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Source: (consider it) Thread: AS: Fertility Problems II
Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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Posting as Host:
Here is a nice, new thread for those interested in discussing the questions and concerns of the OP:
quote:
Originally posted by perceval:
It's terrible to want a child and not be able to give birth to one or father one.

How can our beliefs help us deal with this predicament?

It would be great if we could discuss this question with an open mind.

Some personal background:
I'm 29, and I've been trying to conceive a child since October 2001. Nobody knows why I'm failing.

I've stopped asking God for children who share my genes. Instead, I'm asking what I'm meant to be doing instead of giving birth, and I'm praying that S/He prepare me for whatever is in store for me. As an interesting side effect, I've also become allergic to any talk of "hope in Christ" and moved away from traditional Christianity.

This is how I'm dealing with my childlessness.

My partner refuses to acknowledge the problem as such; he's convinced that one day, we will have a house full of kids. That's how he deals with it.

How are you dealing with your fertility problems a s a Christian? How have you as Christians supported friends or family who couldn't conceive?
Do you have or witness crises of faith that are triggered by infertility?
[Votive]
percival

(P.S.: I consulted an admin before starting this thread. I hope this opening statement is OK.)

Grits
All Saints Host

[ 08. October 2007, 15:11: Message edited by: Alan Cresswell ]

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"The first of April is the day we remember what we are the other 364 days of the year." -- Mark Twain

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perceval
Shipmate
# 4742

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Even though I bow before Hostly authority, I would like to respectfully disagree with Grits. (I've also PMed her).

The old thread evolved into a safe space for infertile shipmates to discuss their predicament - sometimes with more reference to their beliefs, sometimes with less. It's important to grant shipmates with fertility problems that space on the ship, because often enough, their congregations just can't support them adequately. (For proof, see pages I-XX of the old thread.) But the Ship community can, and discussions of GP visits, IVF cycles, and :votive:s from shipmates wandering by are all part of that process of Christian support and love, and just as spiritual as theological discussions.

Infertility is a long journey, which is reflected by the thread, and I feel privileged to have been part of the journeys of Suusan, Bronwyn, Vikki Pollard's daughter, or Suze, to name but a few.

That said, starting a new incarnation was a good idea; 20 pages ARE very unwieldy. Would it be possible to rename this thread Fertility Problems II, by the way?

perceval

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Always look on the bright side of life.
***
It blogs
here

Posts: 272 | From: Edinburgh, Scotland | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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I have no problem with the discussion continuing as it is, as long as it remains a support thread for those dealing with infertility. Of course, all comments do not have to be of a spiritual nature, and I did not mean to imply that (although the original OP certainly does). There are certainly other helpful ways to cope.

This is a very sensitive subject, and I would just remind everyone that we need to treat it as such. Thanks, ladies (and gents!)

Grits
A.S. Host

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"The first of April is the day we remember what we are the other 364 days of the year." -- Mark Twain

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Bronwyn
Shipmate
# 52

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Oh dear been suspecting the thread would close for a while the nature of these boards. Will have to get Sean to save it for me as it is my journey. Although something which to a lot of people mean squat is is my journey. My real emotions and feelings as well as the fact I have nutted out a lot more beliefs and learnt a lot. Been suported by people who really understand.

BTW had the tinyist bit of bleeding this morning but it is gone now. Pain has been constantly bad so can not reley on that. The distiny of this child is in God's hands.

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Fragile X syndrome is part of our lives. Someone I love makes me proud who has this syndrome. I love you Miriam.

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duchess

Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
# 2764

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Damn! I am praying Browyn dear.

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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2

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quote:
Originally posted by perceval:
The old thread evolved into a safe space for infertile shipmates to discuss their predicament - sometimes with more reference to their beliefs, sometimes with less. It's important to grant shipmates with fertility problems that space on the ship, because often enough, their congregations just can't support them adequately.

OK, I need to set the record straight on this. This post is in fact what prompted the current sticky thread here in AS.

That the Ship has performed this function for you and others is a good thing, and I'm glad you were able to draw support from it. However -- and this is a big however -- the public boards are not a space to make up for lack of sensitivity by real life congregations. These are public discussion boards, open to all, and no thread is exempt from that. Do not do not DO NOT rely on a thread on a public board for unwavering support and understanding. We don't grant "safe spaces" for anyone here, no matter how sensitive the subject at hand. If you want that, you can pony up for a private board like others have and weed out who's allowed to participate.

Placing these sorts of expectations on the Ship, and the AS hostesses in particular, is unrealistic and unfair. I know I'm being the bad guy here, but I'm more than a little irritated that the AS hostesses are being uncharitably characterized for doing their jobs. If we want to get down to brass tacks, support threads are outside of the remit of All Saints. We're content to let them stay for the moment, but if people start hammering the AS hostesses for encouraging discussion on a discussion board, we may well have to revisit that policy.

If you wish to take this up any further, do so in the Styx.

Erin
Community editor

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

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Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

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[Votive]
For Bron,

Please God.

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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

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Bronwyn
Shipmate
# 52

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Thanks for your suport. Life is going ok the morning sickness is REALLY kicking in. Really grateful Sean has managed to get the time of the ultrasound off. Couldn't have done it alone...My boss has managed to rearange my roster too so I dont have to work. That was a stress in case it was bad news.

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Fragile X syndrome is part of our lives. Someone I love makes me proud who has this syndrome. I love you Miriam.

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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Grits' and Erin's comments have been duly noted (we're not safe anywhere; same as real life, then...)

Just checking in to note that I lit a real candle in Southwell Minster on Saturday for Bronwyn, Selah and Chukovsky. Have a virtual one as well [Votive]

Jane R

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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Sorry for the double post, but I just reread what I said about the hosts' comments and it sounds a bit snide. It wasn't intended that way; I know you do a very difficult job and get very little thanks for it (and certainly not as much as you deserve!)

And I do take your point about these boards being public... I don't think I've posted anything that I wouldn't want to be general knowledge, (if only to stop the questions 'Are you planning to have any more?') Only sometimes, you can't get the words out IRL [Frown]

Jane R

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Suze

Ship's Barmaid
# 5639

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[Votive] Bron, praying all goes well - morning sickness is a good thing [Biased] .

For my part, I was away at the weekend, went to a concert where the artist played a very touching song about parenthood, how much he loved his kids etc etc and I was hit by a huge wave of "I want that too". Haven't felt that strongly for ages and ages so it really caught me off guard, spent the rest of the night in tears and really shaky - just when I think I'm doing well again.... [Waterworks] .

Life just feels quite crap just now and this is another crap thing on top of lots of crap things *delves into the depths of self pity*.

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' You stay here and I'll go look for God, that won't be hard cos I know where he's not, and I will bring him back with me , then he'll listen , then he'll see' Richard Shindell

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Jane, thanks for your understanding.

You all are in many, many prayers, please believe that. [Votive]

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But I had a dream last night/ Of lovers who walked the plank/ Out on the edge of time /Amidst ridicule They laughed as they rocked and reeled /Over the mining fields/
Coming to rest on this ship of fools... (Shawn Colvin)

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chukovsky

Ship's toddler
# 116

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We are going to a service on Sunday for people who have lost a baby. I know it's a bit late to be telling people this, but in the UK there are a number of similar events across the country in October, I don't know if other countries organise this type of thing. Also don't know why our local service is in November... [Roll Eyes]

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This space left intentionally blank. Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.

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Bronwyn
Shipmate
# 52

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What a lovely idea. I wish we had it here. Might suggest it. If you go to the service could you say a prayer for those who post here? Not even by name just a general prayer. Although our babies may not be very big when we lost them they are still lost.

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Fragile X syndrome is part of our lives. Someone I love makes me proud who has this syndrome. I love you Miriam.

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chukovsky

Ship's toddler
# 116

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Absolutely - we will remember you all.

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This space left intentionally blank. Do not write on both sides of the paper at once.

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Bronwyn
Shipmate
# 52

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Thanks so much.

Getting so nervous about thursday now finding it hard to sleep and so on. I know it will or wont work but I am so enjoying being pregnant and my dreaming is so real just if it doesnt work I couldn't bear it.

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Fragile X syndrome is part of our lives. Someone I love makes me proud who has this syndrome. I love you Miriam.

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Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

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[Votive]

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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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[Votive]

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Petrified

Ship’s ballast
# 10667

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[Votive] for thursday

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At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock.
SoF a "prick against Bigotterie"

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perceval
Shipmate
# 4742

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Erin, thank you for making those points - it's true that a public message board can never be as safe as a meatspace group or a closed forum, and it's also very true that hosts have lives outside the Ship.

And to the host who renamed the thread - thank you, too [Smile]

Chukovsky, the parish I used to attend in Germany also had masses for miscarried and stillborn babies. I think that this is a great idea.

In the course of praying for the people on this thread, I've been wondering what to pray for and how to pray. Generally, my prayer has been along the lines of "Lord give them strength." instead of "Please help them conceive". The latter smacks too much of the idea that people have fertility problems because that is God's divine plan for them. When you see that people are praying, what do you want them to pray for? A baby for you, strength for the journey, peace of mind?

(When I was still trying to conceive, I also prayed for the strength not to be throw a hissy fit at teenage mums chain-smoking over their babys' prams.)

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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Perceval said
quote:
When you see that people are praying, what do you want them to pray for? A baby for you, strength for the journey, peace of mind?

(When I was still trying to conceive, I also prayed for the strength not to be throw a hissy fit at teenage mums chain-smoking over their babys' prams.)

I like the serenity prayer; God grant me the courage to change the things I can change, the serenity to accept the things I can't and the wisdom to know the difference. Not just applicable to fertility problems, either.

The Christmas after we discovered IVF was the only option for us I spent a lot of time praying for strength - my sister had just had her second baby after many years of heartache trying to conceive. Of course I was happy for her, but it took a lot of effort not to scream 'It should have been me, dammit!' every time we met...

But I really checked in to leave a [Votive] for Bronwyn's scan tomorrow.

Jane R

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Tina
Shipmate
# 63

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[Votive] for everyone, and a special one for Bron and Sean today.
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Bronwyn
Shipmate
# 52

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Sean and I wnnt for the scan. The dr even showed up which meant the usual nurse could not be rude.

Anyway guess what? I am seven weeks pregnant and the baby is the right size and has a very regular heart beat. Thanks for all your prayers and guess as well as posting here I can qualify for the shipmates expecting thread.


[Axe murder] [Axe murder] [Axe murder]

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Fragile X syndrome is part of our lives. Someone I love makes me proud who has this syndrome. I love you Miriam.

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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169

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Congratulations. I am very happy for you.

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"The first of April is the day we remember what we are the other 364 days of the year." -- Mark Twain

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Left at the Altar

Ship's Siren
# 5077

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Bron, that is fantastic news. I now look forward to reading your progress. Just great! [Big Grin]

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Still pretty Amazing, but no longer Mavis.

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Nutmeg
Ship's spice girl
# 5297

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Bron that is just fantastic. [Yipee] . All the best to both of you. How exciting. Now you can really celebrate. [Big Grin]

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" Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" - Groucho Marx

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Jerry Boam
Shipmate
# 4551

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Fantastic news.

Will continue to pray for health for you and the tiny life you carry.

[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]

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If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.

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Tyler Durden
Shipmate
# 2996

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Bronwyn, I only started reading this thread today (having not read the previous one) but I was so pleased to hear your news and, like others, will continue to pray for you all.

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The rabbis in the 10th century laid down the following principle: if a biblical narrative is incompatible with established scientific fact, it is not to be read literally (Jonathan Sacks)

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Amos

Shipmate
# 44

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Bron, I'll be praying for you and Sean and your little one every day--I've scarcely dared to breathe this last week! [Votive] [Axe murder] [Votive]

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Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden--Rosa Luxemburg

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Jillyb
Shipmate
# 4610

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Oh Bron how wonderful. Keeping you all in our prayers [Big Grin]

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I don't do posh!

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Vikki Pollard
Shipmate
# 5548

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[Big Grin] [Waterworks] [Tear] [Axe murder] [Overused] [Yipee] [Waterworks] [Votive]

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"I don't get all this fuss about global warming, Miss. Why doesn't the Government just knock down all the f**king greenhouses?" (One of my slightly less bright 15 year old pupils)

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Flausa

Mad Woman
# 3466

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(((Bronwyn, little one, Sean))) [Smile]
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Jenny Ann

Godless Liberal
# 3131

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Congrats Bron!

J

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Suze

Ship's Barmaid
# 5639

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Wow, I came on here to pop a prayer for your scan, forgetting we're behind you time wise.

What brilliant, lovely, wonderful news Bron - praying the best for you, your hubby and your little one. [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

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' You stay here and I'll go look for God, that won't be hard cos I know where he's not, and I will bring him back with me , then he'll listen , then he'll see' Richard Shindell

Posts: 2603 | From: where the angels sleep | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719

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What Suze said... I was thinking 'it's December 1st', not 'it's December 1st in the evening over there!'

[Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

I've got a big smile on my face now!

[ 01. December 2005, 08:01: Message edited by: ferijen ]

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I blog, occasionally

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Derf
Shipmate
# 2093

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Bron, that's fabulous news, praying that all continues to go well.

[Yipee]

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babybear
Bear faced and cheeky with it
# 34

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We are delighted with this news. May you have a smooth, trouble-free pregnacny. We shall of course be praying for you, and also for the others who would love to be in your position just now.
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331

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Bron, that's wonderful news! (Why isn't there a fireworks smiley?!) [Axe murder]

Sing hey for the joys of morning sickness, backache and galloping indigestion!

[Yipee]

Jane R

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Moth

Shipmate
# 2589

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Congratulations, Bron! I've been praying for you, and it's wonderful news!

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"There are governments that burn books, and then there are those that sell the libraries and shut the universities to anyone who can't pay for a key." Laurie Penny.

Posts: 3445 | From: England | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Astro
Shipmate
# 84

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Congratulations that's wonderful news!
Praying for you.

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if you look around the world today – whether you're an atheist or a believer – and think that the greatest problem facing us is other people's theologies, you are yourself part of the problem. - Andrew Brown (The Guardian)

Posts: 2723 | From: Chiltern Hills | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
chukovsky

Ship's toddler
# 116

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Aww..... that's great news!

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Posts: 6841 | From: somewhere else | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pants

Emergency underwear
# 999

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And a [Votive] for those who read this wonderful news and wish it were them.

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♣ Hm ♣
I use £6m of military hardware to find hidden Tupperware in the woods.

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perceval
Shipmate
# 4742

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yes, Yes, YES!!!!!

[Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

perceval

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Auntie Doris

Screen Goddess
# 9433

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Hurray hurray!!! [Big Grin]

Auntie Doris x

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"And you don't get to pronounce that I am not a Christian. Nope. Not in your remit nor power." - iGeek in response to a gay-hater :)

The life and times of a Guernsey cow

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Eloise
Shipmate
# 4292

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Congratulations Bron and Sean.

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Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. - The Red Queen

Posts: 418 | From: Bay Area, USA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
welsh dragon

Shipmate
# 3249

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Many congrats tis wonderful [Smile]
Posts: 5278 | From: ebay | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Just came over here from the praise thread...


Congratulations, Bronwyn and Sean! [Yipee]

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But I had a dream last night/ Of lovers who walked the plank/ Out on the edge of time /Amidst ridicule They laughed as they rocked and reeled /Over the mining fields/
Coming to rest on this ship of fools... (Shawn Colvin)

Posts: 28243 | From: Waves and seagulls, football crowds, and churchbells. | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

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[Axe murder] [Yipee] Woopeeee [Yipee] [Axe murder]

Oh Wow, I am so excited, that isjust brilliant news. Am praying for a happy healthy trouble free pregnancy.

Congratulations Bron Sean and wee squeeker

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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

Posts: 2663 | From: Under Downunder | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Caz...
Shipmate
# 3026

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Hey Bron, I have tears in my eyes right now. I am so thrilled for you guys.

Now REST UP!! [Big Grin]

Praying for your health and protection.

Caz [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

Posts: 1885 | From: here to there | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Puppycat
Ship's Toast and Vegemite
# 4941

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Congratulations to Bron and Sean and the bub. Continuing prayers for everyone on this thread. [Votive]

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“The Angels stole my phone box.” Doctor Who ~ Blink

Pics of my trip to Israel and Paris

Posts: 1905 | From: Picnicking at Hanging Rock | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged



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