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Thread: Hell: Why not just have a siren go off? "FAT-so, FAT-so, FAT-so!"
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Ann
Curious
# 94
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess:
And yes, a very fit man himself, who did not hold my blubberous carnal carbon form against me.
I wouldn't have thought you'd want him to hold your form against you; against him maybe ...
quote:
[eta: dang, these buttered buns are good.]
I think it's time to take my mind to a purer board.
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Ann
Posts: 3271 | From: IO 91 PI | Registered: May 2001
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
You're just saying that because you're ugly, right?
Yer. Not as ugly as my husband, though.
quote:
Because that opinion of mine could use some refining. It's based on the general observation that humans tend to self-sort and associate with what they seem to consider to be others of similar status. However that status tends to be socially (read: somewhat arbitrarily) ranked at the time.
Where your theory falls down, I think, is that social association depends on loads more factors than simple sexual attraction. In fact, you could equally argue that the current social equivalence of weight with status actually distorts what we've evolved to find bodily attractive.
After all, plenty of men (in my experience) have affairs with women who are plumper than their wives, or patronise podgy prostitutes, who don't want for clients by all accounts. Both of those could be said to have far more to do with raw sexual attraction than permanent relationships do. Who some men secretly want to have sex with might have little to do with who they want to be seen with.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Iole Nui:
Who some men secretly want to have sex with might have little to do with who they want to be seen with.
Exactly. Which is why the word "status" is used rather than "comfort level" or "degree of familiarity."
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Iole Nui:
Where your theory falls down, I think, is that social association depends on loads more factors than simple sexual attraction.
It is indeed extremely hard to pare down the idea using social association as a measure, because that's going to absurdly underestimate open-minded peoples interactions. So, bear with me while I try to explain my offensiveness in better detail.
Let's take the completely impossible situation where there's a group of people whose only distinguishing characteristic are their fitness levels... and they're all looking to hook up. Standard human behaviour (as I've observed it) would then be for everybody to contemplate the desirability of those with compatible gender and sexual orientation to themselves, and those with which they are in competition for the attention of that subset. The healthiest (ergo, in our set, the most attractive) of a particular set will tend to succeed in pairing off with the most attractive member of the complementary set. Because of this, those who deem themselves to be mid-rank in attractiveness will usually have the most success vying for the attentions of similarly mid-rank individuals of the complementary set. And so on. Hence my suspicions about the objectivity of those espousing the glory of nominally low-rank attributes.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Iole Nui:
Yer. Not as ugly as my husband, though.
You ain't ugly, child. (Picture in gallery).
quote:
After all, plenty of men (in my experience) have affairs with women who are plumper than their wives, or patronise podgy prostitutes, who don't want for clients by all accounts. Both of those could be said to have far more to do with raw sexual attraction than permanent relationships do. Who some men secretly want to have sex with might have little to do with who they want to be seen with.
*Cough* Divine Brown. *Cough* Patti Scialfa 1988
[eta: Patti was not the boss's first wife.]
[ 01. January 2007, 18:30: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Rook: So how do you account for men whose weight is healthy who are sexually attracted to fat women? Because they do exist.
[ 01. January 2007, 18:31: Message edited by: RuthW ]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
...because that's going to absurdly underestimate open-minded peoples interactions.
That's a very, very important codicil. Thank you for it.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Rook: So how do you account for men whose weight is healthy who are sexually attracted to fat women?
The same way I account for people who are otherwise healthy that are sexually aroused by pain, or by animals, or by feces, or by partners with missing limbs:
The statistical fringe.
And I thought I was insulting before. Yowza. To clarify my clarification of my clarification - I do not mean to equate fat people with shit. I'm not try to assert any sort of perceived law or requirement, merely an observed strong tendency of the majority.
Is it just me, or am I standing on a narrow ledge?
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Is it just me, or am I standing on a narrow ledge?
<push>
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
RuthW, that was one cruel webpage. Dang it, the dudes always think fat chicks like me are easy...and I am a uptight white bitch who is celibate for religious reasons. I don't think I am the only tubb o' lard to be smacking drunks away with this tired stereo-type at discos/holiday parties/etc.
And now if you'll excuse me, I need to check up on RooK and see if he lived through being pushed off the cliff...
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
[ I'm not try to assert any sort of perceived law or requirement, merely an observed strong tendency of the majority.
Is it just me, or am I standing on a narrow ledge?
Maybe the minority in the case of 'zaftique' people is not as "fringe" as you think. Maybe it's more like men who have a thing for girls with a gap in their teeth, or guys who like short- haired girls, Or (using me) girls who have thing for tenor men, or short guys.
In other words, maybe it's not a fetish but a simple preference. Why is that such a wild idea?
Having said all that, there is a grain of truth in what you say, as I have met the kind of person who is secretly attracted to people nearer the common standard of beauty, but will settle for hanging out with you because they feel they can do no better-- because of thier own self image. They usually end up reminding you of this frequently, in one way or another.
I'm learning to smell them and avoid them, because, dammit, I want to hang out with somebody who actually thinks I really am the best they can do. So bring on your open-minded folk.
[ 01. January 2007, 19:00: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
I kind of see it like this...in my job, I sell software that has some huge competition. Better known products, more sexy....better marketing $$$ than mine.
But I still manage to find people who want to go with my product.
There is a lot of business out there, just waiting to be found.
Same thing about men. The majority of them may well be attracted to women, thinner, younger, prettier etc than me.
But there is that percentage that is attracted to me for whatever reason. And all I need is one.
<Is he dead yet? Nope? Good...um, he is sort of useful and we need him back here to be host...throws rope...>
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Kelly: You like tenors? That's sick, I tell you, just sick. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
RooK: My guess is that the men who like really, really fat women are, as you say, the statistical fringe. But I think the men who like the more in-between women, neither obese nor buff, are pretty normal and rather more plentiful than one would think from looking at the images of women in the mass media.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I have met the kind of person who is secretly attracted to people nearer the common standard of beauty, but will settle for hanging out with you because they feel they can do no better-- because of thier own self image. (snip)
I'm learning to smell them and avoid them, because, dammit, I want to hang out with somebody who actually thinks I really am the best they can do.
Er, aren't they the same people? The guy with self esteem issues may be attracted to the supermodels, but if he genuinely doesn't think he can hit that mark then he does believe that you're the best he can do.
Or do you mean you're looking for someone who thinks you're the best there is? Coz that's a very different thing indeed...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Kelly: You like tenors? That's sick, I tell you, just sick.
Certainly defies Darwin; I should be attracted to DEEP, MANLY, TESTOSTERONE ENRICHED voices!
(There is one gentleman of my acquaintance who could keep me extraordinarily happy if he just found something to whisper in my ear two or three times a day. Seriously, the word "no" would completely disappear from my vocabulary.)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Or do you mean you're looking for someone who thinks you're the best there is? Coz that's a very different thing indeed...
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Yeah, I phrased it arrogantly. To put it more humbly: I'm looking for someone who does actually enjoy and delight in me, rather than simply settles for me.
[ 01. January 2007, 19:37: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Maybe the minority in the case of 'zaftique' people is not as "fringe" as you think.
Maybe my understanding of zaftig is confused, but I certainly wouldn't classify that as unhealthy or unattractive. Full bosoms, rounded hips, and lots of curves are what healthy adult females often look like. Despite what fashion sources try to insist.
Further, it seems likely to me that humans are instinctively predisposed to sexually idealize the forms we take when we're aged 18-24. So it appears to be quite likely that we're all potentially a bit conflicted with regard to sexual image when we get much past that age.
Thanks to Kelly and duchess, who both seem willing to take my expressed opinions with charity about me personally.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
Yes. [er, that yes was to what RuthW posted: x-posted with a cast of thousands]
Now I don't have much truck with socio-biology (except when it backs up my personal prejudices, obviously) but it is fairly clear that throughout most of human existence a certain amplitude in a woman has signified a) fertility and b) greater likelihood of surviving to raise offspring successfully. It hardly seems wild to assume that these are desirable traits in a sexual partner, and that an extremely short time of plenty is unlikely to have reversed millenia of conditioning (refer back to the zaftig mistresses and prostitutes).
I'm not claiming that all men are going to be identical in their desires - clearly they are not, we are not slaves to our evolution. And I'm not claiming that gross obesity is a survival trait. But it does seem likely that a liking for the normally plump sort of woman is well within the range of normal, far more so than our culture allows. And that those drawn to gross obesity are are on the extreme end of a normal curve, rather than comparable to coprophiliacs and amputee fetishists.
Through no fault of my own I've spent a dispiriting amount of my working life playing mother confessor to young male engineers* and one thing I've learned is that the women many of them actually fancy are not the same women that they admit to fancying when talking with their male friends.
* addmittedly maybe not a representative sample
[ 01. January 2007, 19:51: Message edited by: Iole Nui ]
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Maybe the minority in the case of 'zaftique' people is not as "fringe" as you think.
Maybe my understanding of zaftig is confused, but I certainly wouldn't classify that as unhealthy or unattractive. Full bosoms, rounded hips, and lots of curves are what healthy adult females often look like. Despite what fashion sources try to insist.
Further, it seems likely to me that humans are instinctively predisposed to sexually idealize the forms we take when we're aged 18-24. So it appears to be quite likely that we're all potentially a bit conflicted with regard to sexual image when we get much past that age.
Thanks to Kelly and duchess, who both seem willing to take my expressed opinions with charity about me personally.
I've been wondering if the definition of "fat" is the issue-- because I think in the last 15 years or so the medical definitions have loosened up a bit in that regard. When I was (say) 20, I was about 10 pounds "overweight" at 120 (even though all the muscle on my arms vanished at this weight), and clinically "obese" at 145
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Full bosoms, rounded hips, and lots of curves are what healthy adult females often look like.
Well, given that we both live in cultures where that sort of figure would routinely be described as fat, perhaps you should have been more specific in your original statement.
Also, a great many people are not skinny and coltish when they are 18-24. The current culturally desirable sillouette is far more typical of late pre-pubescence than it is of sexually mature young adults.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Thanks to Kelly and duchess, who both seem willing to take my expressed opinions with charity about me personally.
It is because I have made peace with myself about being um, zaftig. It sort of now reads like "I only like women under 5'3" " to me when I read something like "I prefer the skinny fit women since they can do acrobats". I am not offended in the least by that since I do not have what is called scarcity mentality.
Why? Because I worked with black people for over 6 years. I had older women beat into my head over and over again that being um, larger, is not a bad thing. I also have nowadays a good friend in Sweden who prefers larger rounder chicks. He will try to date a chick who is smaller because she is pretty and has a great personality, but he really wants a fat one secretly. I always end up dying of laughter when he calls me up to lament on how skinny somebody got or express delight in how curvy his latest date is.
So I could go on, but in effect, if you are at peace with yourself, the way you are, bald, short, whatever...you will not get offended so easy.
There is a woman in my life who seems upset that I can date and be happy at my weight ... and the fact that I am not a "really pretty girl". I feel sorry for her. She actually said that to me less than a month ago "...it is hard, duchess, for me...it is not easy being a really pretty girl...you said yourself you don't want to be a raving beauty". I was a bit shocked but I just said "Um, yeah, true. I don't want to be a raving beauty. And it does not guarantee you love". This chick is still not talking to me. She is highly insecure even though she is slender, beautiful & intelligent in some areas in life.
And that makes her act like a royal wanker at times.
Scarcity mentality does that to people.
[apologies to long-ass post but still.]
[ 01. January 2007, 20:22: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Iole Nui:
Well, given that we both live in cultures where that sort of figure would routinely be described as fat, perhaps you should have been more specific in your original statement.
Perhaps, and I think I've paid the price in terms of the subsequent tap-dancing I've had to do.
Nevertheless, regardless of how ridiculously anorexic much of the cultural media insists is the ideal, I still argue that when weight starts affecting apparent health it simultaneously affects physical attractiveness. For most people, most of the time, when considering physique exclusively (however unrealistic that is in practice).
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Or do you mean you're looking for someone who thinks you're the best there is? Coz that's a very different thing indeed...
Yeah, I phrased it arrogantly. To put it more humbly: I'm looking for someone who does actually enjoy and delight in me, rather than simply settles for me.
I don't think it would be arrogant to want to be with someone who genuinely thinks you're the best there is. My old man regularly and sincerely tells me that I am the Most Beautiful Woman in the World.
Now if you take a look at my picture you'll see it isn't so.
Or wait! Could it perhaps be the case that beauty is in the eye of the beholder? If so, doesn't everyone deserve to be with someone who sees something extraordinarily beautiful when they look at them??
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Nevertheless, regardless of how ridiculously anorexic much of the cultural media insists is the ideal, I still argue that when weight starts affecting apparent health it simultaneously affects physical attractiveness. For most people, most of the time, when considering physique exclusively (however unrealistic that is in practice).
That isn't an unreasonable proposition (though logically it should also apply to the severely underweight, and I don't routinely hear men who fancy very skinny women compared to coprophiliacs. However.)
But I'd still maintain that health, like attractiveness, is a much broader band than much of our current culture allows for. And also varies a lot from individual to individual in both directions*. 'Health' is an easy way for people to justify indulging their aesthetic prejudices.
* A couple of shipmates have complained in the past that although they eat sensibly, their health has been routinely questioned because they are naturally thin.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
...
Nevertheless, regardless of how ridiculously anorexic much of the cultural media insists is the ideal, I still argue that when weight starts affecting apparent health it simultaneously affects physical attractiveness. For most people, most of the time, when considering physique exclusively (however unrealistic that is in practice).
Looking at the preferences of our black brothas...Latin brothas, Southern brothas, Middle-Eastern brothas & Eastern-European brothas, even this statement is open for interpetation on different levels, than say a white brotha from the West-Coast.
quote:
think I've paid the price in terms of the subsequent tap-dancing I've had to do...
No, I'd say you still have some mo' tap-dancin' to do. If it were up to me, but than okay.
<tap-deee-dee-tap-tap...Mr. Bojangles...tap-tap-dee-tap-tap!>
[ 01. January 2007, 22:12: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess:
Looking at the preferences of our black brothas...Latin brothas, Southern brothas, Middle-Eastern brothas & Eastern-European brothas, even this statement is open for interpetation on different levels, than say a white brotha from the West-Coast.
Please spare us your terrible whigger impersonation. Do you mean to suggest that the sociological trend of preferring healthy-appearing mates is an artifact limited primarily to the left coast of North America?
Here's some tap shoes. Go for it.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
No. I think it is everywhere white boys like you want to go, not just the Left Coast. Everybody knows that in the South, the taste run a little bigger on average. And that men from other countries don't always prefer Jane Fonda Jr. Or Sir-Mix-a-lot (anybody remember him?)
I would rather talk like this than your mumble jumble Iamsuchasocialscientist crap. Your psycho-babble is annoying since you hide behind it rather than say what want directly. That is your choice. This is my choice and how I really talk in real life. I am not changing for you after 4 years of being addicted to these boards.
If you don't want to tap dance, than take off your dancing shoes. Or sit around and say "I don't feel like dancing". It's your choice.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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samara
Shipmate
# 9932
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Iole Nui:
I don't routinely hear men who fancy very skinny women compared to coprophiliacs.
You know, I can't think of any instance of men fancying very skinny women. Certainly that's what is pushed by the fashion industry, women's magazines, whatever. But I have never heard (or can't remember): "I'd rather have sex with a stick-thin woman." or "She's so skinny, that's hot." Healthy, fit, thin, yes. But never very skinny.
Is it common, and I haven't noticed? Or as subliminal as I suspect?
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Bookworms will rule the world (after we finish the background reading).
Courtesy of Trouble in China
Posts: 439 | From: Canada | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by samara:
You know, I can't think of any instance of men fancying very skinny women. Certainly that's what is pushed by the fashion industry, women's magazines, whatever. But I have never heard (or can't remember): "I'd rather have sex with a stick-thin woman." or "She's so skinny, that's hot." Healthy, fit, thin, yes. But never very skinny.
The only person I can remember expressing a preference for skinny in so many words, was, oddly enough, Donald Sutherland (Keifer's dad). I have no idea why I remember that!
But I've worked a lot with groups of young single men, and listened to a lot of locker room type chat over the office cubicle wall. Castigation, in the coarsest of sexual terms, of any woman with an ounce of flesh on her in my experience comes a close second to crude homophobia as a conversational topic*. Both a million miles from the sentiments expressed by the same boys in private conversation away from the pack.
And does anybody remember the outright personal viciousness directed at Amber Benson ('fat' Tara)when she joined Buffy, not by the media but by fans. She claims that at the time her doctor already considered her to be medically underweight.
In a society where perceptions of body image are so royally screwed up, terms like skinny, fit, thin and healthy have really lost any meaning - see RooK's earlier use of 'fat' and the confusion that ensued.
I'm really not bothered about individual preferences, to which people are entitled. What's irritating me is RooK's apparent attempt to dress up a culturally specific trend as a universal truth.
* when they're not talking about football, obviously
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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ananke
Shipmate
# 10059
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Posted
I think we need to remember that the maximum healthy waist circumference for a woman is approximately the same circumference as the average model's bust/hips.
I'm rather curious as to the sexual acrobatic difference between thin and lardo...not a damn thing has changed for me over the 30kg gain since I started.
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...and I bear witness, this grace, this prayer so long forgotten.
A Perfect Circle - Magdalena
Posts: 617 | From: australia | Registered: Aug 2005
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
Just to add more confusion....
In evolutionary terms, people are looking for a sexually/reproductively healthy partner. And it's not weight that people subconsciously judge this on, it's body proportions. For women the ideal proportion is a ratio of 0.7 waist to hips (i.e. your waist measurement is around 70% or your hips measurement). For men it's higher - around 0.85 or 0.9.
Somewhat interesting article about waist-to-hip ratios.
Can't pull the actual studies etc., because my books are not in the same place as me, currently ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
So attractiveness is not solely dependent on weight but also on proportions - up to a certain weight, you'll be more attractive if you have an hourglass figure (if you're female) rather than going straight up and down
Sarkycow
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarkycow:
up to a certain weight, you'll be more attractive if you have an hourglass figure (if you're female) rather than going straight up and down
Well I never! Who could have guessed that? It's so reassuring that some of the brightest minds in the country are working on this kind of conundrum.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
I know this thread is about weight, but something RooK hinted at earlier is key here: we are not just attracted to someone's physical characteristics. Remember, a nice selection of features can come together on a dead person too - but damn few people are attrracted to dead people. It's the spark within that causes attraction.
I submit to you - fat or thin (or just freaking normal, people), tall or short, pale or dark, hairy or bald - we are attracted to those people with the combination of personality quirks and dysfuncitons that we are pre-programmed to be attracted to.
I have been involved with all physical types. No men who are outrageously obese, but not because I am repulsed by obesity; I happen to be attracted to people who spend their time outdoors, non-motorized, and being active. that eliminates the severely obese. but chubby guys - sure. I had a boyfriend for a short time who was pretty hefty - and damn fine to look at. My husband is quite lean - until recently he was too lean for what I would normally consider healthy/attractive - but he is massively sexy.
I believe we are attracted to personality and compatibility. And self-esteem, frankly. The people who are considered unversally sexy, IME, are those who meet your gaze, smile beautifully, laugh loud, and aren't afraid of putting themselves out there.
Things like clothing/hair/make up merely reflect that aspect of their personality.
I see what RooK is saying about attractive body types (I think that is what you're getting at) and yes, people in general, given a line up of those dead bodies, I think would select those who are in the middle of the road. I think unenhanced and photo-retouched supermodels would be at the bottom of the barrel, along with the morbidly obese. I'm not attracted to skin and bones, I dont want to see ribs.
and those who are healthy, rounded, and showing the signs of being physically active would have the highest level of attractiveness.
but those are just bodies. it's a meaningless measurement. We're not attracted to dead bodies.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
I really don't know exactly what RooK is saying comet since he is so vague to me. Your guess is as good as mine and it makes total sense. I am with you in what you are saying, it is my hope he is too, but I won't sleep at night if he is not.
BTW,
My own sister has this on her friendster blog:
"Amiable, outgoing, mustelid-loving, low-carbing, artistic
yet working in high tech, fat yet a triathlete, American yet
lived for three years in Europe"
Yes, she weighs more than me and yet is a traithelete. She just had a baby boy in April.
She is way fitter than some slender people who may "look fitter". If you have PCOS, lots of physical activity does not make you lose weight as much as those who do not have it. Those who would like to challenge me are welcome to do so. I am armed with medical data, have been researching my condition & my sister's for over 5 years now.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315
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Posted
A tribute for Duchess. Hey, some of us do admire a big backside. I however agree that more than looks are required.
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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown
Posts: 2716 | From: Houston | Registered: Jun 2004
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
I'm too nosy not to ask. What does
quote:
mustelid-loving
mean?
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Hey, just got sis on the yahoo...
"Mustelids are weasels...the whole weasel family of animals"
(My sister loves ferrets, I guess this includes them...)
eta: rugasaw, I had forgotten how filthy that song was! Shame on me! Argh. Ah, but thx for the tribute.
It took me back in time. To the early 90s. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 02. January 2007, 22:13: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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KenWritez
Shipmate
# 3238
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Posted
FWIW, having met duchess and Kelly, their physiques enhanced their attractiveness but did not form the whole of it. What was inside was more important.
[ 02. January 2007, 22:27: Message edited by: KenWritez ]
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"The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd." --Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction
My blog: http://oxygenofgrace.blogspot.com
Posts: 11102 | From: Left coast of Wonderland, by the rabbit hole | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Weasel love. To some, it's a beautiful thing. Who are we to judge people on their hobbies?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Um better than muskrat luv.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by KenWritez:
FWIW, having met duchess and Kelly, their physiques enhanced their attractiveness but did not form the whole of it. What was inside was more important.
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) Right back at you Ken.
Even if I have work to do on my outsides, I hope that they will always be the least attractive thing about me.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by KenWritez:
FWIW, having met duchess and Kelly, their physiques enhanced their attractiveness but did not form the whole of it. What was inside was more important.
I've also met them both but never suspected that the quality of their ribs, tenderloin or brisket could outweigh their physical attractiveness. Although I haven't your unique expertise in culinary discrimination, I'm always willing to be enlightened.
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--Formerly: Gort--
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Emma Louise
Storm in a teapot
# 3571
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Posted
Kelly is one gorgeous girly
Posts: 12719 | From: Enid Blyton territory. | Registered: Nov 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess:
eta: rugasaw, I had forgotten how filthy that song was! Shame on me! Argh. Ah, but thx for the tribute.
Duch-- favor to Kelster-- change your sig to "LA face with Oakland Booty"
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Surely the 'Baby Got Book' version would be more appropriate for Duchess.
I like big Bibles and I cannot lie ...
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Surely the 'Baby Got Book' version would be more appropriate for Duchess.
I like big Bibles and I cannot lie ...
Well there is this...
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Duch, you rock.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Duch, you rock.
Thanks Kelly. I'll keep it up for maybe a week but then will replace it was something more humble.
BTW, the big bible video is up on my blog. click! ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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Lynn MagdalenCollege
Shipmate
# 10651
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by Iole Nui:
Well, given that we both live in cultures where that sort of figure would routinely be described as fat, perhaps you should have been more specific in your original statement.
Perhaps, and I think I've paid the price in terms of the subsequent tap-dancing I've had to do.
Nevertheless, regardless of how ridiculously anorexic much of the cultural media insists is the ideal, I still argue that when weight starts affecting apparent health it simultaneously affects physical attractiveness. For most people, most of the time, when considering physique exclusively (however unrealistic that is in practice).
Have you seen Monster House? I won't say more, not wanting to do spoilers, but it's relevant to this thread and this post in particular...
Duchess, your friend who tells you how hard it is being a really attractive woman is NOT a really attractive woman; she's a jerk. I've known several of those, the I'm going to use my model-looks to intimidate you because, in fact, you intimidate ME! bleah. You're better off w/o her friendship (unless you like a person like that to run "interference" for you - this can be useful, in fact) because, clearly, her outsides are the most attractive thing about her - and that don't last.
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Erin & Friend; Been there, done that; Ruth musical
Posts: 6263 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2005
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
It is amazing how transparent people are and how they don't seem to realise that they are.
She is plenty boring. Much prettier than I will ever be. But oh so boring, it hurts.
Self-absorbed people often are pretty...and pretty boring. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
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