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Source: (consider it) Thread: Eccles: Daily offices
leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
* Daily Offices fom the Church of England Website.
* At my computer, at home.
*First thing in the morning and last thing at night.
* Because it's easy to access and I'm already sitting here. I only have to move my hands.

Today's offices for S. Mark have the collect for the Annunciation of the website! A month behind.

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
The Dominican Rosary is meant to be the 'layman's breviary' but I doubt that's what they're looking for...

Thurible

I tried that and they went "OMG! Mariolatry! Flee!"

Well, not in those words, but you know what I mean.

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Choirboy
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I'm guessing that the regular MP/noon/EP/compline setup in the BCP 79 is too long for them as otherwise I'm sure you'd have suggested that.

As an in between length thing, Glenstal Book of Prayer is pretty good.

The Ave Maria is printed in the book but I don't think it is part of the ordinary.

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da WonderSheep:
Someone asked me the other day about what prayers someone should/could/ought to say, in lieu of the Daily Office (didn't want to get caught up in breviary addiction, I guess). I kinda sputtered a bit and was lost, and then remembered the short, short version of MP/EP in the ECUSA BCP. They wanted something longer.

How about the Daily Office boiled down to its essence: the psalms appointed for each morning and evening? Easiest would be to pray the psalms in course according to the traditional monthly cycle: just keep a ribbon or bookmark at the current spot in the psalter and move it along.

Also, the current edition of Celebrating Common Prayer is small, portable, and durable, and it contains everything you need for a do-able yet substantial Office. I'd vote for that. Look up ISBN 0826465293 at your favorite online bookshop.

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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
Celebrating Common Prayer ... I'd vote for that.

I'll second that! It's succinct but in a careful and thoughtful way; it has all the elements you need.

I don't think it is likely to lead to any serious breviary addictions. But then I started with CCP, and look where I am now ..... [Biased]

SHSV

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Sub Hoc Signo Vinces:
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
Celebrating Common Prayer ... I'd vote for that.

I'll second that! It's succinct but in a careful and thoughtful way; it has all the elements you need.
I dream of one day constructing a prototype of a highly easy-to-use office book with chants for everything: it's a hand-sized tabbed volume in which one moves only forward in the book, never backward, and jumping more than one page forward is rare. The handy Celebrating Common Prayer (black cover, not blue) is the closest I've seen. But it has no chant.

This current edition of CCP also demonstrates that to make an office book easy to navigate, you don't necessarily have to make it fat.

Scott, who nevertheless enjoys fat, complex monastic office books with tabs and ribbons everywhere, looking like exotic handheld reptiles with feathers. And who was thrilled to be introduced to the manner of participating in the daily office at St John's Abbey, Collegeville, preparation for which requires "building up one's stack of books" from the veritable library in one's stall. Heaven on earth! [Big Grin]

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Boadicea Trott
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How neat, Scott !
How many - and more importantly - what - books do they use ? [Biased]

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DitzySpike
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Surely a psalter is all one needs in a community liturgy. Ok, maybe a hymnal too.
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Ian Climacus

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It's arrived! [Yipee]

Looking forward to using it from tomorrow.

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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
I dream of one day constructing a prototype of a highly easy-to-use office book

I think if I did this, I would probably just take LOTH and have the texts replaced by BCP/Coverdale/AV versions.

But I am in two minds even about this. There is enormous solace in using the BCP/AV tests - I grew up with them and know many of them by heart and they are just so wonderfully comforting and familiar.

But familiarity can breed contempt and there is something to be said for being made to look at the text freshly through newer translations (provided they are more accurate and have the appropriate dignity for a liturgical setting).

On my point about translation, perhaps a hobbyhorse of mine, I am sometimes spooked by references to unicorns in the BCP and AV when the Hebrew might reasonably be supposed to be referring to some other (i.e. known and not mythological) species of horned quadruped. At Psalm 29:6, both AV and BCP refer to the unicorn; the Grail version refers to a wild-ox. If there is a mis-translation in the AV/BCP, I think we ought to know. Charming as the older version undoubtedly is, it has quite different connotations.

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
How neat, Scott !
How many - and more importantly - what - books do they use ? [Biased]

A monk's stall at St John's Abbey, Collegeville, Minnesota, has seven three-ring binders with tabs:

Morning
Midday
Evening
Canticles and Responsories
Common
Feasts 1
Feasts 2

and then a Collegeville Hymnal and The Hymnal 1982 (Episcopal). [Big Grin]

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Choirboy
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Hmmm. Potential Ship Meet opportunities are suggesting themselves....Collegeville...hmmm....
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Boadicea Trott
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
It's arrived! [Yipee]

Looking forward to using it from tomorrow.

It didn`t take too long to get to Oz, Ian !

It`s a lovely book, though I have found using it for Easter week little hours more than a mite confusing... [Ultra confused]
The services for the last part of Lent and Holy Week were a doddle compared to Bright week services !!

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Hmmm. Potential Ship Meet opportunities are suggesting themselves....Collegeville...hmmm....

Oh, it's inevitable and necessary, I'd say. [Cool]
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Spiffy
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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Hmmm. Potential Ship Meet opportunities are suggesting themselves....Collegeville...hmmm....

I'm wondering if they'll run us a class in Care and Feeding of the Daily Office while we're there... [/churchgeek]

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Choirboy
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There would, at the very least, be on the job training.

It would be lovely if they'd sing the gospel from the the Saint John's Bible.

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Ian Climacus

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quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
It`s a lovely book, though I have found using it for Easter week little hours more than a mite confusing... [Ultra confused]

I be glad I'm not the only one: having had no knowledge of using A Book of the Hours before I thought I might be a tad confused, a quick read (at 12am, mind you) had me going [Ultra confused]

I shall start off slowly, and see how I go.

And, yes, it is a very lovely book.

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TubaMirum
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
I dream of one day constructing a prototype of a highly easy-to-use office book with chants for everything: it's a hand-sized tabbed volume in which one moves only forward in the book, never backward, and jumping more than one page forward is rare. The handy Celebrating Common Prayer (black cover, not blue) is the closest I've seen. But it has no chant.

That's my dream, as well. The music part, especially: antiphons, psalms, hymns, responses. It would be so great if people could have access to all this, and the music is central to it. I think more people would sing MP/EP in the parishes if it were available. It goes slower than said prayer and the breathing becomes much more important. It's real mystical practice in this way.

But I think the only-forward-never-back-and-one-page-at-a-time would be pretty hard to do. How about just doing it as some of the monastic communities do, and just having packets of all the seasonal stuff located in the front, replacing the pages when the season ends? That's sort of an additional emphasis on the calendar, even, and makes it more clear what's going on.

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Ian Climacus

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Well, God be thanked, I think I got through Vespers with my Monastic Dirunal without too much trouble.

It was a blessing to use, and it was wonderful to have the same version of the Psalms as I have on many of my Anglican Chant CDs: I found myself, despite having no musical talent whatsoever, recalling the chant on the CDs and following it. Wondrous collect and hymn also.

I did discover that it's probably best to mark the pages with ribbons before one starts, rather than stopping and thinking, "Which week of Easter are we in?" or "Where did I read the end of the Collects at?" [Biased] I guess it will come with practice.

Thanks also to all for their wise words in this thread: as an Hours neophyte, I have found this thread a blessing [I re-read it all today].

[ 29. April 2006, 08:22: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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DitzySpike
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So far much good words have been said for Winfred Douglas' Monastic Diurnal. The Community of S Mary's revision of the same deserves some hard sell too. By far it remains my favourite breviary. It uses a modern calendar; it includes the entire Psalter spread through a month and has a distinctly Benedictine ethos.

Having combined Vigils and Lauds into one office of Mattins it is more manageable for a contemporary secular life.

When I use it I further divide the psalms over another month for a shorter office and alternatve the vespers psalms with a combination of the Terce and Sext Psalms in the evening since I can afford only Morning and Evening Prayers in a day.

A bit of a pity though, my favourite anthem is revised to leave out 'our vale of sorrows'. Maybe one kind soul can provide me with Canon Douglas' version of the Salve Regina that I can sing over the words.

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Boadicea Trott
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DitzySpike,
where did you get your breviary from ? And how much ? [Biased]

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DitzySpike
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Information here.
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da WonderSheep:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Hmmm. Potential Ship Meet opportunities are suggesting themselves....Collegeville...hmmm....

I'm wondering if they'll run us a class in Care and Feeding of the Daily Office while we're there... [/churchgeek]
They'll certainly show us how to read the number-board and build our book-stacks in time for Vespers.

Another book they use that I didn't mention was RitualSong (from GIA), especially at Sunday Mass.

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Ian Climacus

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A no doubt very basic question, sorry, but what is the difference between Ferial and Festal canticles?

And should I be reading both at Lauds currently?

Thanks.

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IngoB

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AFAIK:

Ferial day - ordinary weekday without a feast, which liturgically belongs to the previous Sunday.

Festal day - ordinary weekday with a feast.

So it should be one or the other, depending on whether a feast is being celebrated or not.

But I'm sure one of the Divine Office mavens will be along shortly. [Smile]

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Choirboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
A no doubt very basic question, sorry, but what is the difference between Ferial and Festal canticles?

And should I be reading both at Lauds currently?

Thanks.

You only do one or the other, festal or ferial. Which you do depends on the rubrics you're using. In the General Rubrics pre-1955, you'd use the ferial canticle on ferias and the festal canticle on feasts (even if simple, but a true feast not just a memorial or commemoration).

In the "Adaptations" for 1955-1962 in the rubrics this was changed so that the ferial canticle is used when the liturgical color is violet. Otherwise the festal canticle is used. See the 'Changes for Special Offices: (a) Lauds" at the bottom of page xxxvi.

As IngoB noted, a feria is an ordinary weekday (or Saturday) on which there is no feast.

[Edited after confirming reference]

[ 02. May 2006, 17:44: Message edited by: Choirboy ]

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Ian Climacus

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Thank you Ingo and Choirboy.
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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
So far much good words have been said for Winfred Douglas' Monastic Diurnal. The Community of S Mary's revision of the same deserves some hard sell too. By far it remains my favourite breviary. It uses a modern calendar; it includes the entire Psalter spread through a month and has a distinctly Benedictine ethos.

Having combined Vigils and Lauds into one office of Mattins it is more manageable for a contemporary secular life.

I concur! I've gone through episodes of praying from older breviaries to see what I missed out on by being born when I was, and I find myself coming back to the Monastic Diurnal Revised that you've aptly described. The more I use it, the more well-done it seems. A very Benedictine adaptation of our current BCP's Daily Office.

Scott, wondering how fun it might be to take the St Helena Breviary's inclusive-language texts and make a new edition of the MDR out of them. [Smile] But then, the SHB is marvelous work in its own right, and we're all waiting with bated breath, aren't we, for the May 20 release of the SHB: Personal Edition? [Yipee]

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IngoB

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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
As IngoB noted, a feria is an ordinary weekday (or Saturday) on which there is no feast.

Since when is Saturday not an ordinary weekday? Only half-joking. [Smile]

Historical aside, feria actually means "free day" in Latin, basically what we would call a public holiday. And so originally it was used to indicate a Christian feast day! It apparently came to indicate the opposite through referring to Easter Monday as the "second feast day", and then got stuck to Monday (and other weekdays) rather than to the Easter feast...

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
As IngoB noted, a feria is an ordinary weekday (or Saturday) on which there is no feast.

Since when is Saturday not an ordinary weekday? Only half-joking. [Smile]
"Weekday" here in the States means Monday through Friday. I know that in other places it means "a day that isn't Sunday."

"Feria" is used in Latin books to name the weekdays: Feria II is Monday, Feria III Tuesday, through Feria VI, which is Friday. Sabbato is Saturday, and Dominica is Sunday.

I understand that Portuguese, at least as used in Brazil, does this similarly: Friday is something like "Feira Seixta." Not sure of the spelling there.

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Divine Office
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Scott,

How does the St Helena Breviary compare with Benedictine Daily Prayer, which I'm using at the moment?

The SHB sounds interesting, but to be honest I've always been a wee bit cautious about inclusive-language texts. I used to have the [EMAIL]People's Companion to the Breviary[/EMAIL] published by the Carmelites of Indianapolis, for example, but I was never that keen on it.

I know that BDP does use an inclusive-language version of the Grail psalter, which seems OK on the whole. Is the SHB psalter similar to that?


DIVINE OFFICE

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Divine Office
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In the last post I meant to put The People's Companion to the Breviary in italics, but hit the email button instead. Sorry!


DIVINE OFFICE

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Oblatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
How does the St Helena Breviary compare with Benedictine Daily Prayer, which I'm using at the moment? The SHB sounds interesting, but to be honest I've always been a wee bit cautious about inclusive-language texts.

I'd say the SHB is more thoroughly inclusive...they didn't miss a thing. But I must say it's the most thoughtful, unjarring inclusive-language breviary I've encountered. They spent years on this: first the psalter, then the rest of the breviary; and they tested it for a long time before publishing it last December. The scholarship and understanding of texts, rites, and chant are evident.
The psalter is available by itself.

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DitzySpike
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
aren't we, for the May 20 release of the SHB: Personal Edition? [Yipee] [/QB]

The personal edition is exciting; I'm not decided if I'm ordering it - though I'll probably do at some point of time.

The inclusive language is very sensitively done and sounds like English, except I'm a bit anal about switching the Psalm texts from the third person to the second person. Only the freshness of the ICEL psalter is able to get me out of that mode, not inclusived versions reworked on existing texts (like the Carmelite books).

The canticles selected in St Helena are a gem. I'll be very happy if OHC's Monastic Breviary gets updated with those texts.

(I'll be a very happy person too if Philip H. Pfatteicher takes out the music in his Daily Prayer of the Church and in its place put in the Sanctorale and the Common of Saints - and squeeze in the Ave Maris Stella.)

I know it is the unalterable human condition that the perfect breviary is always elusive [Smile]

By the way, has anyone seen an abbreviated eastern book of hours in decent and unaffected English? The psalter of the 70 is awful.

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Boadicea Trott
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quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
I know it is the unalterable human condition that the perfect breviary is always elusive [Smile]

By the way, has anyone seen an abbreviated eastern book of hours in decent and unaffected English? The psalter of the 70 is awful.

I think we should do a SOF breviary !

I didn`t know it was possible to get an abbreviated Eastern Book of Hours - surely that`s a contradiction in terms ? [Devil]
I`m still using my Hapgood version of the EO Hours, but I hate the layout. I would also be in the market for a really good EO Hours, but I would want a comprehensive one with all the daily Saints` Troparia and Kontakia... [Big Grin]

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DitzySpike
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Not a book of prayer nor a book that can be handled with tender care; this software brings out the day's kontakion and troparion.
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Boadicea Trott
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quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
Not a book of prayer nor a book that can be handled with tender care; this software brings out the day's kontakion and troparion.

This is great, isn`t it ? But I still love having a hefty book to hold and treasure, and take with me.
An alphabetical and date listing of daily troparia and kontakia (including many Western saints) can be found here .

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Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
I think we should do a SOF breviary !

*contemplates the committee meetings that would be neccessary, and the arguments that would come out of them, and shudders mightily*

For those wondering about my friend who wanted set prayers for hours kinda thing, she was digging through my collected religious books and found one I inherited from my great-grandmother called The Key of Heaven: A Complete Catholic Prayer Book (1926, Benzinger Brothers). She copied out the morning and night prayers, editing out a couple of Hail Marys and the Memorare, and is happy with her new discipline.

[ 04. May 2006, 06:05: Message edited by: Spiffy da WonderSheep ]

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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540

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Reading another thread, now I've figured what I'm missing in the new breviaries. Feasts like Sacred Heart. Time to fall in love again with the English Office - love the Sacrosancte and all those cheesy things.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
jlg

What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98

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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da WonderSheep:
quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
I think we should do a SOF breviary !

*contemplates the committee meetings that would be neccessary, and the arguments that would come out of them, and shudders mightily*
Considering that over the course of four years (or whatever it's been) shipmates haven't even been able to agree on a t-shirt design, there's not much hope.

On the other hand, it would be a great publicity item (Yoo-hoo! Ancient Mariner and Simon!).

On the third hand, it would probably be difficult to come up with something reasonably priced that would sell well enough not to be a loss for the Ship.

On the fourth hand (perhaps we should be using feet now?), I'd sure buy one. [Big Grin]

Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
John H
Shipmate
# 9599

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Great to see this thread still going strong. Seems ages since I dropped by [Biased]

Has anyone else here come across Celebrating Daily Prayer? It's an update of the CCP pocket edition to mirror the release of the definitive edition of CW:DP. It's rather nice - yet another incremental improvement on the pocket editions of CCP.

If it's not in terribly bad taste to link back to my own blog, there are more details about CDP in a recent post I did there. [Smile]

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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."

Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

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quote:
Originally posted by John H:
Has anyone else here come across Celebrating Daily Prayer? It's an update of the CCP pocket edition to mirror the release of the definitive edition of CW:DP. It's rather nice - yet another incremental improvement on the pocket editions of CCP.

Uh-oh, I may have to order it. Could you please say more about how it may differ from the previous Celebrating Common Prayer? I gather this previous one, from 2002-3 or so, was based partly on the Preliminary Edition of CW:DP and that the 2005 Celebrating Daily Prayer updates it to stay in step with the permanent version? Or has more been done?

I agree that the CCP/CDP format is superb for traveling yet still provides a substantial office.

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John H
Shipmate
# 9599

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Scott: CDP isn't vastly different from the 2002 pocket edition of CCP (i.e. the one with black covers).

It has a few extra texts/responses within the offices themselves (eg it includes the opening canticle for each office), and some nice additional resources such as a section of hymns and poems. It also includes collects for each Sunday of the year, but unfortunately they're the simplified "Noddy goes to Collectland" versions rather than the original CW versions as found in CW:DP.

The most obviously-visible benefit is that it is a rather more attractive volume than the somewhat utilitarian 2002 edition. Overall, though, it's more a case of small changes that are mostly for the better when you notice them.

One difference is it is quite a bit larger than previous pocket editions - especially if you compare it with the original pocket edition of CCP. If you click the thumbnail image of the cover in the blog post I linked above, this will take you through to an actual-size image of the book.

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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."

Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Craigmaddie
c/o The Pickwick Club
# 8367

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Tonight at Evening Prayer I found myself chanting the Canticle of The Marriage Feast of the Lamb in response to having listened to a recording of plainsong that evening. What a difference to the way I said (sic) the Office! It has renewed my desire to start singing more of the Office. Could anyone recommend a CD where the Office is sung/chanted so I could try to pick up some of the melodies?

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Via Veritas Vita

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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278

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quote:
Originally posted by Craigmaddie:
Tonight at Evening Prayer I found myself chanting the Canticle of The Marriage Feast of the Lamb in response to having listened to a recording of plainsong that evening. What a difference to the way I said (sic) the Office! It has renewed my desire to start singing more of the Office. Could anyone recommend a CD where the Office is sung/chanted so I could try to pick up some of the melodies?

Here's a very good recording of Compline.
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Patrick
Shipmate
# 305

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Christ is Risen!
Regarding abbreviated Horologia, such exist: the Hours of Prayer, for instance, available through Light and Life Publications, and Let Us Pray to the Lord, Eastern Christian Publications. The best bargain, though, is the Holy Trinity Monastery Unabbreviated Horologion, which contains many tropars and kondaks from the Menaion as well as Lenten and Paschal material. The Holy Transfiguration Horologion has the tropars and kondaks for all the yearly celebrations, but is expensive. The older New Skete books have the most variable material, especially their Book of the Hours, available from their website at a discount. Avoid the newer books from that source, IMHO they are far too idiosyncratic. The Byzantine Catholic Basilian Sisters have affordable office books, which, together, give almost everything necessary for the daily celebration of the Office. They have published a Matins book, a Vesper volume, a very comprehensive Triodion, a Pentcostarion and a Festal Menaion. The material for Matins is not always complete.

Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621

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Patrick, this is **extremely** helpful indeed; thank you very much !

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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540

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Thanks Patrick. It is good to see the horologion from St Sophia Press available easily online. One question, given the length of the hours of any office, how does one decide on how much and which text to pray? I also have this impression that the horologion consists of only the choir parts of the office; the priests' parts being found in other books - does it feel incomplete somewhat to pray from only one book?
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Patrick
Shipmate
# 305

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Christ is Risen!
I am happy to see interest in the Horologion. I forgot to mention last time Archbishop Joseph Raya's (May his memory be eternal!)Byzantine Daily Worship. It has all the tropars and kondaks for the year, plus additional material for Sunday and feastday Vespers,lacking only the Midnight Office. Like Miss Hapgood, and the volumes by the Basilian Sisters, the priestly prayers for Matins and Vespers are included in the offices.
The Horologion is not a breviary and does, indeed, omit the aforementioned priestly prayers, which, of course, could be prayed by anyone if the office were privately recited. Such prayers are the priest's substitute for the people's/choir's/deacon's texts. For instance,as the priest recites his Matins prayers, the reader is chanting the Six Psalms. Nothing vital to the Office, I believe, is lost when such prayers are omitted in private recitation.
But there's the rub: is there anyroom for the recitation of the Divine Office in the absence of a priest? The Russian tradition, including the Old Believers, would say yes. When said by the laity, specific subsitutions for priestly prayers are provided: "Kyrie Eleison" said a specific number of times in place of the litanies, and "Through the prayers of our holy fathers" replacing the priestly exclamations. How much of the Office is to be said? To the best of my knowledge, there is no clerical obligation among the Orthodox to say the daily offices, unlike our Catholic and Anglican brethern. Since I am a deacon,however, whenever I serve at the Liturgy, I shall have prayed (at least privately) Vespers, Compline and Matins. The First Hour follows Matins and the third and Sixth are recited before the Liturgy by a reader.
For the laity, the little Hours are quite manageable, taking no more than twenty minutes altogether. Vespers is also manageable. Matins, however, is a different story. I generally read only one canon, usually from the Octoechos.
As a recent discussion on the Ely Forum suggests, the Prayer Book Offices are about the right length for the non-monastic clergy and laity, when said dutifully. For us Orthodox, and those who wish to pray the Eastern Offices: under the supervision of your spiritual adviser, choose that which is do-able, which, in most cases will be the Little Hours and Compline.

Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Thank you from me too Patrick.


Looking back to the West: more a question on why rather than how. In the Confession in my (Benedictine) Diurnal, after God and Mary are mentioned Michael the Archangel, John the Forerunner and Peter and Paul (and St Benedict of course).

Is there a reason these have been chosen? Is this standard RC practice? [I only recall Mary and the Saints at the Masses I've attended] I assume Michael as leader of the spiritual realm; the others I could hazard a guess, but it would be just that.

Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged



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