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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Heaven: Dear Sine...
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
hmm we could start a thread for writing our own mini er novel?
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
It's the rose between the teeth I have problems with. (Yes, as a 14 year old I did try this in the privacy of my own room.) There's just no way you can make it look natural or carry it off in a way that doesn't make you look a bit deranged.
And you'd have to be sure of your rose supplier, as well. I suspect one that's been thoroughly doused in Bordeaux mixture wouldn't do you a deal of good unless you had a copper deficiency.
Deborah
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Website.
Ship of Fools flickr group
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Emma.:
What is the point of doilies? (like my gran used to put oin a plate before putting things on it.. like for tea )
You stumped me on that one and I had to do a little research. I'm not sure this answers your question, but I found it interesting nonetheless:
quote:
Doily's etymology is simple: it comes from the name of a London draper of the late 17th century, a Mr. Doylely. He must have sold a good lot of the stuff to have his name attached to it - it was originally a lightweight and inexpensive woollen cloth for summer wear. By the early 18th century the fabric was being used for ornamental dessert napkins known as doilies (but with myriad spellings); later it came to apply to crocheted or knitted pieces which resembled the napkins.
As to why your gran uses them, I use them too when I have a party. Habit I guess, plus giving the food trays a more finished, cleaner look. On a practical level I've noticed they soak up any grease or oozing from the food and prevent them from sliding around on the tray.
But really, in the end, I think that like the nature of the Holy Trinity, it's just a mystery we have to accept.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adrienne:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
If you are going to do disport yourself on 100% nylon shagpile ...
... you might well benefit from some earthing.
A
That's a good point - do tiger (or leopard) skins minimise rug-burns?
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Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
Dear Uncle Sine,
I believe I have spotted a breach of etiquette on the Ship. Exhibit A. Our intrepid globe-trotter Markie-Mark committed to a Shipmeet. Then he indicated he may opt out of the Shipmeet in order to attend the Messiah. This is rude, no? I think I would be pissed off if I organised a Shipmeet in someone's honour, they said 'Yer cool', then said: 'Oh sorry, I might put you off 'cos there is a performance of the Messiah I might want to go to'.
If there is a way to put off an engagement in one's honour decorously, you would know Uncle Sine. My guess is that it should be accompanied by a humble apology for imposing on people; thanking them kindly for thinking enough of one to organise a Shipmeet; and, with their permission and the hope it will not cause too much inconvenience seeking to arrange an alternate date. One shouldn't say why one needs to change plans I imagine - rather that one has an appointment - let the hosts imagine they are being put off for something of great importance. That's wot I would do, anyway. Am I barking up the right tree?
quote:
Wow. I don't blame you if want to shoot me. But I just found out St. Paul's is doing Handel's Messiah on December 7th. This creates issues.....
I don't think this really cuts it.
It's bloody England in December - someone, somewhere is putting on a performance of the Messiah every day.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
Oh! Coot PLEASE!!! It's Messiah, not THE Messiah.
The choice; between hearing Messiah,
Sung by Paul's very own choir,
Or a special Shipmeet
(maybe no chance to eat)?
Take care; the results could be dire.
Corpus
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
Oh! Coot PLEASE!!! It's Messiah, not THE Messiah.
You pedant!!! You musical snob!
(Coot makes a careful note of the distinction in order to use it on some unsuspecting peasant in turn)
You are right though. I checked it in the Wikipedia.
[Code]
[ 21. November 2005, 21:43: Message edited by: KenWritez ]
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
Hmm...Uncle Sine didn't get his reputation on three continents for extreme tact (when he wants to excercise it) by falling into traps like the one above. So I'm not going to directly answer your question.
However I will say that about 10 years ago I invited someone to dinner who cancelled the afternoon of the party saying "Mr. X just called and asked me out. I've always wanted to date him so I've got to cancel for tonight. I know you'll understand."
I understood all right. Trash. Nothing but trailer trash. A mule dressed up in horse harness. I haven't willingly spoken to him since then, much less invited him to my house.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ann:
quote:
Originally posted by Adrienne:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
If you are going to do disport yourself on 100% nylon shagpile ...
... you might well benefit from some earthing.
A
That's a good point - do tiger (or leopard) skins minimise rug-burns?
Considering the static electricity my cats transmit, I doubt it somehow.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Coot:
You are right though. I checked it in the Wikipedia.
You checked?
You CHECKED?
Well! I proffer my words of wisdom and you "check" them? I'm mortified.
I'll 'ave you know I've sung Messiah in the Royal Albert 'all under the baton of Sir David Willcocks no less. I've sung Messiah so often I'm sick of the bloody thing - not that I liked it much in the first place, but it's the principle. I've lived and breathed Messiah for the sake of me ar'.
And YOU CHECKED?!?!?
Corpus
>handbag snaps shut... door slams... sound of Corporeal stillies clacking down hallway...<
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Eee, and there was I thinking you'd sung Messiah under Sir Tommy Beecham, Corpus. (Oh, Ah loved 'im Ah did)
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Corpus cani
Ship's Anachronism
# 1663
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Posted
Chance'd be a fine thing Amos, but a leettle before my time I think you'll find... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Corpus
[ 20. November 2005, 23:19: Message edited by: Corpus cani ]
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Bishop Lord Corpus Cani the Tremulous of Buzzing St Helens.
Posts: 4435 | From: Trumpton | Registered: Nov 2001
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
Our Cathedral musicians (Three Spires) have a fine reputation which extends well beyond the boundaries of our County.
A church laydee told me this week that she only really enjoyed their recent Messiah performance because she was able to read along to her own copy of the score. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
Posts: 6477 | From: Alice's Restaurant (UK Franchise) | Registered: Sep 2005
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
Oh! Coot PLEASE!!! It's Messiah, not THE Messiah.
I know exactly how you feel. That's my reaction whenever I hear someone say THE Gap.
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
As in, "Please mind the gap," when you're getting on the Tube? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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iGeek
Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
GAP as in clothiers.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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badman
Shipmate
# 9634
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Posted
It works the other way of course. The Underground station may say Temple but everyone says THE Temple. And the street sign may say Strand but everyone says THE Strand (like the song: "Let's all go down the Strand").
And don't even start on the hoi polloi. I mean the polloi. Or is it just hoi polloi. Oh, *bother*.
Posts: 429 | From: Diocese of Guildford | Registered: Jun 2005
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Belisarius
Lord Bountiful of Admin (Emeritus) Delights
# 32
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Posted
<smarty-ass pedant>
Although true that the official title contains no "the," Handel himself alluded to "the Messiah" in his correspondence.
</smarty-ass pedant>
ETA: Enough tangent; I just thought of an etiquette question:
Is it acceptable to take sealed condiments from a restaurant, or is that too greedy?
[ 21. November 2005, 17:01: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
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Animals may be Evolution's Icing, but Bacteria are the Cake.
Andrew Knoll
Posts: 8080 | From: New York | Registered: May 2001
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badman
Shipmate
# 9634
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Posted
Couple of dinner party questions.
If a guest makes a racist or homophobic remark, how do I (1) not spoil the atmosphere or be rude to guest but (2) challenge or at least distance myself from said remark?
When a couple with a hereditary title, who for some reason think it's a big deal and ALWAYS use it, come to dinner, how do I introduce them to other guests without (1) slighting them or (2) suggesting to other guests that I give a flying f*** about a title that the holders have not earned.
Thanks.
Posts: 429 | From: Diocese of Guildford | Registered: Jun 2005
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Badman, do they expect you to address them by title? Or only introduce them? If the latter, introduce them to others by title, then address them all evening as Bess and Phil.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
Oh! Coot PLEASE!!! It's Messiah, not THE Messiah.
I know exactly how you feel. That's my reaction whenever I hear someone say THE Gap.
Oh dear. Do you get annoyed when asked to key in your Pin number?
(Which they have to say, really, because "can you put your Pin in" just sounds stupid.)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani:
Oh! Coot PLEASE!!! It's Messiah, not THE Messiah.
I know exactly how you feel. That's my reaction whenever I hear someone say THE Gap.
They used to have commercials with the tagline "Fall into the Gap," so I'm having a hard time seeing why this is a problem.
Belisarius, it seems to me that taking sealed packages of condiments from a restaurant is tacky unless you've ordered your meal to go.
But Coot's earlier inquiry about MarkthePunk's behavior was much tackier and completely inappropriate.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
<snob mode> A really good restaurant wouldn't offer you sealed packets of condiments anyway, they'd have salt and pepper pots or containers of sauces on the tables. </snob mode>
ETA I think you could get away with pocketing one or two but not half the bowl like some people do.
[ 21. November 2005, 19:51: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
<snob mode> A really good restaurant wouldn't offer you sealed packets of condiments anyway, they'd have salt and pepper pots or containers of sauces on the tables. </snob mode>
Even really good restaurants in the states will have sugar and sugar substitutes in little packets. They may order cool-looking packets, but they'll still be packets. And there will be no containers of sauces on the tables, just salt and pepper shakers, in a really good restaurant. It's the diners that put the ketchup, mustard, hot sauce, etc. on the tables. Wait staff in really good restaurants will bring the sauces that go with your meal when your meal is served and remove them when they take your plate.
quote:
ETA I think you could get away with pocketing one or two but not half the bowl like some people do.
When we go out, my best friend allows her little girl to chew on one while we're waiting for our food to be served, but she's not allowed more than that.
[Edited because details matter, don't they? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ]
[ 21. November 2005, 20:00: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by badman:
Couple of dinner party questions.
If a guest makes a racist or homophobic remark, how do I (1) not spoil the atmosphere or be rude to guest but (2) challenge or at least distance myself from said remark?
When a couple with a hereditary title, who for some reason think it's a big deal and ALWAYS use it, come to dinner, how do I introduce them to other guests without (1) slighting them or (2) suggesting to other guests that I give a flying f*** about a title that the holders have not earned.
Thanks.
Well, according to the Goddess of etiquette - Miss Manners - inappropriate jokes are answered with a weak smile, a brief pause (you have to imagine the tumble weed blowing across the desert of silence) and a change of subject. Optional extra, calm statement before change of subject along the lines of 'Perhaps you didn't know my sister/husband/lover is gay/black/mentally ill ...' If the remark is not intended to be humourous, I'd go with a calm statement along the lines of 'I'd have to disagree' or 'I'd rather not get in to that' and change the subject.
As for title droppers, one never properly introduces oneself by ones own titles - so bow out saying 'I'll just get the door, do introduce yourselves ...' - at least then you can snigger when they make their own social error.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
It's the diners that put the ketchup, mustard, hot sauce, etc. on the tables. Wait staff in really good restaurants will bring the sauces that go with your meal when your meal is served and remove them when they take your plate.
Ah yes but a really good restaurant won't have ketchup or mustard or hot sauce on the tables at all and the only way you get it is if it's part of the actual dish you order. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
It's interesting that a lot of the Chinese restaurants I've been to have bottles of Japanese soy sauce on the tables by way of condiment. (Or perhaps to fiddle restlessly with and read the label of, as you wait a small eternity for your order to be taken.)
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grits: quote:
Originally posted by Corpus cani: Oh! Coot PLEASE!!! It's Messiah, not THE Messiah.
I know exactly how you feel. That's my reaction whenever I hear someone say THE Gap.
For goodness' sake, people. I read Corpus' post as being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Mine certainly was. So I was either playing along, or making fun of him for being so touchy about his articles.
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Sorry, Grits. I figured CC was as much serious as he was joking. After all, articles are serious!
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Ah yes but a really good restaurant won't have ketchup or mustard or hot sauce on the tables at all and the only way you get it is if it's part of the actual dish you order.
That's what I meant, actually -- guess I should have specified that the sauces that came with your meal would be specific to the dish you ordered and in special little dishes if they were served on the side. I think the places with the snooty chefs tend not to serve things on the side, though; you get the food exactly they want they intend it to be without choices about how much salad dressing or sauce or whatever goes on the food.
But I only eat in such places when someone else is paying, which is to say, hardly ever. Places where you have to bang on the side of the ketchup bottle to get the ketchup onto your fries are more my speed. My local grease joint used to have the sealed packages of ketchup, but switched to squeeze bottles -- very helpful, as I was always squirting ketchup everywhere when trying to get the little packages open.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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badman
Shipmate
# 9634
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Badman, do they expect you to address them by title? Or only introduce them? If the latter, introduce them to others by title, then address them all evening as Bess and Phil.
I think they would expect me to introduce them by their title and call them by their Christian names. But I don't generally use names much when talking to people, I just talk to them.
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Well, according to the Goddess of etiquette - Miss Manners - inappropriate jokes are answered with a weak smile, a brief pause (you have to imagine the tumble weed blowing across the desert of silence) and a change of subject. Optional extra, calm statement before change of subject along the lines of 'Perhaps you didn't know my sister/husband/lover is gay/black/mentally ill ...' If the remark is not intended to be humourous, I'd go with a calm statement along the lines of 'I'd have to disagree' or 'I'd rather not get in to that' and change the subject.
As for title droppers, one never properly introduces oneself by ones own titles - so bow out saying 'I'll just get the door, do introduce yourselves ...' - at least then you can snigger when they make their own social error.
Oh, yes, both very good. I particularly like "I'd rather not get into that" - understated but clear.
Posts: 429 | From: Diocese of Guildford | Registered: Jun 2005
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Belisarius, it seems to me that taking sealed packages of condiments from a restaurant is tacky unless you've ordered your meal to go.
Not if the large handbag he's hiding them in matches his shoes.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Gladly The Cross-eyed Bear
Fixed Bearly Tone
# 9641
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Posted
Dear Sine:
I need advice on a quandary at work. I have a co-worker, X, who is a pain to be near and is considered by most to be an irritant, at the very least. X is one who always tries to be friendly with all, but in a way that makes one recoil in distaste. This morning he confided to me that he saves money on Christmas postage by bringing cards in a few at a time and using the office meter. Now, I would like to have as little to do with X as possible, but I would hate to see him lose his job. If I inform my superiors that X is in the habit of using company funds for mailing, and he gets in trouble, there is a good chance that X will know I am the one who spilled the beans. I am spending my time alternating between trying to think of how to let someone know anonymously and wishing to reset the clock so that I never knew. Please advise me. Thank you.
Gladly
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Percy, Mace, and Grease be with you!
Posts: 162 | From: East end of the Desolation of Smog | Registered: Jun 2005
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Oh dear. Do you get annoyed when asked to key in your Pin number?
You haven't met Sinisterial, have you? He starts foaming at the mouth if you say ATM machine.
[edit - bad code. Bad, bad, code.]
[ 22. November 2005, 02:29: Message edited by: ecumaniac ]
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by badman:
Couple of dinner party questions.
If a guest makes a racist or homophobic remark, how do I (1) not spoil the atmosphere or be rude to guest but (2) challenge or at least distance myself from said remark?
At a family gathering about ten years ago, my wife's uncle cornered me with a horribly racist joke. When he got to the punch line, I just stared at him expectantly, like there had to be more. He started trying to explain the joke*. The more he tried, the more I believe he saw that it wasn't really funny. He hasn't done that again within my hearing.
*I suspect he was more embarrassed by being not funny than by being racist, but there you go.
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gladly The Cross-eyed Bear:
I have a co-worker, X, who is a pain to be near and is considered by most to be an irritant, at the very least...This morning he confided to me that he saves money on Christmas postage by bringing cards in a few at a time and using the office meter...I am spending my time alternating between trying to think of how to let someone know anonymously and wishing to reset the clock so that I never knew.
I wish I could rid myself of the uneasy feeling that there is a connection between your dislike of Mr. X and your wish to inform on him. I think you must ask yourself what you would do if it was your bestest friend at work who had told you this and do the same.
Of course the bigger question is what do we do when we are told about such ethical laspes in confidence. My rule of thumb has to do with how seriously it will hurt the company. This doesn't sound like it's going to stand between your company and bankruptcy, so I'd say it comes under the category of "none of your business". His chickens will either come home to roost or they won't but in any case there is something distasteful about anonymous informers. If you get in the habit of this, it could serve you ill should you ever get sent to prison.
You did not say what your reaction was when you were told this interesting tidbit by Mr. X. Did you smile and nod in complicity, or did you say coldly "I wish you hadn't told me that. I'll pretend that you didn't." That might have given him a clue that such behavior is stealing and unacceptable in your sight.
But these work things are frequently difficult. That's one reason I've never tried to be particularly palsy-walsy with my co-workers. As long as I do the best job for my employer that I can, it's none of my business particularly what they do. Plus I'm too busy to notice.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Boopy
Shipmate
# 4738
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Posted
Back to the dinner guests - titled or not, why not introduce them in the same way as you'd introduce your other dinner guests? So if you normally introduce untitled dinner guests as Mr & Mrs Smith, you can intro your title guests as Lord and Lady Jones. . I don't know about you but I'd introduce guests as John and Jane Smith and Bess and Phil Jones - if you're not using Mr/Mrs/Ms for other guests, you don't need to use titles for these particular guests, it will just introduce an awkward distinction.
Posts: 1170 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Why is there a problem? Surely your butler will call out their full names, titles and all, as they enter the room?
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Belisarius
Lord Bountiful of Admin (Emeritus) Delights
# 32
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Posted
Someone should hint to these dinner guests that title-dropping is the surest mark of an arriviste.
[ 22. November 2005, 19:22: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
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Animals may be Evolution's Icing, but Bacteria are the Cake.
Andrew Knoll
Posts: 8080 | From: New York | Registered: May 2001
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John Donne
Renaissance Man
# 220
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Posted
quote:
RuthW:
But Coot's earlier inquiry about MarkthePunk's behavior was much tackier and completely inappropriate.
That's an interesting perspective, Ruth. I'm of the school of thought that it is kinder to bring things like this out in the open in a humorous context than talk about what a rude bastard someone is behind their back.
Saying what the other parties may be thinking gives everyone a chance to relax, laugh, and allows an 'in' for the person who has stuffed up to fix things.
There's that, or everyone could go off quietly thinking to themselves what a socially clueless twassock the protagonist is.
Posts: 13667 | From: Perth, W.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Gladly The Cross-eyed Bear
Fixed Bearly Tone
# 9641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I wish I could rid myself of the uneasy feeling that there is a connection between your dislike of Mr. X and your wish to inform on him. I think you must ask yourself what you would do if it was your bestest friend at work who had told you this and do the same.
(...)
You did not say what your reaction was when you were told this interesting tidbit by Mr. X. Did you smile and nod in complicity, or did you say coldly "I wish you hadn't told me that. I'll pretend that you didn't." That might have given him a clue that such behavior is stealing and unacceptable in your sight.
But these work things are frequently difficult. That's one reason I've never tried to be particularly palsy-walsy with my co-workers. As long as I do the best job for my employer that I can, it's none of my business particularly what they do. Plus I'm too busy to notice.
Thank you. I appreciate the affirmation of my eventual thoughts before I managed to get to sleep. I fear you are correct in your uneasiness. I would love to not have to interact with him at all, and that may have influenced the depth of my quandary.
As for my reaction when X was speaking to me; I was very busy being busy, and being psychologically not available to him. I didn't really grasp what he had said until he had moved on. Letting him know that I disapprove of what he does involves more interaction with him than I want. If he were one of the people at work with whom I am friendly I would be able to say, "That doesn't sound like such a good idea." But with X I don't want to have to explain myself.
Gladly
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Percy, Mace, and Grease be with you!
Posts: 162 | From: East end of the Desolation of Smog | Registered: Jun 2005
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badman
Shipmate
# 9634
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belisarius:
Someone should hint to these dinner guests that title-dropping is the surest mark of an arriviste.
It's a mark of insecurity, certainly. But people who think it's the best they've got to offer need a bit of compassion too, I suppose.
Anyway, I've made my mind up. First name introductions only and get 'em all plastered, as usual. You OK with that, Sine?
Posts: 429 | From: Diocese of Guildford | Registered: Jun 2005
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by badman:
You OK with that, Sine?
Being a citizen of a republic I have deliberately stayed out of this, although 'Merikans dearly love a lord. I do remember writhing in shame when the dean of our cathedral incorrectly addressed the (very charming) mother of one of our esteemed shipmates as if she were the daughter of a duke instead of the wife of a lord. But then it's not something we have to worry about much on this side of the ocean.
But yes, I'm Ok with that. And I'm sure dear Nancy Mitford, looking down from Heaven, is too.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The dinner guest question depends on the formality of the occasion.
At a formal dinner, with an order or precedence and possibly speakers or toastmasters, yes you can introduce people by titles.
But if you aren't living in a college of an ancient university, and you aren't a high-ranking officer in the armed forces, a diplomat abroad, or a member of the royal family, the chances are that the only formal dinners you are ever likely to host in your own home will be weddings of family members (in which case the bride gets to decide what people are called, so there)
At an ordinary informal dinner in your home, or any other kind of party, politeness includes the illusion that your guests are part of the family, social equals, insiders, people who already know each other (if only by reputation).
So if Mrs Coster the cleaner is eating on one side of the table and the Duke of Loamshire on the, the nearest you get to a formal introduction is "Doris, I'm not sure if you've met Rupert? Mary, surely you know Fred?"
If you think the difference between their situations is so great that either or both would be embarrassed by that then you shouldn't invite them to the same party. Titles are for high tables and uniforms, not for dinner at home.
You don't point out that she is a duchess or he is the Mundanian ambassador, or the President of Harvard, or Queen Marie of Romania, or the winner of the latest Turner prize, or the chair of the local parish council, or the man who works down the chip-shop and thinks he's Elvis, because you act - in public - under the assumption that anyone sussed enough to be invited to your table already knows all that. In private of course you make sure everyone knows who everyone is, before they arrive if possible.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sine Nomine
Ship's backstabbing bastard
# 66
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
you act - in public - under the assumption that anyone sussed enough to be invited to your table already knows all that.
Lady Cunard was notorious for embarrassing her guests by her introductions. Two of her most famous:
"This is Grand Duke Dimitri, who helped murder Rasputin" - he was so enraged he turned and left her house - and "This is Michael Arlen, the only Armenian who survived the massacre" which was particularly insulting since he liked to present himself as every inch the English gentleman.
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Precious, Precious, Sweet, Sweet Daddy...
Posts: 16639 | From: lat. 36.24/lon. 86.84 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(And don't even get me started about people with doctorates who use the title "doctor" socially.)
Better not go to Italy then. It says in my language coursebook that many Italians like to address each other with their titles as a form of respect - and it might be Doctor, it might be Professor, it might even be Engineer.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I don't know but it might be interesting if people were addressed by their job titles over here.
"Good morning, Rubbish Disposal Operative. Lovely day isn't it?"
"Indeed it is, Administrative and Secretarial Assistant."
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Germans do that on business cards and in directories. Someone who had a Master's degree from one of the old snobbish universities that allows anyone to call themself a Doctor, and then got a real PhD and had once taught at a university (like the Merkins they call any university teacher a "proffessor") and who had a qualification in engineering and then got an honorary doctorate could really be known as "Herr Doktor Doktor Doktor Professor Ingenieur"
Though only in writing I suspect. I don't think even a German would actually ever say all that.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Joan_of_Quark
Anchoress of St Expedite
# 9887
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Posted
They do that in Mexico too. People use these titles on their correspondence "Licenciado José X", "Ingeniero Joaquín Y" etc. (usually abbreviated). The boss in the office is often referred to as "El Ingeniero" i.e. "THE Engineer" as if he's the only one in the world with that distinguished title.
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"I want to be an artist when I grow up." "Well you can't do both!"
further quarkiness
Posts: 1025 | From: The Book Depository | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I don't know but it might be interesting if people were addressed by their job titles over here.
"Good morning, Rubbish Disposal Operative. Lovely day isn't it?"
"Indeed it is, Administrative and Secretarial Assistant."
You must mean "Environmental Technician" and "Junior Deputy Assistant Undermanager"?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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