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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Blasphemous desecration
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
History 101. The Boston Tea Party was a riot against taxes being cut (IIRC from 15p in the pound to 5p). The tax cut from the old rates to the new would have put all the smugglers out of business- so they destroyed the tea of the (legitimate) competition to preserve their own market.
History 102. The American Revolution was a civil war in the truest sense of the word- splitting families straight down the middle.
History 201. All the leading American revolutionaries both owed large sums to the British and considered themselves to be British. Also, the cry of "Taxation without representation is tyrany" wasn't a call to eliminate the (negligible) taxes on Americans.
History 301. Historically, a strong king has meant weak lords. Due to his insulation from most of a country, with rare exceptions, Kings tend not to be too oppressive - while the indignities local Barons have been able to inflict (starting with ruinous and arbitrary taxes (and enclosure), moving through Droit de Signeur/Prima Nocte and onwards to outright enslavement and/or pimping of his people). Most of the above simply aren't worth it for a King - in particular, he has a limited amount of stamina- whereas 25 Barons have about 25 times the stamina and can be in 25 times as many places at once. Also, due to much more restricted ability to process information, most of the above are somewhat more impractical for a national level ruler. And a King is sigificantly less likely to declare war than a strong Lord is to try to move in on his neighbour.
(On a tangent, the above is a good summary of much of why I think libertarianism is stupid - for king, read government and for baron/lord read corporation).
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Eliab, all in fun, I assure you. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Leetle M.
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Oh, Brother Gort,
One of the many tangents in this thread involved dogma. Did you listen to the sermon from Grace Cathedral-San Francisco for Good Shepherd Sunday (17 April 2005).
Not until I followed your link. Such a great sermon! Very thought provoking and certainly revealed a new aspect of "dogma" for me. I'm often guilty of ignoring the fundamental role of love in Christianity during my diatribes. Alan Jones is a great speaker. Thanks for the reference!
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
BTW: Welcome back Sine. What's your take on stolen eucharist...Plan 9 from Hell? or acceptable commercialism?
Oops. Didn't see this this morning.
My take, for what's its worth, is it's great fun to get one's panties in a wad about The Holy. However I'm a bit bemused by folks who have time to troll eBay looking for things to be upset about. That takes a certain amount of dedication to being upset that's either admirable or worrying depending on one's point of view. Time that might be better spent knitting socks for our brave boys and girls at the front or something. But then we all have our peculiar hobbies.
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
...That takes a certain amount of dedication to being upset that's either admirable or worrying depending on one's point of view.
Blaspheming moral relativist! Get your butt over here.
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--Formerly: Gort--
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Blaspheming moral relativist!
Possibly. But I still seem to be stuck on Micah 6:8. I'm glad to know others are more advanced however. It's an inspiration.
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
It's difficult to be humble when you are always right.
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--Formerly: Gort--
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
It's difficult to be humble when you are always right.
Are you speaking from personal experience here?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
That must be a great comfort to you in your loneliness. Perhaps the two are related.
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Please, gentlemen. I was refering to the Micah verse. Do I seem like a know-it-all around here?
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--Formerly: Gort--
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Please, gentlemen. I was refering to the Micah verse. Do I seem like a know-it-all around here?
You want the truth?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
You do have a tendency to make certain pronouncements with a good deal of certainty.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
...and Mousethief and I, who are both humble and quiet types, find that a bit intimidating.
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
I apologize. I'm not the author of the final truth. All statements of conviction from me should be taken as personal opinion and not expressions of universal fact.
[any resemblance to persons living or dead are coincidental]
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--Formerly: Gort--
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
How about "All statements of opinion from me should be taken as personal conviction"? Nothing wrong with convictions.
But (and this is not directed at you, Gort) I've about decided the world's biggest problem isn't lack of clean drinking water, global warming, or the spread of HIV/Aids, but rather the apparently built-in human imperative to mind everybody else's damn business.
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Yes, but here we have a board where we can lay out our business for everyone to mind.
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--Formerly: Gort--
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
any suggestions where the seller got his idea from? could he as a non-RC possibly have misunderstood something - or is he just a liar/muppet?
It's entirely possible he could have misunderstood something. After all, some Catholics don't have a full grasp on what their own church teaches, why should an "outsider," for want of a better word, have a full understanding?
Alternatively, he could be a liar/muppet.
Deborah
[ 24. April 2005, 20:16: Message edited by: rosamundi ]
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Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group
Posts: 2382 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
...and Mousethief and I, who are both humble and quiet types, find that a bit intimidating.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
[ahem] sorry - something caught in my throat.
quote:
quote:Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
any suggestions where the seller got his idea from? could he as a non-RC possibly have misunderstood something - or is he just a liar/muppet?
It's entirely possible he could have misunderstood something. After all, some Catholics don't have a full grasp on what their own church teaches, why should an "outsider," for want of a better word, have a full understanding?
Alternatively, he could be a liar/muppet.
glad that's sorted then ;o)
was hoping for suggestions on what on earth he could have misinterpreted to get the blessed-things-in-hand idea?!? ;o)
[unhellish tangent] I do like your avatar Rosamundi - it's very pretty [/unhellish tangent]
[ 24. April 2005, 23:05: Message edited by: luvanddaisies ]
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
sorry - something caught in my throat.
I should probably take offense or something. Do you have one I could take?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
sorry - something caught in my throat.
I should probably take offense or something. Do you have one I could take?
er, no - but I found a couple of cough sweets helped my aforementined temporary affliction - maybe you could find an offence to take from eBay?
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif) ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
glad that's sorted then
was hoping for suggestions on what on earth he could have misinterpreted to get the blessed-things-in-hand idea?!?
Do you know, I genuinely have no idea. I was thinking about this at Mass yesterday (ooops) and I really couldn't think of a single point in the Mass that could be construed as conferring an automatic blessing on anything.
quote:
[unhellish tangent] I do like your avatar Rosamundi - it's very pretty [/unhellish tangent]
Thank you. It's a piece of handmade Honiton lace that a friend made for me, because Deborah is from the Hebrew for "bee".
Deborah
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Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group
Posts: 2382 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Thinking about the "safe list" this afternoon, it occurred to me that if 103 converts he's still going to have to have a "safe list" of places he can go in order to avoid women handing out Communion.
I suggest he starts compiling a list of monasteries that have services open to the public.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Might be easier if he just joins a monastery (Trappist, perhaps?).
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
If your criterion is No Women, there's always Mount Athos.
[ 25. April 2005, 18:51: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Ah, but unfortunately they're schismatic Orthodox monks rather than monks of the Really One and Only Truly True Church, aren't they?
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
If your criterion is No Women, there's always Mount Athos.
Works for HRH Charles.
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Ah, but unfortunately they're schismatic Orthodox monks rather than monks of the Really One and Only Truly True Church, aren't they?
Yeah, but they don't have priests with ovaries*, which is far, far more important than anything else.
(*or anyone with ovaries. Or, I believe, animals with ovaries, which does make you wonder how they cope for eggs...)
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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welsh dragon
Shipmate
# 3249
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Posted
...or milk. Makes me wonder if one of the founders had a problem with his mother...
Posts: 5352 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Do they have any statues or icons of female saints or (I don't know the correct title) the BVM on Mount Athos? Or does the ban only extend to living female creatures?
[ 25. April 2005, 19:32: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Thinking about the "safe list" this afternoon, it occurred to me that if 103 converts he's still going to have to have a "safe list" of places he can go in order to avoid women handing out Communion.
I suggest he starts compiling a list of monasteries that have services open to the public.
I don't have a problem with female EM's, An Extraordinary minister of the Eucharist does not Celebrate the Eucharist! Also my G/F is a Eucharistic Minister and she would kill me if I didn't approve of her...
-103
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
I've just had a thought -103 - does your church have extraordinary Eucharistic ministers every week? If so, why? The idea is that they are extra-ordinary.
Also, is your girlfriend a eucharistic minister at your church? Rome does discourage women from serving at the Altar/being eucharistic ministers when there are men available.
Certainly, there should be lay eucharistic ministers when there are clergy around.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
You want to watch out for those strong-willed women, 103!
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Hmm...that might explain why he doesn't approve of lady vicars......
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
I've just had a thought -103 - does your church have extraordinary Eucharistic ministers every week? If so, why? The idea is that they are extra-ordinary.
Also, is your girlfriend a eucharistic minister at your church? Rome does discourage women from serving at the Altar/being eucharistic ministers when there are men available.
Certainly, there should be lay eucharistic ministers when there are clergy around.
Thurible
We now only have 1 active priest at our church who can celebrate at the 10:30 Mass.
We have 6 Eucharist Stations.
If Rome discourages Women from serving/being EMs why does a certain RC Church that I go to have an entirely female serving team and an almost entirely female EM team?
I sat behind two teenage guys at the mass who could've served but they didn't.
At my own church we try to keep the Male/Female ratio 50:50
Our sister church though doesn't like Women in the Sanctuary... at all!
P.S. My G/F wouldn't be seen dead at my church, she goes to a certain Anglican Church which is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, she asked me if my "vicar" wore robes during "The Lord's Supper"!
-103
[ 25. April 2005, 23:03: Message edited by: 103 (One-O-Three) ]
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
We now only have 1 active priest at our church who can celebrate at the 10:30 Mass.
We have 6 Eucharist Stations.
If Rome discourages Women from serving/being EMs why does a certain RC Church that I go to have an entirely female serving team and an almost entirely female EM team?
I sat behind two teenage guys at the mass who could've served but they didn't.
At my own church we try to keep the Male/Female ratio 50:50
Our sister church though doesn't like Women in the Sanctuary... at all!
P.S. My G/F wouldn't be seen dead at my church, she goes to a certain Anglican Church which is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, she asked me if my "vicar" wore robes during "The Lord's Supper"!
-103
1) They needn't celebrate - but they could robe and administer.
2) I've no idea - perhaps you should ask the priest there why he's not following their guidelines.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Oh, I missed the "6 stations" bit - WHY?!!?!
How many communicants are there at your church? Thousands? Or would kneeling at the Altar rail be perfectly adequate?
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
We now only have 1 active priest at our church who can celebrate at the 10:30 Mass.
We have 6 Eucharist Stations.
If Rome discourages Women from serving/being EMs why does a certain RC Church that I go to have an entirely female serving team and an almost entirely female EM team?
I sat behind two teenage guys at the mass who could've served but they didn't.
At my own church we try to keep the Male/Female ratio 50:50
Our sister church though doesn't like Women in the Sanctuary... at all!
P.S. My G/F wouldn't be seen dead at my church, she goes to a certain Anglican Church which is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, she asked me if my "vicar" wore robes during "The Lord's Supper"!
-103
1) They needn't celebrate - but they could robe and administer.
2) I've no idea - perhaps you should ask the priest there why he's not following their guidelines.
Thurible
Believe me, myself and another shipmate tried to find out by emailing them, we recieved no reply.
6 Stations... because we are an incredibly popular church and we aren't in a very well designed building, reorientation moved into Phase 3 and now has been stopped midway through work because of a complaint ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Kneeling at the altar rail wouldn't be a good idea because then the communicants would have to come back down the way they came and there would be a bottleneck at the entrance to the chancel because 4 columns of pews would merge into one queue. People don't just sit in pews either side of the central aisle, the side aisles are often quite well populated too (one side of the church always have more people than another though)
-103
[ 25. April 2005, 23:22: Message edited by: 103 (One-O-Three) ]
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
Posts: 9716 | From: North Yorkshire | Registered: May 2004
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
d'you think if this thread reaches the 1000 post mark the eBay seller who was the catalyst for the whole thing should have it emailed to him ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
(How did they meet? That's what I want to know.
"Hot Teen EM love - meet Godly Gods and Goddesses in YOUR local area! No credit cards necessary."
Surely not.)
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luvanddaisies
the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
she goes to a certain Anglican Church which is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, she asked me if my "vicar" wore robes during "The Lord's Supper"!
-103
what's so "!" about that? ours don't. The church is anglican. I reckon (although, funnily enough, I don't tend to look at the clergy's clothes during Communion, having more important things on the old "to-think" list then) about 50% of the anglican Communions I've attended have been served by dog-collared people, and the other 50% not.
Ours wear suits, as they always do for services. I've been at Lord's Suppers where the vicar in charge has been in casual clothes - like on 'weekends away, 'houseparties' or similar.
as to the serving point problems in your church - why not serve the congregation in their seats? that's what we do for all but a very few less congregation-intensive services (Ascension Day, Maundy Thursday, that sort of thing)
[ 25. April 2005, 23:50: Message edited by: luvanddaisies ]
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)
Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
I think the exclamation mark might have been referring to the fact that the minister's not wearing robes for the Lord's Supper is illegal.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I thought the "!" was because she called it The Lord's Supper.
And I'm really tickled at imagining the personals ads 103 and G/F might have placed to meet each other.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
why not serve the congregation in their seats?
I have a wonderful image in my mind of 103 (no hyphen) climbing over all the little old ladies in the pews, dishing out hosts and demanding that they eat them NOW!!!
Meanwhile prot girlie waits at door watching wistfully as Catholic boyf does his bit for Tat. So-o-o-o Romeo and Juliet.
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif) Corpus
[Edited because I can't spell.]
[ 26. April 2005, 00:41: Message edited by: Corpus cani ]
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Oh, I missed the "6 stations" bit - WHY?!!?!
How many communicants are there at your church? Thousands? Or would kneeling at the Altar rail be perfectly adequate?
Thurible
Kneeling at the altar rail during Easter or on a Sunday?
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
...Also my G/F is a Eucharistic Minister and she would kill me if I didn't approve of her...
Sounds like one of those co-dependent relationships.
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--Formerly: Gort--
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
103 has a girlfriend?!
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Oh, I missed the "6 stations" bit - WHY?!!?!
How many communicants are there at your church? Thousands? Or would kneeling at the Altar rail be perfectly adequate?
Thurible
Kneeling at the altar rail during Easter or on a Sunday?
Perfectly acceptable in the Roman Rite, which is the one it seems that -103's church follows slavishly on some issues.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Can anyone tell me when women started becoming eucharistic ministers? This isn't something I ever remember seeing before the past few years. It may well have been going on earlier than that, but it certainly never happened in any of the churches I used to go to, and I wasn't aware that it was a possibility, until one day I suddenly found myself being served Communion by a woman and I had no idea what her role was or how this was possible.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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