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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Daily Offices Redux
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
Scott, I visited the C of J once whilst vacationing at Cape Cod. This gets us into a tangent, but let's just say they were less than warm when I met a few of them face to face. To keep us somewhat on topic, I doubt an actual in-person inquiry about the offices would have met with a more friendly response. Wiki them for more.
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simwel:
Some, most, of us say a morning and evening office?
I have been used Celebrating Daily Prayer for some time, and I wonder who out there is using what and why
Welcome, simwel, to this repository of the collective knowledge (and lack thereof) of the Daily Office.
We are always striving to find the "perfect" breviary, which explains jlg's sage advice on the thread you started earlier.
Right now, I'm using The Mundelein Psalter, because it is the newest breviary in my collection. I go back and forth, usually sticking with a book for one full Psalm-cycle, or until I decide to do something different.
Oh, by the way, don't try to read all of the pages of the Daily Offices threads. The search function is helpful, and if you are looking for something specific, we can perhaps link you over.
[ 21. June 2007, 23:02: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
I just scored a copy of the 1986 reprint of the 1981 edition of the DAILY OFFICE SSF, which, if I understand correctly, is the last edition of the office to be published before it was revised and consequently became the basis for CELEBRATING COMMON PRAYER. It is a fine office: well organized, expanded from the anemic ASB office, well balanced between contemporary idiom and traditional reverence and stateliness*, and possessed of just enough office hymns, versicles, and Gospel canticle antiphons to satisfy an Anglican of a Catholic disposition without sacrificing its sense of Franciscan simplicity. It also features two Antiphons of the BVM attributed to S. Francis himself.
If anyone in the UK has a copy of this edition (the pre-CCP edition) lying around and wouldn't mind parting with it, I would gladly make a deal with you via PM.
* aside from a translation of Te Deum Laudamus that is actually worse than its US BCP 1979 Rite II counterpart.
[ 22. June 2007, 13:19: Message edited by: lukacs ]
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lukacs:
aside from a translation of Te Deum Laudamus that is actually worse than its US BCP 1979 Rite II counterpart.
Well, the 1979 BCP doesn't deserve all the blame; the Te Deum was one of the ICEL texts and appeared first in the RC Liturgy of the Hours. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
Duly noted, Scott!
Is anyone familiar enough with the old version of DAILY OFFICE SSF and could tell me how much it differs from the version issued as one edition of CELEBRATING COMMON PRAYER?
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
Just ordered a copy of the 1963 edition of Paul Hartzell's Prayer Book Office in mint condition from the Abebooks.com website.
I will pay handsomely for it, but it will be worth it!!!
There is a similar copy currently on eBay, but I have just been outbid, and would probably end up paying even more than I will for the Abebooks.com copy if I kept bidding on it.
Someone else might care to have a go, though!!!
Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
The 1963 PBO is mine!! It has been shipped and the price added onto my credit card!!! I'm paying as much for it as I paid for my copy of Fr Whatton's Priest's Companion last year.
Yes, breviary collecting is an expensive business!!! I envy Scott who got his copy at a bargain price.
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David Goode
Shipmate
# 9224
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
The 1963 PBO is mine!! It has been shipped and the price added onto my credit card!!!
That was a result, then, wasn't it. Every time I use mine, they take money away from me not add it on.
Posts: 654 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Mar 2005
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
David Goode wrote:-
quote:
That was a result, then, wasn't it. Every time I use mine, they take money away from me not add it on.
If only Visa did work that way!!!!!!
Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
I have often wished that either Lancelot Andrewes Press or the Anglican Parishes Association (anglicanbooks.com) would undertake to reprint Fr. Hartzell's PBO. I imagine it would be a brisk seller.
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Patrick
Shipmate
# 305
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Posted
I had a while back queried Launcelot Andrewes Press about republishing the Hartzell Prayer Book Office. One of the problems would be which version of the book. The first printings were pretty much Sarum based, but by the time of the 1963 edition, Fr. Hartzell was incorporating more continental, sometimes Roman material. Even in these last editions, Fr. Hartzell's theories were always interesting and never as extremely idiosyncratic as Howard Galley. Nevertheless, by the time the last edition of the book was in print, the reader was being instructed in the need for a World Calendar (wherein Pascha would always be celebrated on the same claendar day every year) and traditional observances, like the "gesimas" and ancient features like First Vespers were being underplayed. The latter printings gave two intriguing schemes for a bi-weekly recitation of the Psalter, provision for the lesser hours and directions for reciting Evensong and Mattins "of one lesson", with the second lesson being assigned to Compline and to a form of Lauds. The earlier printings had provided Compline as well as the Offices from the 1549 Prayer Book. I am fortunate to have one of the earlier printings bound up with the KJB. When Fr. Harzell reposed, the bulk of his books wound up in the hands of Fr. Donald Garfield, sometime Rector of St. Mary the Virgin, NYC, who generously permitted me to take whatever I found to be of interest. As a result, among other things, I acquired the full rite for the Consecration of a Boy Bishop, as well as the Rite for the Coronation of a (British) Monarch! Memory Eternal!
Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
Fr Hartzell's PBO is to my mind the sort of office book which should be authorised for use by Anglican Use RC communities in the USA.
It would be far more portable than the current bulky Book of Divine Worship!
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
Even in these last editions, Fr. Hartzell's theories were always interesting and never as extremely idiosyncratic as Howard Galley.
Which of Galley's theories do you consider extremely idiosyncratic?
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Patrick
Shipmate
# 305
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Posted
I should say "editorial practices" rather than "theories". Off the top of the old head, Captain Galley (Church Army) borrowed antiphons from all sorts of sources, composed others anew and omitted beautiful features of the traditional office like the fine old Office Hymns (at least in his first edition, which is the one I used). In all honesty, I do not like a cafeteria approach: something from Rome, something from Sarum, something from Gallican usage. There are enough organically developed offices, East and West, centuries old, tested by communities at prayer, that I do not feel sufficently attracted or nourished by something drawn up by a committee (like the LOTH, as Stanislaus Campbell uncovers its genesis) much less by a single composer, no matter how broad his reading or interesting his tastes.
Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
Patrick--given that assessment, what is your opinion of the ENGLISH OFFICE reprinted by Canterbury Press? Also too idiosyncratic?
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
I often think it was a pity that an augmented version of the Scottish Prayer Book of 1929 was never produced.
This might have been along the lines of Fr Hartzell's Prayer Book Office and the Knott and Sons English Office. It could have been called The Scottish Office, only that sounds a bit political!
Posts: 309 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Patrick
Shipmate
# 305
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Posted
The English Office, IMHO, is a fine supplement to the Prayer Book offices, in the same league as Fr. Hartzell's work. As far as I know, all the liturgical supplementation in that book comes from traditional sources, only not quite as Sarum as the Prayer Book Office. The rubrics are in conformity with Breviary reforms that occured just before Vatican II, so some of my favorite practices (like keeping Octaves) are not stipulated. But that is minor, just as is the absence of the 1922 lectionary. Both defects are easy to remedy. As you know, the English Office only gives one Office Hymn for Matins, reflective of what is provided in the English Hymnal, whereas Fr. Hartzell provides both the Matins hymn and that for Lauds. Fr. Hartzell also supplies the ancient "Anthem", to be sung after the collects at Mattins and Evensong. However, the major advantage of The English Office is a full provision for the traditional (not newly composed)antiphons for the Psalms during the non-festal seasons. Fr. Hatzell supplies only a triple Alleluia for ferias and Sundays outside the seasons of Advent/Christmas/Epiphany, Lent/Passiontide, and Paschaltide/Ascensiontide/Pentecost&Trinity weeks. Unlike the English Office, which relies upon the Sunday collect, Fr. Hartzell also gives the full texts for all the collects (morning and evening) for the Lenten/Passiontide ferias. Both the English Office and the Prayer Book Office place the hymn at the historically proper place in the offices: before the Gospel Canticle, where it marks the beginning of the cathedral part of the rite as opposed to the monastic Psalmody. This was St. Benedict's principle in his placement of the office hymn in his Rule. And, like the BCP itself, both the English Office and the Prayer Book Office are substantially grounded in monastic daily prayer.
Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
If anyone is still interested in bidding, the 1963 edition of Fr Hartzell's Prayer Book Office currently on eBay still has five hours to go.
The current price is £174!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DIVINE OFFICE
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
I've had some bad luck and some good luck.
I received my copy of The Prayer Book Office this morning. The only problem is, it wasn't Fr Hartzell's edition of 1963; it's Howard Galley's second edition with the additional material, which I wanted anyway!!!
Abebooks had got the details slightly wrong.
It's in almost mint condition with a lovely leather cover and gold edging to the pages, so I'll just keep it. I've now got the first and second editions of Howard Galley's work, so I'll just keep my eyes peeled for an edition by Fr Harzell.
I believe the copy on eBay eventually sold for nearly £200!!!!
DIVINE OFFICE
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catholicedinburgh
Apprentice
# 12668
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Posted
Oh Joy. My Monastic Diurnal and Monastic Diurnal Noted arrived from America today. Not bad considering I only ordered it last Thursday night.
The Diurnal is smaller than I anticipated, but this is more than made up for by the size of the MDNoted! Now all I have to do is work out where we are in the year, get all the ribbons sorted and away I go
Posts: 22 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: May 2007
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catholicedinburgh
Apprentice
# 12668
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Posted
lukacs
Thanks for this link, have requested to join - it will be useful as I settle in to the book
Posts: 22 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: May 2007
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
I've been using the office for a while now and have started trying to combine my times of study with the office (I believe this is called the 'desert' model of doing the office) - using my readings as the readings in the office - and then spending an extended time studying before going into the time of prayer. I am finding it quite difficult to spend extended times of study and retain the prayer element - it sometimes seems to be a big shift perceptually between the two.
Should I just accept this and move on, or are there tips to get around this?
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
I've been using the office for a while now and have started trying to combine my times of study with the office (I believe this is called the 'desert' model of doing the office) - using my readings as the readings in the office - and then spending an extended time studying before going into the time of prayer. I am finding it quite difficult to spend extended times of study and retain the prayer element - it sometimes seems to be a big shift perceptually between the two.
Should I just accept this and move on, or are there tips to get around this?
I used to have this problem, but it doesn't really bother me anymore. A couple of things have helped me out--
- Inserting a canticle or responsory after each reading
- Limiting the readings done within the offices (and doing the others either before or after
- Adding extra offices and dividing up the readings!
- Watching the time (until you get your timing down)--I try to balance into three equal chunks: Opening/Psalms, Readings, Prayers--but to each his/her own. I don't clock-watch anymore, by the way. It is just a feeling.
Since you're doing readings other than the office lectionary, I think you just have to go with what works for you. For a while, I had a hard time with the 2-Year Daily Office Lectionary because the readings were too long for me, so I used the 2-Year Eucharistic Lectionary instead.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Ignatius' Acolyte
Shipmate
# 12426
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
I've been using the office for a while now and have started trying to combine my times of study with the office (I believe this is called the 'desert' model of doing the office) - using my readings as the readings in the office - and then spending an extended time studying before going into the time of prayer. I am finding it quite difficult to spend extended times of study and retain the prayer element - it sometimes seems to be a big shift perceptually between the two.
Should I just accept this and move on, or are there tips to get around this?
I used to have this problem, but it doesn't really bother me anymore. A couple of things have helped me out--
- Inserting a canticle or responsory after each reading
- Limiting the readings done within the offices (and doing the others either before or after
- Adding extra offices and dividing up the readings!
- Watching the time (until you get your timing down)--I try to balance into three equal chunks: Opening/Psalms, Readings, Prayers--but to each his/her own. I don't clock-watch anymore, by the way. It is just a feeling.
Since you're doing readings other than the office lectionary, I think you just have to go with what works for you. For a while, I had a hard time with the 2-Year Daily Office Lectionary because the readings were too long for me, so I used the 2-Year Eucharistic Lectionary instead.
That would be a good idea, Martin, for those of us RCs who don't go to daily Mass. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
(Of course, I suspect that we follow a more primitive custom, but then it is no longer the practice that people take home the Body for daily consumption before breakfast!)
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Be a blessing.
Posts: 427 | From: Quezon City, the Philippines | Registered: Mar 2007
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Divine Office
Shipmate
# 10558
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Posted
Sorry to keep going on about it, but my new copy of Galley's PBO is that of 1994, the same one that another contributor came across by chance in a diocesan book store some time ago. I was just checking through the previous postings.
I paid a good deal more for it than 55 Dollars, though!!!!!
DIVINE OFFICE
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
Sorry to keep going on about it, but my new copy of Galley's PBO is that of 1994...
We're quite accustomed to bragging!
PostDenom: Attending a daily mass is, unfortunately, not possible for me. The lections (or, gasp, EWTN) are about as close as I can come.
[ 04. July 2007, 22:44: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
Has anyone ever tried to say the BCP offices according to the Churchman's Ordo Kalendar, either by simply using the proper collects for the day from the Anglican Missal or going all out and plugging in the antiphons, hymns, versicles, and collects proper to the day, in the manner of the English Office, but taken from the Anglican Breviary?
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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DitzySpike
Shipmate
# 1540
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Posted
There's a copy of the 'Book of Prayer' (the 1975 Liturgical Press version of the Liturgy of the Hours)going for an unusually low price at a remaining 19 hours. On eBay.
Posts: 498 | From: Singapore | Registered: Oct 2001
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lukacs:
Has anyone ever tried to say the BCP offices according to the Churchman's Ordo Kalendar, either by simply using the proper collects for the day from the Anglican Missal or going all out and plugging in the antiphons, hymns, versicles, and collects proper to the day, in the manner of the English Office, but taken from the Anglican Breviary?
Haven't done this, but a number of folks in our church do use the Churchman's Ordo as a basis for BCP daily prayer. It makes for a lot of feasts. To have any semblance of sticking with the daily lectionary, you'll need to treat a lot of them as 'Third Class', i.e. ferial psalms and antiphons, with additions to MP or EP post readings.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
Special "MP Madness" daily offices redux post: Those of you who are excited at the prospect of a liberalized use of the Roman Breviary according to the 1960 rubrics may find the following of interest:
http://tinyurl.com/36tqk6
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
A number of folks in our church do use the Churchman's Ordo as a basis for BCP daily prayer. It makes for a lot of feasts. To have any semblance of sticking with the daily lectionary, you'll need to treat a lot of them as 'Third Class', i.e. ferial psalms and antiphons, with additions to MP or EP post readings.
You're absolutely right. After some consultation with a trusted office advisor, I decided to follow the Simplified Kalendar instead.
[ 09. July 2007, 16:33: Message edited by: lukacs ]
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Haven't done this, but a number of folks in our church do use the Churchman's Ordo as a basis for BCP daily prayer. It makes for a lot of feasts. To have any semblance of sticking with the daily lectionary, you'll need to treat a lot of them as 'Third Class', i.e. ferial psalms and antiphons, with additions to MP or EP post readings.
In our sacristy at Ascension, Chicago, there's the Churchman's Ordo Kalendar (the enhanced Anglo-Catholic version with added non-BCP and non-LFF feasts in brackets, like Sacred Heart), but this is used more by the sacristans (to determine liturgical colors and mark the books) for Mass than by Office officiants. The office is affected only by BCP holy days for which proper psalms and lessons are given in the office lectionary. If it's a lesser feast like William Laud or Julian of Norwich, the office will be ferial, except at Evening Prayer the officiant may choose to read the lesson from They Still Speak that applies to the commemoration. The collect and lessons of the lesser feast are used at Mass.
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PD
Shipmate
# 12436
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Posted
I have to confession to going through lengthy bouts of reading the "Anglican Breviary" according to the 1960 rubrics, so the liberalization of the use oif the 1960 Breviary in the Roman Church kind of brightened my day.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Br. Scapular
Apprentice
# 10820
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Posted
I'm not a very regular reader of SoF, alas, but when I do I always try to catch up on what's new in the Daily Office thread.
As a former Benedictine monk (Anglican), I incorporate something of St. Benedict's scheme of prayer into my Daily Office, and as somewhat of a bibliophile, I was plesantly surprised to discover that Prince of Peace Abbey in Oceanside, California, is selling some of its older liturgical volumes. I placed an order, asked a couple of questions, and was even emailed photos of a title-page and sample page to help me decide about one item.
The list is available by clicking through on the "News" link from the Abbey's website. It seems to be kept up to date, as they no longer list having a four-volume Breviarium Monasticum (sorry, I got the only Aestiva, I guess). Other complete sets of that work are still available in two-volume sets, however, as is the Antiphonale Monasticum (for those of you who chant the office or are musically inclined), and various other liturgical works.
I can't imagine any group of folks who might be more interested in this sale that my fellow Daily Office thread readers, so I wanted to post the information for you. I don't think one finds monastic (OSB) liturgical books coming onto the open market often.
Best wishes, and thank you all for the highly informative, and civilized, conversation that you keep running on this thread!
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Church is the place where, when you have to go there, They have to take you in. -apologies to Robert Frost, (Death of the Hired Man)
Posts: 10 | From: N America | Registered: Dec 2005
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Br. Scapular:
I'm not a very regular reader of SoF, alas, but when I do I always try to catch up on what's new in the Daily Office thread.
Welcome, Br. Scapular, and ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) for the link to Oceanside's books for sale. I'm contemplating the Saint Meinrad vespers psalter but may opt to be happy with a great two-volume Breviarium Monasticum and separate psalter volume that I got some years ago via eBay from a convent whose nuns took exquisite care of the books. They had been covered with handmade dust jackets that kept dirt and oils off the covers; they're practically in new condition, although the paper seems like it won't last forever.
What I would absolutely love is for a monastery to publish a new monastic breviary that is a complete English outworking of a schema of the Thesaurus Liturgiae Horarum Monasticae. There are German books of Schema B, but I haven't seen an English one. I'm an oblate of Saint Meinrad Archabbey, and its de facto breviary comprises several seasonal volumes of chant materials, the Grail psalter, the NRSV Bible, a patristic/commentary lectionary selected by one of the monks, and the Worship III hymnal, with the Archabbey's own approved psalter schema.
I'd love a Year A breviary, perhaps in four volumes (the German one I had and stupidly sold was three volumes plus a four-volume lectionary).
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Ignatius' Acolyte
Shipmate
# 12426
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Br. Scapular:
I'm not a very regular reader of SoF, alas, but when I do I always try to catch up on what's new in the Daily Office thread.
As a former Benedictine monk (Anglican), I incorporate something of St. Benedict's scheme of prayer into my Daily Office, and as somewhat of a bibliophile, I was plesantly surprised to discover that Prince of Peace Abbey in Oceanside, California, is selling some of its older liturgical volumes. I placed an order, asked a couple of questions, and was even emailed photos of a title-page and sample page to help me decide about one item.
The list is available by clicking through on the "News" link from the Abbey's website. It seems to be kept up to date, as they no longer list having a four-volume Breviarium Monasticum (sorry, I got the only Aestiva, I guess). Other complete sets of that work are still available in two-volume sets, however, as is the Antiphonale Monasticum (for those of you who chant the office or are musically inclined), and various other liturgical works.
I can't imagine any group of folks who might be more interested in this sale that my fellow Daily Office thread readers, so I wanted to post the information for you. I don't think one finds monastic (OSB) liturgical books coming onto the open market often.
Best wishes, and thank you all for the highly informative, and civilized, conversation that you keep running on this thread!
Oh yes, I know about that. I know a Shipmate around here who bought copies of a bilingual Missal (1964) from them, thus managing to beat a lot of excited MP types!
By the way, I do wonder if there are similar clearance sales going on within Anglican circles.
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Be a blessing.
Posts: 427 | From: Quezon City, the Philippines | Registered: Mar 2007
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
I have a question concerning the missing "Amen" at the end of the Psalm-prayer in the Commn Worship: Daily Prayer.,
When praying the prayer on line or with the book, most people with me don't seem to want to say "Amen" because it isn't printed.
What to do? I assume the "Amen" isn't printed because the pray is optional, but I find it hard for to keep bitten Anglicans tongues at the phrase "through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Do you or anyone you know routinely add or leave omitted the "Amen" at the end of CW:DP psalm-prayer?
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
Anyone ever try using the LitPress BENEDICTINE DAILY PRAYER with a liturgical "booster" like S. DUNSTAN'S PLAINSONG PSALTER? If so, did it make it bearable or did the responsories still sink the endeavor?
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
I have copied this from another thread, since this would seem to be the proper place for it:
quote:
Originally posted by GreyFace
Posted 17 July, 2007 14:15
An update and a few vaguely related questions, which might be better on another thread but this one's not being used any more [Biased]
I went down the route of acquiring a copy of Exciting Holiness and in a fit a financial slackness decided to upgrade my Office book from CCP Pocket Edition to Comic Worship Daily Prayer. I'm now a bit stuck as to how to weld the two together along with the Lectionary to produce something that's not a bit of a mess.
For those who aren't familiar with CWDP you have Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer following the pattern of CCP, and you have Daily Prayer and Night Prayer. Various combinations are suggested, such as
1. MP and EP
2. DP and NP
3. MP, DP as Midday Prayer, EP, NP
It gets worse. There are several schemes suggested for the psalmody. If using MP and EP, you can follow the Lectionary in full and use the shorter cycles or short responsorials for DP and NP. Or you can do it the other way round.
Then there's the readings. You can follow the full Lectionary for MP and EP, or you can pick strands, or you can make it up as you go along.
Add in Exciting Holiness - do you replace the psalmody from the lectionary with the EH ones? What about the readings and collects? How do you handle it when only some readings are given? Is there a rule for distinguishing between Principal Feasts, Festivals, Lesser Festivals and Commemorations? And so on.
Here's my first attempt at working it out, which I present in the hope of constructive criticism. Much as I'd like to do the lot, I haven't got time so I need to be a bit selective.
Morning Prayer:
Brief life of the Saint from EH if given.
Bold-face psalm from Lectionary.
One of the readings from Lectionary.
Collect from CWDP propers.
Principal Feasts and Festivals: One extra reading from EH. Gloria in Excelsis before Conclusion outside Advent/Lent.
Evening Prayer:
Bold-face psalm from Lectionary.
One of the readings from Lectionary.
Collect from CWDP propers.
Principal Feasts and Festivals: One extra reading from EH. Nunc Dimittis before Conclusion outside Advent/Lent.
Compline: used as occasional alternative to EP.
As written in CWDP using seasonal and commons variations
Does that all look fairly sensible?
Singing the psalms
Supplementary question. I'd like to chant the psalms using Common Worship texts. The only resource I have is the Parish Psalter which uses the Coverdale texts and the CW Psalter isn't pointed. Any suggestions?
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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Extol
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# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Office:
Got a copy of the new enlarged Lauds and Vespers today by Fr Peter Stravinskas which is published by Newman House Press. It contains Morning and Evening Prayer in Latin from the Liturgia Horarum with a parallel English translation (including some good translations of the office hymns) for Ordinary Time, the Christmas season, Advent, Lent, Holy Week and the Easter Season, along with a few major feasts such as The Sacred Heart and Christ the King.
It does not, however, have the propers for all of the remaining feasts and memorials in the Roman calendar. Hopefully a second volume may appear in due course with these, as well as perhaps the orders for the Office of Readings, Prayer during the Day and Compline.
DIVINE OFFICE
Divine Office, do you still use this volume, and if so, do you supplement Lauds and Vespers with materials for feasts and memorials?
Posts: 1287 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2006
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GreyFace
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# 4682
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Posted
Actually, I'll take the second part of my post to a new thread.
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lukacs:
Anyone ever try using the LitPress BENEDICTINE DAILY PRAYER with a liturgical "booster" like S. DUNSTAN'S PLAINSONG PSALTER? If so, did it make it bearable or did the responsories still sink the endeavor?
I've done things like this, and they help, but the next day I'm usually loath to try to repeat the experience, as I forget what I did, and the whole exercise violates my preference for a one-book Office. I should add that I do violate that regularly, though.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Olaf
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# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
...the whole exercise violates my preference for a one-book Office. I should add that I do violate that regularly, though.
Having a one-book Office is a dream of mine. I am currently on a four-book Office right now!
I guess I'll have to start on my own (the project that is ever planned and never done).
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Oblatus
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# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Having a one-book Office is a dream of mine. I am currently on a four-book Office right now!
I guess I'll have to start on my own (the project that is ever planned and never done).
Four books at a time, so you have to use them all in a day? Or four seasonal books, one at a time? I still count the latter as a one-book office.
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Manipled Mutineer
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# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Having a one-book Office is a dream of mine. I am currently on a four-book Office right now!
I guess I'll have to start on my own (the project that is ever planned and never done).
Four books at a time, so you have to use them all in a day? Or four seasonal books, one at a time? I still count the latter as a one-book office.
Exactly what I was wondering. I use an office which has three seasonal books, although I would arguably need another book - a Martyrology - to do things "properly."
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
Four books at a time, so you have to use them all in a day? Or four seasonal books, one at a time? I still count the latter as a one-book office.
The former, I'm afraid. I bought Daily Office Readings from the Early Church (based on a recommendation by a Shipmate who shall remain nameless), and it expanded my reading load.
[ 18. July 2007, 22:16: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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PD
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# 12436
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Posted
I have a copy of the 1963 Prayer Book Office and find it a bit frustrating. The main source of frustration is the awkward layout involving a great deal of page turning even on Ferias. There also seem to be a lot of typos - most easily detected, but others require some serious detective work to figure out what should be there. However, I like the two week psalter arrangement and the possibility of restoring the sevenfold pattern to the Office.
The English Office has a better - that is less confusing - layout, but the lack of the Lesser Hours it is a bit of a downer, as is the fact they give only one office hymn per service.
PD
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Roadkill on the Information Super Highway!
My Assorted Rantings - http://www.theoldhighchurchman.blogspot.com
Posts: 4431 | From: Between a Rock and a Hard Place | Registered: Mar 2007
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Mama Thomas
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# 10170
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Posted
Sorry for reposting this but it's likely to be buried. What does anyone advise: using an Amen in the psalm-prayer or just letting the prayer hang?
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
I have a question concerning the missing "Amen" at the end of the Psalm-prayer in the Commn Worship: Daily Prayer.,
When praying the prayer on line or with the book, most people with me don't seem to want to say "Amen" because it isn't printed.
What to do? I assume the "Amen" isn't printed because the pray is optional, but I find it hard for to keep bitten Anglicans tongues at the phrase "through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Do you or anyone you know routinely add or leave omitted the "Amen" at the end of CW:DP psalm-prayer?
Also, when using CW:DP I think everyone here knows it is customary to say the antiphon AFTER the gloria, but the printing of the CW:DP makes it much easier to say the final gloria after the last antiphon and psalm-prayer. Is a new custom emerging?
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All hearts are open, all desires known
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Olaf
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# 11804
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Posted
Mama Thomas, I don't see what purpose it would serve to omit the Amen at the end of a prayer that is structured to take one. In my humble opinion, any prayer like a Psalm prayer, which would be presidential in a corporate setting, should take an Amen as an assent by the assembly at the end.
As for the Gloria Patri, I'm surprised that it is even used together with the Psalm Prayer. When we started using Psalm Prayers, we stopped using the Gloria Patri at the end of the office Psalmody. It now goes Antiphon-Psalm-Antiphon-Psalm Prayer-Amen and then the cycle repeats itself if needed.
Our worship resource mentions that the Gloria Patri is specifically omitted because of the Christological nature of the Psalm Prayer (or something to that effect).
As for new customs emerging, I doubt this is the case. If it is, why should we let one person at the publishing house spoil all the fun? Say it the way it has been, just like the Introit of yesteryear.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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