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Source: (consider it) Thread: Heaven: Dear Sine...
John Donne

Renaissance Man
# 220

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About this swooning while clutching pearls that ladies do: is that so no-one nicks 'em while they're down for the count?

Also, jen, you know, there is no reason to throw away the last sliver of soap. You should wait til the end of the first shower with the new one, then press the sliver onto the new one (which will be slightly softened and sticky). Over future showers it will meld in with the new one. The effect is quite pleasing and interesting, actually.

That is prolly why the yankee housewife is pissed off with you. Why waste it when you don't have to?

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jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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The 'stick the old sliver on the new bar' trick only works if you use a soap dish and let the soap get damp and mushy. I like my bar of soap solid, so have this nifty wall-mounted magnetic soap holder that I got in the Netherlands ages ago.

Besides, I decided I've let that housewife ghost browbeat me long enough! [Razz]

Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Custard
Shipmate
# 5402

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You have magnetic soap?

--------------------
blog
Adam's likeness, Lord, efface;
Stamp thine image in its place.


Posts: 4523 | From: Snot's Place | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Procrastinus

Ship's Fortean
# 9915

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Dear Master Sine,

Firstly, I must just say how enthralling, nay, enlightening I have found the many and various pearls of wisdom you have been gracious enough to cast amongst us your shipmates.

I seek your advice on a delicate question. Owing to a certain innate sloth and a busy and demanding life, my humble abode frequently reaches a condition where - not to put too finer point on it - I might accept a visit from my closest friends but not strangers or members of my family. Economics dictates an unfortunate lack of house staff; given this how do I politely refuse visits or entry without either giving offense or drawing undue attention to the dishabile of my home ?

Thank you so much,

Procrastinus

--------------------
Dare to be wise; begin.

Posts: 198 | From: Imaginary Future | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Procrastinus:
how do I politely refuse visits or entry without either giving offense or drawing undue attention to the dishabile of my home ?

Simple. When your butler answers the door just have him say "Mr. Procrastinus is not at home to callers."

Oh right. You don't have a staff. That's the problem. Well, actually the problem is you're a slob, but that's none of my business.

Now one does wonder just who the strangers are who might be banging on your door, but that too is none of my business although it does open up some interesting fields for speculation.

So what we're really probably talking about is how do you keep your mother from finding out you're living in a pigsty. Correct?

You must take a two-pronged approach.

First:

GO SEE YOUR MOTHER.

She'll have no reason to come check to see if you're dead or alive if you'd just go see here on a regular basis like a good child should. She's not going to be here forever you know. Don't break her heart.

But just in case she drops by, or if it's some other family member, keep a bath towel near the front door. As soon as the doorbell rings, strip naked and wrap yourself in the towel before answering. Then just peek around the door shyly and say "Oops. Sorry. In the shower. Another time, perhaps." and quickly slam the door shut.

Hopefully they won't notice you're dry as a bone.

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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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I read about a woman who wore a coat to answer the door. IF it was someone she didn't want to see she would make her apology and say that she was just on her way out. If she did want to see them - "I have just arrived home, but do come in." [Big Grin]

Jennifer, have you considered putting your soap slivers into an old sock and using it as a "wonderful body scrubby that lathers effortlessly". If you don't fancy the old sock, you could use the Soap Sliver Saver. I Googled 'soap slivers' can found a lovely page talking about Googling 'soap slivers'.

quote:
Raymond Weisling wrote an essay:Stop Soap Sliver Suffering


I have been restoring the dignity and utility of these tortured, shrugged-off little entities for years, rehabilitating them to provide a little more luxuriant lather in their autumnal days. The process is simple. Soap, when wet, starts to dissolve and soften. But inside it is still quite dry. If a little sliver of soap takes a short bath in warm water it can often become supple enough to conform to the contours of its big brother, the new bar that just arrived. With a little gentle pressure these two will cling together, at first not very tenaciously, but as the relationship develops and each one absorbs something from the slippery, soppy bond, they might well become one until the lesser of the two fades away totally.


Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Codepoet

Best Bear On Board
# 5964

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Sine,
A couple of friends of mine are getting married (to each other). It is an honour for me to be invited to attend the wedding. However the reception afterwards is going to be of the "pile them high and sell them cheap" variaty, with a finger buffet and a guests having to buy their own drinks. Since they are going to have a gazzillion guests too, would it be terribly bad form just to go home after the service? No-one would notice my absence and it would save me from a very tedious few hours.

--------------------
It's more important to be kind than to be right.

Posts: 1156 | From: Southampton | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
MadKaren
Shipmate
# 1033

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The happy couple might notice your absence, even if no one else does. So if you are going to disappear make sure you talk to the bride and groom first. If there's not going to be any tables, that makes it a lot easier to grab them early on.

You could also try being a bit less snobbish. Not all of us have £15000 or so to spend on a wedding (or even think it is a good idea). If they are the friends you say they are, then surely you should love them for who they are. Even if you think it is tacky.

MadKaren

[eta: Go and re-read your signature]

[ 21. August 2005, 08:48: Message edited by: MadKaren ]

--------------------
--
Why do people who claim to love God embarrass him in public?

Posts: 866 | From: Jumping along the line between genius and insanity.... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Codepoet:
would it be terribly bad form just to go home after the service? No-one would notice my absence and it would save me from a very tedious few hours.

Looks like you hit a nerve with MadKaren, Codepoet. She must have charged her "guests" for drinks.

We've got a couple of things going on here.

First of all, they didn't invite you to the church. Not really. They told you when & where the church ceremony was going to be and invited you to the reception. You can't actually invite someone to God's house. (Well you could, but he might get mad and smite you.) If street people wander in to watch the ceremony the ushers are theoretically obligated to seat them. You can't keep people out of a church if they want to come in.

But moving on to the reception: Despite what MadKaren may or may not think, it's tacky beyond belief to pretend to be entertaining people and then ask them to shell out money for their entertainment. It. Just. Is. Period.

If the Happy Couple can't afford alcoholic drinks then they should be serving what they can afford, be it non-alcoholic punch or whatever. Or, on the other hand, cut the guest list to where they can afford to entertain them as they would like. But people getting married (i.e. brides) so often suffer from folie de grandeur. They want to be big shots on a budget and their friends get to pay the price, literally.

So, to finally get to your question: No. You can't skip the reception. But yes, once you have gone through the receiving line and congratulated the groom and expressed your best wishes to the bride (Note my careful phrasing. Don't congratulate the bride.) you may leave. You're not obligated to finance their little clambake.

If the reception is as big as you say it is, your friends will remember you attended and wished them well, but not how long you stayed or when you left.

Now before all you folks who made their guests pay for drinks jump my ass with your whiny explanations and excuses, I suspect there are places and cultures where it may be traditional to make the guests pay for their drinks. Maybe 19th century miners in Cornwall or millworkers in Lancashire or something. But before you pipe up, be sure you're actually from one of those traditions and not just cheap.

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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I was once sent a wedding invitation, not to the actual wedding, which was only for family, but to the reception. It arrived in a brown envelope, and was written in red biro on one of those pre-printed "Come to my party" notes with a frieze of teddy bears and balloons all round it, and there was a little note on the bottom saying bring your own bottle.

Naturally, I ignored it. I am told that those who went were given a plate of sandwiches and expected to make their own entertainment.

The happy couple split up after 18 months. I understand that an argument over spending money was one reason.

[ 21. August 2005, 10:49: Message edited by: Ariel ]

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Naturally, I ignored it.

Of course you did, dear. Any right-thinking person would.

I only respond to invitations with teddybears on them if they're from aquaintances aged 12 and under.

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MadKaren
Shipmate
# 1033

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Looks like you hit a nerve with MadKaren, Codepoet. She must have charged her "guests" for drinks.

Only the ones who wanted to pay for drinks. There were plenty of bottles of various drinks left from the stuff we bought. It took us long enough finish them after people had helped themselves to bottles.

quote:

We've got a couple of things going on here.

First of all, they didn't invite you to the church. Not really. They told you when & where the church ceremony was going to be and invited you to the reception. You can't actually invite someone to God's house. (Well you could, but he might get mad and smite you.) If street people wander in to watch the ceremony the ushers are theoretically obligated to seat them. You can't keep people out of a church if they want to come in.

But moving on to the reception: Despite what MadKaren may or may not think, it's tacky beyond belief to pretend to be entertaining people and then ask them to shell out money for their entertainment. It. Just. Is. Period.

True. But increasingly common. Weddings are becoming more and more expensive for guests and attendants due to a combination of profiteering merchants and higher social expectations. Plus weddings are often planned by groups of people with disparate ideas and views, and sometimes you have to compromise what you want.

Sine, I never said whether I thought it was tacky, I said that if you love your friends, that should outweigh any tackyness on their part.

quote:

If the Happy Couple can't afford alcoholic drinks then they should be serving what they can afford, be it non-alcoholic punch or whatever. Or, on the other hand, cut the guest list to where they can afford to entertain them as they would like. But people getting married (i.e. brides) so often suffer from folie de grandeur. They want to be big shots on a budget and their friends get to pay the price, literally.

Again, agreed. But often the folie de grandeur is on the part of the parents too. They want to impress/outdo their friends on a budget, and the guests pay the price literally instead.

quote:

So, to finally get to your question: No. You can't skip the reception. But yes, once you have gone through the receiving line and congratulated the groom and expressed your best wishes to the bride (Note my careful phrasing. Don't congratulate the bride.) you may leave. You're not obligated to finance their little clambake.

Or if you must stay, the bar should be obliged to give you tap water free.

quote:

If the reception is as big as you say it is, your friends will remember you attended and wished them well, but not how long you stayed or when you left.

Now before all you folks who made their guests pay for drinks jump my ass with your whiny explanations and excuses, I suspect there are places and cultures where it may be traditional to make the guests pay for their drinks. Maybe 19th century miners in Cornwall or millworkers in Lancashire or something. But before you pipe up, be sure you're actually from one of those traditions and not just cheap.

So, you did agree with me in the end, Sine. I'm not sure this thread is so much about advice as a chance for you all to share your middle class worldview. However it is very educational.

MadKaren

--------------------
--
Why do people who claim to love God embarrass him in public?

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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012

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Middle-class? MIDDLE-CLASS? [Eek!]

Sine isn't middle-class, he's high-class, upper-crust, genuine Mr Manners.

[Disappointed]

--------------------
“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”

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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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He was all over me like white on rice when I almost referred to him as "bourgeois" the other day. This is going to really raise his dander. He'll be home from ushering soon, and there'll be heck to pay.

(I do agree that wedding receptions have gotten totally out of hand, yet another reason to be thankful for hanging out with teetotalers.)

--------------------
Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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quote:
Originally posted by MadKaren:
Sine. I'm not sure this thread is so much about advice as a chance for you all to share your middle class worldview.

Ooooh, vicious. Vicious.

But then I suppose people speak from within the limits of their experience.

'Ah, brown! Dat's the colour of money' Spike Milligan: Puckoon

[ 21. August 2005, 16:01: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
John Donne

Renaissance Man
# 220

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Dear Sine

I am acquainted with a stunning lesbian couple and can foresee our friendship growing stronger. Is there any term such as 'fag hag' or 'fruitfly' that could apply to a gentleman who is found in the company of lesbians? I know you are a man of the world - and if there is such a term, you would know it.

They really are fantastic, and possibly my ideal women: Cook (fragrant meals). Clean (absolutely immaculate house). And I don't have to worry about sex.

Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
chive

Ship's nude
# 208

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quote:
Originally posted by Codepoet:
Sine,
A couple of friends of mine are getting married (to each other). It is an honour for me to be invited to attend the wedding. However the reception afterwards is going to be of the "pile them high and sell them cheap" variaty, with a finger buffet and a guests having to buy their own drinks. Since they are going to have a gazzillion guests too, would it be terribly bad form just to go home after the service? No-one would notice my absence and it would save me from a very tedious few hours.

This reminds me of a wedding invitation I recieved that said the reception was in the church hall, there would be a Bible study and could we bring our own sandwiches. I chose not to go to any of it on the grounds I'm allergic to sanctimony. [Disappointed]

--------------------
'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost

Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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What a gem, Chive. The touch about the sandwiches just makes it.

I thought the wedding I went to where we were treated to a 50 minute sermon in which the happy couple were exhorted to 'existenialize the dialectic of marriage' was prime, but that at least had a decent reception at a hotel.

[ 21. August 2005, 16:44: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373

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I'm painting a target on my bottom, I know, but...

I don't think I've ever been to a wedding where the drinks were free.

The most I'd expect would be either a glass of champagne brought round between the service and the meal (during that horrible period while the family are getting their photos taken and everybody else has to mill around uncomfortably); or first drink at the bar free during that time. And wine with the meal, if it's sit down.

(Assuming this is a traditional wedding, of course - many of my friends just met their mates down the pub after the registry office.)

But at the evening reception you're on your own. You might get a wee glass of something on arrival, but even that isn't compulsory.

Maybe I just know really mean people. Or Scots drink too much to make an open bar practical.

--------------------
It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
chive

Ship's nude
# 208

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I agree Rat. In my experience in Scotland one is far more likely to have an open bar at a funeral than a wedding.

--------------------
'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost

Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by The Coot:
Dear Sine

I am acquainted with a stunning lesbian couple and can foresee our friendship growing stronger. Is there any term such as 'fag hag' or 'fruitfly' that could apply to a gentleman who is found in the company of lesbians? I know you are a man of the world - and if there is such a term, you would know it.

I tend to really get along with lesbians, too, in an asexual way. One of my lesbian friends says I am a dyke-hag.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by MadKaren:
So, you did agree with me in the end, Sine. I'm not sure this thread is so much about advice as a chance for you all to share your middle class worldview. However it is very educational.

Well you see, in America we only have one class: middle class. We have lower middle class, middle middle class, and upper middle class.

But there's a reason this thread is called "Ask Sine" and not "Ask MadKaren". It's considered polite to let the official advice dispenser share his middle class worldview before jumping in with alternate points of view.

But that's Ok. All is forgiven. I could tell you had issues and I'm just glad there was a forum where you could get them out. Doesn't do to stuff things. Might cause a disfiguring nervous rash or something.

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by The Coot:
Is there any term such as 'fag hag' or 'fruitfly' that could apply to a gentleman who is found in the company of lesbians?

This sort of relationship is of course rarer than the 'fag hag' version. But if you must have a term, you might be called either a 'dyke tyke' or 'Dutch boy'.

Don't ask me how I know these things.

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Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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You know, I just tried to lay down for my afternoon nap but felt something was wrong.

MadKaren, I let my ego get the best of me, and I shouldn't have. I apologize for being snarky on what should be a light-hearted little Heaven thread.

-Sine

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Codepoet

Best Bear On Board
# 5964

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
quote:
Originally posted by The Coot:
Is there any term such as 'fag hag' or 'fruitfly' that could apply to a gentleman who is found in the company of lesbians?

This sort of relationship is of course rarer than the 'fag hag' version. But if you must have a term, you might be called either a 'dyke tyke' or 'Dutch boy'.

... or just VERY LUCKY. Isn't this the stuff of fantasy? [Big Grin]

--------------------
It's more important to be kind than to be right.

Posts: 1156 | From: Southampton | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238

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Linen blazer-wearing Host on

Sine and MadKaren: You are both familiar enough with Heaven to know personal attacks aren't allowed.

Sine, you've apologized, so there's nothing more I need say on your end.

MK, take it to Hell if you want to continue in that vein. I'm not asking for an apology, just saying don't make personal attacks in Heaven.

Linen blazer-wearing Host off

--------------------
"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction

My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com

Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439

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Dear Sine,

Recently my husband and I returned from a lovely trip abroad to find (in the mountain of mail awaiting us) an anonymous letter accusing us of having left our garbage cans in an offensively conspicuous spot for maybe three days before our departure. It was signed "Your neighbors on X Lane." The possibility of our contributing to falling property values was mentioned.

The letter provided us with a good laugh and also led to our discussing how we might cause as many sleepless nights as possible to what is obviously our own personal Blockfuehrer, without excessive inconvenience to ourselves. I would be curious to hear your thoughts on the matter.

--------------------
Bad Christian (TM)

Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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Oh dear. I've been meaning to leave an anonymous note to the thoughtless jerk neighbor who parks his/her SUV too close to the alley entrance I use to get to and from my parking area in the back of my house. I can't see to pull out and am going to get creamed some morning. So I'm really not the best person to ask.

I live in an inner-city neighborhood with small (50') lots, so one needs almost a Japanese sense of courtesy to get along. You've also got to pretend not to see and hear stuff too.

And one of my tenants left her garbage bags on the fire escape last night rather than carrying them down to the trash cans, so I'm really, really not the best person to ask.

I guess you've got put your ego aside and ask yourself if where you left your garbage cans actually was unsightly. Also deliberately annoying neighbors can be dangerous. You never know when you're living next door to a nut with a gun. I'd be cautious if I were you.

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Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
You never know when you're living next door to a nut with a gun.

Yes, that had occurred to us too. <sigh> So now every time the garbage is collected we dutifully put away the damn cans.

You know, of course, Sine, that if you ever were to write that anonymous letter, the very paper it was written on would scream out your name.

--------------------
Bad Christian (TM)

Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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Well yes. I thought of that. The only paper I have around here is Crane's and has my name and address engraved on it, but I could always cut it off.

Which does raise the question "Should anonymous threats be written on full size sheets or informals?"

I'm guessing anonymous threats should be brief such as "You and yours are all going to die if you don't move your frickin SUV" so informals would be suitable.

But do make sure you center them properly on the page and only use blue or blue/black ink.

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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Oooh dear!

I thought that red ink was most suitable for writing threatening notes. [Hot and Hormonal] I fear I have made a faux pas. [Hot and Hormonal]

Posts: 13287 | From: Cottage of the 3 Bears (and The Gremlin) | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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If I might offer an alternative suggestion, I would have thought one thing to do might be to get a copy of some suitable newspaper or magazine and cut out the relevant words, or letters if necessary, and assemble them on a pleasing and tasteful sheet of plain cream paper.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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There might be a difficulty approaching the necessary level of uncouth belligerence with only the Guardian and the London Review of Books for source material.

And cream? Winter white would surely set off newsprint more effectively?

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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Or the Times and Country Life.

"Dear Sir, I regret that I am forced to inform you that unless you remove your XXXX from my XXXX, your estate will be overrun with hunt saboteurs, foxes will dig holes in your paddock, and your economy will suffer badly from an above-inflation rise with effect from the next budget."

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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826

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Dear Sine:

I am in an informal caregiving situation with my 80-something mother. One of my tasks is taking Mother grocery shopping. To my distress, when we enter the supermarket, Mother begins treating me as if I were a small, wayward child, loudly chiding me for any number of things, usually involving my own grocery list ("Why are you looking at that? You're not going to buy any of that, are you?" "You're spending too much money" "Why do you always have to buy something different?" "Now, don't you buy any of that"), speaking loudly about other, anonymous shoppers ("Do you see the way she's dressed? Tsk!" "He looks like he's 'on' something"), or informing me of the latest manifestation of her own (usually gastrointestinal) ailments.

What is the polite way, if any, to respond to this running supermarket commentary? So far, my response has been to assume an expression of martyrdom as other shoppers pass us, as if to say, "Yes, she's been like this for awhile now." (Actually Mom is as sharp as a tack, and I think her shtik is some sort of passive-agression on her part.)

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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com

Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
maleveque
Shipmate
# 132

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Lutheranchik:
Do you have Peapod where you live?
Have your groceries delivered - it doesn't cost a whole lot and you avoid all those embarrassing scenes.
Anne L.

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Life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie.

Posts: 1496 | From: Washington, DC or thereabouts | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Miffy

Ship's elephant
# 1438

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If I might be permitted to poke my nose into the garbage disposal problem...

Anna, why not use one of these to diguise your 'unsightly' rubbish bin? [Big Grin] (It's the horticultural equivalent of the knitted tea cosy that some folks here use to hide their loo rolls under). Train a couple of rose bushes up the sides and your neighbours will soon be thanking you for raising property values, not lowering them.

Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sine Nomine*

Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 3631

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quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
What is the polite way, if any, to respond to this running supermarket commentary? So far, my response has been to assume an expression of martyrdom as other shoppers pass us, as if to say, "Yes, she's been like this for awhile now." (Actually Mom is as sharp as a tack, and I think her shtik is some sort of passive-agression on her part.)

I'm not sure that a mere man™ has much insight to offer on the Mother/Daughter Wars. We probably need input from our resident expert on the subject, Spiffy da Wonder Sheep. Of course you'd think I'd know something about it, having watched my grandmother and my aunt, my mother and my other grandmother, and my sister and our mother go at it for all those years.

But shopping with the elderly is fraught with landmines. I remember taking my grandmother on her semi-annual visit to Merle Norman Cosmetics at the mall in Raleigh, one of my jobs when visiting her in the summer. The poor little sales girl (she looked to be a teen-ager) had to break it to my grandmother that the particular shade of foundation she'd used for twenty-five years was no longer available. The wrath of God broke over the young lady's head. My grandmother was nearly screaming "But what do you expect me to use? What do you expect me to use?" Lord, it was embarrassing.

Looking back though, it was just my grandmother's fear and inability to deal with change that brought out all that emotion. I wonder how your mother really feels about not being able to do her own grocery shopping any more. I wonder how I'll feel when the time comes. Of course I'll be grateful if some kind soul will take me grocery shopping, but I bet I'll be snippy and difficult too*. Because I have a real hard time admitting gratitude and because I'm fearful of what old age may bring. I just hope someone will put up with me.

Of couse if you really wanted to infuriate your mother you could start calling her "dear" in a sickly sweet voice, as in "Now, now dear, don't you worry about what I buy." If she inquires why, inform her "Well, if you're going to talk to me like a child, I'm going to talk to you like an old bat."

(*Actually I'm already snippy and difficult. Just wanted to say it before somebody else did.)

Posts: 10696 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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Despite it being a pain to make two trips, I'd just take her to do her own shopping. She'll grouse about you wasting time, but you can protest that it's nothing and that you can tell that the double shopping trip is wearing on her although she's been too polite [Roll Eyes] to mention it.

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Procrastinus

Ship's Fortean
# 9915

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On a purely practical note, is your grocery store nice enough - or Mum a long standing enough customer - for you to drop her off to do her shopping with the help of 'a nice young man' (shop staff).

Then you could pick her up afterwards for a coffee and bun + mother daughter bonding, around whether said 'nice young man' had a decent hair cut or the good manners you used to be able to expect back in the day.

Tesco and M&S are very good to my ninetyish grandmother, carrying her bags etc.

Wishing you joy and a sufficient stock of patience,

Prock

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Dare to be wise; begin.

Posts: 198 | From: Imaginary Future | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826

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Sine Nomine notes:
quote:
I wonder how I'll feel when the time comes. Of course I'll be grateful if some kind soul will take me grocery shopping, but I bet I'll be snippy and difficult too. Because I have a real hard time admitting gratitude and because I'm fearful of what old age may bring. I just hope someone will put up with me.
Me too. I'm hoping to find a nice codependent partner who will fuss over me in my cantankerous old age and stay my hand before I start whacking bystanders with my footed cane. [Devil]

Re other suggestions: We don't have delivery service here in the wilds of Michigan, and even if we did I suspect it would generate its own set of complaints ("They didn't send the right brand!"). I have had some success with doing stealth shopping on my own -- especially the sort of crunchy-granola and ethnic foods I tend to favor.

I might have to just spend less time at the shopping cart -- my role being primarily chauffeur, reacher-of-objects-on-top-shelves and bag girl, I don't have to shepherd Mom throughout the store. "Oh -- I think you forgot something! Let me go find it!..."

[Code. Preview post is your friend.]

[ 23. August 2005, 06:28: Message edited by: KenWritez ]

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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com

Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Campbellite

Ut unum sint
# 1202

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
If I might offer an alternative suggestion, I would have thought one thing to do might be to get a copy of some suitable newspaper or magazine and cut out the relevant words, or letters if necessary, and assemble them on a pleasing and tasteful sheet of plain cream paper.

Might I suggest the print version of SOF magazine?

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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?

Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
MadKaren
Shipmate
# 1033

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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
You know, I just tried to lay down for my afternoon nap but felt something was wrong.

MadKaren, I let my ego get the best of me, and I shouldn't have. I apologize for being snarky on what should be a light-hearted little Heaven thread.

-Sine

Apology accepted.

KenWritz - I didn't realise calling Sine middle class was an insult. You live and learn I guess.


MadKaren

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--
Why do people who claim to love God embarrass him in public?

Posts: 866 | From: Jumping along the line between genius and insanity.... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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As you can see, he's able to deal with being called middle-class. Heaven help you the day you call him frumpy.

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--Formerly: Gort--

Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238

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MadKaren; I flagged your quote

quote:
I'm not sure this thread is so much about advice as a chance for you all to share your middle class worldview
as a personal attack because in my judgment the connotation of your comment was patronizingly dismissive of Sine's culture and that of all the participating Shipmates on this thread. You may not have meant such, but that's what came across. (To me, anyway.)

Text mediums are tricksy things in a human world.

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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction

My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com

Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
MadKaren
Shipmate
# 1033

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quote:
Originally posted by KenWritez:
MadKaren; I flagged your quote

quote:
I'm not sure this thread is so much about advice as a chance for you all to share your middle class worldview
as a personal attack because in my judgment the connotation of your comment was patronizingly dismissive of Sine's culture and that of all the participating Shipmates on this thread. You may not have meant such, but that's what came across. (To me, anyway.)

Text mediums are tricksy things in a human world.

OK, that's fair.

Sine, I shouldn't have got upset at your response and posted something potentially inflammatory, considering this is meant to be a light hearted thread. Apologies.

MadKaren

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--
Why do people who claim to love God embarrass him in public?

Posts: 866 | From: Jumping along the line between genius and insanity.... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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Without wishing to fan any flames, I'm pretty sure that, traditionally, it has not been considered acceptable for hosts of any social class in the English-speaking world to impose part or all of the cost of their own parties, which they have unilaterally decided to throw, onto their guests.

IIRC, even 12-15 years ago, I was still being invited to events as a guest, with, as often as not, no contribution solicited either in money or in kind. With some exceptions, it was usually possible to convince my own guests that I really was able and willing to provide all the food and drink myself, and that they didn't have to do a thing.

I definitely wasn't brought up with the idea that, when someone decides to throw a party of whatever nature, it's the guests' responsibility to provide for it. I also definitely didn't have a middle-class or wealthy upbringing, and neither did my parents.

I believe that the prohibition against guests' showing up empty-handed/empty-pursed is a contemporary innovation.

I keep hearing that people 'nowadays' are short of money and time, as if most people of previous generations were both leisured and moneyed. When I throw a party now, my guests seem to be uncomprehending of, even upset by, the idea that I'm honestly not asking them to provide any of the food or drink or décor or tableware, and that I might just want to give of myself to them. I wonder how many of them console themselves with the idea that I must have more money than I know what to do with, and probably way too much time on my hands.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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It's an interesting point, Telepath - how did the present guest/host relation evolve?

For my parents, if you invited people, that was it - you provided everything. But that 'everything' probably didn't include wine - alcohol with meals not being a feature of Irish life in those days.

Sometime post-uni, when we were all still pretty poor, bringing a bottle of gutrot to a party was de rigeur (Retsina was good, because no one else would drink it), and as good-as-you-could-afford to a dinner party, on the assumption that it would be consumed with the meal.

Later, you brought a good bottle to your hosts - but as a present, since it would have been impolite to imply that they had not sufficient wines, matched to the food, in their own cellar.

Again, you might offer to bring a starter or dessert - but more as an allowed display of one's own culinary skill level, than as a necessary supplement to one's hosts resources.

So that is the divide, I think: between sharing as a requirement because you can't afford the festivity otherwise - which, if put properly, is a valid position. And sharing, because you want to use the occassion (with the consent of the hosts) to show some particularly interesting vintage.

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881

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Quoth Telepath:

quote:
I believe that the prohibition against guests' showing up empty-handed/empty-pursed is a contemporary innovation.
I'm with you on the empty-pursed, but not on the empty-handed. Maybe this is a North American thing - it may even be a Southern thing. It certainly goes back at least to my grandmother's generation. Upon being invited to dinner at a friend's home, my reflex is "Should I bring anything?"

Any other Americans/Southerners/Texans out there who were raised to never show up empty-handed?

And on the issue of liquor at weddings, I've never been to a wedding that didn't have an open bar. Including my own. Again, maybe a NA thing?

Cheers, OliviaG, maintaining her cultural identity north of the 49th parallel

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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Yes, we usually always take something, be it a little gift, food, whatever. I went to my Bible study at a friend's house today, and I took three loaves of fresh-baked bread. She had gifts for us, as well -- copies of a photo of all of us together, on little easels, placed on the table around a huge glass vase of pink glads.

We don't do anything small.

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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged



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