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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Why not just have a siren go off? "FAT-so, FAT-so, FAT-so!"
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Newman's Own
Shipmate
# 420
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Posted
I imagine that Persephone is supposed to either walk the streets naked or wrap herself in a sheet, considering that any attempt to buy clothing will be taken for her being deluded and thinking she is a size 4.
I do hope that sales assistants have enough intelligence to realise (as those Perspephone mentioned do not) that the obese size 14 who just walked into the store used to be a size 28. She's been in slimming programmes for years, and cannot remember the last time she either had a decent meal or did anything in the evening other than going to a gym. She's had to constantly reduce intake through the years, just not to gain back what she's lost. She's trying desperately to pretend that all that matters is better 'heart health,' but still does wish she were svelte. (Of course, she may have lost massive amounts of weight by getting away from 'healthy' pasta and the like, but that does not matter either.)
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Cheers,
Elizabeth
“History as Revelation is seldom very revealing, and histories of holiness are full of holes.” - Dermot Quinn
Posts: 6740 | From: Library or pub | Registered: Jun 2001
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Newman's Own, please pray for the poor old soul who can no longer smile because of a cracked lip due to the absence of all fats (that might soften dry skin) in the diet.
Unfortunately I now know quite a number of people who have become, over the years, quite skinny and flabby, but they can't smile.... alas. All dried up and wrinkled like an old prune. Faces like cubist paintings.
M
feeling impelled to drink canola oil right out of the bottle!
[ 05. January 2007, 14:58: Message edited by: Leetle Masha ]
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eleison me, tin amartolin: have mercy on me, the sinner
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Leetle Masha
Cantankerous Anchoress
# 8209
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Posted
Song of Songs [Solomon] 8:8.
M
Posts: 6351 | From: Hesychia, in Hyperdulia | Registered: Aug 2004
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Bittersweet
Shipmate
# 10483
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Posted
Duchess, that's quite foul!
She looks like she's about to break a limb, and as for the sticky-out ribs... (shudders)
Posts: 237 | From: Here and Now | Registered: Sep 2005
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
I guess that is just a matter of opinion though.
All subjective.
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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rosamundi
Ship's lacemaker
# 2495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess:
Well, this is what is considered is sexy now...
For the love of the sweet Baby Jesus, someone give that woman some food before she breaks.
Deborah
Posts: 2382 | From: here or there | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Saw a documentary called "Thin" on HBO,about a bunch of women in rehab for eating disorders. They all pretty much had the physical type of Nichole. Two of them broke out on a day pass and got tattoos. When the tattoo artist-- young, muscle-bound guy-- asked where they came from, they told him about the rehab center, and one of them said "They are trying to make us fat."
"Oh, God, don't let them do that!" he cried.
Both girls looked like they had been slapped. But then they put big smiles on their faces and assured him they wouldn't.
One of them was about 95 pounds.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Lynn MagdalenCollege
Shipmate
# 10651
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Posted
I have an acquaintance online (mutual IRL friend) who is about 85 lbs and it's very touch and go whether she will survive. This is a brilliant woman; she was also an Olympic contender gymnast, so the ED goes 'way back. She has badly damaged her heart with the ED. She knows intellectually that she isn't fat but, in her bones, she feels compelled to exercise until she drops and eat next to nothing; she tries to avoid purging w/laxatives, etc. She's working really hard to stay alive - but the jury's still out.
As much as my knees creak under too many stairs (and it's all my fault, no question) I would rather have my weight problems than hers *anyday* - even though she "looks good"... We have become one seriously twisted society. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Erin & Friend; Been there, done that; Ruth musical
Posts: 6263 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2005
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
duchess posted: quote:
Well, this is what is considered is sexy now...
As a male, I have to disagree with whoever is doing that considering. That woman (she is a woman, right?) looks absolutely hideous. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
Here we go again; focusing on the ridiculous extremes. Ms. Ritchie and the bizarre ex-gymnast are as much outside the norm as the occasional gigantic 800-lb person on the news who was so large they had to use a crane to lift their body out of their apartment after they died. Nobody on this thread has even remotely suggested that sickly concentration camp appearance is attractive.
The central issue, as far as I see it, is that as a society we're suffering from large numbers of us being obese - much larger numbers than we are suffering from being wretched scarecrows. The fact that there are wretched scarecrows is in no way a justification for many of us being unhealthily overweight. Neither is the fact that the stupid fashion media pushes anorexic appearance as attractive in any sane way an impetus to be morbidly obese.
Honestly, the ability of you fat people to distract yourselves from your gaping maw of personal culpability for your own state is truly remarkable.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Not really, RooK, eating disorders are just about as close to being declared epidemic as obesity. They kind of weirdly go hand -in- hand.
It's as if the country is so fucked up about the weight issue that half of us are going "fuck it" and overeating, and the other half are going "fuck it" and not eating.
But wait, weren't you they guy a few post up worrying about people personally judging you for your opinions? And now you are personally judging everyone's "culpability" (which you know nothing about)?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
...
Honestly, the ability of you fat people to distract yourselves from your gaping maw of personal culpability for your own state is truly remarkable.
The only crime I have is being too much woman for most men to handle. If that is a crime, then some cop pull me over. All this sexiness in one place is just too much for me, sometimes I just can not stand it.
And you can kiss my fat bitchin' ass. After you are done with your lame lectures.
[edited to say...you can so do better than that.]
[ 06. January 2007, 02:01: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
But wait, weren't you they guy a few post up worrying about people personally judging you for your opinions? And now you are personally judging everyone's "culpability" (which you know nothing about)?
I am culpable for what I say, though I do hope that neither you nor duchess or the rest think that I mean to say I don't like you or find you repulsive. So, yeah, I am worrying that I'm being cast into the role of some non-human who can't possibly understand. As if I don't eat, or as if I don't like to eat. As if I can't possibly fathom the gentle cradle of relaxing instead of running regularly, or using the car to get my groceries instead of walking 20 minutes each way with a backpack. As if I have some magic force field surrounding me that makes calories bounce off of me and it's all effortless for me stay healthy.
If you want to back up the statement that eating disorders are anywhere near the problem among the general public that obesity is, I'll talk about it. But what was the point of it in this thread, if not as some sort of straw man? "Oh look, some crazy people have overreacted to the concept of their self-image!" Or maybe it was meant as a suggestion that the media treats fat people as non-humans that can't be understood.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
The point is we really do need to address what is healthy or not, because the way people keep lowering and lowering the weight bar is fucking with people's heads. Now everybody thinks they are fat. This mindset creates extreme behavior.
Part of my hysteria is that I work with kids. They are picking up on this stuff at horrifically early ages. No shit. And you can bet that none of my kids are worried that they will be too skinny.
Dragging us back to the OP--that kind of public shaming-- and that's what it is-- will just serve to fuck with more people's heads-- "Oh shit, am I gaining weight? I sure don't want to get pamphleted at Mervyn's"
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
As if I don't eat, or as if I don't like to eat. As if I can't possibly fathom the gentle cradle of relaxing instead of running regularly, or using the car to get my groceries instead of walking 20 minutes each way with a backpack. As if I have some magic force field surrounding me that makes calories bounce off of me and it's all effortless for me stay healthy.
Ok, now imagine that in the middle of making all this effort, your fucking arches collapsed. Might it not make you a little bitter? and a little resentful at a bunch of suppositions foisted on you by a total stranger (Mervyn's again) as to how you live your life?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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lapensiera
Shipmate
# 4057
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Posted
I think it might reduce the fucking-with of my head just enough to be tolerable if the stupid asshats who design clothes would - if their current designs do indeed only look good on 5'10" size 2 women - start designing something for the rest of us who are not that size/height that looks good. Especially that looks good on someone younger than 60! It is INDESCRIBABLY frustrating to wear the same number size once worn by the sexiest of the sexy (viz. Marilyn Monroe, Jayne Mansfield, Mae West, need I go on?) yet NEVER be able to find anything beautiful that I can wear and feel like my inner bombshell self. May the eejit designers ... sorry, just had to add that rant!
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"We need not be afraid of the power that is in us;
it will meet its match one day in the omnipotent weakness of God." Simon Tugwell
Posts: 211 | From: south central Louisiana, USA | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
One more point-- the point of my "thin" story was not the anorexics per se, but the reaction of Johnny Tattoo.
I mean, fuck me, the girls are telling him they are at a rehab for eating disorders and he says "Ewww! Don't let them make you fat!"
Why the heck was that such a knee- jerk response for him? To me, that says he's picked up the idea that Half-dead chick is better than Fat chick.
How many "No Skinny chicks" bumper stickers do you see?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess:
The only crime I have is being too much woman for most men to handle.
Yeah. Keep telling yourself that.
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I mean, fuck me, the girls are telling him they are at a rehab for eating disorders and he says "Ewww! Don't let them make you fat!"
Why the heck was that such a knee- jerk response for him? To me, that says he's picked up the idea that Half-dead chick is better than Fat chick.
Hell, he was probably just telling them what they wanted to hear so that they'd stick around and give him money. Good sales technique.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
(grumble) That does make sense. Still makes him a dickhead.
Oh and sorry RooK, if you think I meant you know nothng about culpability. What I meant was, you know nothing about somebody else's culpability.
But my real problem? You brought up sex. And hinted that if all the zaftig- lovers got wise, they'd deprive me of sex. Let's just say you hit me at the wrong moment. I'm sure you've been there.
(Stomps off to take cold shower.)
[ 06. January 2007, 03:45: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
This verifies that I probably started hearing about eating disorders as"epidemic" in the 80's sometime.
I'm not really concerned if the numbers are "anywhere near" the numbers for obesity-- the numbers are large enough to create a significant health problem, and draw on the health community.
And really? I am arguing that both obesity and reduction eating disorders belong in the same category of "we are really fucked up about health" What we are currently doing is not working.
Mocking and diminishing fat folk has been a technique at work for quite a while... and it doesn't- fucking-work. In some cases, it makes the situation markedly worse. If what we are after is resutls-- well, there you go.
[ 06. January 2007, 04:03: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Yeah. Keep telling yourself that.
Actually my deacon ex-boyfriend years ago told me that. Very cheesy lame phrase but I treasure it.
The real crux of this matter is exactly what has gone on in this thread...and goes on everywhere. The desexualization (is that really a word, okay checked on gooogle, yup) of zaftig women everywhere of how we are portrayed.
I try to ignore these types of threads but I honestly can't stand some chick reading out there and actually being depressed over it. So I flaunt myself, so sue me.
Done flaunting now though. All serious and um stuff.
[edited out swear word. I have kidlets over watching bad tv shows atm.]
[ 06. January 2007, 04:11: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
In my defense, though my mention of sex might have been the most memorable, it was technically a response. And it was meant to suggest that most people have a fairly wide range of what they find physically attractive, such that if chubby chasers were denied rubenesque targets they may well still get by just fine with other body types.
And I've been agreeing all along that simply mocking and diminishing people probably isn't going to be terribly productive. Though I am guilty of suggesting that it is understandable that society would probably need to identify people as clearly overweight, and I also grumbled that any such attempt would be taken poorly by the unfortunate people in this category.
And, as much as I can respect what everybody has been explaining about the myriad of involved issues, sometimes it's hard to swallow. It seems like everybody has an excuse of some sort or another. It's human nature, I suppose.
But, when I see my co-workers taking the elevator exclusively to go down one floor, and loading up a monstrous pile of food in the cafeteria, and hitting the fountain pop machine six times during the work day, I have to say that I think they're unhealthy and fat because of themselves. Sure, it's the end result of a long slippery slope, but it's not like it was a particularly surprising progression.
Maybe they don't care about it, but that doesn't make them any less responsible. I doubt anybody forced anything between their lips, or that anybody stopped them from getting a membership at a pool. We are all well-paid professionals with excellent health care. Hell, the company helps sponsor our gym memberships, forces managers to make allowances for workout schedules, and has "health fairs" where they drag the HMO's in to give anybody who has a spare couple minutes a brief physical.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
But, when I see my co-workers taking the elevator exclusively to go down one floor, and loading up a monstrous pile of food in the cafeteria, and hitting the fountain pop machine six times during the work day, I have to say that I think they're unhealthy and fat because of themselves. Sure, it's the end result of a long slippery slope, but it's not like it was a particularly surprising progression.
Maybe they don't care about it, but that doesn't make them any less responsible. I doubt anybody forced anything between their lips, or that anybody stopped them from getting a membership at a pool. We are all well-paid professionals with excellent health care. Hell, the company helps sponsor our gym memberships, forces managers to make allowances for workout schedules, and has "health fairs" where they drag the HMO's in to give anybody who has a spare couple minutes a brief physical.
Behavior that extreme ceases to be medical and begins to be mental, IMO. Actually, Not IMO, in the opinion of the NIMH.
Which is the crux of the problem.
I think the real answer is pouring a fuckload of money into the NAEYC (or your national equivalent) and First Five, because it's between ages 0-7 we can set the kind of habits people need to generally maintain their health. It's probably more like fighting heroin addiction for adults.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Was it lapensiera, a couple pages back, who ranted about the stupid designers not designing attractive stuff for us well-rounded womens?
It's getting better -- maybe hit more ethnic shops? Look for lines that have never abandoned the West/Monroe/Mansfield figure. You'll never see "Fat-so Fat-so Fat-so" tags there.
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Janine, I have met you in person, and I can safely say that any guy who doesn't experience a testosterone rush at the first flash of your eyes simply has a funtional problem...
Excellent compliment, coming from a woman who could be the archetypical flowing original all the best ships' figureheads take after. I think you know a thing or two about flashing eyes. (Sniffle...) Sweet of you to say, too, Kel, especially since you so cruelly refused to sleep with me in Santa Fe.* ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
There is a strange connection between the radically too-thin and many size-20-and-ups -- I see it in myself. It's that disconnect from reality, a body image of oneself that hasn't, logically, anything to do with the real.
75-pound almost-dead girls look in the mirror and see "fat". Perfectly fit girls looking up from the fifth regurgitation of the day see "obese" in the bathroom mirror.
I look in the mirror and see... A thrill ride. The cockpit of a vintage luxury car well-covered in butter-soft Fine Corinthian Leather. A full-fat, extra-cream dessert, spiked with spices and finest liquors and set afire as it's served.
Then logic reminds me I'm a middle-aged grandmother, but it doesn't matter -- I revel in the out-of-sync picture (fantasy? insanity?) in my head.
I doubt it has a lot of effect on the men I work with every day -- all those taut young engineers probably see the middle-aged grandmother, not the purring temptress. And the effect they have on me is comparable to how my sons effect me. Dang it. Can't even while away the hours behind that desk awash in arousal. (None that they've caused anyway.) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Anyway, it's what goes on in our heads that makes the confidence level flow, isn't it? Others' reactions to all that is lagniappe.
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*(We had planned, if needed, to share a bed at a Shipmeet. Get your mind out of the gutter.) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
(Honestly, Janine? I just didn't trust myself)
Ok, don't hit me, Sark, I'll stop.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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ananke
Shipmate
# 10059
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
In my defense, though my mention of sex might have been the most memorable, it was technically a response. And it was meant to suggest that most people have a fairly wide range of what they find physically attractive, such that if chubby chasers were denied rubenesque targets they may well still get by just fine with other body types.
That may be, but you didn't answer my question as to exactly what changes. I've gone from healthy to obese (by the BMI) and nowt has changed, so either you were going for very obese women, or didn't have the mechanics down pat.
As for the rest of it - it's nice that you might see my fat arse taking the elevtor instead of the stairs and that you may join my sister, my sibling's-in-law and random strangers in teling me I'd lose weight if I just 'walked a little more', when the reality is that I cannot physically walk up stairs at some points in the day. Chances are I'll have a walking stick by thirty (I'm 26) but since I don't have one now, and the scars aren't visible to the average shit-flinging monkey who comments on my weight, people, so kindly, feel that telling me I'm fat will work and magically make me lose it.
Judgements come from a point of stupidity where you assume you know something about the other person. Not every fat person is going to have a 'reason' but there's a good chance the chick you take to task for being fat is on chemo, or the bloke is actually a third of the size he was, or that the young kid has come off six months of bed rest and can't actually play sport. Chances are your 'help' is going to hurt and offend much more than just the commentary of 'you're fat' because I sure as fuck HATE being reminded of the fact I'll never ever ever be able to play sport, ever be able to kick ball with my kids, or even spend more than a day walking around sight seeing. I know I'm fat, you can tell me that til the cows come home (where I can drink their delicious full fat milk and chew on deliciously marbled steak...) because I don't really care about that. I do care about the constant reminder that I'm disabled and the average moron is too rude and too stupid to deal with that.
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...and I bear witness, this grace, this prayer so long forgotten.
A Perfect Circle - Magdalena
Posts: 617 | From: australia | Registered: Aug 2005
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Rat
Ship's Rat
# 3373
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
In my defense, though my mention of sex might have been the most memorable, it was technically a response. And it was meant to suggest that most people have a fairly wide range of what they find physically attractive, such that if chubby chasers were denied rubenesque targets they may well still get by just fine with other body types.
I'm sorry, but that is not what you said at all. You said:
quote:
Indeed, I suspect that most who proclaim to have high regard for blobular shapes are going to have a pretty high correlation with those who have little hope of attracting anything else.
Given that nearly every woman alive (probably including Nicole whatserface) considers herself to have a blobular shape, and worries about it, what you actually said was 'Your partner says he fancies you, but he's lying and would swap you for a thin bitch in a minute given the chance. Ha, loser! Oh and you're shit in bed as well.'.
Yes, those of us with baby tummies may be oversensitive. But really, if you worry about being cast in a callous role, maybe you should reconsider statements that are guaranteed to strike a personal nerve with practically every woman on the planet.
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It's a matter of food and available blood. If motherhood is sacred, put your money where your mouth is. Only then can you expect the coming down to the wrecked & shimmering earth of that miracle you sing about. [Margaret Atwood]
Posts: 5285 | From: A dour region for dour folk | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
You're right, that was what he said.
RooK, she's right. If you are going to fling poo around , don't act all shocked when it lands on someone.
I have to hand it to you, though you seem like you are at least trying to listen, now. Part of my irritation was a general one I have been having, in all areas of my life, regarding people who express their opinions with a bullhorn, then clutch their little hearts and dab their little eyes with a lavendar-scented hankie when somebody dares call them on it. Why is people who have the boldness and brashness to open up a rhetorical tommygun on people in the interests of "Being brutally honest" are usually the people who crumple into a heap if you develop an opinion about their technique?
Ego is ego, RooK. Everybody has one. I see evidence that you are concerned about yours right now-- that is you are concerned about how you are being percieved-- why can't you therefore understand the effect of your words on the egos of others?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Oh, and your inbox is full.
Don't worry, I was going to say something nice.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Persephone Hazard
Ship's Wench
# 4648
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Posted
I think weight has surprisingly little to do with sexual attraction. I am not the thinnest woman in the universe. Neither am I enormous. I know that I'm going to get shot down in flames for saying this, but I don't think I look as big as I am. The men who find me attractive are not just men who say they find fat women attractive.
There's a photograph of me in my profile. It's not a professional photo or anything, it was taken by a friend in a nightclub. I don't think I look enormous or ugly.
I'm aware that Nicole Richie is an extreme, but there are also women in the media who are considered to be 'chubby' who are in fact underweight or very near it. The world's perception of what is attractive is beyond fucked up.
I only know one man who says that he prefers skinny women, and he's insane in all sorts of ways. It's all just bullshit.
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A picture is worth a thousand words, but it's a lot easier to make up a thousand words than one decent picture. - ken.
Posts: 1645 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
"I don't think I look as big as I am" is not a flameworthy statement. Media-fed ideals shift, society-held ideals shift, one's own inner estimations of one's looks shift. The whole mess is about as rigid as an amoeba.
All my life, if the subject of my weight has been in a conversation, I've gotten reactions like "Wow, there's no way you weigh that much." We live with the material things and make our way through them every day, all the while navigating by shifting perception.
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Persephone Hazard:
I think weight has surprisingly little to do with sexual attraction. I am not the thinnest woman in the universe. Neither am I enormous. I know that I'm going to get shot down in flames for saying this, but I don't think I look as big as I am. The men who find me attractive are not just men who say they find fat women attractive.
There's a photograph of me in my profile. It's not a professional photo or anything, it was taken by a friend in a nightclub. I don't think I look enormous or ugly.
I'm aware that Nicole Richie is an extreme, but there are also women in the media who are considered to be 'chubby' who are in fact underweight or very near it. The world's perception of what is attractive is beyond fucked up.
I only know one man who says that he prefers skinny women, and he's insane in all sorts of ways. It's all just bullshit.
I think I am in the same boat as you, Persephone; if you saw the number on the scale you'd gasp, but my mother blessed me with her frame, so I carry it fairly well. That and strategic dressing helps a lot.(Although fuck if I ever wear a girdle again.)
My weight is my own fault, sure, but it is a result of mistakes I made ten fucking years ago, with the help of a bad marriage,beer and two stupid doctors who prescribed me steroids at the same time without warning me about the side effects. I spent the last two years of my marriage using food and alcohol to numb myself out. And it took it's toll. I'm just lucky that the booze didn't get out of hand.
I really don't want to think I will spend the rest of my life-- literally, I'm 38, my metabolism ain't going to snap back to age 20-- apying for mistakes I amde 10 years ago. Paying as far as the kind of respect I get, the kind of assumptions people make about me, the kind of man I should "settle for"
I was thinking this morning about this thread, and the chubby object d'crush I keep referring to. The idea that any woman would be "settling" for him "because they can't do any better"
is preposterous. He's kind, he's funny, he's creative and kind of carries this innate sensuality that makes a woman wonder what kind of kisser he is. He's also a little squirrley and neurotic, so it's not just bold self-confidence that carries him off. If you go by straight biological cues, he's pretty average. It's how he uses his face, hands, eyes, spirit that makes him beautiful.
And he's pretty severely overweight.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
This is kind of related. But I watched a new Scooby-doo cartoon today and Velma looks as if she's lost about 45lbs. She has a neck and a waist and was showing thigh.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
See, that just ain't right.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
But you see Thelma is the one who looked fit and healthy (and competent) to me all these years. Not her fault that they put her in a chunky sweater so she looked neckless.
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
I thought she was Velma. What do I know.
Ruh-roh!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
Hang on -- having a weirded-out moment -- I've a friend named Velma and sort of misfiled my Scooby Doo details...
Which is it?
(intoning deep serious voice)
Let Us Google...
OK, you've got it, my brainquirk.
Velma was always the better-looking all around, over Daphne, to me. Of course Freddie was prettier than both of them.
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
This post is pent up lecture. Nothing to do with Janine's previous post...or Kelly's but anyway...
If you take somebody and isolate them, forcing them to starve, yes, they will lose weight. And so yes, eating less works. We ALL FREAKING AGREE WITH THAT. And if you work out, ah, that makes you burn calories. And the more muscle you build, the more calories you burn.
Now that we got that across, I will explain something. I have PCOS. It makes losing weight harder for me than somebody who does not. I have to take 2 medications. If I don't take them, I don't lose weight as well. I have managed in some years to lose about 40 lbs. since 2001 and have kept it off. I am just tired of low-carbing and having to work out all the time. That is the honest truth.
I went out to coffee lately with a guy who is like 6'4" or something and builds a house all the time, besides working a normal job. He looks like he is getting a little skinner than he ought to be but he has some muscles. And he laughed and made fun of what I ordered "is that all you are eating?" I dunno but maybe he has noticed me chowing down, or assumes cuz I am zaftig I chow down 24/7. But the said truth is I don't! And I felt like saying "You know, I am onl 5'7" and I don't build a house...I only work out a few times a week...if that...and I have a lot more fat than you...so yes, I need less calories than you do!" I ended up canceling the small tart order and getting a large brownie. The dude ended up ordering 2 large breakfast treats and he ate them before I finished my brownie.
So maybe somebody should stick me on a desert island with no gin and let me just lose weight slowing, spearing a few fishes to eat.
But I might end up with lots of sagging skin if I lose too fast. I actually have a friend who ended up with some saggy skin. It frightened me so much I actually monitor any weightloss with an eagle eye...
I am though under orders to lose 20 lbs. by my endo doctor. by freaking april! (when I see him next) I won't say all he said that day but it was weird. A really weird office visit
So let me say that I am beyond getting all worked up over comments. I do have to lose weight. But it is a health issue due to my PCOS condition. I don't want to end up screwing up my blood tests...and then my body freaking out again, I stop ovulating and having periods that last more than 5 months ago. And feeling like crap.
For those who are upset because you think I am putting myself down when I call myself fat (pm's I receive and comments on my blog), think again. I don't think being fat is a huge crime. And I think I look so good, it is a crime though. But I will start using the word zaftig from now on since Kelly reminded me of it.
[ 07. January 2007, 05:49: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ananke:
That may be, but you didn't answer my question as to exactly what changes. I've gone from healthy to obese (by the BMI) and nowt has changed, so either you were going for very obese women, or didn't have the mechanics down pat.
I didn't explain in graphic detail what the differences were? Does this look like T'n'T to you? Let me just mention these: We could could have vigorous penetrative sex while I was driving. More generally, though, was the fact that I could support her entire weight with one arm. This will have to be sufficient for even your plainly meagre imagination.
quote:
Judgements come from a point of stupidity where you assume you know something about the other person. Not every fat person is going to have a 'reason' but there's a good chance the chick you take to task for being fat is on chemo, or the bloke is actually a third of the size he was, or that the young kid has come off six months of bed rest and can't actually play sport. Chances are your 'help' is going to hurt and offend much more than just the commentary of 'you're fat' because I sure as fuck HATE being reminded of the fact I'll never ever ever be able to play sport, ever be able to kick ball with my kids, or even spend more than a day walking around sight seeing. I know I'm fat, you can tell me that til the cows come home (where I can drink their delicious full fat milk and chew on deliciously marbled steak...) because I don't really care about that. I do care about the constant reminder that I'm disabled and the average moron is too rude and too stupid to deal with that.
I think I'm going to rant about this later (meaning, tomorrow - maybe). But, for now, let me assure you that I don't try to "help" anybody. I don't remind anybody of anything. I don't treat anybody differently. I do, however, see people around me, and wonder what it's like to be them and think about what I see. And, for reasons I can't readily justify to myself right now, I honestly consider these thoughts publicly on this bulletin board.
quote:
Originally posted by Iole Nui:
I'm sorry, but that is not what you said at all. You said: quote:
Indeed, I suspect that most who proclaim to have high regard for blobular shapes are going to have a pretty high correlation with those who have little hope of attracting anything else.
Indeed I did. And I deserve some wrath for it.
Especially since I think that I still stand by it. What can I say? I'm a craven cynic, with a low opinion of humanity.
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh, and your inbox is full.
Mine? That's unpossible!
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
Good thing not all men agree with you. And some of them are pretty hot men that don't. I know from experience.
[edited to carefully consider woulds after kahlua and milk drink mixtures I had tonight. Dang, that party is over and the road is long.]
[ 07. January 2007, 06:12: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yep, I want a guy who thinks my lovely singing voice, my massage talents, and my ability to create riotous laughter wherever I go-- whether I intend it or not-- is more valuable than whether or not I can be a sexual Nautilus machine.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Sounds like you're looking for a Sydney Anglican priest.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I don't get the connection.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764
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Posted
I see that I have not been the only one drinking here tonight*. I might not have posted all that in my longish post...but it is too late. RooK got revenge by describing his sexual experience.
All I can say is Gort*, if you are saying that all men look for is a sex toy, I would have to say that you are terribly wrong. Not all men are RooK and also not all men are you.
*the other one drinking...
[ 07. January 2007, 07:00: Message edited by: duchess ]
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Actually, I'm looking for an Alan Cresswell.
No offense, Flausa, I mean that strictly in terms of character template. And intelligence level.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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AdamPater
Sacristan of the LavaLamp
# 4431
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Sounds like you're looking for a Sydney Anglican priest.
No, she's looking for someone looking for her, rather than a wanker in search of a sex-aid. And the SA shot is way wide too.
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Put not your trust in princes.
Posts: 4894 | From: On the left of the big pink bit. | Registered: Apr 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
<Thanks, AP>
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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A Feminine Force
Ship's Onager
# 7812
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Posted
Hey Janine,
Having met you in person, I have to say you exude the kind of beauty, confidence, sex appeal and radiance that is the genuine article. Girls in lingerie catalogs try to imitate it, but it can't be manufactured, pretended, or duplicated. Either you have "it" or you don't. They don't, you do.
I can understand a beauty ideal of slenderness because it communicates the desirable feminine traits of vulnerability, youth and delicacy. Kate Moss' neo-Twiggy, heroin-chic "waif" look communicates this kind of "if-I-wasn't-already-broken-you-could-break-me-in-half" kind of message. It's hard to say what women or men find attractive about this kind of image. I don't know, myself.
As an aside rant, could the fashion industry PUH-LEEEUUUZZZ QUIT designing their wares for 12 year old mannequins made-up to look like 20 year olds??? Some of these girls have not even begun to grow their boobs fer chrissake, and they are wearing clothes they won't be able to afford until they are 40 but only look good on you until you're 20.
FF
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C2C - The Cure for What Ails Ya?
Posts: 2115 | From: Kingdom of Heaven | Registered: Jul 2004
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