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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Daily offices
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J.S. Bach
Shipmate
# 9633
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Posted
Now that ordinary time has begun, my usual restlessness with lectionaries has reared its ugly head. I would be curious to hear what other daily office prayers think about the various options. Below are a few:
1. Episcopal Church (USA) Book of Common Prayer Daily Office (adapted by the other U.S. mainline denominations)
Scroll down the page to "Daily Office Lectionary".
2. Church of England Common Worship
Electronic calendar versions are also available.
3. Consultation on Common Texts Revised Common Lectionary Daily Readings
You can preview the Easter season readings on the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America's Renewing Worship site.
I have most often used #1 (and am using it now, as published in Philip Pfatteicher's office book), used #2 for half of 2005, and am intrigued by #3. I am particularly curious if anyone has tried #3.
I look forward to hearing your opinions!
Blessings,
J.S. Bach
Posts: 104 | From: Near Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005
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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
Shipmate
# 11086
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Posted
I tend to take a different approach which perhaps results in less text being covered, but I find it more manageable.
I use for my office book the RC Liturgy of the Hours (US version, since I think it has far superior translations of the Gospel canticles to those found in the UK Divine Office.)
If I do not go to Mass on a given day, I read that day's Mass gospel lection instead of the Short Chapter at either MP or EP (taken from the Missal). If, on such a day, I manage to say both MP and EP (alas it is rare for me to find time for both these days), then I use the Mass gospel lection for one and the Short Chapter for the other. This substitution of other readings for the Short Chapter is specifically provided for by GILH.
If I do go to Mass, then I use the Short Chapter set out in the breviary at MP and/or EP.
The RC books are very conveniently set out with the readings printed in full at the proper days. This reduces the need for lectionary and bible as well as breviary - although the arrangment mentioned above does often require Missal as well as breviary. But, as I say, it is a huge help to have the readings set out in full day by day.
SHSV
Posts: 139 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2006
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TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:
For my part I too use my daily commute for prayer; my choice is Matins and Vespers from the Little Office of the BVM. (Matins in the morning, between seven and eight, Vespers in the late afternoon/evening, between five and six.) Before I had that I used to work through the Psalter. Because of my work routine this gives a fair degree of consistency although it does generally result in my saying Matins far too late in the day, and Vespers too early. If anyone has any other suggestions for how I might organise this or which offices I might choose, they would be most welcome.
Anthony.
Hi Anthony, and BTW welcome. I wish I could help, but I know nothing at all about specifically Catholic resources for the Office. The only thing I can suggest is the Anglican Breviary. Scroll down to the bottom of the page for a links to "lessons" in all the Hours, and click the link of your choice for a listing of the readings etc.
Here's what they cite for Lauds, for example:
-- [Prayer Before the Office (A Section)];
-- The Dual Prayer (Our Father and Hail Mary) (A Section);
-- The Opening Versicles (A Section);
-- Five Psalms, with their antiphons (usually taken from the weekly Psalter, but may come from the Proper or Common);
-- The Chapter;
-- The Hymn;
-- The Benedictus (A Section) with its antiphon;
-- [The Preces, said only on penitential days (A Section);]
-- The Salutation, Bidding, and Collect of the Day;
-- Commemorations, including the Common Commemoration;
-- The Closing Versicles (A Section);
-- The final Our Father, with its versicle and response;
-- The Seasonal Marian Antiphon
Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
Bumping the thread up before it slides off the page. But not without content:
A friend purchased the new Saint Helena Breviary, Personal Edition, at the Episcopal Church General Convention, and reports that it's about 5x8 or so, not so thick, and not so heavy as the monastic one, and as I thought, it's a version without the chant notation. Basically an excellent update of the Order of the Holy Cross/Order of St Helena's earlier A Monastic Breviary.
Wonder whether the OHC monks will adopt this new one? I think they should, but I'm not one of them.
I gave up on Amazon and have ordered a personal edition (for travel, you see) from churchpub.org - the publisher.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
Yesterday I ordered a copy of the one-volume traditional Latin breviary which will be available from Southwell Books in September. It is the 1961 Diurnale Romanum, and has all the pre-Vatican II hours except Matins.
When my regular bookseller telephoned the distributor to pre-order me a copy, he asked who was actually undertaking the reprinting of the diurnale. He was told that that information was confidential for the present!
This seems slightly cloak-and-dagger and intriguing! In the meantime, I must brush up on my Latin pronounciation. The breviary will make an interesting companion to The Anglican Breviary.
Incidently, Baronius Press are also reprinting the three-volume Latin-English breviary originally published by St John's Abbey in the early 1960s. It is hoped that this will be available this year. It is also a must-have!
DIVINE OFFICE
Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
Shipmate
# 11086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
Yesterday I ordered a copy of the one-volume traditional Latin breviary which will be available from Southwell Books in September. It is the 1961 Diurnale Romanum, and has all the pre-Vatican II hours except Matins.
When my regular bookseller telephoned the distributor to pre-order me a copy, he asked who was actually undertaking the reprinting of the diurnale. He was told that that information was confidential for the present!
This seems slightly cloak-and-dagger and intriguing! In the meantime, I must brush up on my Latin pronounciation. The breviary will make an interesting companion to The Anglican Breviary.
Incidently, Baronius Press are also reprinting the three-volume Latin-English breviary originally published by St John's Abbey in the early 1960s. It is hoped that this will be available this year. It is also a must-have!
DIVINE OFFICE
Dear Divine Office,
All very intriguing, as you say! Do you have a link to a place where one might place an order?
SHSV
[ 21. June 2006, 12:04: Message edited by: Sub Hoc Signo Vinces ]
Posts: 139 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2006
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
quote:
All very intriguing, as you say! Do you have a link to a place where one might place an order
The Diurnale Romanum can be pre-ordered at [EMAIL]www.southwellbooks.com[/EMAIL]
DIVINE OFFICE
Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
Shipmate
# 11086
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Posted
A quick bibliographical query for shipmates.
I have the revised edition of Celebrating Common Prayer published in 2002 (ISBN 0826465293).
In the foreword, it says that the text has been revised for those who expect their daily prayer to use the texts set out in Common Worship Daily Prayer.
As I have said on this thread and others, I cannot get on with the CWDP version of the Magnificat when it says (v5), "casting down ... lifting up ...". It ought more accurately to be, "he has cast down ... he has lifted up ...". I can already hear Shipmates groaning - not again, the sad old pedant is back on that old translation hobby-horse, why can't he get over it or just correct it mentally?
My question is, did the earlier version(s) of CCP have (a) different version(s) of the Magnificat - specifically one with finite verbs rather than participles in verse 5?
I expect that fellow travellers (such as Scott Knitter or Divine Office, to name but the most obvious suspects) will have extensive historical libraries of these texts and will be able to answer in a flash.
If the answer is yes, can you tell me what the edition is (date, ISBN maybe)? Putting CCP into AbeBooks or some such will just bring up a confusing plethora of different editions not necessairly sufficiently differentiated to allow me to get the right one (assuming there is one).
Thanks,
SHSV
Posts: 139 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2006
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
Hello SHSV
I did indeed have two copies of the first edition of Celebrating Common Prayer with the blue cover, published in 1992, I think. One copy had a hard cover, the other a kind of imitation leather cover.
Unfortunately, I don't have either of them to hand at the moment to check on the wording of the Magnificat. One ended up in the library of a local church, whilst I think the other may be in the loft.
I also had a copy of the small pocket maroon edition of CCP, which I think was published in 1994. However, I gave that to a charity shop amongst other books last week!
As a matter of interest, what do other folks think concerning the merits of CCP versus CW:DP?
Also, does anyone know if the Society of St Francis plan to further revise their office book in view of the publication of CW:DP?
DIVINE OFFICE
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
I have the 1992 CCP. In the text, among the canticles, the Magnificat has the "casting down/lifting up" translation. But the little bookmark/cheat card with the Song of Zechariah, Glory to..., Magnificat, and Lord's prayer on it has "cast down/lifted up".
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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J.S. Bach
Shipmate
# 9633
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
As a matter of interest, what do other folks think concerning the merits of CCP versus CW:DP?
DIVINE OFFICE
CCP (1992) was the first full-blown daily office book I purchased (I have fond memories of calling Blackwell's in Oxford to order it). I like the way CCP builds in seven seasonal propers and commons of saints into the Sunday-to-Saturday offices. Its presentation of the lectionary, collects, and canticle antiphons together is the best arrangement I have seen.
I recently ordered CW:DP (alas, it has not arrived yet). From previews on the C of E website, it is similar in approach but has separate seasonal offices. Two things I like are the huge number of canticles and the marvelous Common Worship psalter. It is one of the most beautiful renderings of the psalms in modern English, and having the refrains with the psalms themselves keeps one from flipping pages simply to recite a refrain. I do bemoan the lack of a lectionary printed in the book. Perhaps they will revise it in the future and follow CCP (1992) in this regard. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
J.S. Bach
Posts: 104 | From: Near Washington, DC | Registered: Jun 2005
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Belated update: I did order The Divine Office for Dodos from amazon.com and it was shipped promptly. Sadly, you do have to send away for the ribbons and bookmarks, and roughly two weeks later I'm still tapping my toes and twiddling my thumbs, wondering when they are going to show up in the mailbox.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
Belated update: I did order The Divine Office for Dodos from amazon.com and it was shipped promptly. Sadly, you do have to send away for the ribbons and bookmarks, and roughly two weeks later I'm still tapping my toes and twiddling my thumbs, wondering when they are going to show up in the mailbox.
Fret not! Mine arrived within just a few days.
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
CCP with its variants get a bit confusing. There's the 1992 version in its classic blue cover. There's a 2002 version which is a pocket version with the Common Worship Psalms. Has anyone seen the 2005 version (Celebrating Daily Prayer)? Does a Common Worship version of the full (1992) Celebrating Common Prayer exist?
Another Daily Office question; has anyone seen versions of the monastic office where the psalms end with varying doxologies? I rather like them as they capture a good sense of perichoresis.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
Shipmate
# 11086
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Posted
Thank you, Divine Office.
It's interesting, jlg, that the cheat card differs from the printed text in the book itself. Must be the product of confusion between so many versions to choose from (cf. Ditzy Spike's post).
SHSV
Posts: 139 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2006
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John H
Shipmate
# 9599
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
Has anyone seen the 2005 version (Celebrating Daily Prayer)?
I've got Celebrating Daily Prayer and it's a very handsome little volume. It's a little bit richer than the 2002 pocket CCP, a more attractive book, but also quite a bit larger. But well worth upgrading if you're using the 2002 edition.
quote:
Does a Common Worship version of the full (1992) Celebrating Common Prayer exist?
Yes: it's called Common Worship:Daily Prayer. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Seriously, the influence of CCP on CW:DP is so strong that I suspect the people behind CCP have decided an updated edition of the full volume is superfluous. Equally, CW:DP is crying out for a pocket-sized, abridged version - and lo and behold, the pocket edition of CCP is now "Celebrating Daily Prayer", subtitled, "A pocket version of Common Worship:Daily Prayer".
So CW:DP and CDP can now perform the same complementary roles that the various CCP editions previously fulfilled.
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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sub Hoc Signo Vinces:
As I have said on this thread and others, I cannot get on with the CWDP version of the Magnificat
I must confess that at this point in CCP Evening Prayer I most often chant it to a randomly chosen setting from memory, usually from the Parish Psalter - and thereby avoid all modern translation issues
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
Also, does anyone know if the Society of St Francis plan to further revise their office book in view of the publication of CW:DP?
DIVINE OFFICE
Fairly complicated instruction on aligning the Daily Office: SFF with CW:DP lectionary can be found in their latest ordo. . I'm also curious about whether they are going to issue a new edition of their book.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
Shipmate
# 11086
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Posted
A query about the RC Office of Readings in LOTH. Am I right to take GILH para. 59 as meaning that, if you have said Vespers on (say) Wednesday - or the time for Vespers has passed - and you want to say the OR, then the OR you say is for the next day (in this case, Thursday)?
I suppose this must follow from the presumption that liturgical days run from evening to evening.
Is that correct?
SHSV
PS GILH link:
here
[ 23. June 2006, 19:55: Message edited by: Sub Hoc Signo Vinces ]
Posts: 139 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2006
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
I thought it meant that you could do either.
Another LOTH question: what should I say tonight, EPII of Sacred Heart or EPI of Birth of SJB?
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
As a feast of the Lord, EP2 of the Sacred Heart overrides EP1 of JtB's Nativity - unless you're saying it in a church/chapel/community dedicated to the Baptist.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
As a feast of the Lord, EP2 of the Sacred Heart overrides EP1 of JtB's Nativity - unless you're saying it in a church/chapel/community dedicated to the Baptist.
Well answered! Two marks! <applause> ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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achew
Apprentice
# 9924
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Posted
I find that CW:DP is quite heavy and unwieldy with such a waste of space - too much blank space between various parts.
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Do Sundays not count as solemnities of the Lord? If so, why did 2EP of JtB take precedence over First Vespers of Sunday today?
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
In my MD, the Nativity of StJB is not just a double, but a double 1st Class. The table of concurrence says that the Saturday eve. Vespers would then be of the feast with commemoration of the Sunday.
This would be different if StJB had a lower rank, e.g. Greater Double.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Do Sundays not count as solemnities of the Lord? If so, why did 2EP of JtB take precedence over First Vespers of Sunday today?
Howard Galley's A Prayer Book Office has helpful tables that work with the current Episcopal Church calendar. This evening there's a concurrence between (A) a Major Feast of Our Lord (John the Baptist) and (B) a Lesser Sunday (a Sunday not of Advent, Lent, nor Easter). The chart says that at Vespers/Evensong today, we are to use "Office of A, nothing of B."
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Okay. I hadn't registered that there were "Lesser Sundays". I realise that there are "Greater Sundays" but assumed all Sundays were solemnities.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Okay. I hadn't registered that there were "Lesser Sundays". I realise that there are "Greater Sundays" but assumed all Sundays were solemnities.
I think these concurrences are the only times when the "lesserness" of Sundays like tomorrow shows up. It's just a plain old green solemnity of a Sunday, and that allows for its First Evensong/Vespers to be pre-empted by that of the Major Feast of Our Lord that is St John Baptist. The Sunday will still have its own Vespers tomorrow.
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Sub Hoc Signo Vinces
Shipmate
# 11086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
Okay. I hadn't registered that there were "Lesser Sundays". I realise that there are "Greater Sundays" but assumed all Sundays were solemnities.
Thurible
I am thankful for the simplifications in the modern secular Roman breviary (LOTH / Divine Office). The table at the front is a simple hierarchy and the higher always displaces the lower - in effect, the answer is always, "All of nobler, nothing of lesser". It is a radical simplification but none the worse for that.
SHSV
Posts: 139 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2006
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
Some one slap me on my wrist! My term break has ended and I'll be having lots of travelling time to read the office. So should I bring my cute little black book (Daily Office Year B) together with Celebrating Common Prayer, or Galley's Prayerbook Office, or The English Office?
The first to give advice I'll give an abbatial mitre and pledge obedience.
(Since many of us are doing the office, what about streamlining our use and then start another third order or associate for an existing community? And we might even collaborate reflections here! somewhere in this board!
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
The English Office. I'll PM you my postal address. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
Some one slap me on my wrist! My term break has ended and I'll be having lots of travelling time to read the office. So should I bring my cute little black book (Daily Office Year B) together with Celebrating Common Prayer, or Galley's Prayerbook Office, or The English Office?
Galley's PBO, as it uses an up-to-date calendar and has the psalter translation with which I'm most familiar. Oh, this is for you, not me. Sorry!
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Well, I finally found a summary of the IMPORTANT changes at the ECUSA General Convention, to wit, the changes to the Church Calendar.
From here, bulleting added for clarity
quote:
- Entered Florence Li Tim-Oi, Janani Luwum,
Philander Chase, William Temple and Clive
Staples Lewis in the Calendar of the Church
Year (BCP, p. 15-30) and in future revisions of
“Lesser Feasts and Fasts” (A059). - Referred to the appropriate subcommittee for
further research, consultation, and
recommendation the commemoration of the
Rev. Dr. John Roberts Referred date change
for Harriet Tubman Commemoration to the
Standing Commission on Liturgy and Music
during the preparation of the new revision
of”Lesser Feasts and Fasts” (A061). - Authorized changing the name for the
commemoration of the “Martyrs of Lyons” to
“Blandina and Her Companions, The Martyrs of
Lyons,” as found in “Lesser Feasts and Fasts”
(A065). - Directed the Standing Commission on Liturgy
and Music to consider the commemoration of
the Dorchester Chaplains as an addition to the
Calendar of the Church Year (B008). - Added the commemoration of the Martyrs of
Sudan as an addition to the Calendar of the
Church Year on May 16 (C003). - Added Supreme Court Justice Thurgood
Marshall to the Calendar of the Church Year on
May 17 (C016). - Added Joan of Arc to the Calendar of the
Church Year on May 30 (C034). - Added the Confession of Martha to the Calendar
of the Church Year on April 13(C035). - Added Genocide Remembrance Day to the
Calendar of the Church Year on April 24
(C043).
Thoughts? Comments? Flying monkeys?
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Entered Florence Li Tim-Oi...in the Calendar of the Church
It's about time. I get really tired of explaining that we've had woman priests for the last sixty (not thirty) years and then explaining who she is.
Thanks for the update, Spiffy.
[ 26. June 2006, 18:19: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
Just got me Saint Helena Breviary Personal Edition. Handsomely bound; would like more durable paper. And why, oh why are there typos? This week is (on p. 589) listed as "Proper 7: Week of the Sunday closest to June 72." And on p. 40, under Monday Diurnum Respond, it says, "Response: Do not forsake me, O God of my salvation." Response to what? Aagh...I'm going to have to pencil in a line of text to be able to use that office. The book doesn't appear to be riddled with typos, so I hope I don't find any more.
But it is promising as an expansion and inclusivizing of the BCP 1979 office: the psalter is given in 1-150 order, contiguously, so it can be used three ways (or more): the BCP appointed psalm schedule of seven weeks; the traditional in-course 30-day schedule, or the OSH two-week schedule given in a table (and of course any other schedule could be applied as long as it's a fourfold office of MP, midday, EP, and Compline). Antiphons, responsories, and the OSH's wonderful hymn and canticle texts are given. No musical notation or pointing. Four ribbon markers, all green. It could really use six. This and a small Bible would travel quite well...although certainly not in a pocket.
The Monastic Edition was obviously well proofed and prayed with before publication; unfortunately, Church Publishing took over the typesetting and layout for the Personal Edition and didn't use that same level of care. If they had given it to a group to pray for two weeks, they would have quickly found the Monday Diurnum typo.
A good breviary, but now I wish they'd send me a corrected copy once they correct typos. Where are editors these days? ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif) That said, it's quite usable (after I pencil in that line), barring any other critical omissions.
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
But it is promising as an expansion and inclusivizing of the BCP 1979 office: the psalter is given in 1-150 order
A very good idea to put the psalms together in a section. Sounds like the next item in the line of 'Prayer Book Office' books.
The monastic edition groups a few Psalms under one antiphon. Does this version include antiphons for the individual psalms?
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
I can't work out where I found this last night (it may have been on the Ship, but I can't see it anywhere) but here are some thoughts of the Bishop of Ebbsfleet on CW:DP.
Thurible
[ 27. June 2006, 09:43: Message edited by: Thurible ]
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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John H
Shipmate
# 9599
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thurible:
I can't work out where I found this last night (it may have been on the Ship, but I can't see it anywhere) but here are some thoughts of the Bishop of Ebbsfleet on CW:DP.
I think someone linked this article yesterday. I read it some months ago and it is very helpful.
+Ebbsfleet's invocation of the "Western Catholic tradition" is one I will bear in mind for justifying my own use of Anglican/RC offices as a Lutheran (a.k.a. a Christian "living in the tradition and continuation of the Evangelical Reformation of the Catholic Church", as one Lutheran blogger puts it).
The good bishop also recommends Hymns of Prayer and Praise as a good source of Office hymns. Has anyone else tried this? Is it worth looking out for?
Finally, +Ebbsfleet is right in criticising CW:DP for the lack of psalm and lectionary tables. The lack of psalm tables in particular makes the book quite hard to use in practice, which is why Celebrating Daily Prayer (the pocket version, which includes psalms within the offices themselves) is so useful.
(I'm not so bothered about the lack of lectionary, since - whisper it - I use M'Cheyne's Calendar anyway. As a good Evangelical, I find it very difficult to follow any bible-reading plan that doesn't go through the whole thing, every last corner of Habakkuk and all. I dare say this is very naughty and misses the point of the Office entirely. Well, bite me. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif) )
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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."
Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John H:
The good bishop also recommends Hymns of Prayer and Praise as a good source of Office hymns. Has anyone else tried this? Is it worth looking out for?
The best collection of office hymns in my opinion. Straight forward language but far from banal. The hymns 'grows' on you with repeated use.
'Hymns from the Hours' from GIA is a good choice too, if you prefer a more mainstream hymnal.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
I would also agree that Hymns for Prayer and Praise seems an excellent resource for the daily office. It has an interesting selection of hymns for all the offices on Sundays, ferial days and feasts, each of which has both a plainsong and a conventional melody. I think it provides a far richer selection of material than simply relying on a standard hymn book. In my opinion, it would also be far more rewarding to use it in conjunction with the UK and USA editions of the RC Liturgy of the Hours, instead of using the hymns provided in these volumes.
I've never seen Hymns for the Hours, though. It would be interesting to see how it compares with Hymns for Prayer and Praise.
I also devoutly wish that a daily office lectionary had been provided with Common Worship: Daily Prayer, as it was with Celebrating Common Prayer. Perhaps this omission could be corrected in a future edition.
DIVINE OFFICE
Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy da WonderSheep:
Well, I finally found a summary of the IMPORTANT changes at the ECUSA General Convention, to wit, the changes to the Church Calendar.
From here, bulleting added for clarity
[QUOTE] [list]
[*]Entered Florence Li Tim-Oi, Janani Luwum,
Philander Chase, William Temple and Clive
Staples Lewis in the Calendar of the Church
Year (BCP, p. 15-30) and in future revisions of
“Lesser Feasts and Fasts” (A059).
Philander Chase? Sound like a character from
Carry On in the Sacristy.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by DitzySpike:
The monastic edition groups a few Psalms under one antiphon. Does this version include antiphons for the individual psalms?
We're discussing the Saint Helena Breviary, Personal Edition.
As far as I can tell, the Personal Edition provides the same texts for everything that the Monastic Edition provides. There are no antiphons given in the psalter itself, but the "antiphon on the Psalter" is given for each day (day of the week, commons, proper of saints) at each office, and this antiphon covers the entire psalter selection for that office.
On first-class feasts, for those following the OSH psalter distribution, a set of five psalms is listed for Matins and another for Vespers, and the Personal Edition provides the five antiphons (with "or" between them) without specifying that one is said with each of the five psalms. They leave this flexible for those using the BCP distribution or the 30-day in-course one. One of the five antiphons can then be chosen to cover the whole psalter selection.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by angloid:
Philander Chase? Sound like a character from
Carry On in the Sacristy.
Philander Chase founded Kenyon College all by his lonesome, bringing Episcopalian theology to the wild, wild Western United States (which during his lifetime was Ohio and Illinois). And he divorced and remarried and STILL made it into the Episcopate. (hint, hint, bludgeon)
Apparently his father (Dudley Chase) was rather enamored of the poetry of Edward Young.
[ 27. June 2006, 18:07: Message edited by: Spiffy da WonderSheep ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Okay, I'm hallucenating things, the Rt. Rev. Chase remarried, but his first wife died of consumption. I apologize for my misteak.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
It's probably been mentioned on the 20+ pages of the thread, but in case it hasn't...
I just discovered Praystation Portable, a podcast of the daily office!
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
I've just obtained a copy of the Antiphonale Monasticum today, which provides the chants for the traditional Benedictine hours of Lauds, Prime, Terce, Sext, None, Vespers and Compline. The last edition of the Antiphonale Monasticum was published in 1934, but it has been reprinted by the Abbey of Solesmes in recent years, as it is still used by some Benedictine abbeys for chanting the daily office.
I believe that Solesmes are currently preparing a revised edition of the Antiphonale Monasticum in several volumes to take account of the modern changes in the office. One volume has already been published.
Is anyone else familiar with the Antiphonale Monasticum, and has anyone ever tried using it to chant all or part of their daily office?
I obtained my copy from the online bookshop of the Abbey of Le Barroux in France, who also publish a very nice daily missal in Latin and French for the Tridentine rite, which they use for all Masses. Needless to say, I also obtained a copy of this!
Check them out here.
Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Pisco Sours
Apprentice
# 11609
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Posted
So in the St. Helena, what is supposed to come before "Do not forsake me..." on p.40? (Brand spanking new Christian here, and it seems vaguely familiar even to me, but I can't think of what must come before it.)
But honestly, I love this Breviary a lot more than I do the service in the BCP, not least because of different services depending on the day of the week. Also, when I use the SHB in conjunction with the Daily Office book, there's a lot less flippity than when I try to juggle a prayer book and a lectionary calendar and a Bible. Any flippity at all beyond going to a ribbon just takes me out of the moment.
Also, I just discovered the New Zealand Prayer Book, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it has differing MP/EP for each day of the week. Yay!
Given my job, though, sometimes it's all I can do to just rush through the Daily Devotions!
Posts: 19 | From: Alexandria, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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John H
Shipmate
# 9599
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
Given my job, though, sometimes it's all I can do to just rush through the Daily Devotions!
This leads into a point I've been wanting to raise for a few days with the other office-devotees on this thread: To what extent do you treat the office as a discipline, and to what extent do you treat it as a resource?
In other words, do you consider yourself to be under a commitment - perhaps one voluntarily adopted, but a commitment nonetheless - to say certain appointed offices day in day out come what may, or do you see the office as something you can dip in and out of?
Personally, I try to follow a pattern of saying morning prayer and night prayer on a daily basis (as that fits well into my daily routine), and if possible to add evening prayer for solemnities. At times I could even kid myself that I was following a disciplined programme of prayer: and then I find myself driving to work for a few days (rather than taking the train), the weather gets hotter, and the next thing is I've barely picked up the office book for days.
To be honest, I first discovered the office in the sense of being a resource - something to be used as and when it was appropriate or helpful - and only more recently have I become aware that for some people, saying that you "pray the office" implies that you do so in a highly disciplined, regular manner.
Now I can see that ideally one would follow a rhythm of prayer in a disciplined fashion. But equally part of the appeal of the office is that it is the prayer of the church, the church's unceasing prayer and praise to God, and that (to quote Basil Moss, who compares it to playing in an orchestra), "When we pray, we take up our fiddles, and when we stop we put them down again - but the music never stops".
That does at least suggest that a certain amount of personal indiscipline need not necessarily undermine the nature of the office itself.
What do other people think? How disciplined are you in sticking to particular rhythm of daily prayer?
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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."
Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
So in the St. Helena, what is supposed to come before "Do not forsake me..." on p.40? (Brand spanking new Christian here, and it seems vaguely familiar even to me, but I can't think of what must come before it.)
The Monday Diurnum Respond on p. 40 should read:
Reader: You have been my helper; leave me not.
Response: Do not forsake me, O God of my salvation.
Fortunately, I haven't found any other errors of that magnitude (leaving out an entire line of text). Don't blame the sisters; it's Church Publishing that retypeset the book and isn't quite as careful as the sisters are.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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