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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Daily offices
J.S. Bach
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The Daily Prayer of the Church

Earlier in this thread, I had posted a reference to this new daily office book. I recently acquired the book and find it impressive. Editor Philip Pfatteicher describes it as “an expanded and enriched organization of the daily prayer offices in the Lutheran Book of Worship.”

As you can read on the webpage referenced above, this office book includes a rich set of materials. The bulk of the book, however, is devoted to Evening Prayer and Morning Prayer, and it presents them in a splendid manner. Each season begins with an ordinary containing the opening psalms, prayers, and the gospel canticles. A good portion of the ordinary sections (especially for Evening Prayer) is set to music. The daily variations are where the book particularly shines. Pfatteicher groups the appointed psalms (two for each evening and morning with antiphons), hymn with music, lectionary references, responses, etc., together for each day -- a minimum of flipping! The book provides a week of variations for most seasons but provides four weeks of variations for General (Ordinary) Time. In addition, Compline has a week of variations for the psalms, with musical settings for the canticle and other material. For those who wish to chant the psalms as well, the book provides 10 tones for the psalms and antiphons.

All in all, this is a wonderful book. I have been using another office book for my Advent devotions but look forward to praying from this book on a more regular basis.

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by J.S. Bach:
The Daily Prayer of the Church

Earlier in this thread, I had posted a reference to this new daily office book. I recently acquired the book and find it impressive. Editor Philip Pfatteicher describes it as “an expanded and enriched organization of the daily prayer offices in the Lutheran Book of Worship.”

You've done a fine sales pitch: I'm now $45 poorer but will be greatly enriched, it seems, by this book. [Yipee]

Wonder whether it will arrive before or after the Saint Helena Breviary, about which I've sent e-mails requesting an acknowledgment of some sort and have been assured my e-mails are going to the appropriate sister but nothing further. Don't they know they're dealing with a breviary freak here? [Help]

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Divine Office
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The Daily Prayer of the Church sounds very interesting indeed. I might well be interested in acquiring a copy after the Christmas season when my credit card has recovered a bit! I've also got the forthcoming reprint of The English Office to consider as well!

Scott, perhaps you can give us your impressions of the book when you receive your copy. I would like to hear how it compares with, for example, Benedictine Daily Prayer, Common Worship: Daily Prayer and the current RC Divine Office/LOH.

There is a copy of the first edition of Howard Galley's Prayer Book Office advertised for sale in the Abebooks catalogue at the moment, but it is pricey at the equivalent of about £64 Sterling!


DIVINE OFFICE

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DitzySpike
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I believe the Daily Prayer of the Church uses the collects by the Consultation on Common Texts, which are quite well done.
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J.S. Bach
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I checked the Daily Prayer of the Church for the collect sources and didn't see the Consultation on Common Texts (CCT) listed. It is possible that the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America's Renewing Worship materials do use CCT-developed collects, as they include a new daily lectionary based on CCT's Revised Common Lectionary.

This year has seen the release of quite a few daily office books/breviaries. It is often difficult to settle on one for long! I try to stay with one for at least a church season. I actually managed to stick with the rather creative Durham Liturgy's "Daily Prayer" volume for two years, but that is before I started saying Evening Prayer as well (this book only provides one full office per day).

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by J.S. Bach:
This year has seen the release of quite a few daily office books/breviaries.

And this coming year we can look forward to the re-release of the handy "small brick" size of the USA BCP/NRSV combo, which works very well as a breviary and missal.

And I've heard from the Order of Saint Helena, telling me I should have my copy of their breviary within a week. [Big Grin]

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precentor
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheesy*:
We've just started using the celtic daily prayer liturgy (from the Northumbria Community) as an effort to be more disciplined during lent (and possibly beyond).

I was wondering what offices other liturgically minded shipmates use, why and how.

Thanks

C

morning & evening prayer from the 1928 bcp (usa). an adaptation of sext, apparently done by a past dean of the seminary. and occasionally compline in latin a la trent.

all services sung, of course!

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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
And this coming year we can look forward to the re-release of the handy "small brick" size of the USA BCP/NRSV combo, which works very well as a breviary and missal.

And I've heard from the Order of Saint Helena, telling me I should have my copy of their breviary within a week. [Big Grin]

Two bits of good news! I've been wanting a combined BCP/NRSV for ages, but the only place you can seem to get them (in any size) is on eBay.

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da Wonder Sheep:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
And this coming year we can look forward to the re-release of the handy "small brick" size of the USA BCP/NRSV combo, which works very well as a breviary and missal.

And I've heard from the Order of Saint Helena, telling me I should have my copy of their breviary within a week. [Big Grin]

Two bits of good news! I've been wanting a combined BCP/NRSV for ages, but the only place you can seem to get them (in any size) is on eBay.
You can order one here from Oxford U Press; it's due out in May. This is the genuine leather black number; there will be other bindings including a less-expensive but nice-feeling flexible cover. I think I have a Bible in that cover, and it feels sexy. [Snigger]
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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
quote:
Originally posted by J.S. Bach:
This year has seen the release of quite a few daily office books/breviaries.

And this coming year we can look forward to the re-release of the handy "small brick" size of the USA BCP/NRSV combo, which works very well as a breviary and missal.

breviary and missile , surely?
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Chapelhead

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OK, back from the advanced stuff to Daily Office 101 for those of us new to this.

Assuming you read MP, EP and NP and intend to go to Midnight Mass, what offices are said?

Presumable on 24 December you read MP, EP (for Christmas Eve), then go to Midnight Mass and then NP (before getting some sleep prior to going to Church on Christmas morning). NP is a “going to bed” office, so there’s no sense in reading NP before going to Midnight Mass, even though you’re moving from one liturgical day to another. But would you read NP for Christmas Eve or Christmas Day? Presumably the latter, with NP for Christmas Eve never getting said?

After getting up you read MP (it’s after the first Mass of Christmas, but still “morning”, so MP seems appropriate), attend Communion, read EP and then NP (the second time you have read NP for Christmas Day).

Have I got this right?

<Aside>Makes me wonder what night-shift Catholics read. </Aside>

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Thurible
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If you go to Midnight Mass, you don't say Compline.

Thurible

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Thurible
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Should've said that's with the Divine Office, but I imagine it's a universal thing.

For example, in the parish of Thurible, the ministry team will do as follows:

Evening Prayer
['Midnight Mass' at the daughter church]
Office of Readings
Midnight Mass
Mass of the Dawn
Morning Prayer
Masses
Evening Prayer
(Compline said privately)

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David Goode
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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Assuming you read MP, EP and NP and intend to go to Midnight Mass, what offices are said?

As Thurible says, Compline is recited only by those who do not attend Midnight Mass.

quote:
<Aside>Makes me wonder what night-shift Catholics read. </Aside>
The canonical hours should be recited at or as near as possible to their proper times. As the times for Vigils/Matins, Lauds and Vespers are highly variable at this latitude as they depend on the position of the Sun, most people exercise a bit of common sense in this!

Dave

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Adam.

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What T & D said about Compline. Also Christian Prayer is keen to point out that MP should not be said immediately after Midnight Mass, but in the proper morning.

Am I right in thinking that, ideally, OoR for Christmas Eve should be said corporately as a prelude to Midnight Mass? CP doesn't quite come out and say it, but seems to hint at it. My US church (which I won't be at...) is doing an hour long gathering rite that seems a bit like a Lessons & Carols service before the Mass.

[ETC: "rite" not "right"... I blame these stupid British keyboards!]

[ 24. December 2005, 08:07: Message edited by: ACOL-ite ]

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Thurible
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quote:
Originally posted by ACOL-ite:

Am I right in thinking that, ideally, OoR for Christmas Eve should be said corporately as a prelude to Midnight Mass? CP doesn't quite come out and say it, but seems to hint at it. My US church (which I won't be at...) is doing an hour long gathering rite that seems a bit like a Lessons & Carols service before the Mass.


We are certainly providing the congo with copies of the Office of Readings and it will be said corporately. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the Vicar hoping that it will keep the touri...worshippers quiet!

Thurible

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Chapelhead

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So Night Prayer / Compline isn't said after Midnight Mass? I can understand that from the point of view that a new day has started and so it isn't entirely appropriate, but speaking personally it would seem a bit odd to go to bed without saying NP/Compline.

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
If you go to Midnight Mass, you don't say Compline.

Thurible

Well I wouldn't get to sleep then! The (old) compline, which I can recite by heart, is my liturgical form of 'counting sleep' and I usually drop off half way through the nunc Dimmittis.

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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David Goode
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Well I wouldn't get to sleep then! The (old) compline, which I can recite by heart, is my liturgical form of 'counting sleep' and I usually drop off half way through the nunc Dimmittis.

Seeing as I normally go to bed before 22h00, I'll be more likely to drop off half way through the Gloria tonight. Which could be a problem as I'm crucifer.

Dave

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Adam.

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The (old) compline, which I can recite by heart, is my liturgical form of 'counting sleep' and I usually drop off half way through the nunc Dimmittis.

The priest who's running our RCIA course told us that if we fall asleep halfway through a rosary, the angels will finish it for us! I wonder if they know Compline too..?

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leo
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Brilliant - I love that - not only do I hope they know Compline, I hope they know the version I use from the Cuddeston Office Book.

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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corvette
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I thought the midnight mass crew got a bye through mattins?? Sorry, "it will be said privately this morning" as the Easter Monday dispensation used to go.. [Biased]

Particularly if they're turning out for the early service as well.

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jlg

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Brilliant - I love that - not only do I hope they know Compline, I hope they know the version I use from the Cuddeston Office Book.

They're the Heavenly Host. I quite sure that not only do they know all the versions and variations of everything, but can sing it all simultaneously with no loss of meaning or harmony.
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by J.S. Bach:
The Daily Prayer of the Church

Earlier in this thread, I had posted a reference to this new daily office book. I recently acquired the book and find it impressive. Editor Philip Pfatteicher describes it as “an expanded and enriched organization of the daily prayer offices in the Lutheran Book of Worship.”

Yes! My copy of this book has arrived, and I'm quite impressed. Pfatteicher has really gone in the right direction in making this breviary usable and in incorporating music. Since it uses materials from the Lutheran Book of Worship, organ accompaniments are readily available; the offices can easily be said or sung without accompaniment as well. As he notes in his introductory matter, the book is an enrichment along the lines of Howard Galley's A Prayer Book Office and some others. Pfatteicher has recognized the value of repetition of material to minimize page-flipping. The problem with the Anglican Breviary and the like is that to keep the book as compact as possible, almost nothing is repeated, so one is being referred somewhere else constantly.

Interesting that this LBW-office enrichment should appear just as the Renewing Worship materials are about to turn into a new service book and hymnal to replace the LBW. However, it may also be a statement to the effect that Renewing Worship Daily Prayer hasn't really provided a new Daily Office liturgy in breviary form, or even in a congregational simple form, so this resource may serve the needs of those ELCA Lutherans with a commitment to daily prayer for some years to come.

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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by ACOL-ite:
The priest who's running our RCIA course told us that if we fall asleep halfway through a rosary, the angels will finish it for us! I wonder if they know Compline too..?

[tangent]
The angels have finished quite a few of my rosaries, then. [Hot and Hormonal]
[/tangent]

I received about $140 USD for Christmas, and am now wavering: do I want a combined BCP/NRSV or the Daily Office Book (or an exercise bike, as I had to ask for an extension for the seatbelt on the flight home tonight-- fun fact, the tag on it bears, among other things, the acronyms 'FAA-TSO C39').

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leo
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Get the exercise bike. You can do the rosary while you use it - it takes out the boredom.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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LutheranChik
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I was wondering if anyone had seen the daily prayer series by Phyllis Tickle -- they're a trio of books grouped by calendar season rather than church season. I saw a brief description of them on Amazon.com en route to something else, and I wasn't sure if they were worth a second look. My understanding is that all the readings are contained in each day's prayers, with no flipping or cross-referencing a Bible needed.

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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Get the exercise bike. You can do the rosary while you use it - it takes out the boredom.

And if I get the kind with the book-holding rack, in another few months when I save up enough cash, I can get one of the books! Yay!

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
I was wondering if anyone had seen the daily prayer series by Phyllis Tickle -- they're a trio of books grouped by calendar season rather than church season. I saw a brief description of them on Amazon.com en route to something else, and I wasn't sure if they were worth a second look. My understanding is that all the readings are contained in each day's prayers, with no flipping or cross-referencing a Bible needed.

I've seen them and don't like them too much, for my own use...pretty slim material there, unless you combine it with lots of silent contemplation. I should say she did a fine job with these books, but I prefer a bit meatier fare and more closely tied to a specific tradition, whether Benedictine, or BCP, or RC secular office, or whatever.
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LutheranChik
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That was my impression just reading the review...sort of a Breviary Lite.

I think I'm springin' for the big book. [Biased]

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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
That was my impression just reading the review...sort of a Breviary Lite.

I picked them up once and pretty much put them back down again; they might be good for someone who wants a short, speedy Office or is trying to get used to the concept of praying the office, but that wasn't what I was looking for.

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Amazing Grace

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I have the Tickle books, and as soon as I find them all, I'm putting them up on Amazon Marketplace. They were a good start but I'm loving, loving, loving my Daily Office books (the 2 volume ECUSA set).

Advantages - all inclusive, a good introduction to the Offices

Disadvantages - books are large and the readings are sort of a mixed bag. Also, I wasn't really thrilled with how the spring volume handled the whole "when does Lent start" thing.

Charlotte

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Autenrieth Road

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Don't leave us hanging! How do they handle "when does Lent start"? There's some other answer than "on Ash Wednesday" [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] ?

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David Goode
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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Don't leave us hanging! How do they handle "when does Lent start"? There's some other answer than "on Ash Wednesday" [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] ?

Traditionally, in the old service books, the proper offices for Lent began on the first Sunday of Lent; Ash Wednesday was a privileged feria (on which no other feast was permitted), and the following three days were ferias, with the Lenten office beginning on the Saturday at Vespers.

Dave

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Amazing Grace

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quote:
Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Don't leave us hanging! How do they handle "when does Lent start"? There's some other answer than "on Ash Wednesday" [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!] ?

OK, let's see if I can back up and 'splain myself here. Keep in mind I don't have the book handy.

The book is organized by week. The weeks are organized much like the Propers in the ECUSA (and other) lectionary ... e.g. "Sunday closest to Oct 29" sort of thing. There are special sections for Christmas week and Holy Week/Easter. Fixed feasts like major saints' days also get a look-in at the approximate time.

The problem with this in my mind is that I don't have a big noticeable shift from Not-Lent to Lent. About the only noticeable shift was that there was a seperate Lent compline section (no Gloria).

I'm sure this is fine for people who are just getting used to the idea of the Office and don't need the complication of keeping track of liturgical seasons as well. But I was somewhat annoyed by it.

Advent was a lot smoother in my opinion because of its relatively fixed start date.

I prefer how the ECUSA lectionary/office book deals with the varying length of Epiphanytide ... it allows for the maximum number of Sundays, but you don't get to all of them every year.

Charlotte

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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

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Boadicea Trott
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# 9621

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I was delighted to find out last night that the 1963 Canon Winfred Charles Douglas version of the Monastic Diurnal is being reprinted by the Lancelot Andrewes Press and is due out Spring 2006.
I emailed them and was told that the expected turnaround time from the printer is about 8 weeks, God willing.
It sounds great, especially with 6 ribbon markers [Angel]

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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett

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Thurible
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# 3206

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I was going to post the same news just now! [Smile]

Could people more knowledgable than I please give further details of the Monastic Diurnal. It has "all you need" for the seven offices. Is it BCP-compatible, or is it, essentially, another version of the Anglican Breviary/old Roman Breviary in nice English?

Thurible

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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."

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Adam.

Like as the
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quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:

I prefer how the ECUSA lectionary/office book deals with the varying length of Epiphanytide ... it allows for the maximum number of Sundays, but you don't get to all of them every year.


Give or take one: the fewer Sundays there are between Epiphany and Lent, the more there are between Pentecost and Advent, so surely you just can use them then?

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

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David Goode
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quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
I was going to post the same news just now! [Smile]

Could people more knowledgable than I please give further details of the Monastic Diurnal. It has "all you need" for the seven offices. Is it BCP-compatible, or is it, essentially, another version of the Anglican Breviary/old Roman Breviary in nice English?

I'm involved with this reprint, as a go-between my (shock horror, Orthodox!) friends at the LA Press and the Oxford University Press who hold the rights to the edition being reprinted.

It is all the day hours of the Benedictine Office in BCP-style English with Coverdale's Psalter. It contains every hour except Matins, and everything for a full diurnal office is in the book.

Dave

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
I was delighted to find out last night that the 1963 Canon Winfred Charles Douglas version of the Monastic Diurnal is being reprinted by the Lancelot Andrewes Press and is due out Spring 2006.
I emailed them and was told that the expected turnaround time from the printer is about 8 weeks, God willing.
It sounds great, especially with 6 ribbon markers [Angel]

Yae! Yay! Yai! I can replace my old one with the crinkly pages and frayed-off ribbon markers. [Yipee]
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Chapelhead

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Someone pointed out to me yesterday that in CWDP the 'O' antiphons are shown to replace the sentence "Lord Jesus, you are the one who is to come, the one whom we await with longing hearts", but that the 'O' antiphons are printed in light type, suggesting that they are said only by the person leading the service (the sentence they replace is in bold type).

Would you expect these antiphons to be said corporately?

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At times like this I find myself thinking, what would the Amish do?

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David Goode
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quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Someone pointed out to me yesterday that in CWDP the 'O' antiphons are shown to replace the sentence "Lord Jesus, you are the one who is to come, the one whom we await with longing hearts", but that the 'O' antiphons are printed in light type, suggesting that they are said only by the person leading the service (the sentence they replace is in bold type).

Would you expect these antiphons to be said corporately?

Yes. As they're antiphons on Magnificat, they would be. It wouldn't be unusual for the cantor (or leader) to begin the antiphon with the first clause, everyone joining in thereafter, and everyone saying or singing the complete antiphon again after Magnificat.

Dave

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The Silent Acolyte

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David Goode, have you any news on The English Office?

My particular concern continues to be whether the volume will be published with lections or even with a lectionary. An internet search yields this Australian listing with the same information as the Canterbury Press listing, plus "Dimensions: 216 x 135" Pages: 368". Thus, perhaps the best I can expect is an included table of lections, but not the readings themselves.

My well-worn volume was bound with The Lessons for Mattins and Evensong Through the Year According to the Revised Lectionary of 1922, (London: OUP) and provides the perfect solution to what to carry for saying the daily office while traveling.

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David Goode
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Not yet, I'm afraid. It's due out soon, and I'm still waiting for my advance copy (Canterbury Press have a very short turnaround from press to shelf).

Dave

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The Silent Acolyte

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Scott Knitter, you importunate widow, you, your prayers have been answered!

I'll still pick up The English Office when it comes out, but this, soon-to-be-published 4-1/2" x 6-1/8" leather-bound 1979 BCP/NRSV volume is the one for me.

[ 03. January 2006, 12:47: Message edited by: The Dumb Acolyte ]

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by The Dumb Acolyte:
I'll still pick up The English Office when it comes out, but this, soon-to-be-published 4-1/2" x 6-1/8" leather-bound 1979 BCP/NRSV volume is the one for me.

I see that amazon.com is discounting it 37 percent.
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Divine Office
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I have just emailed Andrewes Press to pre-order a copy of The Monastic Diurnal when it is reprinted in the spring. It ought to be worth waiting for!

It will be interesting to see how it compares with the Roman edition recently reprinted by Farnborough Abbey Press.

I am also looking forward to the reprint of The English Office to be published by Canterbury Press in February.

A Happy New Year to everyone!!!

DIVINE OFFICE

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DitzySpike
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My copy of the St Helena Breviary arrived. It's bulkier and heavier than Peekskill's Monastic Diurnal Revised. The Mid-day Office, Vespers and Compline are fully set to chant in plainsong notation. Quite a good selection of canticles, including some sourced from Hildergard von Bigen and St John of the Cross.
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ecumaniac

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Hello folks. I'm just popping in to say that after a long hiatus I have decided (resolved, even [Big Grin] ) to come back to the divine office.

So, I go to my online breviary supplier of choice, liturgyhours.org, only to find that they are now a subscription service [Waterworks]

So, I am giving the Universalis Avantgo palm thingy a try.

If all else fails, there are always the heavy books to fall back on!

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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine

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ecumaniac

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[apologies for double-post, but...]

I just got a "recommended channel" page from Avantgo. Based on my other subscribed channels, they think I would be interested in reading the "Christian Science Monitor".

Hmmmm.

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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine

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