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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: Against Cremation
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tfbundy
Shipmate
# 9914
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Posted
I heard Dr Julian Lytton speak recently on this, (he is an ex-curator of the V&A and whose speciality was burials etc), and for those who wish to adhere to an ecological agenda, FYI the practice of cremation couldn't be more toxic to the planet when it comes to disposing of human remains.
The most ecologically sound is the practice of air burial, but it's a bit difficult to do that in Norfolk. Our cows tend to eat grass and our starlings seed. any ideas anyone?
Posts: 119 | From: Norfolk | Registered: Aug 2005
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313
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Posted
What a thread...
I want to make a comment on a strange "monophysitism", namely the "God can do anything" or that "God does not mind" kinds of arguments expressed in some posts. While God can resurrect the cremated, this has nothing to do with Christian life, because Christian life is, well, about the Christians that experience God and not about God Himself.
Orthodoxy is about a synergeia between God and man. She tells us that life is such a synergy; we are here to co-operate. When we don't cooperate with God, we either do our own thing or we assume that God will do His thing. But, Orthodoxy tells us, God does not do His own thing without the consent and the ACTIVE will of the people.
The question, the way I see it, is this: Is synergeia essential to the gospel of Christ? To my mind, it is. There can be no gospel without synergeia.
quote:
Originally posted by JimT:
Then the body was dug up, the bones stacked neatly some place else, and the plot used over. Whoa! Did I miss that earlier in this thread? Apparently the church was fine with this?! I read one woman's statement that she was fine with it because if you saw lots of flesh after three years, it meant you were a good Christian. Reminded me of the whole scene in The Brothers Karamazov where the body of a priest didn't stink for a long time so they wondered if he might be a saint. Weird stuff. You just can't keep some people from superstition.
It seems like there is internal debate inside Orthodoxy to soften the church's offical stance, and some of it is being justified on grounds of Jesus' position that social justice overrides strict adherence to rules and tradition that become an unbearable burden.
Is JimT, good old JimmyT? If that's the case, then hello old chap!
re par. 1 quoted above: I remember the new bishop of Pireus saying that the FINGER of Saint Basil the Great, which is now kept in the Holy Synod of Greece (after Caesaria was destroyed by the Turks), gave forth a beautiful fragrance, and that he himself has smelled it.
It seems that God chose a part of Saint Basil to glorify Himself and His Saint, and to guide His Church.
In fact, there are many Saints that remain intact. The champion of the first Ecumenical Council, Saint Spyridon, comes to mind, whose body is kept intact by God even in our days.
re par. 2 quoted above:
I remember a few months ago AGNOSTIC Greek intellectual Nikos Dimou (www.ndimou.gr) making a public letter to the prime minister, so that he will consider cremation. It seems that the prime minister made a deal with the Holy Synod, and cremation will be permitted for those WHOSE RELIGION PERMITS IT, OR who have expressed their will that they be cremated.
The Synod has not made a council yet, because cremation has not begun. However, listening to the bishop of Lagada (near Thessaloniki), "we will decide in a council. The opinion of the majority will prevail. This is the way we operate in Orthodoxy. The opinion of the majority."
However, many bishops spoke on the national networks, and they were clear that the Church will consider those who decide to get cremated, outside the Church, and they will not be enumerated among the faithful.
Posts: 11285 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
An interesting item on British graveyards, their intensely overcrowded state, and a possible new/old solution may be found here.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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JimT
Ship'th Mythtic
# 142
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by andreas1984:
The question, the way I see it, is this: Is synergeia essential to the gospel of Christ? To my mind, it is. There can be no gospel without synergeia.<snip> Is JimT, good old JimmyT? If that's the case, then hello old chap!
Yes, it's me.
The sweet-smelling finger stuff is too much for me. Your conclusion that God decided to glorify himself is the opposite conclusion of everyone else--everyone else thinks that it was to put his stamp of approval on the saint. God could have glorified himself by making a bad person's finger smell wonderful.
The 'synergeia' sounds exactly like my understanding of 'process theology.' For myself, I have a different notion of the essential message of the gospel but that would certainly be another thread for which I don't have time.
Nice to see you. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 2619 | From: Now On | Registered: May 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by andreas1984:
However, many bishops spoke on the national networks, and they were clear that the Church will consider those who decide to get cremated, outside the Church, and they will not be enumerated among the faithful.
I know this will mark me out as someone who just doesn't understand Orthodoxy... or the ecumenical councillor method of decision making.... the subtleties of infallibility and indefectability... one hopelessly individualistic, a real "me and jaysus" protestant... but this strikes me as well beyond the calling of the church and the gospel to claim such authority over individual decisions... and beyond simple human decency.
[ 09. September 2006, 19:40: Message edited by: mdijon ]
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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TubaMirum
Shipmate
# 8282
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by andreas1984:
However, many bishops spoke on the national networks, and they were clear that the Church will consider those who decide to get cremated, outside the Church, and they will not be enumerated among the faithful.
I know this will mark me out as someone who just doesn't understand Orthodoxy... or the ecumenical councillor method of decision making.... the subtleties of infallibility and indefectability... one hopelessly individualistic, a real "me and jaysus" protestant... but this strikes me as well beyond the calling of the church and the gospel to claim such authority over individual decisions... and beyond simple human decency.
I'm with you. But then, it's only recently that suicides, for instance, were regarded the same way in many faith traditions.
Posts: 4719 | From: Right Coast USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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