Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan the Man:
"God is the same irrespective of whether you pray to him in a temple, church or mosque,"

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
This was in the yesterday's edition of my paper. I found it incredibly encouraging and shall have to seek out his book, mentioned in the last paragraph, and look out for his next when it is published.

---

He must have a neck like that elephant idol, otherwise how could he stand with such a humongous millstone tied to it? Oh wait, now he has fallen to his knees. But hold on, it's just to worship blasphemously. Something seems to be carrying his millstone for him. It's hard to see what it is... a serpent?! Must be another Hindu deity, I guess.

--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by m.t-tomb:
Interesting. Do you actually think that Ganesh is a real, divine entity? If he is, do Jesus and he get along? Or is Ganesh just Jesus in an elephant suit? Or are Jesus and Ganesh actually something else: one disguised as a first century jew, the other disguised as a large Proboscidean?

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:

quote:

---

Originally posted by m.t-tomb:
Interesting. Do you actually think that Ganesh is a real, divine entity? If he is, do Jesus and he get along? Or is Ganesh just Jesus in an elephant suit? Or are Jesus and Ganesh actually something else: one disguised as a first century jew, the other disguised as a large Proboscidean?

---

Thanks for this. You point up in the most charming and humourous way the heresies involved for an orthodox Christian in this type of thinking.

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
hatless

(Respect to your recently changed sig BTW. Part of the story of my life.)

A question for you. Do you see a difference between inter-faith dialogue and inter-faith worship? (I include prayer in worship because prayers are offered to God). I'm fine with dialogue but inter-faith worship seems to me, to put it at its mildest, very confusing. I think that's the standard Anglican line anyway so there must be some issue of church order for David Hart. Of course that is a matter between him and his bishop.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by the coiled spring:
For those with short memories, Catweazle, the big matey of Cant, before being enthroned dressed up as a Druid priest so that his friends could honour him. So if the big matey as head of Anglican can dress up as a pagan priest, why should we be surprised with an Anglican little matey placing a pagan image outside his house and offer prayers. His is only hedging his bets on salvation.

---

Posted                          

quote:

---

Gregory won't like this, but an Indian friend suggested that the Orthodox doctrine of the Trinity is helpfully encouraging to syncretism, because it says the Spirit proceeds from just the Father. If the Spirit does not 'wear the name' of Jesus, then there is greater liberty to see the Spirit's activity in other faiths, under a different name. In an Indian context where Christianity finds it natural to put on Indian clothes this is very useful.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by hatless:
He's a serious, thoughtful and very well informed man, and a typically 'nice' Anglican vicar.

---

1. Moses: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." (Exodus 20:2-6, RSV)
2. Christ: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him." (John 14:6-7, RSV)
3. Anglicans: "Whatever. Another gin & tonic?"

Posted                      

quote:

---

The negative comments on this thread don't seem at all charming and humorous to me, but curiously extreme. I smell hate.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by m.t-tomb:
Extreme? Surely not? Hate? No. Just embarrassment. I actually feel ashamed to share the same office as the man. What a ridiculous individual.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by seasick:
Here is some information about the Gorsedd and the Eisteddfod. Suffice it to say that the Gorsedd is not pagan. If you want an analogy, think of it like being given a knighthood (only without the unpleasant militaristic overtones ).

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:

Oh really! He ought to reliquish his Anglican orders and go do his things with the UUs, or perhaps he'd find a place amongst the Society of Friends, but this man has no place amongst the clergy of an orthodox Christian communion.

Actually, I think he ought to be deposed, if this report is accurate.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Demas:

To expand, here is a set of propositions for UU and Society of Friends types

We should:

- recognise as fellow travellers and worshippers of the true God all those who seek to walk in the light of Love

- reject the teachings of those who declare the nature of God to be other than that of Love, whether they do so in the name of Christianity or another religious tradition

- be mindful not to fall into the trap of appropriating other people's traditions into our own metanarrative rather than letting them tell their own stories

Do these propositions apply? And if so, how does this affect Anglican priests with statues of Ganesh?

---

Good set of propositions. As a Friend, I would probably take out the word "should" since one basis of our perspective is direction from the Divine Light (or Spirit) as individually revealed--the Light, incidently, shines in each of us, so by denying others the right to express themselves as they are led, we are denying the Spirit.

That's my take on your questions.

As already mentioned, we wouldn't use idols for worship....unless so led

sabine

[ 28. August 2006, 13:33: Message edited by: sabine ]

--------------------
"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by sabine:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:

Oh really! He ought to reliquish his Anglican orders and go do his things with the UUs, or perhaps he'd find a place amongst the Society of Friends, but this man has no place amongst the clergy of an orthodox Christian communion.

Actually, I think he ought to be deposed, if this report is accurate.

---

And you're in charge of this, how? btw, what makes you think that we Quakers would pray using an idol?

sabine

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by the coiled spring:
Young Dave Marshall, one question, why would you be embarrassed

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by IngoB:

quote:

---

Originally posted by hatless:
He's a serious, thoughtful and very well informed man, and a typically 'nice' Anglican vicar.

---

I'm sure Arius was also a serious, thoughtful and very well informed man. But I keep forgetting that Christian revelation occured in three stages:

1. Moses: "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." (Exodus 20:2-6, RSV)
2. Christ: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him." (John 14:6-7, RSV)
3. Anglicans: "Whatever. Another gin & tonic?"

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Marshall:

quote:

---

Originally posted by the coiled spring:
Young Dave Marshall, one question, why would you be embarrassed

---

Matey, I'm not saying I understand the Hindu connection. I was commenting on the parallel between m.t's rather extreme variant of conservative evangelicalism and David Hart's alternative at another edge of the theological spectrum.

I'm personally probably at yet another theological extreme within the Church, but I try to make a point of remembering that we all might be wrong and that Hart may simply be further down the road of understanding than I am.

So while I consider m.t's views often unhelpful, sometimes potentially damaging, and usually plain wrong, however much of a disservice I think they do to the office of priest I'll do my best to avoid dismissing him personally in the way he seems happy to do with David Hart.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Marshall:

quote:

---

Originally posted by m.t-tomb:
Extreme? Surely not? Hate? No. Just embarrassment. I actually feel ashamed to share the same office as the man. What a ridiculous individual.

---

It might be worth noting that if I lived in a parish with a priest who thought and spoke as you do here, I would have similar thoughts about him or her.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
He seems like a good bloke to me.

Anmyone secure enough in their own faith has nothing to fear from the faiths of others and much to learn.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangarQueen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
He seems like a good bloke to me.

Anmyone secure enough in their own faith has nothing to fear from the faiths of others and much to learn.

---

But which faith, exactly, does he profess? I can't tell from that article whether he's a Hindu, a Christian or a Muslim. Seems he doesn't know either.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I did not post this hoping in any way to wind people up but because I read the article and found it interesting. I thought it might lead to a similarly interesting discussion here but I see that in the majority reasoned argument is out of the window and what I shall politely describe as firmly held views of entrenched positions are to the fore.

I suppose I'm not surprised, but I am saddened.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by m.t-tomb:

Would the conversation be more 'interesting' if it moved towards an affirmation of this man's ship-wrecking of the Christian faith?

---

Is the Christian faith on such shakey ground that one man engaging in a cross-cultural, inter-faith practice is going ship wreck it?

I think some of the responses here are far more defensive than this incident calls for.

I pretty sure Christianity is safe for the moment.

sabine

[ 28. August 2006, 15:04: Message edited by: sabine ]

--------------------
"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

Posted                          

quote:

---

Originally posted by m.t-tomb:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I did not post this hoping in any way to wind people up but because I read the article and found it interesting. I thought it might lead to a similarly interesting discussion here but I see that in the majority reasoned argument is out of the window and what I shall politely describe as firmly held views of entrenched positions are to the fore.

I suppose I'm not surprised, but I am saddened.

---

Would the conversation be more 'interesting' if it moved towards an affirmation of this man's ship-wrecking of the Christian faith? Why should I approve of what I consider to be idolotry? For goodness sake! The picture shows an Anglican priest offering incense (I think?) to an idol: an image made by human hands.

This isn't rocket science; the man's breaking the very first commandment. He's an high-handed idolator. Any sunday school child from my church would be able to see the error in that.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by m.t-tomb:
I think that this is quite close to a personal attack.

---