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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Blasphemous desecration
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
rosamundi, fair enough, I still don't get it though, but then I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Protestant.
By the way, would I be committing sacrilege if I, as a non-Catholic Christian, took Mass at a Catholic church?
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
The First time I ever was a Eucharistic minister a lady walked past me with the host still in her hand, I quickly grabbed her shoulder and told her that she had to eat it immediatly. She looked at me as if I was crazy and I said to her "EAT IT NOW!!!" and she quickly ate it!
She probably will never come to my church again because of that but to Catholics it is INCREDIBLY important that somebody doesn't desecrate that Body of Christ. It is something so serious we just can't risk it!
I guess I must be lower down the candle than I thought. I would rather risk someone nicking the host - yes, and even flogging it on ebay - than risk someone being hurt, upset and embarrassed to the extent they wouldn't return to that church. Bluntly, if it comes to a choice between desecrating Christ in the host, and someone being grabbed and yelled at by a minister of the church during a service, I choose the former. God can take care of himself; people are more vulnerable.
Peronel
You would choose a person over Our Lord??? ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
-103
He did.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Siena
Ship's Bluestocking
# 5574
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Posted
103, Jesus can take care of himself, and is more than capable of defending Himself against desecration, intentional or accidental. The reason for respect of the Precious Body is for our benefit, not His. So the sanctimonious drama about "choosing a person over Our Lord" is more than a little bit over the top.
Was it necessary to grab her and yell, publicly embarrassing her? Tell me, as a Eucharistic Minister, do you not see that you have some duty to those receiving the Eucharist, namely, treating them with respect? You said yourself she probably won't come back to your church. I wonder whether that's the result Christ would have wished for.
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The lives of Christ's poor people are starved and stunted; their wages are low; their houses often bad and insanitary and their minds full of darkness and despair. These are the real disorders of the Church. Charles Marson
Posts: 709 | From: San Diego, California, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
By the way, would I be committing sacrilege if I, as a non-Catholic Christian, took Mass at a Catholic church?
It is not permitted for a non-Catholic to receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, unless under certain very specific conditions. I am not sure whether it would be officially termed sacrilege or not.
Deborah
[ 12. April 2005, 21:29: Message edited by: rosamundi ]
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Website.
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Presumably it wouldn't be Blasphemous Sacrilege, though?
[ 12. April 2005, 21:31: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Hail Gallaxhar
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sienna:
103, Jesus can take care of himself, and is more than capable of defending Himself against desecration, intentional or accidental. The reason for respect of the Precious Body is for our benefit, not His. So the sanctimonious drama about "choosing a person over Our Lord" is more than a little bit over the top.
Was it necessary to grab her and yell, publicly embarrassing her? Tell me, as a Eucharistic Minister, do you not see that you have some duty to those receiving the Eucharist, namely, treating them with respect? You said yourself she probably won't come back to your church. I wonder whether that's the result Christ would have wished for.
I didn't yell - I hissed. It was necessary because she was walking quite quickly and I panicked on my first time as Eucharistic Minister. I told my parish priest and he said that he saw and it was exactly what I should've done. I had remembered what he told me to do from the Eucharistic Minister Instruction Lessons! If you don't like it you can take it up with my parish priest. He said that he didn't want anybody taking the host away with them and it was OUR DUTY as Eucharistic Ministers to make sure that it doesn't happen and to watch them consume it!
It did exactly that - Please can I have some backup from some Catholic Minded people here? I did right and I know it!
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Mousethief
quote:
Hey Caveman, there's this thing called "respect"
I assume you're implying that my previous post was disrespectful. Let's look at it.
quote:
Man, you guys must really care about this stuff if you'd be prepared to pay $2000 for it.
An expression of surprise and interest at someone else's strength of belief. Hardly disrespectful; complimentary, maybe.
quote:
I hear they give it out for free.
Well, it's true.
Yes, it was intended to be humourous, maybe with a faintly irreverent tinge. Personally I'm perfectly happy to be irreverent about things which are sacred to me because I don't see that my irreverence diminishes their sacredness. This is especially true when talking about my convictions to people who don't share them. If other people here can't handle it then they should stay out of Hell.
quote:
Better make sure you're not at 103's church though, if you want to keep it as a souvenir.
Personally I find it disrespectful, not to say offensive, that 103 would act in the way he described in the name of Christ. I'm sure he's big enough to take a bit of mild humour at his expense for it. Let him say what he likes about me.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
I'm fed up with this 'well, Jesus can take care of Himself and so that means anybody who wants to come in and trample over the sacred beliefs of the Church and take away the Body of Christ and even munch away at Him in their stall should just be allowed to do it, right, and nobody should be allowed to be even a little bit mad at them for pissing all over their Faith' argument. In the mass Our Lord continues to give Himself up for us. So no, he can't take care of Himself. He's too busy taking care of us. And yes, we worship Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. It's not just a bit of bread we think a nice man has said a few words of blessing over. It is Our Lord and Our God - Corpus Christi. And that means we don't want nasty minded little people pretending it means and is worth nothing but then flogging it for $2000.
It may come as a shock to some here but not everybody can do exactly what they want. I wouldn't go into the women's section in an Orthodox Synagogue. I wouldn't go into a mosque and pull out a ham sandwich whilst praying. And if anybody else did I would expect the Imam or the Rabbi or whoever to shout at them until they stopped. Churches have rules just like everywhere else and those rules are there to be kept and if you don't like it then tough.
If Pants or Peronel or Sienna or anybody came to the Cosmodrome and tried to take away the Host with them (as has happened) then they would be stopped and I don't care if they never came again. The offence that that person gives to the Catholic Faith is greater than me telling them to stick by the rules.
If you really want an insult then you should see what Black Magicians do with the Hosts that they desecrate. Nobody bothers to do that with the soggy piece of Mother's Pride given out down the local Methodist Chapel.
Cosmo
[ 12. April 2005, 21:44: Message edited by: Cosmo ]
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Hate to tell you this, MT, but I am really trying hard to get the whole "black magician" thing too. That just makes this whole thing seem more and more like superstition rather than Christianity.
Well, I'd say black magic is more like superstition than Christianity. But if you can't be arsed to do some googling and find out what some people would like to do with consecrated hosts, don't expect me to do it for you. That you have a hard time getting it speaks only about you, not about the existence of such people.
I'm not saying that such people don't exist. But why should we give a damn what they think they're doing? Why does it matter who bought it? The fact that both you and Thurible brought it up, as well as a lot of the other charged rhetoric leads me to wonder if a bit of bread is being treated as an object of worship, which is a more serious problem, IMO, than some git selling it on EBay.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Originally posted by rosamundi:
quote:
It is not permitted for a non-Catholic to receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, unless under certain very specific conditions.
I'm not having a go at any of the people here, who after all don't make the rules, but personally I find this offensive.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
quote:
Originally posted by Sienna:
103, Jesus can take care of himself, and is more than capable of defending Himself against desecration, intentional or accidental. The reason for respect of the Precious Body is for our benefit, not His. So the sanctimonious drama about "choosing a person over Our Lord" is more than a little bit over the top.
Was it necessary to grab her and yell, publicly embarrassing her? Tell me, as a Eucharistic Minister, do you not see that you have some duty to those receiving the Eucharist, namely, treating them with respect? You said yourself she probably won't come back to your church. I wonder whether that's the result Christ would have wished for.
I didn't yell - I hissed. It was necessary because she was walking quite quickly and I panicked on my first time as Eucharistic Minister. I told my parish priest and he said that he saw and it was exactly what I should've done. I had remembered what he told me to do from the Eucharistic Minister Instruction Lessons! If you don't like it you can take it up with my parish priest. He said that he didn't want anybody taking the host away with them and it was OUR DUTY as Eucharistic Ministers to make sure that it doesn't happen and to watch them consume it!
It did exactly that - Please can I have some backup from some Catholic Minded people here? I did right and I know it!
Yes, you did, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.
Saving the person't feeling's indeed! Pah!
The distribution of Communion is not the time for instruction about how to receive communion and so it would have been nonsensical for you to be expected to stop there and explain why it was not acceptable for her to be doing what she was doing.
You had no way of telling what the person's intentions were in walking off with the Host. By stopping her, rather than allowing her to continue, you may have prevented her from scandalising the other faithful present, but more importantly from commiting a grave sin. Is this to be preferred over sparing her feelings?
Of course it is!
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Personally I'm perfectly happy to be irreverent about things which are sacred to me because I don't see that my irreverence diminishes their sacredness.
You can be irreverent all you want with things YOU think are sacred. When you start pissing on things you DO NOT think are sacred, but other people do, you are being disrespectful.
I hope that's clear enough even for a fuckwit like yourself to understand.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Originally posted by rosamundi:
quote:
It is not permitted for a non-Catholic to receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, unless under certain very specific conditions.
I'm not having a go at any of the people here, who after all don't make the rules, but personally I find this offensive.
Why?
You find it offensive not to be permitted to pretend to be in communion with a church that you aren't in communion with?
I'd like to be surprised but as this fits the level of logic that you have displayed elsewhere on this thread, I find it rather difficult.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Originally posted by rosamundi:
quote:
It is not permitted for a non-Catholic to receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, unless under certain very specific conditions.
I'm not having a go at any of the people here, who after all don't make the rules, but personally I find this offensive.
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
There's a whole thread down in Dead Horses where you can flog this to your heart's content, sweetie.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Originally posted by rosamundi:
quote:
It is not permitted for a non-Catholic to receive the Eucharist in a Catholic Church, unless under certain very specific conditions.
I'm not having a go at any of the people here, who after all don't make the rules, but personally I find this offensive.
There is at least one, if not several, threads in Dead Horses on this topic. However, I will say this - the Eucharist is a sign of unity. As we are not united, it is not appropriate for us to share a sign of unity.
Deborah
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Website.
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
Look here!
Scroll down to the description of a Black Mass! THIS IS WHAT COULD HAPPEN! I don't want that happening to the Body of Christ at my church or any other church!
Any real Christian would agree! No matter what the feelings of the person involved might be.
Tough shit buddy!
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
The fact that both you and Thurible brought it up, as well as a lot of the other charged rhetoric leads me to wonder if a bit of bread is being treated as an object of worship, which is a more serious problem, IMO, than some git selling it on EBay.
If it were just a "bit of bread" then it wouldn't matter in the least. But according to the Catholic Church's teachings, it's not just a "bit of bread" -- so applying any categories to it that you might apply to a "bit of bread" is irrelevant and not a little stupid.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Enthia
Apprentice
# 9316
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Posted
103, you obviously didn’t want that person to take the wafer away.
As I’m not a catholic, I wondered what’s the worst that could have happened to it?
Posts: 7 | From: Somerset | Registered: Apr 2005
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
I'm fed up with this 'well, Jesus can take care of Himself and so that means anybody who wants to come in and trample over the sacred beliefs of the Church and take away the Body of Christ and even munch away at Him in their stall should just be allowed to do it, right, and nobody should be allowed to be even a little bit mad at them for pissing all over their Faith' argument. In the mass Our Lord continues to give Himself up for us. so no, he can't take care of Himself. He's too busy taking care of us.
I certainly have not said this. On the contrary, I said right up at the top of the previous page that what he was doing was horrid. He has offended on at least three levels: by trampling on something sacred; by abusing the hospitality of the church he visited; and by knowingly - as the opening disclaimer of his ebay post admits - acting in a way which he knows will cause offence.
There is no justification for stealing the host. There is no justification for the deceit involved by taking one with false intentions. There is no justification in trying to profit from that.
Yet none of that is as bad as grabbing and hissing at a member of the body of Christ during the service. A quiet word at the church door, maybe. But what 103 did was an abuse of his position of authority as Eucharistic minister as well as an abject failure to model the love of Christ.
Had it happened to me, not only would I not have returned to that church, it probably would have taken many months before I plucked up the courage to go to church again.
Peronel.
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Enthia
Apprentice
# 9316
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Posted
I agree,
"hissing" at someone was inaproprate
Posts: 7 | From: Somerset | Registered: Apr 2005
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Look here!
Scroll down to the description of a Black Mass! THIS IS WHAT COULD HAPPEN! I don't want that happening to the Body of Christ at my church or any other church!
Any real Christian would agree! No matter what the feelings of the person involved might be.
Tough shit buddy!
-103
So, I'm not a real Christian, nor are the others who don't agree with you on this? Of all the stupid, closeminded and just plain insulting things you've said on these boards, this one is the capper.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
It did exactly that - Please can I have some backup from some Catholic Minded people here? I did right and I know it!
-103
It could have perhaps been handled a little more gently, 103 - I know it's nerve-wracking being a Eucharistic Minister, but part of your role is indeed to see that the Host is consumed with reverence at the altar.
Deborah
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Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group
Posts: 2382 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
So, Peronel and Ethnia, you two are more equipped to tell 103 how to be a eucharistic minister than the priest to whom he reports? Based on what, exactly? I think your heads are just a little bit too big for your shoulders.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enthia:
103, you obviously didn’t want that person to take the wafer away.
As I’m not a catholic, I wondered what’s the worst that could have happened to it?
To quote from the site that 103 linked to:
quote:
This is the ultimate rite for a real Satanist to obtain magic powers: A blasphemous Mass, where the altar is a nude woman, and the vagina is the tabernacle. If possible, a real Host stolen from a Catholic Church is placed in the vagina in the midst of reciting distorted psalms with hot music and all kind of obscenities, coursing Jesus and honoring Satan. The fake priest ends up having real sex, with the Host still in the vagina.
... If a baby can be slaughtered during the ritual, they will drink his blood and eat his flesh, to mimic the most the Eucharist...
. .. Ideally, a Black Mass is to be celebrated by a "real heretic Priest", that, even in sin, can celebrate Mass effectively.
- The prayers end with the strongest expression of Satanism: "Shemhaforash", the word pronounced by God when he created the World, and, while spitting on a cross or stepping on it, they all cry out "Hail, Satan".
. .. And, of course, it may end up with a sexual orgy with all kind of abominations and abuses, under the influence of drugs.
Abhorrent. Repulsive. Reprehensible.
Of course, it's far more likely that she would have taken it back to her pew and eaten it there. Or eaten it en route. Or was holding on to it to intinct. Or whilst she prayed.
I suspect that this sort of rite doesn't happen that often, especially if it includes the slaughter of babies. After all, spare babies are difficult to find, and killing them tends to have consequences.
Churches acting in such a way as to stop people from returning is, this thread would suggest, worryingly common.
Peronel.
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
Yet none of that is as bad as grabbing and hissing at a member of the body of Christ during the service. A quiet word at the church door, maybe. But what 103 did was an abuse of his position of authority as Eucharistic minister as well as an abject failure to model the love of Christ.
No - It wasn't abuse. I had to stop her in order to watch her consume the Body of Christ. Failure to do so would be abusing Christ's Church and just "overlooking" would basically mean I would be commiting a Mortal sin which would be just as bad as what she could go and commit!
I'm not going to take any risks, whilst I'm at my church, she will eat the Body of Christ standing at the step in front of a Eucharistic Minister.
I cannot take the risk that should could pop it in her handbag and take it to a Black Magic Magician who will put it in her private parts
quote:
Of course, it's far more likely that she would have taken it back to her pew and eaten it there. Or eaten it en route. Or was holding on to it to intinct. Or whilst she prayed.
But she could put it in her handbag to take home!
-103
[ 12. April 2005, 22:00: Message edited by: 103 (One-O-Three) ]
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Enthia
Apprentice
# 9316
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Posted
Mousethief don't get personal, remember the 10 commandments.
Posts: 7 | From: Somerset | Registered: Apr 2005
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
If Pants or Peronel or Sienna or anybody came to the Cosmodrome and tried to take away the Host with them (as has happened) then they would be stopped and I don't care if they never came again. The offence that that person gives to the Catholic Faith is greater than me telling them to stick by the rules.
Well, that's a wonderful advertisement on behalf of the Catholic Faith, which I thought claimed to be concerned with the ultimate spiritual well-being of all of humanity. Perhaps I have misunderstood my catechesis.
quote:
If you really want an insult then you should see what Black Magicians do with the Hosts that they desecrate. Nobody bothers to do that with the soggy piece of Mother's Pride given out down the local Methodist Chapel.
Cosmo
Oh, how nice of you to describe the Communion of your fellow Christians as a "soggy piece of Mother's Pride". I'm sure this is in no way on the same level as insulting Jews by failing to cover your head in a synagogue or eating ham in a mosque. Oh no.
[ 12. April 2005, 22:00: Message edited by: jlg ]
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Siegfried said:
So, I'm not a real Christian, nor are the others who don't agree with you on this? Of all the stupid, closeminded and just plain insulting things you've said on these boards, this one is the capper.
So you'd be happy with someone doing that with the Body of Our Lord? Even if you believe that the elements at the Eucharist are only symbolically the Body of Our Lord, would you be happy with someone doing that with symbols? I know I wouldn't, and though I probably wouldn't have expressed it quite like 103 did, I do find it hard to see how one can claim to be a follower of Christ and be happy with such an act.
btw, Cosmo, I'd appreciate it if you didn't refer to the Body of Our Lord as a soggy piece of Mother's Pride. Ta.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
There is no justification for stealing the host. There is no justification for the deceit involved by taking one with false intentions. There is no justification in trying to profit from that.
Yet none of that is as bad as grabbing and hissing at a member of the body of Christ during the service. A quiet word at the church door, maybe. But what 103 did was an abuse of his position of authority as Eucharistic minister as well as an abject failure to model the love of Christ.
Had it happened to me, not only would I not have returned to that church, it probably would have taken many months before I plucked up the courage to go to church again.
Peronel.
I'm sorry but that's just not true. 103 (I can't believe I'm saying this) was quite right to do what he did just as I have done on several occasions. How do I know that you, Peronel, whom I have never seen before in my Church, is simply going to take Our Lord away and eat Him in the comfort of your own pew? How do I know that you are not going to take Him away and pee on Him when you get home? How do I know you are not going to throw Him into a rubbish bin and laugh at Hinm and the Church? How do I know you are not going to take Him away for use in a so-called Black Mass or Satanic Revel?
I don't. And so that means I call to you, there and then, and tell you either to eat the Host there and then or give it back.
The love of Christ does not mean allowing somebody to piss all over God.
Cosmo
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enthia:
Mousethief don't get personal, remember the 10 commandments.
This is Hell. Personal attacks are allowed here and only here.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
A quiet word at the church door, maybe. But what 103 did was an abuse of his position of authority as Eucharistic minister...
No, what 103 did was a total fulfilment of one of the more difficult aspects of his role as Eucharistic minister, and he is to be commended for it. This sort of confrontation is not the sort of thing that comes naturally in our society, but where the Sacred is involved, it is often necesary.
quote:
as well as an abject failure to model the love of Christ.
Is this the same Christ who cast the moneychangers out of the temple for desecrating what he held to be sacred? I don't see any hint of a 'quiet word at the door' in the Gospel account. How is it exactly that Henry has failed in following the example set by Our Lord?
So he was supposed to wait until the end of the Mass, when the Host could have been already in the sealed bag and stuck God only knows where?
We allow all people through our church doors, whether or not we know them, and even knowledge of a person is no gurantee that we know the person's actions and intentions, as we all know from our human relationships. I'm sure none of us has gone without our trust being betrayed at least once.
103 was right.
[ 12. April 2005, 22:03: Message edited by: Back-to-Front ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Siegfried:
quote:
The fact that both you and Thurible brought it up, as well as a lot of the other charged rhetoric leads me to wonder if a bit of bread is being treated as an object of worship, which is a more serious problem, IMO, than some git selling it on EBay.
As I'm sure you know the MBS is treated with a great deal of respect in Catholic churches as it is, as far as we are concerned, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. That makes it an object of veneration.
I don't see what the issue is here. No-one is saying that everyone else should sign up to Catholic views of the Real Presence. All we are saying is that Catholic beliefs about their most important religious ceremony should be respected by non-Catholics.
Why do protestants have such a difficulty with this? If the religious ceremonies of any other religious group were desecrated for profit, I imagine the response would be outrage. I remember when the Taliban blew up those statues of the Buddha. Presumably those who think that Catholic Christians are being oversensitive and that this is much worse than consecrated hosts being flogged on e-bay had no problem with the Taliban doing an impromptu demolition job?
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
quote:
Siegfried said:
So, I'm not a real Christian, nor are the others who don't agree with you on this? Of all the stupid, closeminded and just plain insulting things you've said on these boards, this one is the capper.
So you'd be happy with someone doing that with the Body of Our Lord? Even if you believe that the elements at the Eucharist are only symbolically the Body of Our Lord, would you be happy with someone doing that with symbols? I know I wouldn't, and though I probably wouldn't have expressed it quite like 103 did, I do find it hard to see how one can claim to be a follower of Christ and be happy with such an act.
Excuse me? Where did I say I was happy about someone swiping a wafer and selling it? I'm just amazed and apalled the comments by some posters (103 among them) who seem to me to be straying into idolatry. And don't even get me started on the sort of gullible people who run around believing Satanists are routinely killing babies and drinking their blood.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
But she could put it in her handbag to take home!
-103
Yes, she could have. And she could have then taken it home, and stuck in in her fanny, and drunk the blood of a dead baby in some bizarre mockery of the Mass.
Anything is possible. But some things are pretty unlikely.
What is likely is - as you said - she won't come back to your church.
I think that's a pity. Do you?
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
quote:
Originally posted by Cosmo:
If Pants or Peronel or Sienna or anybody came to the Cosmodrome and tried to take away the Host with them (as has happened) then they would be stopped and I don't care if they never came again. The offence that that person gives to the Catholic Faith is greater than me telling them to stick by the rules.
Well, that's a wonderful advertisement on behalf of the Catholic Faith, which I thought claimed to be concerned with the ultimate spiritual well-being of all of humanity. Perhaps I have misunderstood my catechesis.
The Catholic Faith is concerned with the spiritual wellbeing of all humanity. That is why we don't let Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament be pissed all over, abused and desecrated just for the sake of not offending a nice little person. The Gospel is, by its very nature, offensive and sometimes it means saying 'No'.
Cosmo
Posts: 2375 | Registered: May 2001
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Look here!
Scroll down to the description of a Black Mass! THIS IS WHAT COULD HAPPEN! I don't want that happening to the Body of Christ at my church or any other church!
Any real Christian would agree! No matter what the feelings of the person involved might be.
Tough shit buddy!
-103
So, I'm not a real Christian, nor are the others who don't agree with you on this? Of all the stupid, closeminded and just plain insulting things you've said on these boards, this one is the capper.
Sieg
You think it's fine to take the Body of Christ and put in a vagina?!?!??
How can any Christian think that?!?!?!??!?!
And before you say "I just think it's a wafer" I'm not talking about a Wafer, I'm talking about the Body of Christ. JESUS! No Christian would want Jesus to be abused like that!
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
I think that's a pity. Do you?
and sticking the Body of Christ in her fanny isn't?
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
Callan--
See my reply above.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
So, how Peronel and I are advocating sticking Hosts in various orifices? Has reading comprehension completely gone out the window?
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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Enthia
Apprentice
# 9316
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Posted
Just because personal attacks are allowed, doesn’t mean you have to reduce yourself to that level.
I’m an atheist and im against selling religious artifices on eBay. People should have a little respect, there isn’t enough respect nowadays.
Posts: 7 | From: Somerset | Registered: Apr 2005
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Captain Caveman
Shipmate
# 3980
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Posted
Mousethief:
quote:
You can be irreverent all you want with things YOU think are sacred. When you start pissing on things you DO NOT think are sacred, but other people do, you are being disrespectful.
I hope that's clear enough even for a fuckwit like yourself to understand.
Unlike you it is not my intention to be deliberately offensive.
If through lack of understanding or consideration I have posted something on this thread which has caused anyone offence to deeply held beliefs then I apologise for it.
Back-to-Front, you seem to have difficulty with the idea that an intelligent person might disagree with you.
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"Take this shirt
Polyester white trash made in nowhere
Take this shirt and make it clean" - U2
Posts: 519 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
And don't even get me started on the sort of gullible people who run around believing Satanists are routinely killing babies and drinking their blood.
Sieg
Satanists do not routinely go about killing babies and drinking their blood (although the killing of babies and adults does sometimes happen and is the culmination of a Satanic Rite). However, the desecration of the Blessed Sacrament (and all that pertains to it - the altar, tabernacle, ciboria etc) does happen often and on a routine basis.
Cosmo
Posts: 2375 | Registered: May 2001
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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Caveman:
Back-to-Front, you seem to have difficulty with the idea that an intelligent person might disagree with you.
He's not the only one.
Sieg
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
So, how Peronel and I are advocating sticking Hosts in various orifices? Has reading comprehension completely gone out the window?
Sieg
Sticking Hosts in various orifices is one of the better-known abuses of the Host. 103 prevented the possibility of abuse by his actions, which are the standard way of dealing with this type of incident. Insofar as you are objecting to his prevention of this abuse, then yes, you are passivley advocating abuse of the Host, of which sticking it into a bodily orifice was a possibility.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Back-to-Front:
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
I think that's a pity. Do you?
and sticking the Body of Christ in her fanny isn't?
If you look further up, you'll see I describe it as "Abhorrent. Repulsive. Reprehensible." It is also incredibly unlikely.
Yeah, 103 might just be Super-minister-man, who has saved our Lord from a fate worse than death.
More likely, though, is that he's upset someone who committed the unforgivable sin of being unfamiliar with the ways of his church. What a hero.
Peronel.
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enthia:
Just because personal attacks are allowed, doesn’t mean you have to reduce yourself to that level.
I’m an atheist and im against selling religious artifices on eBay. People should have a little respect, there isn’t enough respect nowadays.
Like respect for a person doing their job in a church they way they were told to do it, and commended by their priest afterwards for doing it? That kind of respect? Why don't you have that kind of respect?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Viola
Administrator
# 20
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enthia:
Just because personal attacks are allowed, doesn’t mean you have to reduce yourself to that level.
I’m an atheist and im against selling religious artifices on eBay. People should have a little respect, there isn’t enough respect nowadays.
Enthia sweetie - you're terribly new around here to be telling us how to do things!
People are utterly lovely to each other on all the other boards here - you might feel more comfortable starting wtih one of them.
K.
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"If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15
"Commandment number one: shut the hell up." Erin Etheredge 1971-2010
Posts: 4345 | From: West of England | Registered: May 2001
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Siena
Ship's Bluestocking
# 5574
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Posted
103, all caps and multiple exclamation points generally means "yelling." "Grabbing" her by the shoulder doesn't mean "a polite tap." Note I didn't say you should let her do whatever she wanted or leave with the Eucharist. What I said was she should be treated respectfully, which, from your retelling of the incident, I don't think you did.
quote:
If Pants or Peronel or Sienna or anybody came to the Cosmodrome and tried to take away the Host with them (as has happened) then they would be stopped and I don't care if they never came again. The offence that that person gives to the Catholic Faith is greater than me telling them to stick by the rules.
I wouldn't dream of it trying to take the Host away from the Cosmodrome (or anywhere else), nor do I think it's just fine to treat the Eucharist in any way I please. But I'm fairly sure, from reading your posts, that when you stopped the errant communicant, you would at least initially try to do so in a dignified, unobtrusive manner, not yelling, hissing or grabbing at them unless it was a last resort.
How does pointing out that we revere the sacrament for OUR benefit, to show our love and respect for the person of God (on the theory that we need God, not vice-versa), equate with saying "it's okay to do whatever we want with the Eucharist?" It doesn't make the need for reverence any less. Sorry if I'm being too purgatorial, but I don't get the connection.
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The lives of Christ's poor people are starved and stunted; their wages are low; their houses often bad and insanitary and their minds full of darkness and despair. These are the real disorders of the Church. Charles Marson
Posts: 709 | From: San Diego, California, USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cosmo
Shipmate
# 117
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
quote:
Originally posted by Back-to-Front:
quote:
Originally posted by Peronel:
I think that's a pity. Do you?
and sticking the Body of Christ in her fanny isn't?
If you look further up, you'll see I describe it as "Abhorrent. Repulsive. Reprehensible." It is also incredibly unlikely.
No it is not.
Cosmo
Posts: 2375 | Registered: May 2001
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