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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Daily offices
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TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John H:
Now I can see that ideally one would follow a rhythm of prayer in a disciplined fashion. But equally part of the appeal of the office is that it is the prayer of the church, the church's unceasing prayer and praise to God, and that (to quote Basil Moss, who compares it to playing in an orchestra), "When we pray, we take up our fiddles, and when we stop we put them down again - but the music never stops".
That does at least suggest that a certain amount of personal indiscipline need not necessarily undermine the nature of the office itself.
What do other people think? How disciplined are you in sticking to particular rhythm of daily prayer?
Yes, I think of the office as something I ought to do, as well as something that's beneficial to me (which it most definitely is). I sing Morning Prayer/Lauds every day - although last week I didn't get around to it till afternoon a couple of days! (I just finished a job, so am not getting up at dawn right now.) I think it's important to set time aside for this no matter what.
It's a nice feeling to think I might be starting Morning Prayer ("Oh Lord, open thou our lips") just when somebody else has stopped "Thanks be to God"), BTW! Never thought of it quite like that before.
I know some people say or sing both MP and EP daily, which seems like a lot for me, right now. But I think I'd like to get into at least an abbreviated version of EP at some point, too.
Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
I've just read elsewhere that Newman House Press are shortly to bring out a new edition of their office book which has Lauds and Vespers from the current RC Liturgy of the Hours in both Latin and English.
The new edition will have the propers for most of the litugical year (Advent, Lent, Solemnities and Feasts and ordinary time), rather than just the basic four-week cycle as had the previous edition.
The cost is to be $55 USD. Another must-have for my library!
Contact the publisher here. As yet, they only have the previous edition on their website.
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
Latin and English! Yum, yum.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Pisco Sours
Apprentice
# 11609
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Posted
Discipline or resource? Well, ideally both; I'm trying not so much to get through four services every day no matter what, but I am trying to get to the readings each day and I'm attempting the full Psalter in 30 days for the first time. The Daily Office is a good way for me to frame that.
I need to be a little, shall we say, flexible at times, but I think at an absolute minimum the readings and psalms are essential each day.
Oh, and the Phos. I get tiny little shivers every time I recite that.
Time for Compline! Good night. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
Posts: 19 | From: Alexandria, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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lizw
Apprentice
# 11281
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
Oh, and the Phos. I get tiny little shivers every time I recite that.
What is the Phos? (I shall probably discover that I am reciting it every day without realising it...)
Posts: 30 | From: London, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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John H
Shipmate
# 9599
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lizw:
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
Oh, and the Phos. I get tiny little shivers every time I recite that.
What is the Phos? (I shall probably discover that I am reciting it every day without realising it...)
"Phos Hilaron" - the evening hymn of the Eastern Church. The best-known English translation is probably John Keble's "Hail, Gladdening Light", though there are a number of others.
Interesting Wikipedia article on the subject, here.
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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."
Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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achew
Apprentice
# 9924
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Posted
Its a disciplined form of prayer for me since my younger days and has seen me through very difficult periods of my life.
There are times when spontaneous prayer seems very tough and you wonder where God is - and when I pray the office I hear God speak to me through the psalms, very often addressing the very difficulties that I am facing then.
As such, I make it a discipline to pray the office (4 fold Anglican CCP or CW:DP) as regularly as possible, trying to stick to times that I have programmed my watch to alert me to!
Posts: 5 | From: Singapore | Registered: Aug 2005
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
Discipline or resource? Well, ideally both; I'm trying not so much to get through four services every day no matter what, but I am trying to get to the readings each day and I'm attempting the full Psalter in 30 days for the first time. The Daily Office is a good way for me to frame that.
I need to be a little, shall we say, flexible at times, but I think at an absolute minimum the readings and psalms are essential each day.
Oh, and the Phos. I get tiny little shivers every time I recite that.
We have a little worship session before and after each of my EFM classes. I used the Phos hilarion for my first ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) . I've almost memorized the chant we use for it during our Evensong.
The 30 day psalter was my first attempt in recent life at "daily devotions". I am thinking of adding that back in to my Compline-plus-scripture from lectionary routine. It's a wonderful way to become familiar with the psalter.
Charlotte
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Pisco Sours
Apprentice
# 11609
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Posted
How essential is singing or chanting the Daily Office? The reason I ask is that my voice is so bad I don't even sing in the shower. I just kind of... murmur it to myself so far.
Posts: 19 | From: Alexandria, VA, USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
I usually read the Office (as in speed-read), and I can carry a tune. But chanting or singing is nice; it adds at least one other dimension to the experience.
Chanting is just speaking on pitch, so don't sweat it.
You might also want to get SSJE's Guard Us Sleeping (also available through Amazon) to hear the office sung. Or listen to the Beeb evensong (etc.).
Charlotte
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Manipled Mutineer
Shipmate
# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
How essential is singing or chanting the Daily Office? The reason I ask is that my voice is so bad I don't even sing in the shower. I just kind of... murmur it to myself so far.
Likewise; I feel that it is unfair to my fellow passengers on the 'bus to inflict my singing on them!
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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John H
Shipmate
# 9599
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Posted
Talking of Phos Hilaron, does anyone know of a tune for the following version as found in Celebrating Common Prayer?
quote:
O gladsome light, of the holy glory of the immortal Father,*
heavenly, holy, blessèd Jesus Christ.
2 Now that we have come to the setting of the sun
and behold the light of evening,*
we praise you, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
3 For it is right at all times to worship you
with voices of praise,*
O Son of God and giver of life:
therefore all the world glorifies you.
Or is it just intended to be sung to Anglican (or other) chant?
As for singing/chanting generally - I enjoy singing the psalms to Anglican chant in private, and have also been known to use a Lutheran setting of matins, vespers and compline - many of the chants work well with the CCP/CW:DP texts.
However, when on the train or at the office I tend to "recite" rather than sing - and by "recite" I just mean moving my lips with barely any sound (which I find preferable to just reading the words, and also in keeping with Hebrews 13:15). That is one reason for my switching from CW:DP to the RC Divine Office - the Grail psalms seem to work better for recitation than the CW psalter.
And as has been discussed on the Vespers and Matins thread, there can be something very powerful and moving about a simple recitation of the office - as I discovered recently when attending evening prayer at the Anglican Shrine at Walsingham.
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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."
Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John H:
Talking of Phos Hilaron, does anyone know of a tune for the following version as found in Celebrating Common Prayer?
Try Andre Gouzes' setting. You can also find a Ukrainian setting on St Gregory's Website.
King's College, London produced recordings of the Gouzes' Evensong setting written for CCP. I suppose the music must be published somewhere.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John H:
Talking of Phos Hilaron, does anyone know of a tune for the following version as found in Celebrating Common Prayer?
quote:
O gladsome light, of the holy glory of the immortal Father,*
heavenly, holy, blessèd Jesus Christ.
2 Now that we have come to the setting of the sun
and behold the light of evening,*
we praise you, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
3 For it is right at all times to worship you
with voices of praise,*
O Son of God and giver of life:
therefore all the world glorifies you.
Or is it just intended to be sung to Anglican (or other) chant?
Yes: it's in the archives of the former Anglican Cistercian monastery at West Malling.
[ETA: Yes to John's first question!]
[ 04. July 2006, 20:30: Message edited by: angloid ]
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Double post to add, the link I gave goes directly to the office of Vespers. Fr Aelred requests that you email him if you want to download it, as it is copyright.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
How essential is singing or chanting the Daily Office? The reason I ask is that my voice is so bad I don't even sing in the shower. I just kind of... murmur it to myself so far.
If murmuring is what works for you, simply think of it your own particular form of chant.
For those of us who love to sing, the physical act of singing or chanting adds something extra. But on a more practical level, what many of us find is that chanting or singing forces us to slow down and pay attention to the words.
Murmuring would serve just as well, if that's what you are comfortable with - the point is to be aware of how you are shaping the phrases of what you are reading, what words you are choosing to emphasize and why, and how that effects the sense of what is being said.
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
I use the Book of Alternative Services. Previously I used the Book of Common Prayer. I am considering investing in an Anglican Breviary, but its 120 bucks. (Or about five bucks US).
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
How essential is singing or chanting the Daily Office? The reason I ask is that my voice is so bad I don't even sing in the shower. I just kind of... murmur it to myself so far.
I like singing/chanting because it forces me to breathe more deeply than ordinary recital of words does. Here's an interesting article about why that's a good thing.
I'm sure a person could develop a way of breathing deeply without singing, though, as jlg and others have suggested. I'm just too lazy, is all. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
And, I love to sing, so it's a pleasure.
Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pisco Sours:
How essential is singing or chanting the Daily Office? The reason I ask is that my voice is so bad I don't even sing in the shower. I just kind of... murmur it to myself so far.
As much as I hate to admit it, singing/chanting isn't necessary at all. If I were spiritually stronger, I could keep my interest in the office alive even if I recited it. But I am worthless and weak, and so need to sing it to keep interested.
I do agree with the others who gave positive spiritual reasons for chanting the office. But in my heart of hearts, I know I just couldn't do it if I didn't sing it.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
Just won a copy of Howard Galley's 1980 Prayer Book Office in near-mint condition on eBay. The only one currently listed on the Abebooks catalogue is selling for around £80 Sterling. I obtained my copy for less than half that price!
Scott, I believe that you heartily recommend this office book. Have you found it useful?
I think it's a pretty hard-to-find book now.
DIVINE OFFICE
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
Just won a copy of Howard Galley's 1980 Prayer Book Office in near-mint condition on eBay. The only one currently listed on the Abebooks catalogue is selling for around £80 Sterling. I obtained my copy for less than half that price!
Scott, I believe that you heartily recommend this office book. Have you found it useful?
I think it's a pretty hard-to-find book now.
Congratulations! Yes, Galley's PBO is a highly regarded and very useful working-out of the BCP 1979 Daily Office texts and rubrics. Wish they'd reprint it. Another excellent one is the new Saint Helena Breviary: Personal Edition.
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leemc
Apprentice
# 11141
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Posted
I'm not sure if this is properly a Daily Office topic, but I recently ordered Andrew Burnham's Pocket Manual of Anglo-Catholic Devotion and I was wondering if any of the folks here are familiar with this resource and what they thought of it. In addition to containing a service for morning and evening prayer, it also appears to have other devotional resources for those of an A-C bent (I recently started attending an A-C parish here in Boston so I thought I should educate myself. )
Posts: 16 | From: Boston, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2006
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Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leemc:
I'm not sure if this is properly a Daily Office topic, but I recently ordered Andrew Burnham's Pocket Manual of Anglo-Catholic Devotion and I was wondering if any of the folks here are familiar with this resource and what they thought of it. In addition to containing a service for morning and evening prayer, it also appears to have other devotional resources for those of an A-C bent (I recently started attending an A-C parish here in Boston so I thought I should educate myself. )
Funnily enough, I was looking at a copy of this at our local SPCK bookshop today, and I was tempted ! ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
It looks extremely comprehensive and user-friendly.
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 563 | From: Roaming the World in my imagination..... | Registered: Jun 2005
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Boadicea Trott
Shipmate
# 9621
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Posted
I did succumb to temptation today whislt browsing bookshops, and bought the big blue hardback version of Celebrating Common Prayer.
I also looked at Common Worship:Daily Prayer, but the CCP seemed much more useful for me, and I liked the layout better.
I particularly liked the CCP "short" offices which can be used for family devotions.
Quite why I *needed* yet another prayer book I haven`t yet been able to fathom
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X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
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John H
Shipmate
# 9599
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
Quite why I *needed* yet another prayer book I haven`t yet been able to fathom
I know the feeling. But you're among friends here. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"If you look upon ham and eggs and lust, you have already committed breakfast in your heart."
Posts: 423 | From: Orpington, Kent, UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
I have a copy of the hardback edition of Andrew Burnham's Manual of Anglo-Catholic Devotion.
It's quite a nice book, with plenty of useful material, including the Rosary and Stations of the Cross and a version of the Roman Morning, Evening and Night Prayer using the CW psalter instead of the Grail psalter and with slightly better translations of the canticles. There are also basic orders of Matins and Evensong based on the BCP offices, as well as an Order of Mass based on the CW rite with various Catholic additions such as the Orate, fratres.
I've only looked through the pocket edition very briefly, but I think it has much the same material, including the Luminous Mysteries of the Rosary, which the hardback edition does not have.
As I said, it's a nice book, but in some ways I prefer the older Manual of Catholic Devotion, the last edition of which was published by the Church Union in 1969, and which can now command a fairly high price, usually around £25.
I got my copy for 50p at a retreat many years ago!
DIVINE OFFICE
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John H:
quote:
Originally posted by Boadicea Trott:
Quite why I *needed* yet another prayer book I haven`t yet been able to fathom
I know the feeling. But you're among friends here.
Prayer books are like chocolates-- you don't need more of them, but they sure are nice to have.
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
An excellent closing sentiment.
It's time this thread went to Limbo as a reference source before it becomes so huge as to be useless (assuming it hasn't already passed that point).
jlg/Ecclesiantics host
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