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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Heaven: Poll: Dress For Success
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Funerals/Museums/Concerts/Etc. - Suit with tie.
Museums? No. Casual wear to a museum, unless it's the opening reception for a show.
quote:
California - We have our own standards, you are just going to have to look like the rest of us. Shorts and thongs are sometimes appropo where they wouldn't be elsewhere.
Very true--you can even wear shorts and flip flops out to dinner at some restaurants here. But you'd better have the right shorts, and the flip flops shouldn't be worn out and ratty-looking.
quote:
Hollywood/New York - All black if you live/work in Hollywood even when you can cook eggs on the sidewalk its so bloody hot.
Also very true, at least of Hollywood (don't know about New York). Those people are crazy. But if I had stayed in the job I briefly had in Hollywood, I'd have bought black clothes.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
As someone said earlier, there's far too much grunge. It seems that grunge and general sartorial sloppiness seems to pass for "casual"
I do a lot of weddings and funerals as organist. I am amazed at what people will wear to these occasions. At a recent very elegant wedding the Matron of Honor had delivered her first child 5 days earlier by emergency C-section. She was determined to walk down that long aisle at her sister's wedding. However, she was still a little wobbly and needed to be escorted very gingerly by her husband who wore jeans and a plaid shirt, no tie, and motorcycle boots. I'm not suggesting that he needed an Armani suit but since he was a de facto member of the procession he should have had the good sense to dress more appropriately.
I'm not sure how dress codes might apply to the departed, but I also did a funeral for an avid bingo player. Her family, I'm sure with the best of intentions, had her decked out in her favorite bingo outfit, jeans, sweatshirt, with her bag of lucky bingo chips in her hand. What can I say! They're really lovely people but.................
I also did a funeral where one of the ushers had to discreetly approach one of the mourners in the pew and ask that he remove his baseball cap while in the church.
(Shake head in disbelief) There really are no standards any more!
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
So, I'm guessing you won't want to play at my funeral then, Organmeister, given my above-stated desire to be buried in my jeans.
I think the bingo lady's family did just right. If there's one time in your life you should be able to be dressed in a way that's really "you," it should certainly be the last time.
However, I agree about weddings. One of our qualifications for hiring a wedding photographer was that he should be able to show up to the ceremony in a suit ... I hate seeing a formal wedding with a jeans-clad photographer or videographer slouching all over the place.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Cruelly, it can be as bad to overdress as to underdress. So unless you have worked in a particular environment it is very hard to know what is expected.
This is generally not the case in the US for job interviews. The outfit I wore to the first interview for the job I have now is something I'd never wear to work (dress skirt and jacket, and I even wore stockings), and I was dressed more formally than everyone else in the room, but I'm sure they all approved. Here it's okay if the interviewee is dressed more formally than the people conducting the interview because it's the person looking for a job who is on trial.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
Actually, I think Chicagoans have been notorious in the past for their love of all things black. I once heard someone say that folks in Chicago will wear black until something darker comes along.
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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leonato
Shipmate
# 5124
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Posted
On dressing for interviews:
I beleive the rule should be, dress as you would be expected to dress for that job, or marginally smarter.
Wearing a suit when the job would never require a suit just looks like you are trying too hard. If a suit is standard in that company make sure you wear a good suit and a well-tied tie.
That said, a shirt and tie rarely looks over-dressed.
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leonato... Much Ado
Posts: 892 | From: Stage left | Registered: Oct 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Funerals/Museums/Concerts/Etc. - Suit with tie.
Museums? No. Casual wear to a museum, unless it's the opening reception for a show.
Yes, I was surprised at this one. Concerts depends on concerts of what - you might wear something different to the Royal Opera than you would to the White Stripes. Museums are places you pop into & unless it was some do you were specifically invited to you would no more dress up than you would dress up to go to the supermarket.
I was once invited to one of the opening ceremonies of the new Great Hall at the British Musem (I think they had 5!) and asked to wear suti & tie. I did, but in fact at least half of the men didn't. (It wasn't the one with the Queen though)
quote:
quote:
Hollywood/New York - All black if you live/work in Hollywood even when you can cook eggs on the sidewalk its so bloody hot.
Also very true, at least of Hollywood (don't know about New York). Those people are crazy. But if I had stayed in the job I briefly had in Hollywood, I'd have bought black clothes.
I'm at work now. The two other men nearest me at the desk and myself are all wearting black T-shirts and black jeans. The other two are wearing black trainers with black socks - but I'm wearing black Docs. So it must work in London as well ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Funerals/Museums/Concerts/Etc. - Suit with tie.
Museums? No. Casual wear to a museum, unless it's the opening reception for a show.
....
I'm just the messenger there. The Teutonic Goddess weighed in with that one while I was posting.
Personally, I'd be fine in a thong at the museum, just for Trudy, of course. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leonato:
I beleive the rule should be, dress as you would be expected to dress for that job, or marginally smarter.
Having both interviewed and been interviewed, that is genuinely not the case. Candidates and interviewers consistently dress more formally than they would in normal daily work.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It's ironic really that in these days of equal opportunities at work an interview is one place where you really do have to wear gender-specific clothing.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leonato:
Wearing a suit when the job would never require a suit just looks like you are trying too hard.
Not true in the US. We recently hired a new custodian at the church where I work, and a few of the applicants showed up for interviews in dress shirt and tie (no coat). This didn't say "trying too hard" to the person conducting the interviews; it said, "I am taking this very seriously because I really want this job."
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
It's ironic really that in these days of equal opportunities at work an interview is one place where you really do have to wear gender-specific clothing.
I would hire a woman in a pant suit. And have.
And to not wear a suit to an interview for anything more than a Slave Monkey position is to lose the job.
Period.
Unless you are Ghandi and Bill Gates in one person. Even then you should wear a suit just in case. Sans-turban.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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leonato
Shipmate
# 5124
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by leonato:
I beleive the rule should be, dress as you would be expected to dress for that job, or marginally smarter.
Having both interviewed and been interviewed, that is genuinely not the case. Candidates and interviewers consistently dress more formally than they would in normal daily work.
Perhaps my experience in academia is unusual then, where trousers and a shirt (no tie)would be perfectly acceptable. I've had interviewers dressed exactly as they would normally dress for work, casual trousers, sweaters and all.
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leonato... Much Ado
Posts: 892 | From: Stage left | Registered: Oct 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Ah, but there's one rule for interviewers and another for interviewees. At the outset of my working life, I was once interviewed by a longhaired man in a T-shirt and well-worn jeans who chain-smoked into a bucket throughout the interview.
Of course it's entirely possible that had I behaved in just the same way, he'd have regarded me as a kindred spirit and given me the job on the spot, but it didn't occur to me at the time.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Ah, but there's one rule for interviewers and another for interviewees. ...
Exactly. One group is looking to gain something from being there; the other is not. Who do you think should be more careful about their appearance?
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leonato:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by leonato:
I beleive the rule should be, dress as you would be expected to dress for that job, or marginally smarter.
Having both interviewed and been interviewed, that is genuinely not the case. Candidates and interviewers consistently dress more formally than they would in normal daily work.
Perhaps my experience in academia is unusual then, where trousers and a shirt (no tie)would be perfectly acceptable. I've had interviewers dressed exactly as they would normally dress for work, casual trousers, sweaters and all.
Again, I don't know about the UK, but in the US when you interview for a job in academia, you wear formal business attire, especially for a university position.
After years of wearing t-shirts and jeans we all had to go out and shop for real clothes at the end of grad school, which cost real money most of us didn't have. Some people borrowed the money, others bought on credit, and others went to thrift and consignment shops. We had mock interviews to prepare us for hitting the academic job market, and people who were not dressed appropriately were told to re-think their look.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leonato:
Perhaps my experience in academia is unusual then, where trousers and a shirt (no tie)would be perfectly acceptable.
Yes it is, as I explained at length in my long boring post on the previous page. There is a sort of heirarchy of formality with business at the top & universities are near the bottom
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
....If nothing else buy yourself a nose hair trimmer....
You mean you don't have to rip them out of your head while driving on your daily commute? Cool.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
It's ironic really that in these days of equal opportunities at work an interview is one place where you really do have to wear gender-specific clothing.
Yes, Ariel, but I look so godawful in anything off-the-shoulder.
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Don't listen to the Americans about a "dress shirt", its a concept that doesn't exist here, or if it does it doesn't filter throug to the mundane world of work. If you asked for one in a shop they might try to sell you the kind of shirt you wear with a dinner jacket, which is very much not what you want. The point is to wear a shirt that goes with a suit, or with clothes as much like a suit as you can afford if you don't have a suit.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) A dress shirt does go with a suit, it's designed to go well with a suit. It also goes nicely by itself with khakis or slacks for less formal occasions, which a job interview is not one of.
Just so we're communicating clearly, these are dress shirts. (Perhaps you call them something else in your land.)
Just to hammer the nail down more, "dress shirts" are those shirts made to be worn with a tie. They have wider collars to cover the tie, they don't have epaulets or bellows pockets, pocket flaps, are either solid colors or muted patterns.
Papio, to help you out, here are some job interview "must do's":
1) Show up at least 5-10 minutes early. Many times you'll run into last-minute delays, anything from a stuck elevator to a traffic jam to an overly-crowded waiting room. Being late to a job interview is a kiss of death.
2) Brush your teeth before the interview. If you eat prior to the interview, brush your teeth again. Food particles inyour teeth are singularly repellant.
3) Make sure your fly is zipped shut. Unless you're interviewing as a stripper at the Boom Boom Lounge, flying low is a bad idea.
4) Wear clean, ironed clothes. No food stains, unrepaired holes or tears, missing buttons, weirdly folded shirt collars or coat lapels.
5) Clean hair and fingernails are non-negotiable. No weird hair styles like spiked mohawks or anything that makes your head look like you're wearing a neon-colored sea anemone. Remove any facial jewelry other than a discrete earring.
6) Be polite, civil and courteous during the interview.
The sites listed below give you excellent advice.
One thing I can't stress enough is, act professionally at all times. Act like a professional and almost all times you'll be treated like one. If you go into an interview with a bad attitude ("It's all bollocks, innit?" or, "All you people are pathetic!"), trust me, it will come across, but you won't as you'll be shown the door quickly.
Yeah, there's a certain amount of hypocrisy in interviewing and everyone knows it, but everyone plays by its rules. Most times, you always dress better at interviews than you do on the job. No interviewer expects you to volunteer to work for her company just for the privilege of it. The point is, in a job interview you are selling a product: Yourself. If you want a job, you have to do what it takes to make yourself attractive to the buyer: The potential employer.
Job interview tips #1
Excellent job tips #2
Tips from monster.com
[ 14. June 2005, 17:53: Message edited by: KenWritez ]
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction
My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com
Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
There are real cultural and national differences of course. And in general, after working for a US company for 14 years, I can say the Americans tend to take formal clothing at work more seriously than we do. But even in Britain it is almost never a bad move to wear a suit and tie to an interview.
Though there are regional differences in the US. New York was our poshest large office, all suits & ties, then Houston, then Tulsa, then wherever-it-was in California, with Denver the most informal. Unless they were doing it as a joke - we had a videoconference once where they were wearing cowboy hats. Indoors?
There are some circles where suit without tie would be more acceptable than tie without suit, such as some parts of advertising or film making. But even there I suspect it is rarely wrong to wear the full clobber.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gremlin
Ship's Cryptanalyst
# 129
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
And am beginning to see why my skills and qualifications have not yet landed me a job.
Skills and qualifications won't ever land you the job... they can only get you the interview. Once you've met the people involved, who you are, and how you present yourself are much more important. Afterall, for many interviewers, the real question is not 'can this person do the job' but 'do I want to spend my working days with this person'.
Of course, 'professional' interviewers from the HR department won't have to work with the janitor. But every serious interview process must involve people actually involved in the department being interviewed for.
If you want a job that's worth having, I am 99.9% certain that you need to wear a suit to the interview.
Btw, my new job is just fine thanks, and I wore my best suit to the interview, and wouldn't even have considered wearing anything less formal. I now wear slacks & t-shirt, or polo-shirt, or collared shirt at work - it's really up to me.
Gremlin
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Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Ahhh...I see the screw-up fairy has visited us again...
Oh I get it... like humour... but different.
Posts: 5221 | From: Isle of Man | Registered: May 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
I would add to Kenwritez excellent interview list the following FWIW:
Is your resume absolutely, positively PERFECT and does it fit on ONE page (academia excluded)? Errors on a resume are COMPLETELY unacceptable (and I see them way more often than I like).
I recommend that you walk in with a nice leather type folder/binder in hand so you can take notes, with multiple copies of your resume (on offwhite paper), and multiple copies of your three best references on another sheet of the same offwhite paper. That way if they ask for your references you can hand it to them, if not, hand it to them anyway so you look prepared.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gremlin:
quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
And am beginning to see why my skills and qualifications have not yet landed me a job.
Skills and qualifications won't ever land you the job... they can only get you the interview. Once you've met the people involved, who you are, and how you present yourself are much more important. Afterall, for many interviewers, the real question is not 'can this person do the job' but 'do I want to spend my working days with this person'.
...
Good point. Someone without the skills and qualifications won't get an interview in the first place.
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
TrudyTrudy, I'll be glad to play your funeral service even if you want to be laid out in jeans. Would you consider "dressy" jeans? I'm sure Ralph Lauren has just the thing for you.
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
Actually, as I think I prefer a closed casket, it's just occurred to me that I really can wear what I like, and even the organist won't know or care.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Another pond difference! Over here, as I think it was Ken said earlier, a dress shirt is one to go with black tie, dinner suit. I don't think we have a specific name to go with a shirt you wear with a tie - just call it 'a shirt you wear with a tie'.
M
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
A dress shirt generally refers to a long-sleeved button-up collared shirt. Over here, you might say, "Just wear a dress shirt and a pair of khakis, dear."
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
Papio --
Reinforcing M's point and Ken's -- in the UK a "dress shirt" means the kind of shirt worn with dinner dress. It certainly does not mean what we in North America mean by the term. Do not go looking for a dress shirt.
What the NOrth Americans mean and what you want, is a standard white (or blue, just possibly) shirt. The kind with a collar. But it has to be ironed, not crumpled. As someone said, wander through M&S and they usually have shirt and tie combinations on display. As you have suits, I should be astonished if you don't have one -- after all, how else would you wear the tie you probably have lurking around in the back of the wardrobe. Unless of course, you use it as a belt ![[Smile]](smile.gif) .
Best of luck.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Gremlin
Ship's Cryptanalyst
# 129
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Is your resume absolutely, positively PERFECT and does it fit on ONE page (academia excluded)? Errors on a resume are COMPLETELY unacceptable (and I see them way more often than I like).
In a professional role in IT, for eg., a one page CV simply can not hold enough detail for me to understand a candidate. Two pages is the advice I'd give, and more is acceptable if you have a lot of relavent experience. Of course, I don't want to start a pond war over this - it just sounds like a different approach. I just expect to know more before I interview someone.
But I quite agree about the accuracy issue! Errors in a CV/resume are just going to get your application thrown straight in the bin, because I can't be bothered to read something you can't be bothered to check before you send it to me!
Bear in mind that many interviewers are taking time out from their real jobs (in their own eyes) to see you, and find job applicant filtering & interviewing an annoying distraction from the interesting things in life. Therefore you should go out of your way to make sure your application & CV are easy to read, and that you're pleasant and polite at interview. Get up someone's nose at any stage in the process, and you're likely to hear little more than 'thanks but no thanks' from that point on.
quote:
I recommend that you walk in with a nice leather type folder/binder in hand so you can take notes, with multiple copies of your resume (on offwhite paper), and multiple copies of your three best references on another sheet of the same offwhite paper. That way if they ask for your references you can hand it to them, if not, hand it to them anyway so you look prepared.
I have to say that that would be over-the-top for an interview in the UK.
Your resume (or CV) should already be in their hands, so there's no need to take along extras. I've never seen an interviewee take notes (let alone bring along 'a nice leather type folder/binder'), and never received interview advice to suggest such a thing is good practice - whether or not it is, being another question, of course
Taking along copies of your references might be done, but it's rare in my experience. And, oh!, to have the luxury of being able to chose my 'three best references'! If you've been in your last job for more than five years, it's hard enough to get two sufficiently independent and relevant references. Having a note from your priest/minister/doctor saying you're a regular attender (e.g.), just doesn't cut it in IT! (Obviously there are jobs where you can substitute other roles for 'priest/minister/doctor' as they might actually be relevant )
Gremlin
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Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Ahhh...I see the screw-up fairy has visited us again...
Oh I get it... like humour... but different.
Posts: 5221 | From: Isle of Man | Registered: May 2001
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
OK, I have three choices of shirt without buying a new one (all from charity shops).
Shirt A - White, fits, cuff-links (which I have), looks expensive. White not really my colour (apparently)
Shirt B - Light Green (better), Fits, Doesn't look expensive at all.
Shirt C - Dark Green (Best of all), Looks neither expensive nor inexpensive. Slightly too small (not tight around chest or waist, but there is no visible cuff whatsoever when I have my suit jacket on).
Shirt D - One I would have to buy tomorrow morning. Pref like Shirt C but fits better.
I genuinely don't have a tie.
Suit - Black pinstripe, three buttons at front and 3 on sleeves, from Burtons but bought for £10. They are still selling them in Burton's however.
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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page
Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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Gremlin
Ship's Cryptanalyst
# 129
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Posted
If you're wearing a black pin-stripe suit, I would suggest the white shirt (especially as it fits properly, unlike the dark green one), and if you're prepared to buy a shirt tomorrow morning, I suggest you should pick up a simple tie - say plain red, or light blue. No stripes, no spots, no checks, no yellows, no greens.
Alternatively (and probably wiser), listen to whatever babybear posts on this subject in the morning ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Gremlin
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Too many freaks, not enough circuses.
Ahhh...I see the screw-up fairy has visited us again...
Oh I get it... like humour... but different.
Posts: 5221 | From: Isle of Man | Registered: May 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
I second Gremlin's point about the white shirt. If it fits, you cannot go wrong with white. And the tie (I cannot emphasize this enough) must be 100% silk. Anything else is just plain wrong. Solid color is good. A simple tiny pattern is acceptable, but nothing overly bold. (Save those for parties.)
Black dress shoes and socks. Make sure your shoes are polished.
Good luck, Papio!
[carp spelling - again]
[ 14. June 2005, 22:57: Message edited by: Campbellite ]
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
Sorry for the double post, but it occurred to me that if you do not currently own a tie, you might need a little help on how to tie your tie.
I prefer the Pratt knot. (Kidding aside, John Pratt invented this knot.)
[Think silk. Polyester makes the baby Jesus cry.]
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sine Nomine*
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631
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Posted
To echo Campbellite, get a good quality tie, even if you think it's shockingly expensive. People notice your tie. They really, really do. And you just look more competent somehow in a good quality one.
The saleswoman who helps me pick my ties is invaluable. I never would pick what she suggests but they're always smashing looking. Different, but not too different. It's a fine line.
(I use a Windsor knot myself most of the time since I'm not very big and most ties would be too long otherwise.)
Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002
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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238
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Posted
Black pinstripe suit? White shirt. Definitely. Make sure it's clean and pressed. Save the green shirts for St. Patrick's Day. (You have that over there, right?)
Your shoes should always match your belt. In your case, a black suit = black leather for both belt and shoes. Screw the vegans. (Send Greenpeace a donation out of your first paycheck if you must.) No bizarre, cartoon character or slogan belt buckles, okay? A simple gold or dark metal latch-and-pin, and that's all.
Black shoes = black crew or black over-the-calf dress socks. Always, always, always.
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction
My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com
Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
For the tie, may I suggest something in red?
Good luck, Papio!
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
I have never had to wear a suit to work. Probably because I have had 3 years working in IT, and 4 in the charitable sector.
Just as well too. Being both financially and environmentally aware I ride a bicycle. Bicycles ruin clothes. I define even Sine Nominee to find a way round that.
(NB: if he can I'd be very interested to know because I do like to look smart)
At any rate, menswear down here in NZ is excrecable (womenswear by contrast is rather good). Suits are only available in black, it's rare to see someone wear a suit that actually fits him, generally people treat formal menswear as a uniform more than anything else, except for the odd few who inadvertantly make themselves look like pimps.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(I use a Windsor knot myself most of the time since I'm not very big and most ties would be too long otherwise.)
Thanks; noted. My baby daughter will be baptised next month, and I WILL wear a suit. For the first time this year.
(I'm also pretty short)
Being on holiday I have spent the last few days sewing patches onto the seats of my jeans. Due to my cycling habits they were starting to wear through and become quite indecent.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Papio.:
OK, I have three choices of shirt without buying a new one (all from charity shops).
Shirt A - White, fits, cuff-links (which I have), looks expensive. White not really my colour (apparently)
Shirt B - Light Green (better), Fits, Doesn't look expensive at all.
Shirt C - Dark Green (Best of all), Looks neither expensive nor inexpensive. Slightly too small (not tight around chest or waist, but there is no visible cuff whatsoever when I have my suit jacket on).
Shirt D - One I would have to buy tomorrow morning. Pref like Shirt C but fits better.
I genuinely don't have a tie.
Suit - Black pinstripe, three buttons at front and 3 on sleeves, from Burtons but bought for £10. They are still selling them in Burton's however.
Suit OK. White shirt. Strong colours are best avoided, they'll look a little eccentric, and with a formal black suit, a bit overpowering. Leave the pale green at home until you've got the job. Tie, something discreet. Grits suggested red, dark red would be a possibility but avoid the more eye-catching shades. Blue is usually a safe choice; mid-blue would give a bit of colour without being too flamboyant. Just don't go for a bow tie.
And don't feel embarrassed about asking the shop assistant for advice. Just say you need something suitable for an interview and firmly resist any attempt to sell you a bright purple one with Homer Simpson on it.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
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Posted
What a privilege to be in the virtual company of so many well-dressed men -- or even men who may look like slobs, but at least know better. And congratulations, Papio. You've found the first little sliver of common ground between Ken and Mad Geo.
I was stuck by the comment that people don't like to wear well-tailored clothes because they're perceived as "trendy." That seems utterly off-base to me. Well-tailored clothing is timeless. What's "trendy" is the under-35 uniform of ill-fitting jeans, trainers in colors that gentlemen should abandon by kindergarten, and tee shirts that offer up one's sternum as free advertising for bands, athletic teams, schools, corporate logos, or idiotic slogans about beer or politics that nobody but the wearer finds funny.
I noticed a very well-dressed man on the subway a few weeks ago. He wasn't handsome by any traditional definition, but just looked particularly suave and pulled together in an attractively beefy James Gandolfini kind of way. When he reached up to grab the railing, I could see a label inside his coat that said Raleigh's, a local men's store that's been defunct for about 15 years. And no doubt it flattered him now as much as it flattered him during the waning years of the Reagan administration. Amortized over two decades, what was a pricey jacket back then actually costs him only pennies each time he wears it. Which is why cheap "trendy" clothes are much more of a financial extravagance than a few well-tailored pieces that you'll have for a lifetime.
Posts: 2450 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2001
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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34
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Posted
To re-iterate advice given
The black pinstripe suit with the expensive looking white shirt is definitely the way to go. Black shoes, black socks and black belt are also required.
I disagree with the advice about a silk tie. It would be lovely to have a silk tie, they feel great and hang beautifully. However, for an interview for a recent graduate a silk tie is not required.
Please do not get a navy blue or brown tie to wear with a black suit. It will jar. The same will be true of ties with large patterns. The tie is there to inject a bit of colour and direct attention to the face. Think colourful, whilst being understated.
I suggest a red, purple or blue tie with a small, subtle pattern. Try to avoid a plain coloured tie and on no account a novelty tie or cartoon tie. Ask the assistant for help.
If you have no recent experience in trying a tie it might be best if you go to the shop wearing your interview clothes and ask the person to tie the tie for you! That way you will be sure of getting a well tied tie.
Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
The Tie Shop (if you have a branch) used to do a good range of not too expensive silk ties. They might still do. Don't pick something that's obviously polyester and looks cheap. First impressions at an interview are what counts and they are made within the first few seconds of your walking through the door.
You can sometimes get ties in plain colours where the fabric has a pattern woven into them, which can look nice.
I'd suggest you practice wearing this stuff before the interview. You need to feel reasonably comfortable in it - if you are obviously ill-at-ease in your interview clothes that won't help you.
Actually, facial piercings are also a thing to avoid. If you have lots of rings and studs and a spike sticking out of your chin, no matter how well qualified you are, that may well cut down your chances.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
I like yellow ties, too.
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
or even men who may look like slobs, but at least know better.
Hey! I resemble that remark! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction
My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com
Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
Agree with the others. White shirt. Dark and well pressed.
If green suits you, which I assume from the shirt discussions it does, then a green tie would be acceptable. A mossy green or a gentle spring green might look nice with the black.
IMHO, plain ties look cheap unless they're silk (and even then they look a bit like a uniform-issue tie), whereas patterned ties can look fine whether or not they're silk. Silk is obviously nicer. Go for a subtle pattern for an interview - perhaps something with a small, repeating geometric pattern. I'm also a huge fan of cravats, especially with a good cravat pin, but they come over as slightly eccentric, which may not be the image you want to convey.
Out of interest, what have you been wearing with your suit, if not a shirt and tie?
Peronel (don't have a tie (female) but always wear the suit to interviews. In my profession a trouser suit for women is the norm.)
[ 15. June 2005, 06:04: Message edited by: Peronel ]
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Peronel
The typo slayer
# 569
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Posted
The first line should read "clean and well pressed"
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Lord, I have sinned, and mine iniquity.
Deserves this hell; yet Lord deliver me.
Posts: 2367 | From: A self-inflicted exile | Registered: Jun 2001
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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
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Posted
quote:
KenWritez wrote: Hey! I resemble that remark!
Now, now, KenWritez. You're very model of a man who has a distinctive and flattering personal style and sticks with it. OK, perhaps that style could best be described as "Don Ho on Some Really Righteous Blotter Acid," but hey -- it works!
Posts: 2450 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2001
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frin
Drinking coffee for Jesus
# 9
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Posted
I quite like stripes or diamonds on a tie, and have seen some lovely ones in beige and cream, or blue and off-white this year.
Depending on your budget, it might be worth having a look in Burtons. They have men's formal shirts for £8 and up and ties from £7. Their geometric shapes ties are really nice, but don't choose the pink unless you are feeling especially confident!
Incidentally, if the interviewer takes all his clothes off, run for the door.
I've got an interview tomorrow and have to go there straight from work, although noone at work knows I have an interview. Any suggestions on how to look smart enough for the interview without letting on that I'm dressed up? My current coworkers tends towards smart casual or just casual in their attire, so wearing my suit (which is a trouser suit, I don't wear skirt suits to interview) would certainly draw attention.
BTW, I always take a folder to interview containing the directions to the place of interview, any documentation that has been requested and my own copy of the application form and/or my CV. If like to imagine that if I suddenly blanked about something, that I would be game enough to ask to refer to my own CV, or to use my copy to guide their attention to relevant things thereupon. I've not had to test this yet. The folder is usually whichever looks the smartest of those I have available.
'frin
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"Even the crocodile looks after her young" - Lamentations 4, remembering Erin.
Posts: 4496 | From: a library | Registered: Apr 2001
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Papio
Ship's baboon
# 4201
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Posted
Right,
Black Leather Shoes are clean, polished and shone.
Shirt is clean and well-pressed.
Socks are black.
Belt is is black leather.
Suit is comfy, well-cleaning and clean.
I don't recognise myself tbh.
Only problem now is: it's pouring with rain and I mean
pouring
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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003
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