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» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Purgatory: It's not my fault I'm fat and broke! (Page 3)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: It's not my fault I'm fat and broke!
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by I_am_not_Job:
C'mon, you know the evidence is against you [Biased] . (and calling fit people self-righteous is just protecting yourself with insults whatever the evidence presented - no wry smile with finger wagging smiley available [Biased] ).

Oh and I forgot to add that people who enjoy exercise are self-righteous too, but fortunately it's the sort of thing that doesn't really need pointing out, being obvious when it happens.

Why do you think the whole world is like you? What evidence do you have? Will it matter if a million people come up to you and say, "there is no form of exercise invented that I find enjoyable"? Will you still believe what you want to?

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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Nonpropheteer, you can preach personal responsibility all day long, but it doesn't change the fact that there's got to be something cultural going on when obesity hits epidemic proportions. Yes, whether someone gains weight or loses or stays the same depends on that person's individual choices. But we don't live in a vacuum. Millions and millions of people in the industrialized world are gaining weight at an alarming rate, and it's not because people are overall more stupid and less responsible than they were 30 years ago.

I think the problem is that most of us live in environments to which we are not adapted, and so things that were automatic for millions of years -- getting exercise and eating the most healthy diet available -- no longer work the way they used to. At no other point in human history have so many people needed to choose to get exercise in order to stay healthy instead of just getting that exercise in the normal course of their daily lives. At no other point in human history has there been so much fat and sugar so readily available; people didn't use to have to choose healthy foods -- they ate what was available and were grateful for it. So what we're having to do now is very difficult and not what our bodies and appetites have evolved to do.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Joan_of_Quark

Anchoress of St Expedite
# 9887

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We are not all exactly the same (gasp). Some people do well on one food plan (whether that's eating really healthy without thinking about it, or a really detailed diet sheet) and others on a different balance. The last ten+ years we've had diet wars going on - an endless cycle of lowfat->lowcarb->lowfat->lowcarb....

BTW, Twilight mentioned the discrepancy between some people saying 20 mins of cardio 3 times per week and others advocating 5 or 6 workouts a week. That's probably the difference between what we allegedly need to protect our hearts and the larger amount being seen as what's necessary to drop fat. Even with the 20 times 3, last time I looked in fitness journals there was a long debate going on about whether it had to be 20 minutes continuous or whether you can bank lots of short pieces of activity - I no longer know whether our collective wisdom is currently at TIS or TISNT on that one. Sigh.

If it IS possible to wreck your metabolism by dieting, lots of people doing that will have been reacting to people around them, possibly including medical people, advising them to get on those crash diets.

Is it me, or is there a fair amount of conflating the "problems" of fat, healthy eating and exercise on this thread? e.g. as far as we can be certain, everyone needs to be fit to protect their heart, yet everywhere I go I hear people talking about exercise almost entirely in terms of how to lose weight. It's only a minority of people who do this magical amount of exercise, and that includes the skinnier people.

A few false moves - whether it's crying into a box of chocolates after a bereavement, or getting into debt when you lose your job - and you can easily end up with a nasty tangle of compounded problems. I think it's a both/and situation - possibly people need to get together to make their areas safer for cycling/kids to play outside, set up food co-ops to get cheap healthy veg to "food deserts", fight back against the ads and the convenience with real knowledge, set up credit unions, etc etc.
(Sorry this got long, must go ride bike...)

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"I want to be an artist when I grow up." "Well you can't do both!"
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Posts: 1025 | From: The Book Depository | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881

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quote:
Originally posted by I_am_not_Job:
Just cos you've had some bad experiences in the past doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. How many times do I have to say in my posts I was crap at sport as a kid and hated it, but I've learnt to enjoy being fit and healthy - v different.

You're right, it's not the same for everyone. I've never, ever experienced any mood-elevating effect from exercise. Personally, I think it may have something to do with the chemistry of depression, because I don't recall any of my depressed friends ever mentioning the experience either. (Not saying any of my fellow Shipmates necessarily feel as I do for the same reason.) I had a doctor - of course she was a runner - who suggested training for a marathon would help my depression. Ever seen someone running and crying at the same time? I ran myself down to 95 pounds and a size 4. After a couple of years of that crap, I went to another doctor - not a runner but a golfer and sailor - and got real, effective help. From my experience, the exercise psycho-pep talk belongs in the same bin as "snap out of it" and "just think cheerful thoughts."

quote:
If I said driving gives you a feeling of freedom, you might not agree with me even after your first 3 or 4 lessons.
Honestly, if I heard anyone say driving gives you a feeling of freedom, I'd say they'd been watching too many car commercials. I've been driving for over thirty years and I still hate it. However, it is a useful skill that makes it possible to do lots of other things. But you said, "Exercise is about a way of life." Would you say, "Driving is about a way of life"?

Yes, people living a modern, sedentary lifestyle probably should make an effort to be more physically active. I_am_not_Job, I think you could be much more persuasive if you kept in mind that for many of us (most?), "exercise" is a means, not an end. And there's a couple of threads in Heaven that are ready for any other suggestions you might have. Cheers, OliviaG

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Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
dosey
Shipmate
# 10259

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

I think the problem is that most of us live in environments to which we are not adapted, and so things that were automatic for millions of years -- getting exercise and eating the most healthy diet available -- no longer work the way they used to. At no other point in human history have so many people needed to choose to get exercise in order to stay healthy instead of just getting that exercise in the normal course of their daily lives. At no other point in human history has there been so much fat and sugar so readily available; people didn't use to have to choose healthy foods -- they ate what was available and were grateful for it. So what we're having to do now is very difficult and not what our bodies and appetites have evolved to do.

I think our bodies have always evolved to do this. A high metabolism puts more oxadative stress on the system, simply the more exercise you do the quicker you die. As we have become more sedentary our bodies have reacted by reducing muscle mass and replacing it with fat . [Frown] (btw this reduces metabolism)

Or bodies still love fat and sugar though, (useful for that occasional famine) so salt sugar, and fat are all hedonistic.

So, no really its no one's fault they're fat as it is what evolution has got us to do. Though on that note we are designed to enjoy exercise (having a high muscle density always helps when escaping that T-rex [Big Grin] ). So really people who don't enjoy exercise I believe its more to do with thier mindset than NOt being able to enjoy it. some people love the competitive aspect that where they get thier 'high' from.

Posts: 72 | From: UK | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
muchafraid
Shipmate
# 10738

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I'm not following, dosey.

You say that we are "designed to enjoy exercise," but some people don't exercise because they don't enjoy it. Then you say it's more of a "mindset" thing than not enjoying it. That's sort of confusing.

And isn't enjoyment, by definition, a mindset?

I'm not sure if we were designed to necessarily enjoy exercise. Sure, when we play and run and get our heart rate up, endorphins are released which make us feel good. Hopefully, the "rush" we feel will make us want to continue that behavior. Therefore, I think the enjoyment factor is secondary.

What came first, the chicken or the egg? In this case, I believe it was the chicken (exercise).

Also, since when does exercise cause us to die more quickly? I've never heard that before...

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all the glory when he took our place
but he took my shoulders, and he shook my face,
and he takes and he takes and he takes...sufjan stevens

Posts: 256 | From: baltimore, md | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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quote:
Originally posted by Rat:
quote:
Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
I don't buy it, Rat. The most profitable loan surely comes from lending X amount over X years at X interest, and getting it paid back as contracted.

The minute it falls into arrears, someone needs to be paid to chase the debt.

Ah, but at that point the bank sells the debt on to another company. So they don't pay out, they make some money on the deal, on top of the interest and penalties they've already pulled in. And the fact that debt retrieval companies are willing to buy up bad debts would suggest that there's at least some money to be made there too.

I can't really argue the point very well, I don't know enough about it. [Smile] Banks must like good payers too, or those of us who're not on the edge of bankruptcy wouldn't be able to get loans and mortgages. But by the same logic, there must be profit to be made from dodgy credit risks, or the cable TV channels wouldn't be loaded down with adverts by companies offering consolidation loans to the indebted. Many of them say outright that they'll lend to people who already have bad credit ratings or county-court judgements against them for bad debt.

Bad debts that are sold, are sold for a fraction of the outstanding balance. It's a risk for the purchaser, but one they are prepared to take. Banks really aren't responsible for what they do.

The lenders who advertise to the "bad credit rating" customer do bother me. BUT they aren't banks. At least not here in Australia. They are non-bank lenders and I think they are a real concern.

Posted by The Great Gumby

quote:
Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
I don't buy it, Rat. The most profitable loan surely comes from lending X amount over X years at X interest, and getting it paid back as contracted.


Depends what charges you make for missed or late payments. Let's say I lend you £1,000 to be paid back in 10 monthly payments of £105. That'll net me a profit of £50 in 10 months. But suppose you're struggling to pay it off, and one month (say month 6) you can't make your payment. I, as your bank manager, charge you, say, £20 for the missed payment, and charge interest to your outstanding debt to cover the missed payment, which could be at a punitive rate of interest, but for the sake of argument I'll be generous and call it another £4 for each remaining month, so £20 in total. I get my money back in 11 months instead of 10, but I make £90 profit instead of £50.

I've not done anything in that example that would be unusual, in fact I've been fairly generous in some of my charges compared with some real-life examples, but I've substantially increased my profit for very little effort on my part. There's no need to "chase" debt at this sort of level, because provision for these charges will be built into the loan agreement - generally, you can just send a new statement and ask the borrower to call you to discuss the missed payment. Word the letter in sufficiently threatening terms and they'll be desperate to talk to you.


In charging any fee for late payments, you still need to be repaid ultimately. If your customer goes bankrupt, you can charge all you like, but you almost certainly won't get paid.

If the borrower couldn't service the debt in the first place then, at least here in Australia, s/he could bring a claim with the relevant dispute resolution body (all banks have to belong to such a scheme) or to the relevant tribunal. If the claim was substantiated, the customer pay back the debt with no interest and no fees. So no profit for the bank.

Non-bank lenders might not be subject to such stringent rules (although the Consumer Credit Code would certainly impose that sort of standard on them).

I'd have thought the UK has a similar system, though I could be wrong.

[ 05. July 2006, 09:11: Message edited by: Callan ]

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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Did anyone else see "Tax the Fat" last night ( UK TV )? Boy did that annoy me. Somebody rather simplistically suggesting that those who are clinically obese should be taxed, to pay for their medical care.

Sadly, they did show some "Its Not My Fault" fatties. Including a chap who has slimmed down to 45 Stone. But he missed the complexity of issues that drive obesity. Yes, people should get more exercise, and improve their diet. If you have the time and resources to do this then all well and good, but the one factor that he didn't consider was the time taken to eat healthily ( for a working family ). And he didn't address the psychology of why people overeat.

His proposal to simply tax people was, IMO, mindlessly stupid, and ignoring the real issues about why people are becoming fatter.

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Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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Well, as Ruth said, it makes little or no sense to say it is purely the individual when actually the problem is increasing in just about every community in just about first world, capitalist country under the sun.

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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373

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quote:
Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
In charging any fee for late payments, you still need to be repaid ultimately. If your customer goes bankrupt, you can charge all you like, but you almost certainly won't get paid.

You are right, of course. But most people who get into money trouble don't go bankrupt, that's the last resort. Most people who finally get sensible advice will be encouraged to come to some manageable repayment agreement with their creditors (the UK Citzen's Advice Bureau will help negotiate this and creditors normally agree to small but regular payments). So the creditor will eventually get paid, the borrower will eventually get debt free, but a loan that should have taken 2 years to repay may take 8 years. This is hugely profitable to the lender.

Another thing I know often happens (from friends who've had debt trouble) is that people get into the habit of paying their various creditors turn about. Pay this credit card this month, the mortgage next month, they can't pay everyone so whoever is screaming loudest gets the available money. Despite the nasty letters, lenders will let you do this almost indefinitely as long as they continue to get some payments... the interest and penalties pile up but do eventually get paid.

The lenders can afford to write off the small number of borrowers who actually go bankrupt, because they make so much from the majority who struggle, get in arrears, but eventually repay.

I think (but may be wrong) that the conservative government in the '80s removed pretty much all regulation on the behaviour of lenders here - the market is pretty much a free-for-all.

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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Papio:
Well, as Ruth said, it makes little or no sense to say it is purely the individual when actually the problem is increasing in just about every community in just about first world, capitalist country under the sun.

And she's spot on about the evolutionary aspect as well. We evolved in an environment where sugar and fat were quite hard to get hold of. So we evolved to like it, to get as much of it as we could whenever we could. That makes it extremely difficult to break a sweet tooth or a taste for the frying pan.

We also evolved the ability to hold on to the fat we'd managed to lay down, and to replenish it as soon as possible.

I do remember a programme on the box recently where it had been found that basal metabolic rates don't actually vary much between people, regardless of their weight. They also didn't find that the majority of overweight people ate more either. What they found was that skinnies fidget more. Honest. When sitting down they'd be tapping their feet, drumming their fingers, shifting position. Those prone to obesity were far stiller. And that seemed to make a lot of the difference. I'll try to find some of the evidence for this from somewhere. It fits in with the tendancy towards middle-age spread - as we age, we tend towards less fidgeting and more sitting still. Gives us varicose veins as well, but I digress.

None of this doesn't mean I'm not open to suggestions. However:

1) competitive sport of any kind is out, as whilst not actually dyspraxic I'm way, way, way at the bottom of the hand eye coordination curve, as anyone who's ever seen how fast I get through crockery can testify. People hate playing sports with me because it's too easy.

2) I can't run. I have small lungs, and I get out of breath after a quarter of a mile and get a stitch soon before or after this; despite the lies told by PE teachers this cannot be "run off" and I have to stop before I collapse from the pain and anoxia.

3) Gym membership is prohibitively expensive.

Suggestions on a postcard, please.

[ 05. July 2006, 09:16: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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quote:
Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
In charging any fee for late payments, you still need to be repaid ultimately. If your customer goes bankrupt, you can charge all you like, but you almost certainly won't get paid.

Exactly, which is why the less scrupulous lenders try to walk the tightrope and pick up the people who will struggle to pay, but manage it in the end. It usually takes an awful lot of debt to drive someone to bankruptcy, and no one wants to be declared bankrupt, so once a loan is taken out, both the lender and the borrower have the same aim of making sure Mr B doesn't go bankrupt. The borrower's usually got far more to lose from bankruptcy, which is why the lender can get so much out of it.

People get into stupid amounts of debt not by taking out enormous loans they'll never pay back, but by taking out small loans, which they struggle with, then slightly larger ones to cover that, struggle a bit more, and so on. A cynical lender will count on that. If a borrower starts to really struggle, and looks at any stage like going under, you arrange an appointment to consolidate the outstanding debt into a form they might be able to manage, or put enough pressure on them that they consolidate it themselves with an even bigger loan from someone else. It's probably not a good move from their point of view, and it only delays the inevitable, but the lender gets paid off and the problem of bad debt becomes someone else's problem.

[ETA: And what Rat said]

[ 05. July 2006, 09:26: Message edited by: The Great Gumby ]

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992

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I must admit I read the thread title and thought, "Serious discussion or crie de coeur?" But then I remembered Father's svelte figure and decided it must be a discussion. ( [Biased] )

It reminds me of a story I heard from a former colleague. He'd been working with a family who were deeply in debt. Somehow or other (don't know how, because this sounds highly irregular) he'd arranged that next time there was money coming their way, he'd pick up the cheque, take it to them, get it cashed with them and sit there while they used it to pay off some of their debts.

The day came, and my colleague went to pick up the cheque, only to be told that it had, in error, been sent out the previous day. He raced around to the house, to find the family....

.... watching their brand new television.

Yes, you can go on till the cows come home about "poor poor people". But there's just no helping some folk.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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Well, I have to say that the banking system in other places sounds like a bit of a worry. Working in an area that sorts out banking problems on a daily basis, (and, NO, I do not work for any bank and there's probably more than one that dislikes me intensely), I am not convinced in the slightest of any conspiracy to draw in the near-bankrupt in Australia.


We have a system of negative credit reporting and, so far as I have seen (after years of doing what I do) no bank will touch anyone with a negative credit listing.

I see negligent lending. I tell banks that they have to write off lots and lots of dollars in debt. But I've never seen any policy to do so or to woo bad debtors.

Makes me sort of glad that I live here.

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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

1) competitive sport of any kind is out, as whilst not actually dyspraxic I'm way, way, way at the bottom of the hand eye coordination curve, as anyone who's ever seen how fast I get through crockery can testify. People hate playing sports with me because it's too easy.

See, this is where I have difficulty with people who blythly claim that sport builds self esteem, or that the 'competitive aspect' is enjoyable. Sure, that might be so if you can aspire to some basic level of competence! For a naturally competitive person, continually losing is not fun.

I have the agility and co-ordination of a mossy rock. Catching or hitting flying objects is a near impossibility. Swimming, which I try to do out of duty once a week, is mainly an exercise in concentration, otherwise I get mixed up and breath while my head is underwater. And I fall over or run into things, a lot. Fast things like running or squash nearly always result in me getting my feet mixed up, falling over, and getting hurt, or clattering into a wall and getting hurt. And you should have seen me on the treadmill at the gym - anything above a brisk walk is an accident waiting to happen.

For example, with friends I once played badminton weekly for 2 years. In that time I never won a game (getting a single point was a memorable occasion) and regularly hurt myself. People quite naturally didn't want to play me, though they'd never have said so - it was boring and embarassing. I dropped out of the game when shortage of courts meant that we started having to play doubles every week. These people were friends and we were far past the age of sports related cruelty, but it's still humiliating to realise that people are quietly and politely manouvering to avoid having you as a partner.

So I'm supposed to enjoy activities that I'm naturally bad at (and, no, practise doesn't help) and where I regularly get hurt. And continually coming last is supposed to raise my self esteem! I must be the wrong sort of masochist.

And I've been thinking about the cycling thing... What I enjoy about cycling is that I get to see beautiful places I wouldn't otherwise, see the wildlife and countryside changing without scaring off the squirrels, and ocassionally I get to go 'whee' downhill really fast. The actual exercise part is the usual unrewarding slog, but there are enough ancillary benefits (squirrels and whee) to make it worthwhile. I'm still crap at it, though.

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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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I enjoy some forms of competition but not others.

And i agree that sporty types are often too quick to assume that we must be like them, really...

Not that us non-sporty types ever do the same thing, eh? [Biased]

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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Papio:
Not that us non-sporty types ever do the same thing, eh? [Biased]

No, we know from painful experience how much unlike us the sporty types are.

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Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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Yes, in a great many ways.

Still doesn't everyone to some extent have a tendancy to assume that others agree with them and know what they mean? I'm not saying that you, or I, totally fal for that or that we always fall for it to any extent - just that I think someone who has never fallen for it to any extent or at any time is a pretty unusual individual.

The sporty chavs were the ones that beat me up at school, though. i confess that are still not my favourite people.

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Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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Rat puts it rather well. I don't think many sporty types can actually imagine what it's like to know that no matter how much you practice, you will rarely be able to hit a tennis ball served to you, and even more rarely actually get it into the opponent's court. Scoring a point? You must be joking.

I spent days trying to learn to serve. I could get it into the right square on the other side about 50% of the time. But only if I hit it really, really slowly.

Self esteem? Went walkies long ago as far as anything involving co-ordination is concerned.

I found people neither wanted to partner me (guaranteed to lose) or play against me in singles (just boring; they would ace every ball when it was their serve, and I would usually double fault on my serve, or serve it so weekly they just smashed it straight past me). Where's the gain in that?

And that's just one sport. The others were the same though. Rugby scrums went round and round in circles if I was in them. I couldn't catch other people to tackle them. Cricket? Usually caught and bowled first or second ball. Couldn't catch, and couldn't throw far enough to field on the boundary. Bowling? Every ball a no-ball or a wide, or both. Football? Scored one goal in all my years at school.

So if I and people like me are somewhat dismissive of this whole physical excercise business, there's a bloody good reason.

[ 05. July 2006, 13:56: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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It's official then.
I filled in a survey last week that asked questions about my health. No danger signs there.

By the end discovered that I must be dreafully unfit as I :
* haven't joined a gym,
* do not visit a gym,
* do not participate in organised sprting activities,
* do not go jogging,
* do not take part in regular fitness regieme at home,
* do not walk/ cycle to work,
* do not eat brown rice and pasta.....
.....etc!

Came away feeling out of sorts with the world. So bought a chocolate bar out of Total Spite.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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I'd go for the brown rice if it didn't take all day to eat. I don't think it improves health of itself; it's just you spend so long trying to eat the brown rice that you don't have time to eat anything unhealthy.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nonpropheteer
6 Syllable Master
# 5053

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quote:
Originally posted by Papio:
Well, as Ruth said, it makes little or no sense to say it is purely the individual when actually the problem is increasing in just about every community in just about first world, capitalist country under the sun.

Producers don't sell us candy because they want to sell it, rather because they know we want it. First world countries are fat because there are far too many sedintary activities that the populace does for enjoyment. Our social circles are as likely to be url as irl. We have more access to more fattening food and less desire or need to exercise.
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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brown rice costs more, takes forever to cook and looks manky.

However it would be very good for me................

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Here's another complete and total klutz who actually got put in remedial Phys ed (how embarrassing is that?). I couldn't even play ping pong till I was 25. No hand-eye coordination whatsoever, and very loose limbs (to the point of dislocation often). Also one leg not straight (knee points in) with all the expected results when it comes to running, biking, etc. About the only sport I'm good at is swimming, and I think that's because being boneless, lumpy and blind is an asset there.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
# 619

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I too used to drive tennis coaches to tears by watching a slowly travelling ball come towards me, pass me and then swing my racquet. If hand/eye coordination bad, then balance even worse.

But show me the sporty type who can knit with 20+ yarns simultaneously, or half a dozen elements of a meal together perfectly while simultaneously swigging a glass of wine.

[ 05. July 2006, 15:28: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
magdalenegospel
Shipmate
# 11619

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The thing, sports wise, that got me into it was adult trampolining. I was incredibly unco-ordinated for the first year, but had made friends, and stuck at it.

I learnt to dive as well, and between the two, found that I could enjoy sports. Trampolining, for some reason, alleviates dyslexia, and helps with co-ordination. I don't understand it, but I have 4 friends who'd testify to it.

As for being fat and being in debt, http://www.flylady.net saved my bacon. Both being fat and having poor financial skills seem to boil down to a lack of routine on my part, and since I moved a couple of weeks ago, which enabled me to have a solid routine, I've already lost half a stone without trying. There's an interesting programme on R4 (All in the Mind) that had something on Routine, and how it affects people in their ability to lose weight.

It's efficient to have a habit, but habits aren't necessarily efficient in themselves and need to be refined. My experience was that I cut out sugar, but dairy consumption crept up over a year.
Just as a good prayer routine is something that is developed and refined (not necessarily added to) same with diet and exercise.

Then again, that's my experience, and I know that for some people it's not been about routine (eatin regularly) but about having a variety of food, freshly cooked.

I would argue that sport for the sake of sport's a waste of time. Sport to make friends, sport to get somewhere - great. Going to the gym because you've got buddies there - fine.
Going just because you feel you ought to go isn't good for you.

As far as losing weight and fitness is concerned, Yoga helped enormously, because it made me aware of what I was hungry for, and helped my body work more efficiently, although at face value it's not a CV workout.

And cycling in London is fun. I did it regularly for years, till some **** nabbed my bike.

Posts: 75 | From: London | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by magdalenegospel:
The thing, sports wise, that got me into it was adult trampolining. I was incredibly unco-ordinated for the first year, but had made friends, and stuck at it.

When I was at school, I was one of those who were always chosen last to be on a team, uncoordinated overweight geek that I was. I would rather sit on the bleachers during gym class, feigning a stiff neck or an irritable bowel, than be the laughingstock of the jocks.

But then one day they brought in a trampoline. Something new, different, fascinating. I loved it! Bouncing up and down on that thing, moving around, changing direction, etc. seemed so incredibly easy -- and fun! I had finally found something to make gym class worthwhile for me.

But all the jocks hated it, and after that one day we never saw the trampoline again!

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Papio

Ship's baboon
# 4201

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Karl, what sporty types need to imagine is not how we feel when ask to tackle a football off Jonny Goodatsports, but how they would feel if asked to sing in front of their entire office, or appear on Mastermind or engage in some activety they find difficult or impossible in front of people who find it easy.

That should solve the difficulty they have in understanding what we are saying.

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Infinite Penguins.
My "Readit, Swapit" page
My "LibraryThing" page

Posts: 12176 | From: a zoo in England. | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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Papio, you have it.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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When I found out that the diet/gym companies use "natural athletic types" that had been in the hospital or for some other reason had been off their game and got fat, took pictures of them for the "before" shot, and then let them do what they loved to do naturally which is to say EXERCISE LIKE HELL until they looked all buff and trim then took the "After" shot, I knew that society was completely fucked in the head with regards to weight. Oh and of course they make them sign non-disclosure agreements so they don't admit this.

Which is not to say we shouldn't eat better and/or exercise. I am a happy athletic lazyass that had to make the conversion to a gym and stick with it lately. I am trying to eat better too. But will I ever be able to look like a muscle bound hard body? No.

Some of us have bodies that will be pear shaped. Some of us will have bodies that are apple shaped. And some of us will look like Mr./Ms. Olympia. The latter shitheads should thank the gods and keep their fucking opinions to themselves about how the rest of us should look.

And fashion magazines? God spare us from women and men that expect models to look like boys and crack whores. I'd like to force feed the fucking models until fashion magazines have nothing but Size 10 to choose from. Especially Kate "Crack Whore" Moss. [Projectile]

P.S. Fashionfuckinistas, more C or D-cups please, thanksbunches.

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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A few comments:

--There are many reasons for being overweight, and they're not always under an individual's control.

--I've heard on the news many times that the most frequent reason for bankruptcy here in the US is healthcare bills. We don't have national insurance, many people have no insurance at all, and those who do have it may not be able to afford the co-pays. Plus the bankruptcy laws have recently been tightened, so it's harder to discharge your debt...even if you have excellent reasons for doing so.

Here's a Reader's Digest view of my situation: I pushed myself to work for many years, despite health problems. It was very important to me to be self-supporting. The job market was leaning towards temporary employment at the time, so I had a series of temp jobs (some as long as several years), with no insurance. I saved up money, but repeatedly had to use it for medical expenses. When I finally got private insurance, it was much more expensive than an employer's policy would've been--and. of course, the price went up frequently over the years.

I'd avoided credit cards like the plague. But, having gone through periods of unemployment due to the job market and dealing with worsening health, I finally decided I needed a safety net. So I got credit cards.

I got on disability, but there were waiting periods, etc., and I had to pay for both basic survival things and medical co-pays, deductibles, and such. My private insurance was nearly $600/mo. at one point. They wouldn't let me apply for a lower cost plan; and, with my health problems, I probably wouldn't have been accepted elsewhere. FINALLY, they put me on a lower cost plan, with a higher deductible.

In the last several years, I've run up megadebt for basic stuff. I might well have been out on the street otherwise--or unable to get my many assorted medications, and too sick to take care of myself at all. I've got some other medical benefits now...but I'm caught in a mess where if one benefit increases slightly, they'll decrease another one greatly. I've recently gone from 0 share of cost for one program to several hundred dollars a month. Legal folks are looking into it; but the reality is that many people are in my position, and the system doesn't care.

I've spoken with a credit counselor. He was shocked by my situation, didn't think bankruptcy would work for me, and suggested trying to negotiate a temporary lowering of fees with the credit card companies.

This is just to illustrate that a person can be dedicated to being self-supporting, to paying off bills, etc.--but it may not work out. [Tear]


--Re exercise: I'm another one for whom it's hard. I'm in bed most of the time, due to health problems.

For those asking about alternatives, you might check out t'ai chi, chi gong, and gentle forms of yoga. (Like the book "Gentle Yoga", written for folks who need adapted techniques.)

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
When I found out that the diet/gym companies use "natural athletic types" that had been in the hospital or for some other reason had been off their game and got fat, took pictures of them for the "before" shot, and then let them do what they loved to do naturally which is to say EXERCISE LIKE HELL until they looked all buff and trim then took the "After" shot, I knew that society was completely fucked in the head with regards to weight. Oh and of course they make them sign non-disclosure agreements so they don't admit this.

Which is not to say we shouldn't eat better and/or exercise. I am a happy athletic lazyass that had to make the conversion to a gym and stick with it lately. I am trying to eat better too. But will I ever be able to look like a muscle bound hard body? No.

Some of us have bodies that will be pear shaped. Some of us will have bodies that are apple shaped. And some of us will look like Mr./Ms. Olympia. The latter shitheads should thank the gods and keep their fucking opinions to themselves about how the rest of us should look.

And fashion magazines? God spare us from women and men that expect models to look like boys and crack whores. I'd like to force feed the fucking models until fashion magazines have nothing but Size 10 to choose from. Especially Kate "Crack Whore" Moss. [Projectile]

P.S. Fashionfuckinistas, more C or D-cups please, thanksbunches.

Try size 4. I recently saw a diet pill ad where the gleeful testimonial was of a size 10 lady rejoicing that she ahd dropped to a size 4.

(oh and the "before-and--after" setup you describe also helps the testimonials say truthfully, "and I didn't change my diet or excercise habits at all!"

My theory is that the garment industry wants to cut costs on fabric, so they are enlisting the diet industry's help.

In any case-- I was put on a steroid inhaler for asthma a few years back, and on steriod treatment for acne much more recently. They had a devastating effect on both my appetite and my metabolism.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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I just watched "The devil wears Prada" this last weekend. People think that the asshole boss Miranda is the worst part. Oh no, hearing the Size 4's calling a Size 6 fat about drove me to kill.

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534

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I was by far the last to get picked for teams, and my gym teacher brought my mother in for a meeting especially to tell her that I couldn't run fast, was clumsy, and got out of breath quickly.

I remained an extreme klutz until my early twenties, when, I believe, a combination of preternaturally ideal teaching, and brain maturity, improved matters somewhat.

Of course, I was also in a situation of having long been accustomed to humiliation on a daily basis, and to a severe lack of lifeskills that others took for granted. It wasn't like I could avoid humiliation by staying out of dance class, you see, so I might as well go, and accept whatever humiliation came my way. Nor did I expect to be good at it, in contrast to some others who seemed mortified that they didn't already know how to do the thing they'd come to class to learn to do. So you could say that there were others who didn't have the advantages I'd had.

Anyway, if it hadn't turned out that I improved my skills in an unexpected area, I would have followed my plan to go power walking and running and doing toning exercises at home. That's what I did after dance classes became logistically unfeasible. I knew I could walk, and I knew I could run for at least part of the time. I also didn't particularly expect to enjoy it, I just knew it was one of those things I had to do. If ball games, or public gymnasiums, or teamwork, or co-ordination, are sources of failure and embarrassment, it is usually possible to find some kind of exercise that avoids those things.

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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.

Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Janine

The Endless Simmer
# 3337

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quote:
Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
brown rice costs more, takes forever to cook and looks manky.

However it would be very good for me................

Yes it does cost a little more -- but not much, and less than the "special" white rices.

It doesn't seem to take any more time to cook if you get a rice cooker, an electric steamer.

You can put in the rice and springwater, distilled, tap -- or even other liquids -- fat-free spicy chicken broth -- coconut milk -- whatever you like, according to directions --

Then leave it there on the countertop and wander off to do what else you have to do -- it's not you hanging over the stove cooking it.

And it wouldn't look "manky" if we were not spoiled, having been exposed to one basic type of washed-out hulled blah write rice all our lives.

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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *

Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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Yes, but it tastes manky too. [Big Grin]

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
# 5557

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Many people on this thread have mentioned that cheap foods tend to be unhealthy and healthy foods tend to be expensive. Something I was surprised no one mentioned is that it's not just a matter of whether a food contains sugar and fat - it's what kind of sugar and fat.

We're all starting to hear about trans-fats & hydrogenated oils, which are particularly bad. Many diet products (I shouldn't name brands, right?) like the shakes or energy bars contain hydrogenated fats, yet are marketed as healthy! Hydrogenated fats are cheaper because of their water content, but they're being linked to all kinds of health problems.

Another ingredient that's problematic is high-fructose corn syrup. This is a modified sweetener that's much worse than plain old fashioned sugar. Food manufacturers switched to it to save money, so even manufactured foods that once were bad because of sugar content are now even worse because of HFCS. Examples are non-diet sodas, fruit juices (that aren't 100% juice), jams and jellies (that aren't 100% "spreadable fruit"), and so forth. Pancake syrup is another example. You can buy a 32-oz. bottle of pancake syrup around here for about $3.50 or less. But it's high fructose corn syrup with some maple flavoring. To buy pure maple syrup, which is healthier, costs over $10 for half the amount. High fructose corn syrup is now thought to actually cause type 2 diabetes, and lead to greater obesity than other sweeteners. (google it for the research.) But in the past, the same foods didn't contain these cheaper, modified ingredients. So unhealthy foods were still healthier than they are now, and eating them wouldn't make you as fat.

So that's one more example of how food manufacturers do bear some of the blame - they're using ingredients that are really bad for our health because they're cheap and don't cut into the profits as much as more natural, healthier ingredients. To get foods with the healthier ingredients, you have to spend a lot more money, and in many cases, go to a special health food store.

Anyone who's ever lived in an area that's predominately low-income knows that it's next to impossible to get healthier foods in those areas, especially if, as some have mentioned earlier, you don't have a car.

And people often don't have the information they need. Food manufacturers aren't going to volunteer information about how unhealthy their foods are. In the case of trans fats, there was enough of a public demand for foods that don't contain it, that many foods added that information to their labels. Maybe we all need to start pressuring the food manufacturers directly and let them know that we're reading their labels and avoiding certain products.

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
# 5557

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Sorry for the double-post, but this is pertaining to a different aspect of this multi-stranded thread.

Just to chime in with others...

I always weighed about 115 pounds from the age of 14 to the age of 28. Then I started taking an antidepressant and mood stabilizer. Turns out I was skinny because my lack of interest in food and tendency to starve myself was a symptom of the depression. The pills put on weight, plus getting rid of the depression that made me starve myself got me eating more, and also turning 30 probably involved a metabolism change as it normally does. Plus I had a desk job (although I had for several years before without gaining weight).

My exercise habits (ie, none) didn't change, but I gained 60 pounds in the first 6 years. I'm 34 now and weigh 180! I have to admit, I was underweight to start with. I also think it's more about how you look and feel than the numbers on the scale. I look fatter than I'd like to, and I don't have a lot of energy, but then again, I never did. I had a higher metabolism, plus the regular cycles of hypomania, but I never had much stamina.

I tried going to a gym and found it prohibitively boring. I mostly did the weights to try to build muscle, and then took walks around my neighborhood for cardio exercise, since that's so much more interesting than those stationary machines. I would also take stairs instead of elevators, but it never got any easier.

A year ago (this coming Saturday!) I moved out here to CA to go to school, and I was really excited to not have to bring a car with me. I immediately started walking more, only taking the bus for long distances or when I needed to get somewhere quickly. Instead of losing weight, or increasing my metabolism, or increasing my energy levels, or anything nice like that, all I did was develop plantar fasciitis. I'm trying not to let that get in the way of my walking, but it does.

I'm a student now, and work on weekends, at a job that has me active & on my feet. Also, I have a lot of hill-climbing. The hill climbing still hasn't gotten any easier, but I do get the endorphin high - also the aches and sweat and occasional asthma attack... But no weight loss yet!

I think what RuthW said above is dead on - that we evolved for certain conditions and a certain lifestyle (allowing of course that there is a lot of variation in people depending on their ethnic and family backgrounds) and we are now in a completely different situation. I think we should try our best, but not allow ourselves to be beat up for our failures. Also, I think people should seek first to be helpful, and never judgmental, of others.

Here's an example: I had a roommate in college who had perfect skin. She believed it was due completely to her regimen: once a day she cleaned her face with rubbing alcohol. That was it. No other cleansing, moisturizers, anything. As someone (I don't remember who!) above noted, people often credit themselves with good health when it actually comes naturally to them. As someone else wisely noted above, it's not to your credit to resist what doesn't tempt you! And it doesn't help, either, to make everything a moral issue. In earlier centuries, and even in my lifetime in certain religious circles, my bipolar illness used to be a moral issue - the depression would be some kind of demonic oppression that I was giving in to, and the hypomanic symptoms (losing my temper, swearing, being irritable and short with people, etc.) were obvious moral failings. My only response to that is that without any effort on my part, once I started taking a few pills for it, all of those moral flaws of mine disappeared completely! But if I go off my pills, they come back. What moral failings do we see in others that in a future century they'll have pills for, I wonder? [Biased]

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
You can buy a 32-oz. bottle of pancake syrup around here for about $3.50 or less. But it's high fructose corn syrup with some maple flavoring. To buy pure maple syrup, which is healthier, costs over $10 for half the amount.

OK, important things first. You're in California, dude -- buy your real maple syrup at Trader Joe's, not the supermarket. It'll be a lot less expensive.

I'm totally with you on the hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup. When my co-worker used to try to feed me Entenmann's pastries, I would chant, "Hydrogenated soybean oil! High fructose corn syrup!" She doesn't do that anymore, though; she's been diagnosed with diabetes.

Americans: next time you're at the grocery store, see if you can buy a loaf of bread with no hydrogenated oil and no high fructose corn syrup. After examining every single loaf on the shelves at my local Ralph's a few years ago, I bought a machine and started making my own bread.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

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Y';know Janine..you are right.
I just don't like it.

And therein lies the rub.

I don't actually Want to change. Enough to do it.

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
CrookedCucumber
Shipmate
# 10792

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Suggestions on a postcard, please.

I'm not a `sporty' person, by any means. I hated sport passionately until I discovered karate at the age of about 14. 30-odd years later I'm still hooked. Of course, being the kind of person I am, I've probably only acquired the same skills in my 30 years of training that a natural athlete would get in a year or two.

My inability to make progress at the same rate as the sporty folks bothered me when I was a kid, but it doesn't bother me these days. We are all as nature made us, after all. I don't beat myself up about it -- why should I: it's more fun to beat the other guy up [Biased]

From a fitness-increase-per-hour perspective, I don't find martial arts as effective as running. But I despise running, so martial arts works out better for me in the long run.

In short: try karate or some other martial art. This kind of training in nothing like football, or running, or the other stuff we learned to hate at school.

Some other random thoughts:

1. People are different. I can remain reasonably fit and not too fat by careful eating and regular exercise. But some people can't. It's wrong to harangue these folks.

2. Way, way back in my days as a research cardiologist, I saw a surprisingly large number of sick hearts belonging to very fit people. These people usually turned out to be very dedicated athletes. But the type and intensity of exercise that an `ordinary' person with a day-job is likely to perform is unlikely to have significant long-term health dis-benefits.

3. It's true that people whose non-exercise energy needs are higher tend to be more `fidgety' than people with lower energy needs. But, from a bimechanical perspective, the fidgetiness itself is not enough to account for the discrepancy. More likely the fidgetiness is a consequence of the higher metabolic rate, not a cause.

Posts: 2718 | From: East Dogpatch | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

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I must find the research base this programme was based on. It did find that the overweight people did not have a lower metabolic rate than the skinnies, despite the received wisdom.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Keren-Happuch

Ship's Eyeshadow
# 9818

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I saw an article in a magazine about ways to increase your exercise without noticing it - things like taking the stairs rather than the lift, but also opening doors rather than walking through automatic ones, doing the washing up by hand rather than in a dishwasher etc. It also mentioned that fidgeting was a good way to burn calories. Unfortunately I'm already a fidget and we don't have a dishwasher, so it doesn't help much!

Someone asked why people keep eating when they're already full. When I was an angsty teenager I used to comfort eat a lot. You know that it'll make you fat, you know you feel bloated and uncomfortable but you keep doing it anyway. I used to scour the cupboards for something to eat thinking, "oh well, may as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb". Trouble is, even though that's not a problem any more, it's still hard to shift the weight that resulted from it.

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Nea Fox

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CrookedCucumber
Shipmate
# 10792

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I must find the research base this programme was based on. It did find that the overweight people did not have a lower metabolic rate than the skinnies, despite the received wisdom.

We have to be a bit careful with concepts like metabolic rate. Unless you're talking about basal MR -- which is really a notional concept anyway -- there are too many variables in people's habits to make person-to-person comparison meaningful.

Basal MR is, in theory, comparable between individuals but, as I said, it corresponds to a state that few people (at least, few healthy people) ever encounter -- unconscious and starved.

Now it's certainly true that if I somehow put on two stones in weight, my basal MR would increase, not decrease. This is uncontroversial. What is controversial is whether person-to-person variation in basal MR is connected with a tendency to obesity or not.

The reason it is controversial is that it's very difficult to study properly in humans. It is easy enough to study people who are obese; but this is unhelpful because, as I've said, an obese person will have a higher basal MR than the same person would have if he were thin. The trick is to find a bunch of people of the same height, body composition, weight, and gender, who are not obese, and make them live identical lives, including identical food consumption. Then see who gets fat and who doesn't. This has been done in animals, with variable results; and there is the added complication of figuring out whether the animal results generalize to humans.

I think we all know thin, lazy people who seem to eat a great deal, and fat, active people who seem to eat very little. The thin person must (by definition) have a higher `metabolic rate' (that is, total energy expenditure) or a lower rate of nutrional absorption than the fat person. Whether the main contribution to the higher overall metabolic rate is thermogenesis, or insensible exercise (`fidgitiness', increased muscle tone, etc) or something else is not obvious.

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Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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At the end of the day, what contributes most to a person's weight, is how much that person eats.

You can eat all the brown rice you want, but it will make you just as fat as white rice (though your poo might not be so interesting with the white variety, but if you spend time examining that sort of thing, you really should be getting out more).

You can eat a donut a day, or you can eat one a week or you can eat a donut a month. The difference will show.

Exercise is important and, funnily enough, the more you weigh (meaning the more you have to lug around), the harder it is and the less pleasurable (or more revolting) it is.

Try carrying around a 5kg bag of potatoes for an hour. Carry it everywhere with you. That 5kgs on your body will be just as hard to lug around, even if evenly spread.

The best (and really only) way to lose weight is to eat less. Seems to me that the easiest thing to do is to look at what's on your plate every time you eat (assuming that you eat too much) and throw half of it into the bin before starting. If you do this, the potatoes will come off easily and walking/running/riding etc will be a much more pleasant experience.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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LATA - there's nothing "easy" about being hungry to the point of feeling nauseous.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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Maybe you'd better get used to the 5kg bag effect.

Hunger is normal. Starvation is not. But everyone should get really hungry before a meal. It makes eating worthwhile.

People stuff themselves all day, on the basis of a bit of a craving.

I have this notion that humans must be preprogrammed to cark it early. We have the medical knowledge to keep ourselves alive for much longer than ever before, and so humans are now eating and drinking so much that they will still all die at 60 of heart failure and cirrhosis.

They need to be more hungry more often.

[ 06. July 2006, 11:04: Message edited by: Left at the Altar ]

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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Frankly, if it came down to having stomach cramps all day and being on the verge of throwing up, or lugging the bag of potatoes, I'll take the potatoes.

I don't eat when I'm not hungry. I only eat what I know will keep me going until the next meal. But I still am slowly gaining as I approach 40.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373

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quote:
Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
Exercise is important and, funnily enough, the more you weigh (meaning the more you have to lug around), the harder it is and the less pleasurable (or more revolting) it is.

Try carrying around a 5kg bag of potatoes for an hour. Carry it everywhere with you. That 5kgs on your body will be just as hard to lug around, even if evenly spread.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I was a normal sized child, and hated and was bad at sports even then. I was probably at my thinnest ever during the period when I was asked to leave both ballet and scottish country dancing classes for being too clumsy and hopeless to teach.

And I was probably at my biggest (just back from working in the US!) when I discovered that cycling wasn't too unpleasant.

I've just realised I've made myself sound like some kind of fairy elephant on this thread - just as well nobody ever pays attention to anything I say. [Biased] I'm a klutz, but not immovably massive. Like Twilight, I put on about a stone, maybe more, after giving up smoking and have never been able to shift it permanently, it just keeps coming back. But that was pretty much unrelated to the amount of exercise I was doing before and after and during giving up.

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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]

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Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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But my point is, that exercise itself is unlikely to shift that weight. You can exercise all you like, but if you eat too much, you will probably still look like any fit person who eats a lot - like a weightlifter or a sumo wrestler.

You either have to like looking rounded (and there's nought necessarily wrong with that) or, if you want to look skinny (which is not necessarily a good thing in itself), you have to eat way less.

Exercise is good, but much harder if you have to do it with extra kgs. But having too little kgs is bad. Just look at that Pirates of the Caribbean woman. Blerrr. Poor dear.

[ 06. July 2006, 11:10: Message edited by: Left at the Altar ]

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