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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Circus: Old English Thread
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
How about we see if we can write using words (from 'today') whose roots are only in Old English or Old Norse? Can we, say, write stuff that's worth reading? We may learn a thing or two if someone lets us know when we've used another word from, say, Frankish!
We should now and then go onto talking about something else than what we began with. You are not to use any words not used in the last two hundred years but can use words like ‘weekend’ so long as the bits are both/all from Old English/Norse.So, can someone begin with ‘My Weekend’ (talk about last weekend or this one or some other, as you want!)
[ 20. March 2008, 01:16: Message edited by: Chorister ]
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'Angels and demons dancing in my head,
Lunatics and monsters underneath my bed' ('Totem', Rush)
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MSHB
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# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
How about we see if we can write using words (from 'today') whose roots are only in Old English or Old Norse?
I am with you on that. There is no English like the Old English.
And you are right, it would be hard to say anything without writing words from our northern friends. "They" comes from Denmark. We can thank the Northmen for many other words as well. Eggs, for one thing.
My weekend? I have been sitting all day, reading and eating and doing nothing much else. Saturday is truly my day without work. But it has been cold today, so I have been wearing sheep skin shoes. I do not know what you call them in England.
Tomorrow I will go to church, I and all my household.
Anyway, I cannot think of anything more to say, while writing only words from Old English. King Alfred may have had ships and houses, and knew how to write, but he had not the ways we have to speak to folk far away, or to write to them, so that they can see it at almost the same time, even though they are on the other side of the world. He would have been dumbfounded.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I think this will be hard. I have been out for a good meal, where we had some well cooked swine with other things and a drink that wasn't ale or water. After the meat we had something to eat I can't speak about, for there are no words for it. Then as the sun was shining, which in England doesn't happen often, we went for a walk to the river, where there were many very small ships, but in the nearby field, for once, there were no cows or horses. So we came back again.
(It is possible that the Norsemen may have stolen the cattle and horses. They are known to fare far and wide in search of things to take back to Norseland, although their ships are small and I do not know how they could put more than one cow in them without sinking.)
[ 07. July 2007, 16:40: Message edited by: Ariel ]
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
Saturday
"Saturday" is a Frankish word. I don't know the Old English one.
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Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
This has been a restful day. I broke bread with a group of men* who cooked eggs, sausage and pancakes for us. I speak not of the "coffee" as that word is not known in Old English methinks.
My wife has felt unwell and has slept most of the day, while I have done chores and read.
I did go to the church to turn on the air cooling thing so it would be ready for worship in the morning.
*[From a nearby church. They come to our [apartment] building every few months]
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
who cooked eggs, *sausage and pancakes for us.
Say rather eggs and meat pudding ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:
They come to our *[apartment] building
If we may draw from the word-hoard of the Northmen, they come to your flats
The *s-word and the *a-word are French.
I ate fish and earth-apples and watched Live Earth on the far-seeing-thing.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
Saturday
"Saturday" is a Frankish word. I don't know the Old English one.
Seventh Day? Washing Day?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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MSHB
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# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
Saturday
"Saturday" is a Frankish word. I don't know the Old English one.
No.
"Saturday" is found in many Old English writings. It was widely written or spoken throughout the Old English church. It was written as Sæterdæg back then. And many books written now will tell you that the word "Saturday" goes back to Old English times. Since Old English, the written word was made to look like the name "Saturn" again, but they kept saying it the same way as always. Bookish men thought the Old English way of writing the word did not look learned enough.
Like some other loanwords in Old English (wine, wall, church, mile) it may even go back to the time before the English came to England. "Loan", by the way, comes from the Northmen. English is not only the child of the true English folk, but also the child of that lot from Denmark - a half-bred tongue! Even as far back as good King Harold, our last great English leader. It was a woeful day that he fell! (bows head in sorrow)
By the way, although King Alfred the Great had no knowledge of the things we have today, the words of his time are still good enough for us: world-wide web (or "web" for short), network, uptime, shell, kernel, software, hardware ... or maybe he knew more than we think?
So anyway, today I have been running some software, and looking at the world-wide web. And I went to church this morning. It's another cold day - only eleven above freezing - a cold winter's day in my town. So I am still wearing my sheep-skin shoes and I also have the heater on.
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
river search
Not in England, but in the land of the Franks, were those foul words born. Old French - both of them. ("French", though, comes from Old English "frencisc").
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MSHB
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# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
a group of men ... sausage ... air ... [apartment]
A what of men? And the s-word. And **r. All French. And the '[' and ']' tell me you know yourself it was wrong to write that other word.
But I do not mind "pancakes": "pan" is Old English, and "cake" is what Alaric calls "Norse", that is, the speech of the Danes or Northmen in Old England. The N-word was taken from the Netherlands in Middle English times. Maybe we could call the tongue Old Danish?
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
My Time Away (in "true" English, with a little Old Danish thrown in)
Four months ago, I and my wife and daughters went overseas. Our first stop was in the East - even further east than Alexander the Great had gone. We saw some friends who were living in a small town, and stopped there six days. I had a great time, although my youngest daughter did not like it - too hot, all the buildings looked broken down, and there were so many men and women asking you over and over to buy things. But it was an amazing time! And the way they drive there ...
Then we flew to the Netherlands, to see more friends - we were at their house for three days. They took us sightseeing while we talked and talked about old times and how everyone back home was going. My wife did all the driving - on the right hand side of the road. We drive on the other side back home, so she was learning as we went. But nothing went wrong.
Then we drove from the Netherlands to Denmark, stopping at a small house for five days along the way - far out in the farmland with cows and windmills and wide fields and lots of trees. It was great. We walked, drove to the nearest towns, looked at lots of old buildings - even went off to see a new ship along with thousands of folk in that town. They came out to watch the fireworks at night, down by the waterside - even small children.
In Denmark we drove over two great bridges, and ended up at a flat in the town where the queen lives - sometimes (we didn't see her). The Queen of Denmark has a daughter-in-law who comes from down my way (the Great Southern Land). The Danes were glad to see us - we understood why they were all talking about the news: the queen's daughter-in-law had had a new little daughter only the day before we came. We walked through the town and saw all the queen's great houses. As we walked along, many Danes flew by, going on two-wheelers.
From Denmark we flew to England, and drove from London to Maidenhead, where we had a flat for nine days. We saw my mother-in-law, went up to London, saw friends, went down to Hampshire (Chawton) and Sussex (Ashdown), and so forth. It was such a good time. Having a flat with our own kitchen, and driving ourselves everywhere - it felt a little like we were living there for a short while.
Then we flew back home ... the long way. Over the widest sea in the world. It took more than a full day and night from London to Sydney*. We had been away four weeks. Now we needed a rest!
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* The word "Sydney" may come from the Old English words "sidan eg" ("side island"), that is: an island near the side of a wide stream. The town Sydney was named after Lord Sydney, who was one of the King's great men back when the town was first built in the late 1700s.
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
river search
Not in England, but in the land of the Franks, were those foul words born. Old French - both of them. ("French", though, comes from Old English "frencisc").
I thank you, but you do not say what word I should use to speak of the water that flows inland which is not a sea nor the other kind of water that I was just about to name, which turned out to be a word belonging to the people in the island across the water. What shall I call it?
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bush baptist:
brook? burn?
Bourne, stream, mere, creek?
Flow, flood, spring?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
This is hard, but seems fun. How are you doing it? Is it enough to think of words that are not like French or Spanish words that mean the same, or are you looking in a big book of English words? I'm with the big book and it is slow.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Great thread! I think it is fun, too, but I am truly slow, and what I write looks as if I find it hard work. I think it makes it more easy if you think of words from the northern, farflung places in England, not the town – like saying ‘beck’ for ‘stream’. Today I mowed the paddock full of marshmallows; it took a long time but I thought I had done good work. Now I can go away tomorrow to a hot land to see my husband – he works in the hot lands to the north of here. I will not have the big word-book there -- I fear I will be bewildered then!
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Well, all right, -- the big word-book tells me ‘beck’ is from the Danes. Sorry about that. And sorry for posting twice.
[ 09. July 2007, 10:04: Message edited by: bush baptist ]
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by bush baptist:
brook? burn?
Bourne, stream, mere, creek?
Flow, flood, spring?
All good words, indeed!
And waterway, reach, run (wasn't there a Bull Run over in the New World? I heard they fought there twice - Campbellite should know, as it wasn't far from where he lives)...
You can always put two or more English words together where you might want to say one French word: instead of the r-word, say "a wide stream", "a path along the waterside", or else give the waterway's name: "along the Thames", and so on.
Another word is "fleet", as in "Fleet Street". A fleet is a small stream, one of which flows into the Thames underneath that same street (well what do you know!) But hardly anyone knows what that word means nowadays. They think it means the street near lots of ships ... or maybe you can drive fast there (like "fleet of foot").
By the way, I thought highly of Campbellite's "turn" and "chore". These words sent me off to look up the weightiest of my books - and yes, they do indeed come from Old English. He gets a clap from me ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) Most of the time I think I know which is which - but those words made me wonder.
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Wet Kipper
Circus Runaway
# 1654
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Posted
This Game seems to have morphed into a linguistics discussion.
what's it to be ?
Wet Kipper
Circus Host
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- insert randomly chosen, potentially Deep and Meaningful™ song lyrics here -
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
This Game seems to have morphed into a linguistics discussion.
what's it to be ?
Circus Host
'Tis to be talk of tongues - but only in the English tongue
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
Oh Kipper - you have such a good name for this thread! And yes, I can stop talking about where words came from. I hope we can say when a wrong word is uttered (following how Alaric told us to write), but I will not talk about where it comes from.
But I cannot stop thinking about BB's field of marshmallows. BB, are they sweets? Did you eat any? Did they melt in all that sun? Did you get stuck among them while mowing? Do the cows eat them? We town-dwellers want to know.
(BB, I think "beck" is all right, but no go on "place" and "easy". Alaric said you can have "Old Norse" words: that means you *can* have words from the old Danes. That's how I understand what Alaric told us to write. And no need to be sorry unless you ate all that marshmallow and didn't give us any.)
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
This Game seems to have morphed into a linguistics discussion.
what's it to be ?
Circus Host
'Tis to be talk of tongues - but only in the English tongue
I think Kipper is right. We should talk about weekends, following what Alaric said at the beginning.
I went off talking about where words came from. But I did write about my time overeas a few months ago. And my weekend on the world wide web.
And BB told us about her weekend mowing marshmallows. I am amazed. And hungry.
How was your weekend, Ken? Did you mow anything that you want to tell us about?
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Oh, MSHB, you make me laugh!
quote:
BB, are they sweets? Did you eat any? Did they melt in all that sun? Did you get stuck among them while mowing? Do the cows eat them? We town-dwellers want to know.
A mallow is a green growing thing (a weed?); one kind grows in marshes in England -- they are called marsh-mallows. From them, men and women once could take the sap, to make a sweet thing, which they called "marshmallow". But that was a long time ago, and now, men and women use the foot of a beast, seethed, to make marshmallow. (It is stronger than the weed.) And in this land, we use the name 'marshmallow' for a weed, but it is not the true marshmallow. This one is hardy, and must be mown before it gets old. But I liked to think of cows eating marshmallows, and a field-full, melting in the sun! (And the mower getting stuck!) ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I don't have my big word-book now. (I am on my way north.) I hope this is all right.
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bush baptist:
Oh, MSHB, you make me laugh!
quote:
BB, are they sweets? Did you eat any? Did they melt in all that sun? Did you get stuck among them while mowing? Do the cows eat them? We town-dwellers want to know.
A mallow is a green growing thing (a weed?); one kind grows in marshes in England -- they are called marsh-mallows. From them, men and women once could take the sap, to make a sweet thing, which they called "marshmallow". But that was a long time ago, and now, men and women use the foot of a beast, seethed, to make marshmallow. (It is stronger than the weed.) And in this land, we use the name 'marshmallow' for a weed, but it is not the true marshmallow. This one is hardy, and must be mown before it gets old. But I liked to think of cows eating marshmallows, and a field-full, melting in the sun! (And the mower getting stuck!)
I don't have my big word-book now. (I am on my way north.) I hope this is all right.
Well, well. You learn something every day! I've never heard of "marshmallows" spreading out over the fields - or being mowed. I wondered if they were some kind of white toadstool that looked a bit like marshmallow sweets. Though I still see cows, like those in a "Far Side" drawing, wandering about chewing on marshmallows (or cooking them in the fire!).
(I'm sorry to say that "beast" and "use" are out, under the laws of this game. But you are doing great, the more so if you haven't any books to look up. I would never have thought of marshmallow, and it's a good one. It made me wonder what other sweets we can lawfully talk about in this game. I thought of peanut brittle. We brought some home from overseas. At one town where we went, it was selling everywhere. It was what they were known for: the leading peanut brittle town in the world! Maybe the cows would like some when they get sick of marshmallows?)
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Marshmallow and peanut brittle! Alfred the Great ate better than we knew!
(Thanks for telling me about the words. I should have known. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
I could have said 'men and women take the thick water left after seething the foot of a cow or horse'. The weeds grow thigh-high, or higher.)
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bush baptist:
Marshmallow and peanut brittle! Alfred the Great ate better than we knew!
(Thanks for telling me about the words. I should have known.
I could have said 'men and women take the thick water left after seething the foot of a cow or horse'. The weeds grow thigh-high, or higher.)
Marshmallow and peanut brittle - maybe that was why King Alfred didn't care about the cakes and let them burn.
"Let them eat cake! I would rather eat marshmallow and peanut brittle. They give me all the strength I need to fight the Danes. These cakes can burn, for all I care!"
Yes, I could see that happening. It has the ring of truth about it.
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If I may ask, with all the heat and the drought Out Back, do you have enough water to dip new believers at church? Down here, we have the sea, straight outside the doors (well, twenty or thirty feet away, but as good as). Mostly at Easter, before church begins, we meet on the sand to dip the one who wants it, singing the odd song while it happens. Even with world-wide warming, the sea won't dry up (rise up, more like!) - but what about your neck of the woods? Dry as dust?
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
I am glad that this thread has gone on for as long as it has. I thought it might die a death but no! Forgive me for not saying 'Old Danish', or the like, for the tongue of the Northmen.
Tomorrow I am not at work, but go south on the iron road to the land of the East Saxons, with the help of Great North Eastern, as far as Peterborough, to where my good friends live, who formerly dwelt in a great house near Nottingham. She that lives there likes her ale and knows more than me as to what is good when it comes to that drink, if you can believe this. But she does not like Sunderland or Leeds, as do I, instead (and I have to forgive her for this, which, as you see, is so hard), her best team is Tottenham!
I know little of Essex and hope it will be a good shire to fare in. I know it was more than a shire many hundreds of years ago, when Raedwald was king nearby of the East Angles. His land left heathen ways earlier than the land of the East Saxons. My friends say we may go to see where he was laid after his death at Sutton, by the sea. I like the thought of doing this.
[ 12. July 2007, 15:02: Message edited by: Alaric the Goth ]
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
This weekend I will stay at home. I am looking forward to this, for I have been out for the last two weekends. Also I am fed up with the iron horses that run on the iron road, as they never run on time.
I see in the daily thing-that-is-not-a-book but comes out first thing in the morning and is good to read while on the iron road, that the keeping of the iron horses where I live, now kept by Maiden (or something like), will go to new folk towards the end of the year, so maybe travel will be quicker and the horses on time. However I've also heard that travellers will be asked to shell out a huge pile of gold, much more than before, but such is life.
I think this weekend I shall also visit the house of books that is open to all, where you can take them home for free for a few weeks, and maybe I shall take home one of those round things with moving plays. I might also treat myself to food from the east. In short, it should be a dull weekend (the more so as there is no Who to see) but I hope a pleasant and restful one. What will others be doing?
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
This thread gladdens my heart.
I am helping our church's Free-time Holy-book School this week. The children come to it gladly and learn much. They make crafts, listen to the Good News readings and try out tests with water and wind, straw and strings. They also sing songs they learned at in-the-woods-place.
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
visit
Is this not french?
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
visit
Is this not french?
It is. You might go with "meeting".
This evening I will go to a cheese and [drink which isn't ale or water] meeting at my church. It will be good to see friends and talk with them.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Campbellite said quote:
This thread gladdens my heart.
Mine, too.
And I liked very much the tale of King Alfred and why he let the cakes burn. Maybe he also had fudge? with walnuts?
But now, since you asked about water and the church, I must tell you that my name has misled you a bit. In the bush, or in older times, the words of my name mean something not quite what they seem. I looked on the web, for my whole name, “goggled” I think is the word, and the first thing I saw gave a good understanding of my name. It also talked about the word-book Macquarie, to show the true meaning. In short, I am not of those folk who dip grown-ups in water; I am of the sort who do not hold strongly to any one gang, but go to that church which is nearby, whatever it may be, so long as it is true to what was once given (and not too sick-making.)
Alaric, did you see where Raedwald lies? I do not know Raedwald – was he a great king, or weak or doltish? Tomorrow I will go to see sights, too; a great hall of wise men and the books they wrote.
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
visit
Is this not french?
As is "travel", "pile" (= heap), "round", "moving", "treat", and "pleasant". Sadly, the same for "test" and "place".
I haven't been to Raedwald's grave (Sutton Hoo?), but his weapons and such are on show in London. I have been twice to see them when over on that side of the world. I think highly of his craftsmen. He was a rich man, and the things buried with him were made of gold and silver. There was a whole ship buried with him too.
Speaking of graveyards, I was at one today. The woman being farewelled had lived long and worked hard for others - such as reading many books for the blind when she was sixty and seventy years old. She said (before she died, not at the graveyard) she could have become a lawyer herself after all the books she had read aloud for the blind who were at law school. What a good way to help others when you are old! She was rich in deeds and it made me glad to hear about them.
Now you might think, BB, that "bush" or "quite" are in, but woe! they are out. Anyway, now I understand the true meaning of your name. I had never heard of it before, and thought it only meant one who lives Out Back and also happens to believe in the dipping of new believers as grown-ups, not as children. So, chalk that up as another thing I have learned on this thread, alongside mowing marshmallows.
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bush baptist:
Alaric, did you see where Raedwald lies?
At Sutton overlooking the Deben creek and the borough of Woodbridge in Suffolk.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
I, too, was at a graveyard today. A car wreck befell a friend of my son, Will, last Sunday. Jeremy wore no belt and was thrown out the fore window.
On the morrow, my wife and I make our way to Roanoke to help her friend move her stuff to a new house. Lyn, bless her heart, has not begun to pack. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I am dreading this. Beseech the Lord for me. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
[Do true names count in this game even if they are Frankish? I would fain know.]
[ 13. July 2007, 20:38: Message edited by: Campbellite ]
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
[Do true names count in this game even if they are Frankish? I would fain know.]
I have been keeping away from them, as well as from "move" and "stuff" and "pack". But I can see how getting all your friend's goods and whatnot from one home to another will be heavy work. The more so if she has not gathered them together or put them in boxes. And as for graveyards, they are saddest when you are burying the young. You always think and hope that your children will outlive you.
I mostly played with hardware and software this weekend. I was learning a new tongue - not for speaking but for writing software (that is what I do for a living). And I downloaded heaps of software, just to see if it was any good. As an outcome of all this downloading and setting up, Windows is no longer on my hard drive: I never did anything with it, as I have been working with Free Software for years. Windows was only there if my daughter needed it for her games - and she has her own hardware and software for that now.
I watched two old shows on my hardware - one was called "2001: a wander through the heavens" and the other was called "Woodstock" and was about a gathering of singers and players and hundreds of thousands of young folk who came to listen, somewhere north of New York. "The Who" was one of the teams of singers and players, and also "Ten Years After". Cool, man! "By the time we got to Woodstock we were half a (thousand thousand) strong ..."
And today church, where we sang songs and listened to the Gospel and a Psalm from Holy Writ. Then we had a speaker and the "fellowship of the bread and the cup". After church we ate our midday meal together by the strand, right outside our church building, and we all talked heartily.
End of holidays. Back to work tomorrow. Now to bed.
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
My week-end was full of happenings and happiness. I am with my husband now (though to our sorrow, just for two weeks) and though he must work in the week, he is free (or a bit more free) on the weekend. We bought some things for the flat (pots and pans and bed-clothes). Then we went to a lake, just to walk around it, and to see the old place of worship (fane?) there -- this is not the worship I know but a kind with angry-looking gods -- people burn sweet-smelling woods there. We do not like to treat folk's worship as a mere sight, so we came away soon.
After we saw a kind of water-play of the land, which was great fun.
On the Lord's day, we sought out a church of our own kind, or close enough. Though we did not know the tongue, we could tell from the beat of the words when people began to say "I believe" and "Our Father" so we could say them too, and we could sing, too, when we knew the air. In the afternoon, we went to the great hall of books, which long ago was a place of great learning. That was wonderful, to see the stones left telling of the deeds of learned men in olden times, and to see how the yard was set out as a way to show how the learning happened -- that first one must pass through the gates of skill and good-heartedness, to look into the well of right thinking and then through the gate of skill with words... and so on.
One last thing: before I left my homeland, I heard on the airwaves a man say that the great leader Churchill said (about speechmaking) "Short words are best, and old short words are best of all." So I think he would have loved this game!
Posts: 1784 | From: drought-stricken land | Registered: Jan 2007
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
First put forward by bush baptist:
lake just around place fane people treat mere close people air pass airwaves
I know you will hate this, but ... these are out, as far as I can see (although "lake" is so near... the English had "lagu", and then went and borrowed the French "lac", which means the same thing. How woeful!).
Some thoughts for some of these: you can always use "temple" or "house of worship", and "near" would go well in "or near enough". While "waves" are good, what they go through is a worry. Waves may go through the sea (surf!), or even the land (earthquake!), but otherwise I guess they must go through the sky...
But speaking of ghostly waves that fly through the sky bearing speech, I think King Alfred could have had a walkie-talkie. How else did he tell his fighters what to do? Hmm, would you answer: maybe he sent them a wire? ... Ah! Wireless!! Why not. He must have had wireless. Most likely on his laptop. After all, he was networked, wasn't he? Anyway, you heard about Churchill on the wireless.
(Who'd have thought King Alfred had so much cool hardware in his day? For I reckon, if they had the words, they must have had the things.)
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Woe! The grim outcome of not having a wordbook, and not enough insight into Old English!
Thank you for sharing your wisdom with me/us. (And thanks as well for more of the True Tale of Alfred the Great! I never understood before how he went to war.) I thought "temple" would be French, as they use that word. And how could I not have thought of "wireless"?
At least Churchill's own words got through unscathed -- and next time I will hope to get through without mistake myself.
Posts: 1784 | From: drought-stricken land | Registered: Jan 2007
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
[Do true names count in this game even if they are Frankish? I would fain know.]
I have been keeping away from them, as well as from "move" and "stuff" and "pack".
You are right about "move". "pack" I ken not. But "stuff" does have the German brother-word "Stoff", does it not?
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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bush baptist
Shipmate
# 12306
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Posted
Bother! I said quote:
as they use that word
when someone already said that that word in leaning writing came from overseas. Let's say I put 'have' instead!
Posts: 1784 | From: drought-stricken land | Registered: Jan 2007
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by bush baptist:
Alaric, did you see where Raedwald lies?
At Sutton overlooking the Deben creek and the borough of Woodbridge in Suffolk.
Alas! We did not go to Woodbridge or Sutton, though it was all right as we went to Colchester instead. We saw walls that were made before any Saxon came to Essex. We saw yet older things, in a stone burg made by Normans, alas, from when the British in Norfolk had a queen named Boudica, who led her men in wrath against her foes, for she was whipped and her daughters ill-used as she looked on. We saw things bunt in the fire in which the first Colchester had been lost. We saw a wagon crafted not long ago like that in which the sword-queen fought.
On Sunday we went to another, greater Norman burg (so many were there!) at Hedingham, and rode behind an iron horse nearby.
I drank good ale on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and strong drink that Scottish folk call ‘water of life’. This was so strong that it would be ‘water of death’ were I to drink any more than I did! It was from what had been Pictland, though!
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bush baptist:
Bother! I said quote:
as they use that word
when someone already said that that word in leaning writing came from overseas. Let's say I put 'have' instead!
I also said 'ill-***d'. I hang my head in woe!
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'Angels and demons dancing in my head,
Lunatics and monsters underneath my bed' ('Totem', Rush)
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
[Do true names count in this game even if they are Frankish? I would fain know.]
I have been keeping away from them, as well as from "move" and "stuff" and "pack".
You are right about "move". "pack" I ken not. But "stuff" does have the German brother-word "Stoff", does it not?
I can say the following as you asked, for otherwise I should not write about where words come from (so our wardens tell us). But it has to do with the laws of the game - which words are in or out?
Yes, they do say "Stoff" in the land between Denmark and the Netherlands, but they took that word from Rome (stuppa) - not from their northern forefathers and ours. Worse still, they gave it to the French (estoffe), who brought it to England (giving Middle English stoffen or stuffen) - or so my big look-up books say. Anyway, "stuff" is not found in Old English, although its brother-word "stop" is. I could say more about this, but we would be better off making a new thread if we want a long talk about where this or that word comes from.
So quickly: "Pack" is from the Netherlands, as far as "they" can tell. And not found in English before the 1200s. Sadly, we must "gather up our things and put them in boxes" instead.
I am amazed that no one has wanted to fight my "psalm" - a word so openly from another tongue (way east of Rome, in Alexander's kingdom). Well, it was borrowed, maybe more than once, in Old English times (as 'salm' and 'sealm') ... and was still written that way in early Middle English. The 'p' was put before the word to show how learned the writers were, but no one ever spoke it that way - not in English.
Meanwhile, back to "My Weekend". This coming weekend I will be busy. Not only is there a new book coming out, filled with tales of "Deathly Hallows" (hey, Rowling is playing our game!), but I am also gathering all my old hardware together, so we can take it to a team of men who will pull it to bits cleanly, and not make the earth unclean by burying the hardware. These good men work for Apple, and they are putting on this "hardware clean-up" drive for free. I have over ten year's worth of old hardware to get rid of! As they said long ago: "Bring out your dead (hardware)!" And I will!
After thoughts:
(Alaric) could we say the daughters of the sword-queen were "unmaidened"? Also, "wagon" worries me, for the Old English gave us "wain" (as did the wainwrights who built them) - and that word still lives in the farmlands (or so I am told). Anyway, "wagon" is from the Netherlands - we owe them more than we think!
(BB) "temple" was borrowed from Rome in Old English times as "tempel" - as well as being found in French (we write it like the French, but say it like the Old English). Oddly enough, there are a few words which can either come from Old English or Old French, for both tongues got the words from Rome. "Part" is like that. We can also say "offer" and (!) "decline" - for churchmen back then talked in Old English about how to "decline" words (as in saying: "I go, thou goest, he goeth...").
Must. Go. To. Bed. It is after midnight!
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
I thought after I wrote it that 'wain' would be better than 'wagon', but I think the Danish word was 'vagn’, and although Old English gave us ‘wain’, it was written ‘wægn’, so alike to the Netherlandish word!
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
I am amazed that no one has wanted to fight my "psalm" - a word so openly from another tongue (way east of Rome, in Alexander's kingdom).
I was going to, for I saw that it had been borrowed from another tongue and its roots came from the far south. Then I thought loanwords might be all right after all, so I left it as it was. Psorry.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by MSHB:
I am amazed that no one has wanted to fight my "psalm" - a word so openly from another tongue (way east of Rome, in Alexander's kingdom).
I was going to, for I saw that it had been borrowed from another tongue and its roots came from the far south. Then I thought loanwords might be all right after all, so I left it as it was. Psorry.
I don't see how we can keep away from loanwords on this thread, as the Old English brought loanwords with them to England, from before they were even English ... there never was a "wholly clean" English, a "loan-free" English.
But as long as folk wrote some word in an Old English book or song (not in a book written in the tongue of Rome, but in the English tongue) -- before the French came, before Harold lost the kingdom -- then I would see the word as all right.
That, at least, is how I understand the laws of this game, and how I have followed them myself. But Alaric gave us the laws, and he might have other thoughts about what they mean.
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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Alaric the Goth
Shipmate
# 511
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Posted
It is good enough if words were written somewhere in English or Danish (as spoken by sea-wolves who came to this land) before the Day of Doom in the year one thousand, six and sixty, albeit if the words come from Danes, or the tongue of the kings of Rome, or those of the Welsh or Scots.
If the word is like 'psalms' and was in the Good Book, that is all right as well, again as long as it is in an Old English book somewhere.
Posts: 3322 | From: West Thriding | Registered: Jun 2001
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
I thought after I wrote it that 'wain' would be better than 'wagon', but I think the Danish word was 'vagn’, and although Old English gave us ‘wain’, it was written ‘wægn’, so alike to the Netherlandish word!
No book that I have looked up gives that word as coming from the Danes or Old English, always from the Netherlands. The Shorter Oxford being one such book. Skeat (in a book from Oxford all about where words come from) says that "wagon" didn't show up in English until the 1300s, a little late to be from the Danes.
The 'g' in Old English "wægn" was soft, more like the 'y' in "yellow" than the 'g' in "gallows". So it gave us "wain", not "wagon". It is the same as in Old English "dæg", which gives us "day", not "dag". Indeed, 'g' in Old English times was mostly not spoken like 'g' today, but somewhere in between 'g' and 'y'. We do not say 'g' that way any more.
So, as far as I can see, "wagon" was borrowed after Old English times, even though there was a brother-word "wain" in Old English. But that is like "friar" (from Rome's "frater") being borrowed from French, even though its brother-word ("brother"!) was already found in Old English. Where do we make the cut-off, if not at words that came into English after Harold lost the kingdom? Even if they have a brother-word that was already in Old English, the words themselves ("wagon", "friar") were borrowed after Old English.
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
Posts: 1522 | From: Dharawal Country | Registered: Mar 2005
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MSHB
Shipmate
# 9228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
It is good enough if words were written somewhere in English or Danish (as spoken by sea-wolves who came to this land) before the Day of Doom in the year one thousand, six and sixty, albeit if the words come from Danes, or the tongue of the kings of Rome, or those of the Welsh or Scots.
If the word is like 'psalms' and was in the Good Book, that is all right as well, again as long as it is in an Old English book somewhere.
Yes, that works well.
I am sorry. I wrote my other answer before I saw yours. I need not have talked about these words. You had already answered me.
"Day of Doom" indeed. If the Danes were sea-wolves, then I guess the first French were land-wolves. What they did to Northumbria... laid it waste, and left bodies everywhere - flock and herd, households and towns.
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Tomorrow is "Deathly Hallows" Day. Not reading it on the web today.
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MSHB: Member of the Shire Hobbit Brigade
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