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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Daily offices
Choirboy
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Almost all breviarys I'm aware of do not contain the music for the hymns or the antiphons. The books are large enough already.

What you need is an Antiphoner/Antiphonale, a book of the music. And then possibly a psalter which would have pointing for singing the psalms. And possibly another book for the hymn tunes, but quite often any tune in common meter would work (for major feasts other meters are often used). Also, all these need to go together so that, for example, the psalm tone used in the pointing of your psalm matches the mode of the antiphon from the Antiphoner.

At a minimum, you need an Antiphoner with your breviary. The standard notation for a particular antiphon contains at least the psalm tone it expects you to use for the psalm, as well as the "last measure" or ending of that particular psalm tone. With some practice (and taking a long pause at the *'s), I find you can point them on the fly in your head.

The Monastic Diurnal reprinted by Lancelot Andrewes Press (orig. OUP) has such an Antiphoner, namely The Monastic Diurnal Noted. It contains all the music for the ordinary, the ferial antiphons for psalms and canticles, collections of such proper to the seasons (Advent, etc.), and finally a collection of proper antiphons for feasts of saints (from the old Episcopal Church kalendar). This, of course, being a Diurnal only contains the text and respectively music for the 'Day Hours', i.e. not Matins. It is also a modification or edition of the monastic breviary for use by a particular community (Sisters of St. Mary, NY), and so is somewhat idiosyncratic (but then aren't they all). These books are in English (only).

The only other comparable music books of which I'm aware are in Latin. My Latin is far from good enough to make use of them without English alongside at least. The site posted previously ( www.nocturnale.de ) links to a small German publisher that publishes this sort of thing. The site is in German and the samples of the books are in Latin, so I can't offer any more advice than that.

Others more familiar with the traditional sources will surely be along to suggest other musical books. I'm told these turn up from time to time on eBay, but haven't seen one yet.

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Choirboy
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Sorry for the double post. To answer your other question; I'm not familiar with A Shorter Morning and Evening Prayer, but I certainly think such a thing would be a good place to start. My first thought was to suggest getting familiar with chanting the BCP office using your local BCP, but you may have done that. Many folks seem to like Common Worship, although I haven't used it.

I think it ideal to start with daily EP or EP & compline, then add MP and/or noontime prayers as you arrange your schedule around prayer. Trying to add too much at once is a mistake, even though it seems like it will be an easy thing to do. It's like trying to lose weight too quickly - you don't end up sticking with it and soon your back to where you were. I know on both counts.

I'm about a year into learning this stuff, so still far from experienced. Others will probably know of more resources.

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Angloid
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Talking of idiosyncratic, but certainly simple, try the day hours of Ewell monastery. This was the home of the last two Anglican Cistercians until they shut up shop a couple of years ago. But Fr Aelred still keeps up his website and preserves the archives.

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Adrian1
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Divine Office wrote:

quote:
I had the idea of creating a New Anglican Breviary, which would have had the BCP psalms arranged in the current RC four-week pattern, with suitable translations of the biblical canticles and the traditional office hymns. The KJB or possibly the Douai bible would be used for the short readings.

However, no doubt such a project would run into difficulties concerning Crown Copyright of parts of the BCP!!!

I once wrote to Cambridge University Press who act as the Crown's patentee to ask their advice as I was thinking of compiling a work which included some Prayer Book material. As I remember, their adjudication on the matter was that if I wanted to publish something with Prayer Book material in it they would have to see the work in question prior to publication before granting permission. There didn't appear to be a blanket permission which I could obtain prior to commencing what I was doing. However they also advised me that I could use any part of the Prayer Book I liked in a book which was for my private use, i.e. not for general publication or circulation.

With regard to the scope of Crown Copyright, my understanding is that whilst it applies to the 1662 BCP in the UK, it doesn't apply in the United States. However it's worth double checking if you're in doubt.

[Razz]

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The Parson's Handbook contains much excellent advice, which, if it were more generally followed, would bring some order and reasonableness into the amazing vagaries of Anglican Ritualism. Adrian Fortescue

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Choirboy
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I first read your post as wondering if the ECUSA '79 is under copyright. I don't think it is, or if it is then there seems to be general permission to reproduce it if not for sale. It is interesting to note that the alternative language versions of the ECUSA '79 (Spanish, French at least) are under copyright, however.

I don't have proof but the excellent BCP site here does seem careful about permissions, and the ECUSA '79 appears in full text (in English).

This site also contains a link to a U.S. site containing the full text of the 1662, so apparently they don't feel such is against U.S. law. Far from conclusive, but that's as far as I know.

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IngoB

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quote:
Originally posted by Craigmaddie:
Do any breviaries have musical notation in order to chant the antiphons (I'm assuming that is just the antiphons that you can chant)?

My sponsor has lent me A Shorter Morning and Evening Prayer. Would you recommend that as a good place to start?

Frankly, I think you shouldn't overload yourself with trying to learn chant and starting the Divine Office at the same time. Personally I find that when I try to do too much, I end up doing nothing. But anyway, I'm not terribly informed about English chant. A complete Benedictine "Breviary with Chant" exists in German (from the Abtei Münsterschwarzach) in three volumes and rather cheap, but I assume that won't help you.

If you can deal with Latin, I would like to point out that the "Vatican II updated" Benedictine Antiphonale Monasticum I is now out, to be followed by volumes II and III this and next year, respectively. You can order it for example directly from Solesmes. It has the antiphons, versicles, responsorium, psalms and rubrics, but lacks the hymns (which are in the Liber Hymnarius).

I think you should be fine with the Shorter Prayer to find out whether the Divine Office is right for you. Personally, I'm more into Lectio Divina at the moment (although this is not the thread to say that [Razz] ).

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

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Boadicea Trott
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If anyone wants an abbreviated version of the Benedictine office, the text of the Daily Office of the Orthodox Oblates of St Benedict is available online at:
http://stmichaelwhittier.org/resources.htm
in a PDF format and can be saved or printed out.

I`m getting mine spiral bound tomorrow :-)

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Craigmaddie
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IngoB, I think you're probably right. I had visions of myself rising early in the morning to intone millenia-old chants as the sunlight slowly fills my bed chamber, whereas the reality is probably closer to me rushing about the flat with my electric toothbrush in one hand and the breviary in the other. Perhaps I'll try to get myself used to the discipline of reading the office every day first of all!

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Via Veritas Vita

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Craigmaddie
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I just wanted to thank Choirboy for some very useful suggestions also!

I have been thinking about doing a non-guided retreat somewhere ideally at a Bendictine abbey where there is the opportunity of praying with the monks through the Liturgy of the Hours in order to get a feel for the tradition.

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Via Veritas Vita

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Angloid
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quote:
Originally posted by Craigmaddie:
I just wanted to thank Choirboy for some very useful suggestions also!

I have been thinking about doing a non-guided retreat somewhere ideally at a Bendictine abbey where there is the opportunity of praying with the monks through the Liturgy of the Hours in order to get a feel for the tradition.

Excellent idea. Or perhaps the Cistercians: in Scotland or England.

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Lone voice: I'm not!

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Craigmaddie
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Thank you for the link, angloid! I've just finished writing a letter to the Guestmaster at Pluscarden Abbey but I will also investigate the Cistercians at Nunraw...

I read on their website that the Benedictines at Pluscarden recite the Liturgy of the Hours in Latin. Also, it says that the community was at one time Anglican Benedictine - I never realised that there was such a thing!

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Via Veritas Vita

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Choirboy
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If you want to add a little music to your office without having to jump off the deep end, I'd suggest the St. Dunstan's Psalter from Lancelot Andrewes Press. That has the Coverdale translation of the psalms pointed for chant, a complete selection of the traditional canticles, and simple chanted ordinaries for Morning and Evening prayer and Compline. These are almost entirely based on the 8 simple psalm tones of the traditional English use and it is very easy to pick up.

Although they are written in the square note 'neume' notation, it isn't at all like trying to read the more florid chants of the traditional antiphons, or even the simplified versions in the Monastic Diurnal Noted.

It may be a spiritual deficiency on my part, but I find it difficult to pray without singing.

But I agree with IngoB (and the introductory tutorial at the Anglican Breviary web site) that it is by far better to start with just a couple of things and add more things when the previous things become a part of you.

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DitzySpike
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Besides the St Dunstan Psalter, there's Heanly Willan's Canadian Psalter Plainsong Edition, and Brigg and Fere's Manual of Plainsong. St Dunstan has uses a more friendly system of pointing.

James Litton's plainsong psalter has a few antiphons given with the psalms, both seasonal and ferial. It is in modern notation.

St Mary's Convent (Wantage) may still carry a privately published antiphonary (Psalm antiphons only) prepared for the Mirfield fathers. They also published Antiphons on Benedictus, and Antiphons on Magnificat and nunc Dimittis in two books. The music for an English translation of the Sarum Vesperale is published in 'An Order for Vespers'.

Modern music for the Liturgy of the Hours can be found in some of the GIA Hymnals. I think Ritual Song carries many of Gelineau psalm settings to modern antiphons.

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Thurible
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As I understand it, they still do. Sr. Alison Joy deals with such things. Contact details:

Alison Joy, CSMV,
S. Mary's Convent,
Denchworth Road,
Wantage, OX12 9DJ,
Oxon.

Thurible

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DitzySpike
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A ready to print horologion. Go East!
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
A ready to print horologion. Go East!

Lord have mercy x 40, eh? Is this done quickly? How are they counted (fingers? beads?)?
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Thurible
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Does the English Office have enough ribbons? And are they of decent quality, or do you have to melt/nail polish the ends to prevent them fraying?

Also, what's the paper like? Is it the really thin "prayerbook" stuff (which would mean it'll crease and wear very quickly), or is it a bit more substantial (CW:DP's paper's good!)?
Thurible

[ 10. March 2006, 17:51: Message edited by: Thurible ]

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Divine Office
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Unfortunately, The English Offfice has only one thin page ribbon. Two or three more are really needed. I think the paper is reasonably substantial, though.

DIVINE OFFICE

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Patrick
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Regarding the 40 Kyries: they are recited by the Reader quickly but distinctly. I use my fingers to keep count, in groups of 4, though some use 4 groups of 10 Kyries. You've heard, no doubt, of the American Mid-West auto bumper decal that requests, "If you're Orthodox, honk 40 times."
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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
Unfortunately, The English Offfice has only one thin page ribbon. Two or three more are really needed.

That's why God invented Holy Cards.

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Hilda of Whitby
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About me--ECUSA, wanting to deepen my prayer life by praying the daily office. I have read this whole thread with great interest, but gosh, there is so much out there, it is all rather confusing to me about what sort of daily office or breviary to choose. Right now I use the 1979 BCP and my RSV, and do MP and EP or Compline. I shan't be chanting or singing anything during my private devotions (though I do have those lovely CDs from the Society of St. John).

I'd like something in one volume; I have a big tote bag I take with me each day to work so the book doesn't have to be tiny, if I want to take it with me.

So ... would that 2 volume "Daily Office" be the thing for me? (I think I would only need to carry 1 of them with me, since they cover Year 1 and year 2). I've started attending a liberal AC church here in Washington and it is soooo lovely to hear Rite I language again!! (Which is why I don't know if the 1 volume "Contemporary Office" is what I really want.) I was rather chagrined to read that the "Daily Office" set has typos. [Hot and Hormonal]

The Anglican Breviary is just beautiful and at one time I had thought to get it, but it seems really intimidating, and I am a newbie at the daily office; I don't know that the Anglican Breviary is the place to start. I've seen that Benedictine Daily Office as well, and it looks interesting too.

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks in advance!

Hilda

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The Silent Acolyte

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Hilda of Whitby, if you read two lessons in the morning and two lessons in the evening, then the two-volume daily office set won't do. To get the fourth lesson, you need to 'steal' the lection from the alternate year, and that means carrying both volumes with you.
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Hilda of Whitby
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Thanks, Dumb Acolyte ... but, um, if the 2 v. Daily Office set won't do, what will?

Thanks,

Hilda

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"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."

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Divine Office
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Hi Hilda of Whitby

Would you consider trying the single-volume edition of the RC Liturgy of the Hours, which in the USA is entitled Christian Prayer?
That would give you everything you would need for Morning Prayer, Prayer during the day, Evening Prayer and Compline in one book, which is probably not quite so complex for the beginner as, say, The Anglican Breviary.

Alternatively, Benedictine Daily Prayer is also very good, and also has translations of the Office Hymns.

Lancelot Andrewes Press are due to reissue the 1963 edition of the OUP Monastic Diurnal shortly, which also has everything in a single volume. However, I suspect that learning to use it might also be a fairly complex process, as with the AB.

I hope this information is of some help.


regards DIVINE OFFICE

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Divine Office
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Just seen from the LA Press website that the reprint of the Monastic Diurnal has been delayed by a month and will now appear in April. Pre-orders are still being accepted, though.


DIVINE OFFICE

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Hilda of Whitby
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Thanks, Divine Office. I'll check out 'Christian Prayer' and the Benedictine daily office.

Hilda

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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
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quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
Thanks, Divine Office. I'll check out 'Christian Prayer' and the Benedictine daily office.

Hilda

Dear Hilda,

I also strongly recommend "Christian Prayer". Although I am an Anglican, I use it daily and find it excellent. It has everything you need for Morning Prayer and Evening prayer and Compline for every day of the year. There is a reduced diet for Prayer During the Day and the Office of Readings. The publisher of Christian Prayer is based in the USA and gives these options :

http://www.catholicbkpub.com/ONLINE_CAT/sub_default.asp?MC_ID=CM&SC_ID=CM1

CP is an abridgement of the four-volume Liturgy of the Hours. The extra bulk of the full set is made up chiefly by the extra texts needed for the Office of Readings:

http://www.catholicbkpub.com/ONLINE_CAT/DETAIL/b_detail.asp?IM_ISBN=0899424090&MC_ID=CM

When I am at home, I use this set for preference because the type is bigger and it is just a pleasure to use. But I carry Christian Prayer on my travels and keep a copy in the office and find it works very well.

Best regards,

SHSV
(I see we have the same avatar. My excuse is that my cats made me choose this image. [Smile] )

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Hilda of Whitby
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Thanks so much, Sub Hoc ... and yes, my kitty also made me choose my avatar! [Biased]

Cheers,

H.

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"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."

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The Silent Acolyte

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quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
Thanks, Dumb Acolyte ... but, um, if the 2 v. Daily Office set won't do, what will?

Hilda, if you scrabble back through this thread you'll find a region where Scott Knitter, others, and I discussed this with varying solutions. I've settled upon a BCP and NRSV in one binding as my solution. Scot Knitter, I believe, pointed it out as being out of print and we were both surprised when Oxford decided to reissue it.
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Hilda of Whitby
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I did see the posts about the BCP/NRSV ... but is that the same as a daily office?

H.

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"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
I did see the posts about the BCP/NRSV ... but is that the same as a daily office?

Well, it contains everything needed to pray the Daily Office, plus of course the rest of the BCP and the Bible. So it also contains everything needed to say Mass.

The Oxford NRSV/BCP is already available in an edition that is the size of a very thick Bible; the ones coming out in May are smaller, the size of a fat breviary. Very handy for traveling. Small print, though. I believe OUP is publishing this edition in a variety of bindings this time, from genuine leather to some of the new synthetic materials that are pleasant to hold and wear well. My old genuine-leather one has held up extremely well through lots of use and abuse, and the leather is now buttery soft. Mmm... [Yipee]

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The Silent Acolyte

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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da Wonder Sheep:
That's why God invented Holy Cards.

Well, yes, but too many of them and one expands the thickness of the pages, stressing the binding.

There used to sets of ribbons one could buy. Five ribbons were attached to heavy card stock which got inserted in the spine of the binding. I had a large stash of them from 10 years ago, which I have recently exhausted.

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jlg

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Our choir have homemade versions of the same which we use with our hymnals. Cut two pieces of light cardstock and glue the ribbons in between. Voila.

If one isn't personally the sort to have scraps of suitable ribbon lying about, ask around church for someone who is heavy into crafts and such. Said person will probably be happy not only to supply some bits of ribbon, but will also have a hot-glue gun to boot.

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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
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quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
Our choir have homemade versions of the same which we use with our hymnals. Cut two pieces of light cardstock and glue the ribbons in between. Voila.

You can also buy various different kinds of ready-made ribbons from the Catholic Book Publishing Co. These are obviously intended for their own publications. I don't know if they will necessarily fit other volumes, but they might if they are thick enough and there is space down the spine. I note that they do not deliver except in the USA and Canada. Those of us in England will have to make our own [Frown] . Here is the link:

http://www.catholicbkpub.com/ONLINE_CAT/sub_default.asp?MC_ID=CB&SC_ID=CB3

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The Silent Acolyte

Shipmate
# 1158

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shSV, Ah, those might be they. There were two sorts, one with a flexible woven ribbon and the other with ribbon stock not as flexible. Perhaps I can find this in the local Catholic sundry shop, before it finally sinks beneath the waves.

Thanks.

Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
leemc
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# 11141

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Hello all,

This is my first post, but I've been following this discussion with some interest. I've tried to pray some version or another of the Daily Office off and on for a while now - the version I've found most congenial is the Celebrating Common Prayer pocket edition from the Society of St. Francis (Anglican).

My question for any who'd care to reply is about how one prays the office. Not in the sense of the mechanics of what to say when, etc., but the the "spirit" (for lack of a better term) in which it's approached. For instance, I often find myself simply reciting the words without any sense that they're sinking in or that I'm "making them my own" in any meaningful way. Should I be taking a more "meditative" approach or is this something that will improve over time?

I hope that made some kind of sense! [Smile]

Posts: 16 | From: Boston, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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Welcome, leemc!

And congratulations on your first post. Please feel free to peruse the other boards, get the feel of them, the guidelines for posting on each, and so on. And happy sailing!

Anselmina/Ecclesiantics Host

--------------------
Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lou Poulain
Shipmate
# 1587

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quote:
Originally posted by leemc:
Hello all,
...
My question for any who'd care to reply is about how one prays the office. Not in the sense of the mechanics of what to say when, etc., but the the "spirit" (for lack of a better term) in which it's approached. ..

Hello Leemc,

I am something of a "newbee" at praying daily Morning Prayer, having been at it for five months now.

I am the type who is EASILY distracted! So I have to be very deliberate about the couple of minutes before beginning, to focus my mind. I often feel that I've merely recited the words, but over time the prayers have wormed their way into me, particularly the psalms.

I had to set a firm time for Morning Prayer. On my gym mornings I pray in the car outside a local Peet's Coffee shop before driving in to work. On my non-gym days, I pray in the dining room at home, while the coffee is brewing, then eat and read the paper.

This has been a good change in my life. I have finally found a way to fulfill a long time goal of daily scripture reading. Beginning the day with prayer affects the rest of my day, particularly when work is very stressful.

Lou

Posts: 526 | From: Sunnyvale CA USA | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by leemc:

My question for any who'd care to reply is about how one prays the office. Not in the sense of the mechanics of what to say when, etc., but the the "spirit" (for lack of a better term) in which it's approached. For instance, I often find myself simply reciting the words without any sense that they're sinking in or that I'm "making them my own" in any meaningful way. Should I be taking a more "meditative" approach or is this something that will improve over time?

I hope that made some kind of sense! [Smile]

I've been saying the Daily Office with something resembling regularity for about five years now. And there are still days (like, oh, for instance, today) that I say the words kicking and dragging my mental heels and trying my best to be distracted. I think the important part isn't that I get some nebulous, fuzzy good feeling from the Office, but that I've connected with God through scripture and prayer twice a day. It centers and grounds my life. I may not be able to feel that centering when I've gone ahead and read the Office for three-four weeks in a row, but if I drop it for a week, I most certainly feel it.

--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
David Goode
Shipmate
# 9224

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quote:
Originally posted by leemc:
My question for any who'd care to reply is about how one prays the office. Not in the sense of the mechanics of what to say when, etc., but the the "spirit" (for lack of a better term) in which it's approached. For instance, I often find myself simply reciting the words without any sense that they're sinking in or that I'm "making them my own" in any meaningful way. Should I be taking a more "meditative" approach or is this something that will improve over time?

Persevere. We all have days (or longer periods) like that. Just because you don't think it's making a difference doesn't mean it isn't.

Dave

Posts: 654 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

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quote:
Originally posted by David Goode:
Persevere. We all have days (or longer periods) like that. Just because you don't think it's making a difference doesn't mean it isn't.

Well said. I find it helpful to imagine I'm praying with a congregation, because I am. I especially call to mind the sisters of the Order of Saint Helena, who published the breviary I'm using.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Adam.

Like as the
# 4991

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quote:
Originally posted by leemc:
My question for any who'd care to reply is about how one prays the office. Not in the sense of the mechanics of what to say when, etc., but the the "spirit" (for lack of a better term) in which it's approached. For instance, I often find myself simply reciting the words without any sense that they're sinking in or that I'm "making them my own" in any meaningful way. Should I be taking a more "meditative" approach or is this something that will improve over time?

My response would be not to put yourself under too much pressure. Sometimes, we have to go through the motions to get the emotions. I think sit down and saying "I have to be uber spiritual NOW" just isn't going to work. Just let it come.

--------------------
Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
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# 11086

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quote:
Originally posted by leemc:
Hello all,

Should I be taking a more "meditative" approach or is this something that will improve over time?

I hope that made some kind of sense! [Smile]

Dear leemc,

I think it's ultimatley like any other liturgical action. There are days when one attends Mass and comes away feeling more spiritually moved than others. Like other Shipmates, I have found that it is sometimes possible to have recited a whole psalm without really taking it in. But, as Dave Goode says, it does good in the long term even if you do not get any immediate sense of spiritual satisfaction. I think one has to be in it for the long haul with inevitable highs and lows.

I have found it helpful not to battle with extraneous sounds and irrelevant thoughts but simply to accept that this is how things are. The best way I have found to focus is to say the psalms and canticles SLOWLY, really pausing at sense breaks and letting the words sink in. Just slowing down can be quite helpful. You might also find it helpful to say the words out loud - this prevents the eye from merely gliding over familiar texts without taking them in and gives the whole action a greater sense of reality and seriousness.

I also often use the hymn "The Day Thou Gavest Lord is Ended" instead of the Office Hymn at Compline. Sticklers might not approve of this departure, but I am always rather moved by these verses:


We thank Thee that Thy church, unsleeping,
While earth rolls onward into light,
Through all the world her watch is keeping,
And rests not now by day or night.

As o’er each continent and island
The dawn leads on another day,
The voice of prayer is never silent,
Nor dies the strain of praise away.


You have the real sense that, as you finish your prayers and go to bed, other Christians all round the world are at prayer, be it Mass or Office. It is extremely comforting. The prayer never dies away. And this is true at all times of day, of course - not just at night. You are at one with the entire praying church and that is quite something.

[Angel]

Regards,

SHSV

Posts: 139 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Qoheleth.

Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265

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quote:
Originally posted by David Goode:
Persevere. We all have days (or longer periods) like that. Just because you don't think it's making a difference doesn't mean it isn't.

Hi, leemc

Welcome on board!

I, too, used the pocket CCP for ages, cos it's highly portable for the train when commuting. [Smile]

Somebody wise once pointed out to me that feeding my spirit was akin to feeding my body:- I don't revel in everything I've ever eaten, but each meal still feeds me. And I remember some extra-special meals, and I also know when I'm feeling under-fed.

e

--------------------
The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.

Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
DitzySpike
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# 1540

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My copy of the English Office Book arrived. The cover is good to touch. *swipes finger across cover*. Interesting Festal propers - The Sinless Heart of the Blessed Virgin Mary, The Most Holy Name of Mary, Imprinting of St Francis' Stigmata - are included in it. *swipes finger across cover*. I think I'll like this traditional form of the office because it does mythologize seasons and time (been reading Karen Armstrong's 'A short history of myth'); Bultmann can take a break. *swipes finger across the cover*
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540

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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da Wonder
And there are still days (like, oh, for instance, today) that I say the words kicking and dragging my mental heels and trying my best to be distracted. [/QB]

Happens often, especially in the evening; maybe my mind is still stoned during morning prayer. I'll normally run through the office in twice the speed.

I'm reading up on an ignatian approach to prayer. One suggested method is to observe one's feelings, embrace and pray with them as one's heart response to God.

Maybe I'll layer this approach on top of reading the office.

I'm curious about how Daily Office Pray-ers handle praying while one is very sleepy, slipping off after a few lines into a semi-dream world of a wandering consiousness and then waking up again for another few lines for a short while.

Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

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quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
I'm curious about how Daily Office Pray-ers handle praying while one is very sleepy, slipping off after a few lines into a semi-dream world of a wandering consiousness and then waking up again for another few lines for a short while.

I do this when I try to "catch up" in the afternoon and pray Matins and Diurnum before doing Vespers at the right time. Bad idea. I nod off, snore and snort, wake up, and try to continue, repeat cycle. Then I give up and put the book aside, missing Vespers as well. [Hot and Hormonal]
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
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You're all a terrible influence and I glare in your general direction.

Anyway, all the talk about Make Your Own Prayerbook up the thread has collided with my rather obscure hobby of calligraphy. I'm working on making my hand(writing) smaller in several of my basic fonts, and when flipping through a book of illuminated manuscripts, I came across Lorenzo de Medici's personal prayerbook and said to myself, "Shucks, I can write one of those!"

So far, I've got about half of Compline written.

I hate you all. My white cat hates you all, too, because I wasn't paying attention to him, so he jumped up on the desk and got blue paint all over his belly, so he had to have a bath.

--------------------
Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
leemc
Apprentice
# 11141

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Thanks to all for the welcomes and helpful suggestions. You've given me the encouragement to persevere! [Biased]
Posts: 16 | From: Boston, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659

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Regrettably I have the need to pray the office of the dead for a friend. I'm still awaiting my reprint of the Monastic Diurnal, but judging from the little information in my antiphoner (the MD Noted), I believe I've found an equivalent office at the Hypertext Book of Hours page here.

My questions will involve general rubrics for this. My understanding is that this office begins the day before the burial at first vespers and then at the one year anniversary. The site above has vespers, matins and lauds.

Question 1: is anything done for the little hours or second vespers?

Question 2: What of commemorations at vespers and lauds - are they generally omitted? Is the common commemoration or suffrage said?

Question 3: I'm confused by the rubrics for using the first nocturn on Sundays, Mondays, and Thursdays, the second nocturn on Tuesdays and Fridays and the third on Wednesdays and Saturdays. Am I correct in assuming that the matins of the office of the dead is of a single nocturn depending on the day of the burial? If so, then does one chant all nine psalms or just the three with that nocturn?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

If this really belongs in its own thread, I'd be happy to start it. I thought responses would be limited enough and that this is an aspect of the breviary so wasn't amiss in the daily prayer thread.

Thank you.

Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged



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