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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Papal Coronation / MW 1008: Papal Coronation
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
Regarding the Ordinaries to the Masses, the only one I recognized during the novendialis was de Angelis--and I've transcribed most of them from the Kyriale into modern notation. De Angelis is well-known to me, because I have sung it at the Vatican several times--for papal and chapter Masses.
I find it hard to believe the Cum Julilo was sung during the interregnum, but if some of you were humming along, then I bow to your racial memory. Actually, the Annunciation would have beem observed during the Interregnum (having fallen on Good Friday and being transferred to the next available day after the Octave of Easter). If they actually sang it on a Proper day, then they have more liturgical sense than I give them credit for.
I watched the first part of the investiture ceremony this morning (at 2 a.m. my time), but gave up after Bxvi got the Pallium--I skipped the homily, and there was no need to observe the Consecration: if you've seen one wafer turned into Jesus, you've seen 'em all.
I thought it was pretty cool that they did some research (in Lyons, if I remember) and invested him with a Pallium that was more ancient in design than the rags they currently hang on archbishops. And I thought the procession out of the Confessio was really cool.
I was dismayed that Msr. Liberto is still directing the Sistina (merciful God, that man's conducting style looks like he's killing flies) , but I stand by my contention that Bxvi is gonna get rid of him sooner than later.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pendragon:
2) Did you see the fantastic mantilla the lady standing in the Heads of State congregation next to the altar was wearing?
That would be Reina Sofia de Espana, and boy howdy, that's a great hat.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
I am a bad, naughty double poster, and here's a much better picture of the fancy hat.
And yet another mantilla.
One last hat picture, I promise.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Mark the Punk posted:
quote:
the Orthodox Plot lost a few points with the Greek reading of the Gospel.
Mark, that deacon was from the Greek Uniate church under the Pope, not from the Greek Orthodox Church.
It may be, however, that you just don't care for the sound of Byzantine chant. Not to worry, many people find it hard to get used to.
Leetle M.
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
It may be, however, that you just don't care for the sound of Byzantine chant. Not to worry, many people find it hard to get used to.
Which has to be why churches of Russian and Antiochian background are taking in so many more new members than churches of a Greek background, no? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
I wouldn't think that was the only reason, Mousethief, if indeed the Russian and Antiochian churches are taking in more new members.
Some Antiochian churches I've visited don't do much better with Byzantine chant than that deacon did, and when the chant is in Arabic, it is even more difficult for English-speakers to appreciate. That's just the way the cookie crumbles, I suppose.
A question was asked earlier about what that Greek Catholic deacon was wearing. He was wearing a diaconal stole and a dalmatic, made of cloth of gold (I think), cut in the Byzantine style. Byzantine vestments are derived from the court dress of the Imperial Court in Constantinople.
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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St. Punk the Pious
Biblical™ Punk
# 683
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Posted
The Greek singers weren't so hot either.
On the other hand, I thought the homily was excellent.
You know, I can see that popery just might get real tempting to a number of conservative Anglo-Caths.
Gag! They are having a prayer in French now! I thought the Catholic Church had long ago cast off French domination!
Makes me wish the Cartholicks would chuck Vatican II and go back to Latin!
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The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.
Posts: 4161 | From: Choral Evensong | Registered: Jul 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
The "Greek Singers" Mark mentions are also Greek Catholics, rather than Greek Orthodox.
The Orthodox had representatives there, but those representatives took no active part in the service except to exchange the Peace.
Leetle M.
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Chapelhead*
Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stbruno:
Was it just me or did the litany end with an appeal to St Benedict?
You are correct, it did.
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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Ogre
Shipmate
# 4601
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Posted
A nice photo: and very interesting. Has His Holiness Pope Bendict XVI's brother Fr Georg Ratzinger been bumped up to Protonotary Apostolic within the past week; or has he been a Monsignor for some time? I gather he was an eminent musican and priest, being Director of Music at Regensberg Cathedral for thirty years (1964-94). ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Pete Ergo Religionem
['Therefore Seek a Way of Life']
Posts: 480 | From: West Midlands, UK | Registered: Jun 2003
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
My understanding is that St John Lateran is still the cathedral of Rome. Does anyone know if popes still get enthroned there, and if there are any plans for Benedict XVI?
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
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Archimandrite
Shipmate
# 3997
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ogre:
A nice photo: and very interesting. Has His Holiness Pope Bendict XVI's brother Fr Georg Ratzinger been bumped up to Protonotary Apostolic within the past week; or has he been a Monsignor for some time? I gather he was an eminent musican and priest, being Director of Music at Regensberg Cathedral for thirty years (1964-94).
Indeed he is!
Wikipedia saith:
"In 1967 he was named Monsignor and in 1976 papal honorary Prelate... In 1994, Georg Ratzinger was named a papal protonotary."
[ 25. April 2005, 11:53: Message edited by: Archimandrite ]
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
My understanding is that St John Lateran is still the cathedral of Rome. Does anyone know if popes still get enthroned there, and if there are any plans for Benedict XVI?
According to the Zenit news service:
quote:
The Pope will take possession of his Chair ("incatedratio"), the Basilica of St. John Lateran, cathedral of the Diocese of Rome, on May 7.
FCB
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
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shareman
Shipmate
# 2871
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Posted
So was it just the coverage that the Vatican beamed to North America, or did every English language news source have the Papal inauguration with a very annoying and verbose voiceover? A North American sounding personage gave a blow by blow discription of everything that was happening, translations of all the Latin, and identified whoever the camera cast its gaze upon. The music was thus inaudible, as was the Latin, and I stopped watching after the Collect, it was that bad!
At one point, he informed us we were hearing the choir sing the Litany of the Saints. Well, we weren't, we were listening to him talk about which bishop was which and translating the response, and missed the whole thing nearly, not helped my my ineffectual cries of "Shut the %$#%$#%$# up." ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob was a stranger in the land of Ham.
Posts: 516 | From: on a rock AND a hard place | Registered: May 2002
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Shadowhund
Shipmate
# 9175
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Posted
The voice-overs of Raymond Arroyo and Father Neuhaus during EWTN's coverage of JPII's funeral were overpowering and obnoxious. At least Christine Amanpour and Anderson Cooper on CNN allowed me to hear what was going on at the funeral, while the former two were more interested in talking everyone to death.
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"Had the Dean's daughter worn a bra that afternoon, Norman Shotover might never have found out about the Church of England; still less about how to fly"
A.N. Wilson
Posts: 3788 | From: Your Disquieted Conscience | Registered: Mar 2005
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shareman
Shipmate
# 2871
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Posted
This seemed to be different, though. CBC had two commentators for the funeral, but the actual footage of the funeral itself had a different voice, the same as for the inauguration. I assumed this was a voiceover done "at source" rather than inserted by CBC, especially since coverage on another channel had the same voice. The exerpts I saw on BBC world service didn't have the voiceover, so I'm not sure how this situation developed. I am trying to figure this out, so that I can chastise the right source via a "Disgusted, Tunbridge Wells" type email. "Whom do I sue?"
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Israel also came into Egypt, and Jacob was a stranger in the land of Ham.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shareman:
So was it just the coverage that the Vatican beamed to North America, or did every English language news source have the Papal inauguration with a very annoying and verbose voiceover?
The BBC did it rather well, I thought. Most of the service was broadcast without interruption. Now and again one of the people in the studio would comment - in addition to the reporter assigned to it, they had one theologian, a nun and an archbishop (Vincent Nicholls, Birmingham). They didn't comment often, but Vincent Nicholls did help the reporter out now and again and I found his remarks thoughtful and interesting. Obviously he was a lot more familiar with what was going on than the reporter.
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Did La Reina Sofia in that all-white get-up with veil remind anyone else of an overgrown First Communion girl?
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Chapelhead*
Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
Did La Reina Sofia in that all-white get-up with veil remind anyone else of an overgrown First Communion girl?
And has she kept it in the back of a cupboard since 1998 when she met JPII - royalty are careful about stuff like that?
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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Pendragon
Ship's swordbearer
# 8759
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by shareman:
So was it just the coverage that the Vatican beamed to North America, or did every English language news source have the Papal inauguration with a very annoying and verbose voiceover?
The BBC did it rather well, I thought. Most of the service was broadcast without interruption. Now and again one of the people in the studio would comment - in addition to the reporter assigned to it, they had one theologian, a nun and an archbishop (Vincent Nicholls, Birmingham). They didn't comment often, but Vincent Nicholls did help the reporter out now and again and I found his remarks thoughtful and interesting. Obviously he was a lot more familiar with what was going on than the reporter.
that sounded like Huw Edwards (newsreader/official occasion commentator to me.
[Edited because I clipped 'post' too soon]
[ 25. April 2005, 21:56: Message edited by: Pendragon ]
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Not a particuarly GLE
Everything will be OK in the end; if it's not OK it's not the end.
(seen on a fridgemagnet)
Posts: 392 | From: Coventry | Registered: Nov 2004
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Dumbledore wannabe
Shipmate
# 9310
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Posted
CNN was pretty good at the funeral for just letting us listen to the original and translations, but for the Sunday "coronation" they were appauling. I wish they had kept Anderson Cooper - instead they got Christien Lampur (or whatever her name is). She was horrible - she would not be quiet AND she didn't know a thing about what she was talking about other than to try and grind her own personal axes. Had I known, I would have taped it from ANY other station. Now, I feel better for having said that. I shall do what I wish she had done and be quiet.
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Simon
Editor
# 1
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Posted
Anyone know how long B16's homily was, to the nearest minute? I need the info for a Mystery Worshipper report.
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Eternal memory
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
My TiVo recording clocks it at 35 minutes.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pendragon:
that sounded like Huw Edwards (newsreader/official occasion commentator to me.
Yes, it was. He pretty much faded into the background after a short while and let Vincent Nicholls do most of the talking, if any, which was sensible as he was much more familiar with the procedures.
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
they had one theologian
The theologian was an historian, Professor Eamon Duffy.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
But an ecclesiastical historian, so a wannabe-theologian!
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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anglicanrascal
Shipmate
# 3412
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da Wonder Sheep:
One last hat picture, I promise.
That's not a hat picture, it's a watch picture. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 3186 | From: Diocese of Litigalia | Registered: Oct 2002
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Chapelhead*
Ship’s Photographer
# 1143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anglicanrascal:
That's not a hat picture, it's a watch picture.
Possibly a very necessary watch. The Times reported today that Benedict XVI has told his first joke as Pope. Arriving 20 minutes late for a meeting with German pilgrims he explained that he had become “a bit of an Italian” in his 23 years in Rome. He then added (to loud cheers) that he is still a Bavarian at heart.
Not exactly side-splitting, but a first entry in the “Benny the Sixteenth’s big book of jokes”.
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Benedikt Gott Geschickt!
Posts: 7082 | From: Turbolift Control. | Registered: Aug 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
My favourite papal joke with regard to time is when (and apparently this is true), +Geoffrey Fisher (was it +Geoffrey Fisher) was meant to be meeting the Pope, who apologised when he arrived late, and +Fisher's response was "Don't worry - no-one's infallible!"
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
Can anyone help with some musical questions? As Ben rode around the piazza in the popemobile the organist played the Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor.......and an excellent performance it was, especially nice job on the fugue. Where was the organ? Did they have a pipe organ or was it some electronic contraption?
....and at the end of the fugue, the organist launched into another piece. Does anyone know what it was?
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
My TiVo recording clocks it at 35 minutes.
It was a very long homily, wasn't it? I was just enjoying watching all those wilting dignitaries out in the midday Roman sun. (It was warm here too on Sunday and I was enjoying an iced tea at the time.) But I've since read the homily, downloaded from the Vatican website, and it reads a lot better than it sounded. Beautifully crafted, with nicely balanced emphases. A hint of playing to the gallery but I think we could make an allowance for that given the occasion. I hope this is something we can look forward to from B16 - elegant homilies in the classical manner.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
Yesterday, I read a report on Yahoo news related to Benedict's address (not at the inauguration, but to German compatriots.) I was impressed by his frankness - he described knowing he'd be elected as similar to going to the guillotine!
I'm not always the most alert of people, royal watcher though I am, and Jennifer's post reminded me of a question (bear with me, since it's trivia probably only I would wish to know.) At the inauguration, I think I spotted a few royal virgins in communion white. Who was who?
Eamon Duffy (a great favourite of mine) was excellent in his comments on all the recent papal ceremonies. He never says anything which could offend the most devout Catholic, yet has a refreshing openness and honesty.
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
Can anyone help with some musical questions? As Ben rode around the piazza in the popemobile the organist played the Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor.......and an excellent performance it was, especially nice job on the fugue. Where was the organ? Did they have a pipe organ or was it some electronic contraption?
....and at the end of the fugue, the organist launched into another piece. Does anyone know what it was?
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Who was who?
The Queen of Spain and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg, I think.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Pendragon
Ship's swordbearer
# 8759
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Posted
Queen of Spain was the one in the very tall Mantilla-according to the answer to the comment I made about said item of apparel.
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Not a particuarly GLE
Everything will be OK in the end; if it's not OK it's not the end.
(seen on a fridgemagnet)
Posts: 392 | From: Coventry | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sacristan
Shipmate
# 3548
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
Did La Reina Sofia in that all-white get-up with veil remind anyone else of an overgrown First Communion girl?
HRH is entitled to the privilege du blanc as are other Roman Catholic queens and the Grand Duchess of Luxenbourg.
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More abomination, more abomination
Posts: 1008 | From: West of Gotham | Registered: Nov 2002
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Sacristan
Shipmate
# 3548
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
My understanding is that St John Lateran is still the cathedral of Rome. Does anyone know if popes still get enthroned there, and if there are any plans for Benedict XVI?
St. John Lateran is the Cathedral for the Diocese of Rome. Yes, he is going to be enthroned there.
I seem to recall that St. Peter's is actually the patriarchal church for the Patriarch of Constantinople when in Rome. Could anyone else confirm/deny this bit of useless trivia?
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More abomination, more abomination
Posts: 1008 | From: West of Gotham | Registered: Nov 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sacristan:
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
Did La Reina Sofia in that all-white get-up with veil remind anyone else of an overgrown First Communion girl?
HRH is entitled to the privilege du blanc as are other Roman Catholic queens and the Grand Duchess of Luxenbourg.
It looks like a wedding dress to me. Why do RC queens get to wear white?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sacristan
Shipmate
# 3548
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Posted
Just 'cause.
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More abomination, more abomination
Posts: 1008 | From: West of Gotham | Registered: Nov 2002
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Sacristan
Shipmate
# 3548
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Posted
Well, a bit or research (very little, you all must understand) has provided this about the privilege du blanc . Please scroll down to about the 10th paragraph.
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More abomination, more abomination
Posts: 1008 | From: West of Gotham | Registered: Nov 2002
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Sarum-mental
Apprentice
# 9300
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Posted
The fact that there were only two Roman Catholic highnesses at the inauguration was perhaps the most striking example of how the world has changed since the Reformation. At first it was a bit shocking to see the two figures in white with mantillas and then it dawned on me who the "last of their kind" were....
Of course, if Benedict chooses a coronation later perhaps one of the Bonapart heirs would be available to do the honours.
Oh, and the commentary about the pallium's model given by ABC/Vatican feed gave Tours as the French city where the original is kept by the chapter. That of course would be a tie to St. Martin's see.
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
The Queen of the Belgians is also a catholic monarch and so would be accorded the privilege. I assume she wasn't there.
Monaco and Liechtenstein are also catholic monarchies but letting in Grand Duchesses is one thing, including mere Princesses is probably one step too far down the hierarchy.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Is it now time to rename this thread "MW 1008: Papal Coronation"?
I loved reading the report, by the way, except the bit about Benedict looking old and tired. I was struck how sprightly and happy he looked, for a man of his age faced with the vocation he has now to fulfil.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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