciliatory. [Eek!]

Surely not?

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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Can't speak for anyone else, but if someone started off a sentence addressed to me "with all due respect," I'd know they were giving me the finger under the table. Nobody ever says that and means it.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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I think it was in "Yes Minister" where Humphrey, the civil servant, says, "With the greatest of respect, Minister", when he doesn't like something the MP has just decided to do, and Jim Hacker (MP) notes quietly to himself in his diary something along the lines of, "When Humphrey starts using phrases like that, I know he's really angry."
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402

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I can't understand the whole yorkshire / lancashire rivalry thing. I mean, we had a war about it, and Lancashire won, albeit with a little help from the Welsh (a lot of whom are scousers anyway).

So what are you arguing about? Lancashire is clearly better.

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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.


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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Can't speak for anyone else, but if someone started off a sentence addressed to me "with all due respect," I'd know they were giving me the finger under the table. Nobody ever says that and means it.

Phew!

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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
Liverpool's always been different though.

It is the only city in Britain I have ever been to where random people met on the street were rude or unfriendly to me. For example I asked someone the time and they just said "fuck off" or asked someone the way to somewhere and they deliberatly misled me for a joke. That sort of thing has happened to me about 5 times in Liverpool. In Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester, Glasgow, all of which I have visited often, people seem normal and helpful and friendly to strangers.

In Sheffield they are positively affectionate - its hard to wait at a bus-stop without hearing the story of someone's life.

But in Liverpool many people seem to hear a non-Liverpool accent and immediatly get aggressive. Even people serving in shops or cafes often act in an unfriendly way that I just haven't seen elsewhere, even as nearby as Warrington, or Manchester. Or, frankly, Birkenhead. Which is by comparison a nice place.

I'm sorry to hear you had a less than pleasant experience in Liverpool. I wonder if you asked yout's for direction they will fool you in any town or city in the UK, Liverpool is no exception, they are "skitting" you.

but thats kids for you.

If it was adult scousers who misled you then they are a minority, because we are mostly friendly people who will help anyone if you ask us nice.

There are those who will show you the way, take our twin cathedrals for example, where else in the UK can you find such perfect Ecunumical Unity?

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

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Ronist
Shipmate
# 5343

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I used to think it odd that Americans especially southern were still fighting the Civil War. Then on this "ship" I discovered the the Brits were still fighting the War of the Roses. It's over guys. Time to move on.
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
There are those who will show you the way, take our twin cathedrals for example, where else in the UK can you find such perfect Ecunumical Unity?
Sheffield [Big Grin]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Pegasus*
Shipmate
# 5779

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
There are those who will show you the way, take our twin cathedrals for example, where else in the UK can you find such perfect Ecunumical Unity?
Sheffield [Big Grin]
And Norwich. [Smile]

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Not a Proper Christian™

Posts: 533 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Ronist:
I used to think it odd that Americans especially southern were still fighting the Civil War. Then on this "ship" I discovered the the Brits were still fighting the War of the Roses. It's over guys. Time to move on.

Some of us are still on 1066. Or even earlier.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Sodding Romans [Mad] Coming in here and taking our jobs away and building their bloody aqueducts all over the place and telling us we need planning permission to build huts. Planting their blasted foreign fruit and veg everywhere and introducing CATS. They can't even be bothered to learn our language, they expect us to speak theirs. Who do they think they are? Romanes Eunt Domus, that's what I say.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633

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What's odd about us?
How about gurning or shin kicking?
These links are to a site advertising a book but it does demonstrate a few other odd pastimes. I can't quite see the attraction in getting kicked. Any ideas?

Anyone fancy a Ship online gurning competition? Unfortunately I couldn't compete convincingly as I was overlooked when ugliness was being handed out. [Biased]

Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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The Romans. What have they ever done for us?

Celtic Christianity, that's what we should stick to.

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Custard
Shipmate
# 5402

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Also interesting that British attitudes to foreigners are largely conditioned by wars a long time ago.

Hence the hatred for the French, with whom we were at war (on and off) from about 1200 to about 1850. And this despite their sterling service as human shields in the last two big wars.

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blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.


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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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It all went wrong with the Synod of Whitby (c AD 600, following the Unpleasantness at Aust (no, I don't mean the motorway service area).

That pretext of "converting the heathen Anglo-Saxons" was a cover for destroying the Celtic Church.

That should stoke it up again.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Chapelhead*

Ship’s Photographer
# 1143

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It all went wrong with the Synod of Whitby (c AD 600, following the Unpleasantness at Aust (no, I don't mean the motorway service area).

That pretext of "converting the heathen Anglo-Saxons" was a cover for destroying the Celtic Church.

Surely not. The Past Times catalogue is full of it. [Biased]

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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!

Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Sodding Romans [Mad] Coming in here and taking our jobs away and building their bloody aqueducts all over the place and telling us we need planning permission to build huts.

And of course, the entire Scottish character is based on the fact that the Romans never got us, indeed built a wall to keep us out. This is why we don't have to worry about winning football matches and get on fine with the French.

Honestly I once said in a pub that the Romans didn't conquer us because they couldn't be arsed, we had nothing they wanted. I bloody nearly got lynched.

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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alicïa
Shipmate
# 7668

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quote:
Originally posted by Corfe:
What's odd about us?
How about gurning or shin kicking?

Speaking of "Strange" games.

I remember seeing on CBS news (America) (with Dan Rather [Overused] ) that over here in Britain our folks were holding the annual "worm charming" championships. [Snigger]

It involved loads of people trying to charm worms out of the ground using various techniques.

That was strange! [Smile] - and embarassing [Eek!]

I did'nt see it on TV over here in Britain but Dan was having a good old laugh about it in the States.

[Smile]

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"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." Georgia Elma Harkness

Posts: 884 | From: Where the Art is. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917

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A local village to us does worm charming - it also happens to be the home of a firm that breeds worms to put in compost bins.
Then there's welly-wanging, of course (throwing a wellington boot as far as you can).
The bog-snorkelling is, strictly speaking, in Wales.

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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633

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Cheese-rolling anyone?
Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pânts*

Ship's underwear
# 4487

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quote:
Originally posted by Corfe:
Cheese-rolling anyone?

Just down the road... great fun!! [Big Grin]

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I'm not here any more. Dial 999 to get me. (No. Please don't really. Bit you could PM me on my new number cos I never get PMs!)

Posts: 8380 | From: The Stables | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917

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Oh, and pace egging (rolling hard boiled eggs down hills at Easter time) and those madmen who run around with burning tar barrels on their heads. Some old English customs are very strange indeed.
Has anyone mentioned morris dancing yet?

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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

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quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
Oh, and pace egging (rolling hard boiled eggs down hills at Easter time)...

I grew up in northern Virginia, and we used to roll Easter eggs. I was surprised when I learned that people in other parts of the country hunted for them.

Can you tell me where in England they roll Easter eggs?

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ce
Shipmate
# 1957

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Here, Pace Eggs is some more information on the cutom.
There's loads more in google on the various customs associated with Easter (Pace) Eggs.

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ce

Posts: 376 | From: Middlesex, U.K. | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged



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