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Source: (consider it) Thread: Hell: Blasphemous desecration
Max.
Shipmate
# 5846

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Back to the OP - I emailed eBay about changing their policy concerning the Blessed Sacrament this is what I recieved back:

quote:
Hello,

Thank you for writing in to Safe Harbor with your concerns, I will be
happy to assist you.

We understand that you are upset at having seen certain Catholic items
or items related to the Pope on eBay, including item #6169851381.
Because eBay’s community is a diverse, international group of more than
135 million users with varied backgrounds and beliefs, there are times
when some items listed on eBay by sellers might be offensive to at least
some of our users somewhere in the world. At times, members may see
listings that they may consider morally wrong or objectionable. However,
even though these listings may be offensive to some, please remember
that most of the time the law does not prohibit the items.

Due to the fact that eBay’s focus is to have a free and diverse
community, we are reluctant to interfere with listings that are not
illegal. Regarding offensive items, there are many items that are
considered sacred to many people of various religions, and we sometimes
hear complaints about these items. Examples would be Catholic relics of
saints, Mormon (LDS) garments, certain Buddhist tablets, etc. However,
eBay has made the decision not to prohibit any item only on the basis of
the item being endowed with sacred properties by certain religious
groups. In general, eBay will remove items for a violation of our
Offensive Materials policy only in extreme examples in which the listing
explicitly promotes hatred, violence, or racial intolerance. However, we
do not remove religious items that are otherwise legal for sale and do
not violate any other eBay listing policy.

Please keep in mind that many of us at eBay may also share your distaste
with an item, and may not support the sale. In fact, eBay has many
Catholic employees. However, we do our best to understand and tolerate
the many viewpoints held by our worldwide community. The Eucharist is
not illegal to sell, and is generally allowed on eBay as long as the
seller does not otherwise include hateful text or images in the listing.
Although we realize that you may not agree with this decision on eBay’s
part, we hope that you can respect the diverse and open nature of eBay’s
marketplace.

We do appreciate you writing in to express your concerns.

Regards,

Birke T.
eBay Community Watch

I suggest that more people email eBay they will HAVE to change their policy because of popular demand.

-103

[Removed e-mail links.]

[ 23. April 2005, 00:44: Message edited by: RooK ]

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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638

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"Please keep in mind that many of us at eBay may also share your distaste with an item, and may not support the sale. In fact, eBay has many Catholic employees."

This sounded very personal, at least to my reading. I think this person agrees with your position and is expressing that as much as possible within job constraints.

--------------------
If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis

Posts: 14701 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266

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I don't see why they should change their policy about selling a piece of bread.

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Go Anne Go

Amazonian Wonder
# 3519

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1) Allow me to tell you that the Hosts don't like it when you tell people to e-mail companies, other people, etc en masse. I speak from experience. Learn from my experience.

2) Simply put, eBay will change their policy if it stops them making money. All you've put is that you don't like them selling such things, even though such things are not illegal. The news reports have shown that people can and will spend all kinds of stupid money on this sort of stuff - the Virgin Mary in a grilled cheese sandwich, the Pope on a chicken breast, and the like. With each new bout of publicity, eBay traffic goes up, and people start poking around. The name is known, people keep going, they make more sales, their membership increases. Publicity on this is only going to make them more money. Don't like it? Don't buy it. But if you want to keep eBay from selling it? Either e-mail the seller (who either a) didn't realize, or b) more likely couldnt' give a rats behind. Or else just ignore it into existence. But a bunch of e-mails from people trying to forbid other people making money ain't gonna fly down at eBay.

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Go Anne Go, you is the bestest shipmate evah - Kelly Alveswww.goannego.com

Posts: 2227 | From: Home of the 2004 World Series Champion Red Sox | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Go Anne Go

Amazonian Wonder
# 3519

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Hmmmm, 103 wants the royals chucked into the street because he doesn't want them treated any different to the "rest of us." Who, I guess by that implication are being chucked into the street on a regular basis?????? And aren't allowed to inherit from our parents?

And yet, at the same time, wants eBay to change its policy because a small group doesn't want something sold, despite it being perfectly legal to do so. So 103 wants to stop one of the "rest of us" from selling something because he doesnt' like it.


I smell inconsistency here.

*shakes head. So young. So well meaning. So completely unable to think for himself. So dumb.*

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Go Anne Go, you is the bestest shipmate evah - Kelly Alveswww.goannego.com

Posts: 2227 | From: Home of the 2004 World Series Champion Red Sox | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Go Anne Go

Amazonian Wonder
# 3519

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quote:
Originally posted by Back-to-Front:
"Please keep in mind that many of us at eBay may also share your distaste with an item, and may not support the sale. In fact, eBay has many Catholic employees."

This sounded very personal, at least to my reading. I think this person agrees with your position and is expressing that as much as possible within job constraints.

Nope, I think it is a well constructed marketing response. eBay has 8,100 employees. Some of those are bound to be from almost any religion you can imagine. Swap "Catholic" for "Mormon" for "Muslim" and you can make this letter respond to anyone who complains about religious artifacts being sold on eBay.

Well written, but hardly personal. Firm in their refusal to take it off the site, and yet trying not to piss off a prospective customer.

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Go Anne Go, you is the bestest shipmate evah - Kelly Alveswww.goannego.com

Posts: 2227 | From: Home of the 2004 World Series Champion Red Sox | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
(I would love to see this thread closed again!)

You are always free to stop reading it, which has the effect of closing the thread as far as you are concerned. Works for me when I don't like a thread.

On the other hand, if you continue to read it and feel compelled to respond to what you consider mistaken (or worse) beliefs and practices and points of view, then that's your personal problem, so deal with it.

Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
I'd like to ask why, if the Queen is the head of the church in the UK, nobody in the course of this surreal, meandering 17-page thread has yet objected to her on the grounds of her being a woman.
Because if Anglo-Catholics started objecting to old Queens the Catholic Movement of England would collapse.
Don't get me started about the Monarchy, I think they are sucking the money out of the good working british person. Why should they be treated any differently to any of us? It's not fair!
I personally would like to see them chucked off their throne, kicked out of their homes, their money taken from them and fairly distributed amoung the people and told to get jobs like the rest of us!

-103

Bad move Henry -- I think you just lost your only supporter. Cosmo is a monarchist.

John

Posts: 5915 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
HenryT

Canadian Anglican
# 3722

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I should support 103 out of solidarity ... so stop kicking him, already!

--------------------
"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788

Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
(I would love to see this thread closed again!)

You are always free to stop reading it, which has the effect of closing the thread as far as you are concerned. Works for me when I don't like a thread.

On the other hand, if you continue to read it and feel compelled to respond to what you consider mistaken (or worse) beliefs and practices and points of view, then that's your personal problem, so deal with it.

He did stop reading it. For about 20 seconds after he posted a apology and announced that he was withdrawing from discussion.

Then the Ship's stormtroopers hunted him down, put a gun to his head, and demanded that he post again.

[Roll Eyes]

Alternatively, he apologised and pretended to leave the thread, thinking that would stop people whaling on him for being a fuckwit. In his fuckwittery, he then returned, thinking he'd get a free pass out of the shitstorm he had raised. Sadly, the denizens are brighter than he is, and weren't fooled.

--------------------
“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
Personally I think the argument that women could be priests is quite weak since we don't see women taking that role but in the NT. I think the argument that they should be Bishops or Deacons is quite strong since a number of women seem to be taking those roles.

Er...do we see *anyone* taking the role of priest in the NT? Other than Jesus?

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18178 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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Perhaps we could change the name of this "surreal, meandering 17-page thread" to "The thread where 103 (that's One Oh Three, suckers) opines on every subject known to humankind and we all take aim with our size 15 Boots." Kinda cathartic, really.

Strangely, as a mild monarchist, he's managed to irritate me once again: I happen to think royal families, not just the Brits, have a difficult job to do, do it with the human balance of good bag and ugly, and in times of crisis - economic, military, whatever - are worth their weight in gold for their ability to lift a culture's collective and individual spirits - but even by Hell's labrynthine standards that's probably tangential.

I also happen to think that ebay's response to 103 (that's One Oh Three, suckers) was moderate and restrained. Espouse good free market and egalitarian doctrines of freedom, Mr. One Oh,

quote:
I think they are sucking the money out of the good working british person. Why should they be treated any differently to any of us? It's not fair!

then you have to wear the vicissitudes of market forces - ebay's choice to make what to some is a piece of bread (viz Nightlamp) and to others is a sign of sacred faith is a simply free market decision.

The occasional theocratic dictator has had different approaches: don't like the Monarch? Chop off her head and destroy all the monasteries in Britain. Dear Saint Oliver shared your values, 103 (that's One Oh Three, suckers). Don't like irreligious western iconaclasm and capitalism run wild? Then overthrow the government and install blessed Ayatollah Khomeni as illustrious leader.

Now if you happen in a moment of insight to install His Zappaness as world theocratic dicator and guardian of all truth, let me tell you who I will lead like a lamb to slaughter: It will be people who pontificate about the sole and exclusive truth (no tautology there) of their solepsistic religious world view, then in a moment of humanity graciously apologize and withdraw from an argument/debate, only to return with bells and smells and supercillious self-righteousness in sevenfold renewal to bleat on and on and on about all things incompatible with their world view.

Fortunately I wouldn't really lead them to a literal slaughter, because I'm going to be a benevolent theocratic dictator. [Two face] I'd just excercise free market choice and lead them to a gaol under, say, militant theocratic (Muslim or US military) management for a little bit of soul search time.

And - oh damn. As anyone who knows me IRL could attest, I'm terribly forgetful. Now where did I put the key? [Snigger]

Buddy - please don't apologize and then go on peddling the nappywearing bullshit you were peddling pre-apology. [Mad]

--------------------
shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

Posts: 18791 | From: scarily close to 40° | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Er...do we see *anyone* taking the role of priest in the NT?

No, sacrificing animals and all that seems to have been Right Out. Which is just as well since the Romans had it in for that Temple.

Presbyterpriests aren't all that bad though, when you get used to them.

Posts: 5744 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266

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I wonder what 103 would make of the ancient tradition of taking the blessed bread home to consume midweek as part of peoples personal devotions.

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

Posts: 8442 | From: Midlands | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682

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Don't know Nightlamp, but are you trying to summon up the Catholic heavy artillery with this?
quote:
I don't see why they should change their policy about selling a piece of bread.
I didn't think the thread needed much in the way of support meself.
Posts: 5744 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Don't get me started about the Monarchy

Sorry, can't let that go unanswered:

quote:
I think they are sucking the money out of the good working british person.
The good working british person is a royalist. And he has been "sithen the sege and the assaut was sessed at Troye" and Brutus founded the country.

quote:
Why should they be treated any differently to any of us?
Because kingship is instituted of God and delights the hearts of free men. Because it is right that there should be someone to receive, as well as to give, oaths of national loyalty. Because this is as fair and blessed a land as any on God's good earth, and deserves to be ruled by a King or Queen.

quote:
It's not fair!
"Not fair"? The cry of the churlish throughout the ages. You can do better.

quote:
I personally would like to see them chucked off their throne, kicked out of their homes,
Go on then. You know where Her Majesty lives, I take it?

quote:
their money taken from them and fairly distributed amoung the people
Didn't you say a while ago that you weren't a marxist?

I've got news for you, apparently you are.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't actually in favour of robbery by violence, and that your moral resentment of our gracious Sovereign has temporarily blinded you to the fact that this is what you are actually advocating.

quote:
and told to get jobs like the rest of us!
It's a cheap shot, I know, but DO you have a job? (And I don't mean a paper round).

Most countries find it useful to have a head of state - and that is, actually, a full time job, surprising as that may be to you. Now - quick multiple choice question - who do you want as our head of state:

a) The impeccably honest Mr Tony Blair;
b) The humble and honourable Mr Michael Howard;
c) Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second.

because, those are your choices. And it is, I respectfully submit, the very least taxing of all blindingly obvious, no-brainer, piss simple questions that you will be asked this year.

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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4592 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
good working british person

just the one? well, that's not so bad, is it? [Two face]


(I do like this thread, athough I have no real idea why I do so!)

--------------------
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)

Posts: 3682 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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On reflection this:

quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
It's a cheap shot, I know, but DO you have a job? (And I don't mean a paper round).

was more than a cheap shot, and was playing the man, not the ball. 103 has every right to his views whatever his employment record, and I regret and apologise for any personal disparagement.

My disparagement of 103's views on this particular issue stands, but is not meant as an attack on his views on this thread generally.

--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4592 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
I suggest that more people email eBay they will HAVE to change their policy because of popular demand.

As noted by the junior host badge wearing banshee above, you'll not be doing such suggesting on these boards. Do not use this forum as a means to recruit others for any purpose, unless you have specific authorization from the Ship's Administration.

-RooK
Hellhost

Posts: 15173 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
[...] Because kingship is instituted of God and delights the hearts of free men...

Sorry, Redcoat. This sad testimony was corrected at Yorktown in 1781.

--------------------
--Formerly: Gort--

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Leetle Masha

Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209

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Gort, that post belongs under "The World Turned Upside Down"! (Title of march played by fifes and drums of the American forces at Burgoyne's surrender, if I am not mistaken).

But we must not rub it in.... Some of my best ancestors were Redcoats and if it hadn't been for them, I wouldn't be here, and my mother wouldn't have wept for days when she was denied membership in the "Daughters of the American Revolution". At the time, the musical South Pacific, which had a song called "There is nothing like a dame", was popular, so when people tried to console my mother by telling her to join the "Colonial Dames" instead, my mother sobbed, "I'm a lady! I am not a "dame"!

See what suffering war can bring on the innocent....

[edited to change a typo that made "Revolution" read "Resolution"--see what suffering debating can bring on the innocent....]

[ 23. April 2005, 01:32: Message edited by: Leetle Masha ]

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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner

Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Go Anne Go

Amazonian Wonder
# 3519

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I thought World Turned Upside Down was a Billy Bragg song about the Diggers Rebellion?

Surely that doesn't belong here with lyrics like "the clergy dazzle us with heaven or they damn us into hell, we will not worship the god they serve, a god of greed who feeds the rich while poor men starve".

After all, I thought this was a Christian website!

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Go Anne Go, you is the bestest shipmate evah - Kelly Alveswww.goannego.com

Posts: 2227 | From: Home of the 2004 World Series Champion Red Sox | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Corpus cani

Ship's Anachronism
# 1663

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
On reflection this: >snip< was more than a cheap shot, and was playing the man, not the ball. 103 has every right to his views whatever his employment record.

Eliab is possibly missing the point - as a schoolboy, 103 (no hyphen) doesn't have an employment record and, ergo, it's somewhat presumptuous of him to be telling other people to get a job.

In the same way it sticks in the craw to hear the monarch decried as a fiscal parasite by somebody whose contribution to the economy is all in the red column - free education, free health care, free dental care, free eye tests, free prescriptions, Child Benefit, no VAT on clothes. He even qualifies for cheap bus fares! [Mad]

You soon get used to 103 (no hyphen) - he comes online, trots out some shit theory, he gets severely scorched by the rest of the board until somebody says "Take it easy, he's only young." He stamps his foot and says "'S not fair" and slams the door never to return...until...

And besides, this is Hell. Personal disparagement of the brain dead is compulsory here.
[Big Grin]
Corpus

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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.

Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scot
Deck hand
# 2095

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103, when you have become a Real Live Roman Catholic next year, will you only object to the sale of Real Live Roman Catholic Holy Knicknacks, or will you also object to the sale of Anglican Pseudo-Holy Knicknacks? But of course you've already answered - your current church is the real deal, despite what your future church might teach.

So tell me, in your bizzaro-world, is special protection given only to knicknacks from Churches That 103 Attends, or should eBay refuse to list anything that anyone thinks is extra-super special?

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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 9513 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace:
Presbyterpriests aren't all that bad though, when you get used to them.

Ooooo. Are they house-broken? Do they take up much space? And do they eat carrots?

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18178 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Sorry, Redcoat. This sad testimony was corrected at Yorktown in 1781.

Rebel Gort,

Yorktown was (much as it pains my English soul to write it) a French victory. Most of the soldiers were French, French artillerists and engineers did most of the siege work, and de Grasse’s blockade of Chesapeake bay closed off British hopes of escape or rescue. Look at the casualty figures in your link – 76 Yankees killed or wounded as against 186 Frogs. France was, at the time, a more absolute monarchy than Britain.

Cornwallis, not Burgoyne, commanded at Yorktown, and it was his second in command, O’Hara, who delivered the surrender (to the French General Rochambeau – though he diplomatically refused to accept it, indicating Washington as the beseigers’ commander).

--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

Posts: 4592 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pânts*

Ship's underwear
# 4487

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Back to the OP - I emailed eBay about changing their policy concerning the Blessed Sacrament this is what I recieved back:
...

I think that's rather a good letter / response actually.

--------------------
I'm not here any more. Dial 999 to get me. (No. Please don't really. Bit you could PM me on my new number cos I never get PMs!)

Posts: 8380 | From: The Stables | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Yes it is, but the fact remains that eBay did withdraw at least two of the wafers on offer. I suspect that they did this in order to avoid the hassle which might have occurred when the seller whose item had reached £10 million (or was it $10 million?) tried to get his money from the winning bidder!

In other words, it's all down to filthy lucre - but that's the way the world works, 103.

Ian J.

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
I suggest that more people email eBay they will HAVE to change their policy because of popular demand.

Don't you just love the phrase "popular demand"? I know I do. It sounds so energetic or something. And so right. Of course it also makes me think of torch-carrying peasants marching on the castle. Or possibly a Betty Hutton musical being held over for a second week at the Bijou. But not a lot of outraged church-going types picketing e-Bay. (How would you picket e-Bay, come to think of it?)

In any case, on a personal level Henry has done me a great favor on this thread. When I was his age I kept a journal. The rumor that it was a pink vinyl Barbie diary is false. It was actually a very serious series of spiral notebooks in which I recorded all my teenaged angst. In my late twenties, when I erroneously thought I was grown up, I destroyed them out of fear that someone might see how foolish I was at that age. Now, looking back, I wish I still had them so I could get in touch with that in some ways long lost person.

In lieu of that, however, Henry has come along and provided a perfectly satisfactory substitute. You go, boy. I suggest you print this out and put it in that drawer where you keep all your special things. I promise you you'll be absolutely mortified when you read it in later years. At least I hope so. One would hate to think of a seventeen-year-old trapped in a forty-year-old body, although it does happen, as Go Anne Go has proved on this thread.

Which brings me to another point. I can't recall so long a thread where so many people have emerged with so little credit. Because really, if I didn't already know the approximate ages of some of the posters, I wouldn't be able guess who was supposed to be grown up and, uh, mature and who was still wet behind the ears.

It also makes one realize how it's not that big a step to killing in the name of Jesus, or Allah, or the Pope or Ian Paisley. Particularly when you get the peasants together and hand out torches. But it certainly has been an entertaining if not edifying spectacle.

Yes indeedy it has.

(Has anybody else noticed that 103's literary style somewhat resembles that of Queen Victoria's private letters? Particularly where she talks about Gladstone. Or is it just me?)

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dorcas

Ship's florist
# 4775

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(Has anybody else noticed that 103's literary style somewhat resembles that of Queen Victoria's private letters? Particularly where she talks about Gladstone. Or is it just me?)

Was it QV who complained that Mr Gladstone talked to her as if she were a public meeting?
In which case, would that make 103 a Gladstone clone? Or a QV clone? Not sure which is worse... [Frown]

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"I love large women - they supply warmth in the winter and shade in the summer!" (With thanks to Gort!)

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Nightlamp
Shipmate
# 266

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quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace:
Don't know Nightlamp, but are you trying to summon up the Catholic heavy artillery with this?
quote:
I don't see why they should change their policy about selling a piece of bread.
I didn't think the thread needed much in the way of support meself.
Well I have been trying to think of a way of channelling Wood.

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I don't know what you are talking about so it couldn't have been that important- Nightlamp

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Archimandrite
Shipmate
# 3997

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(Has anybody else noticed that 103's literary style somewhat resembles that of Queen Victoria's private letters? Particularly where she talks about Gladstone. Or is it just me?)

Don't give him the compliment! I'm sure he is of the opinion that Her Late Majesty (who, as we knows, waits like Arthur to redeem her people in their hour of need) was but a portly kraut tick sucking on the blood of her people, and that he would much rather be compared to someone of real intellect and social worth like, say, himself.

However, if he takes a glance at the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, he will see that we are exhorted to treat those given authority with "respect... gratitude and good-will.". Ah, the young of to-day.

--------------------
"Loyal Anglican" (Warning: General Synod may differ).

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Leetle Masha

Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209

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quote:
Surely that doesn't belong here
says Anne, with her quote of lyrics, and of course you're right, Anne. But the lyrics are quite attention-getting; I must Google them all out so I can read them.

Eliab, you are quite right about Cornwallis. I'm glad to hear the French helped us so much there. It's always good to hear something good about France. Thanks!

Leetle M.
Never any good at history

[ 23. April 2005, 14:26: Message edited by: Leetle Masha ]

Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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Originally posted by Nightlamp:

quote:
Well I have been trying to think of a way of channelling Wood.
Think about Britney Spears.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(Has anybody else noticed that 103's literary style somewhat resembles that of Queen Victoria's private letters?

No.

quote:
Particularly where she talks about Gladstone. Or is it just me?)
It's just you.
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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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I know this a tangent, but if the British government stopped giving the Royals any of the money raised by taxation and instead used it to fund welfare prgrammes, for example, it wouldn't be robbery. It might be a shit idea as far as various people are concerned, but not robbery.

I also completely fail to see why the Monarchy is a symbol of freedom. *Shrugs*.

--------------------
Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

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John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

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quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
I know this a tangent, but if the British government stopped giving the Royals any of the money raised by taxation and instead used it to fund welfare prgrammes, for example, it wouldn't be robbery. It might be a shit idea as far as various people are concerned, but not robbery.


WEll if the nation did tear up the deal it made with the QUeen on her accession and stopped paying, presumably she would resume actual ownership of all the assets she turned over to the nation in return.

Last time I checked, the nation has won on that deal for several generations.

Which would mean LESS money for social programs and so on.

Unless you are actually saying you like the idea of unilaterally breaking a legal deal and want to deprive her of both her assets and the the income paid by the nation in return for using them.

JOhn

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
I know this a tangent, but if the British government stopped giving the Royals any of the money raised by taxation and instead used it to fund welfare prgrammes, for example, it wouldn't be robbery. It might be a shit idea as far as various people are concerned, but not robbery.


WEll if the nation did tear up the deal it made with the QUeen on her accession and stopped paying, presumably she would resume actual ownership of all the assets she turned over to the nation in return.

Last time I checked, the nation has won on that deal for several generations.

Which would mean LESS money for social programs and so on.

Unless you are actually saying you like the idea of unilaterally breaking a legal deal and want to deprive her of both her assets and the the income paid by the nation in return for using them.

JOhn

OK, I'll come clean and admit that I hadn't thought of that. I stand corrected on that issue.

Tbh, I don't really mind whether we have a monarchy or not. I neither like nor dislike (more than I dislike any other form of unearned privellege) the ideas and practice of the monarchy.

I kind of think, though, that the actual human beings who form the current monarchy may benifit from an abolishion of that instituition. Despite their millions, they don't seem very happy and I can't say I would want the national press prying into every aspect of my life, esp not after the death of a loved one

--------------------
Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

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luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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quote:

Originally posted by GreyFace:
Presbyterpriests aren't all that bad though, when you get used to them.

like traffic noise?

anyway, back to the dim & distant OP...
was this claim by the seller:
quote:
From what I understand, if you're holding something in your hand during a certain moment when Pope John Paul II spoke during his mass, whetever it becomes blessed.
anything to do with planet earth - or has his buyer been 'done' [Paranoid]

also, does his claim here;
quote:
I ate one wafer then I went back and got another one to save and he gave me another one, but I did get a very dirty look!
suggest that the servers at that particular mass
quote:
this is the actual Eucharist I saved during the mass that I participated in on October 18th, 1998
take less of a strict approach to the consumption & distribution of Communion than others on this thread (notably 103 [Biased] ) and does that make them (esp 103 [Smile] ) more authentic in their enactment / outworking of their transubstantiationary belief than the servers back in October '98? ad the
quote:
I did get a very dirty look!
would suggest that (if the seller is genuine) that the servers might have been aware of his having come back for second helpings.


103, even if I disagree utterly with most of what you say, I have to be impressed with your sincerity & single-minded unwaveringness of belief. It really does suggest that what you do, you "do it to the Lord", even if your zealous approach does sometimes use an armoured tank to crush a grape! [Biased] As you become as ancient and wrinkly as some of the posters here, you've got plenty time to mellow in that regard though! [Razz]

--------------------
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)

Posts: 3682 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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quote:
Originally posted by Eliab:
Rebel Gort,

Yorktown was (much as it pains my English soul to write it) a French victory...

[flagrant tangent continued]

I suppose the 30,000 Germans George III hired for his dirty work had no bearing on the outcome of the war. We still threw off the yoke of oppression and dictatorship. [nevermind that we've hired another George to replace yours]

--- Patriot Gort

BTW: Welcome back Sine. What's your take on stolen eucharist...Plan 9 from Hell? or acceptable commercialism?

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luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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what I know about Yorktown

--------------------
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)

Posts: 3682 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by dorcas:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(Has anybody else noticed that 103's literary style somewhat resembles that of Queen Victoria's private letters? Particularly where she talks about Gladstone. Or is it just me?)

Was it QV who complained that Mr Gladstone talked to her as if she were a public meeting?
In which case, would that make 103 a Gladstone clone? Or a QV clone? Not sure which is worse... [Frown]

At least, in this case, it is safe to say:

We are amused.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(Has anybody else noticed that 103's literary style somewhat resembles that of Queen Victoria's private letters?

No.

quote:
Beloved child, I cannot say what my feelings of horror and indignation are, or how frightfully iniquitous I think this declaration of war! My heart boils and bleeds at the thought of what misery and suffering will be caused by this act of mad folly! And just when all that we and Leopold B. were asked to obtain to settle the question had been obtained!
Possibly it was the extensive use of exclamation marks I had in mind.
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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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Sine Nomine said:
quote:
Don't you just love the phrase "popular demand"? I know I do. It sounds so energetic or something. And so right. Of course it also makes me think of torch-carrying peasants marching on the castle. Or possibly a Betty Hutton musical being held over for a second week at the Bijou. But not a lot of outraged church-going types picketing e-Bay. (How would you picket e-Bay, come to think of it?)

Makes me think of a bustling day at an IKEA twice yearly sale. "We demand a break on Billy wall units! Yes, we do!"

By the way, a surprisingly long, involved post from the master of brevity. Glad to see you back, Sine. [Smile]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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rosamundi

Ship's lacemaker
# 2495

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quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
was this claim by the seller:
quote:
From what I understand, if you're holding something in your hand during a certain moment when Pope John Paul II spoke during his mass, whetever it becomes blessed.
anything to do with planet earth - or has his buyer been 'done' [Paranoid]
"Talking through his hat" is a polite way of describing it. That bottle-opener is no more blessed than the four in my kitchen drawer.

Certainly the Eucharistic Ministers should not have permitted him to take a second Host, but I imagine that it's a bit difficult to keep track of everyone at a Papal Mass.

Deborah

--------------------
Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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This thread is like Peter Sellers in "The Seven faces of Dr. No."

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"Take your broken heart, make it into art"-- Carrie Fisher (1956-2016)

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luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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quote:
Originally posted by rosamundi:
"Talking through his hat" is a polite way of describing it. That bottle-opener is no more blessed than the four in my kitchen drawer.

Certainly the Eucharistic Ministers should not have permitted him to take a second Host, but I imagine that it's a bit difficult to keep track of everyone at a Papal Mass.

any suggestions where the seller got his idea from? could he as a non-RC possibly have misunderstood something - or is he just a liar/muppet?

wonder if the 'dirty look' was his conscience playing tricks

quote:
This thread is like Peter Sellers in "The Seven faces of Dr. No."
pourquoi?

--------------------
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)

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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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Oh, Brother Gort,

One of the many tangents in this thread involved dogma. Did you listen to the sermon from Grace Cathedral-San Francisco for Good Shepherd Sunday (17 April 2005).

Just wondering.

PS. 103, don't listen to it. You won't like it.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153

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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
[flagrant tangent continued]

Quite right. This thread is in serious danger of reverting to the OP.

quote:
I suppose the 30,000 Germans George III hired for his dirty work had no bearing on the outcome of the war.
Certainly they did. For a start, the sleepy krauts provided General Washington with a victory at Trenton in the winter of 1776 (at the very lowest point of the patriots' cause).

quote:
We still threw off the yoke of oppression and dictatorship.
Hmmm. Which is why, I suppose, almost all of the black slaves, and a goodly part of the American Indians, who took part in the war picked the British side. Good old oppressors that they were.


The revolutionary war generally, and Yorktown in particular, can't be analysed as republicanism versus monarchy. The feeling against Britain was not based on the fact that George III was a king, or even a particularly bad king (revolutionary rhetoric notwithstanding), but that he and his government were increasing seen as a distant, meddling, and foreign government. Of course freedom-loving people will resent a foreign king, just as surely as they will love and serve their natural monarch.

The form of government to replace the king was not settled until the end of the war (that Washington did not do what some expected he would, and take the powers, if not the title, of a monarch, was no small part of his deserved reputation as a great statesman).

quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
I also completely fail to see why the Monarchy is a symbol of freedom.

I wouldn't say it is necessarily, though it certainly is in the UK (it does symbolise freedom that, for example, the courts of justice are constituted in the name of the Queen, and that the armed forces owe allegiance to her, not to the ruling party of government). That monarchy is congenial to the free (and is detested by the servile) I assert is true without requiring further explanation. The best example is that of Jesus Christ, who promised his disciples freedom, and also promised to establish a kingdom. Does any Christian feel that his freedom is the less because his Saviour is King of Creation? No. Nor is my freedom the less because Elizabeth is Queen of England.

quote:
Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
It's always good to hear something good about France. Thanks!

Ye gods! [brick wall]

--------------------
"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"

Richard Dawkins

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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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Hey, folks. Gordon Cheng wants his own 19 page thread.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged



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