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Source: (consider it) Thread: Circus: Knockout Quiz 2008
CuppaT
Shipmate
# 10523

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Mine is something I use all the time: Sodium Bicarbonate, commonly known as baking soda .

NaHCO3
14+1+8+3+15 = 41
1+1+1+3 = 6
41/6 = 6.83

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Stand at the brink of the abyss of despair, and when you see that you cannot bear it any longer, draw back a little and have a cup of tea.
~Elder Sophrony

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Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
quote:
Originally posted by Geneviève:
Should we be rounding off to 2 decimal places, as in good scientific reporting? (and for ease of computing too!)

True scientific reporting would round to the nearest significant digit. Currently it looks like it will be one or two decimal places but it could stretch out to three.
Ok, I'll tell my stats prof, but he won't agree!

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"Ineffable" defined: "I cannot and will not be effed with." (Courtesy of CCTooSweet in Running the Books)

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Surfing Madness
Shipmate
# 11087

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i know nothing!! I pick ferroelectric dicalcium lead propionate crystal which has the chemical compound Ca2Pb(C2H5CO2)6

Now to do the maths!!

C+a+p+b+c+h+c+o
3+1+15+2+3+8+3+15 = 50

2+2+5+2+6 = 17

50/17 = 2.941

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I now blog about all my crafting! http://inspiredbybroadway.blogspot.co.uk

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chicklegirl
Shipmate
# 11741

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quote:
Originally posted by chicklegirl:
quote:
Originally posted by chicklegirl:

C+O+A+O=

3+15+1+15=34

2+4=6

34/6=5.7 (rounded up from 5.66666666666666666666...)

Ah, yes--I'm at least starting to catch my own errors. [Hot and Hormonal]

That should be:

C+O+A+L+O=

3+15+1+12+15=46

2+4=6

46/6=7.67 (rounded up from 7.66666666666666666666...)

[Hot and Hormonal] Horrors. [Ultra confused]

The realization has just hit me: I failed to count the cobalt as one of the molecules...

So, third time lucky?

C+O+A+L+O=

3+15+1+12+15=46

1+2+4=7

46/7=6.57

(I can see the negative smart points accumulating before my eyes--but don't trust me to count them!)

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If you want to be happy, be.
~ Henry David Thoreau

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rugasaw
Shipmate
# 7315

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I choose the, ever popular, explosion in a custard factory:

C6H12O6(s)+6O2(g) --> 6CO2(g)+6H2O(g)

Now, I want to be clear here, in honour of the essential uncertainty that is the philosophical space of the Knockout quiz - I am choosing the "-->" bit, the moment of universal indrawn breath and quantum undeterminedness when nothing quite knows it is yet, the fragment of a second before everything goes bang. And as this is the moment of balance, represented by neither letters nor numbers I assign it the value 0.

(I know someone will now come and poke ever so gentle holes in my understanding of chemistry - But I don't care ! There is no such thing as truth ! All ontological claims must be stripped naked and made to dance in the light of their burning bridges ! Rage for the dying of the contested narrative ! I believe in the confused custard particle and you can't take that away from me !)

[ETA: Perhaps less caffeine before my next post.)

I'll play along. If you assign the value 0 to the letters and 0 to the numbers you get 0/0. Some people might assign infinity to this fraction(it does approach infinity), but it is actually undefined. So where do you place undefined along the number line?

And Genevieve that is what you get when you ask a statistician a scientific question. [Biased] Judging by what people are posting it was looking like a one or two decimal places for our significant digit. Until Doublethink posted anyway.

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Treat the earth well, It was not given to you by your parents. It was loaned to you by your children. -Unknown

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Liberty

ship's football fanatic
# 713

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H2O which is H=8 and O=15.

8+15= 23

23/2 = 11.5

So my score is 11.5.

I* have calculated that with 13 entrants the current mean average is around 5. But because someone else has posted a score near mine I should be safe.

ij [Big Grin]

* Of course actually I smiled winningly till my trusty physicist helped. I do not know what a mean average is (why can't it just be nicer?) or a chemical number thingy. DL is still trying to explain why just saying "the fastest goal ever scored at Wembley was in 43 seconds" is not giving a speed. And that was in last year's quiz [Help]

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"I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt, undoubtedly"

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Mertseger

Faerie Bard
# 4534

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Unfortunately, icklejen, ragasaw has already taken H2O.

I'll take Heme b the most common heme found in blood. It's C34H32O4N4Fe, and so

3+8+15+14+6+5 = 51

34+32+4+4+1 = 75

for a final 51/75 = 0.68 .

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Go and be who you are:
The Body of Christ,
The Goddess of Body,
The Manifest Song of Faerie.

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East Price Road
Shipmate
# 13846

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I know absolutely nothing about chemistry, so for inspiration for this task I looked on a marmite jar. Marmite contains niacin , so it can't be bad.

Niacin (also known as vitamin B3):

C6H5NO2

14+9+1+3+9+14=50

6+5+2=13

50/13= 3.8

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"Fishes stop and ask me where I'm bound." (Incredible String Band)

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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Quizmaster, is there a set formulation for how we should post the compound's formula? A polymer is generally expressed with repeating units inside brackets, so CH3CH2CH2CH2CH3 would more usually be expressed as CH3 (CH2)3 CH3, so the same compound can produce different values (4.58 in the first case, 3 in the second. This is true for any compound including repeating units. In the case of compounds of the type CH3 (CH2)n CH3, as n tends to infinity, the compound's value for the purposes of this round tends to either 5.5 or 0, depending on how you count it. (Depending on Quizzy's ruling, this may be useful for those yet to post.)

To avoid such confusion, I'll go for Methionylalanylthreonyl...leucine, generally known as Enaptin, which has the formula C44189 H71252 N12428 O14007 S321.

C + H + N + O + S
3 + 8 + 14 + 15 + 19 = 59

44189 + 71252 + 12428 + 14007 + 321 = 142197

59 / 142197 = 0.000415 (4.15 e^-4)

--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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flags_fiend
Shipmate
# 12211

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This is a highly exciting round, seeing as I start my chemistry PhD today!

I'm going to choose n-Butyllithium which is a compound I get to use lots, C4H9Li

so C+H+L+i=3+8+12+9=32
and 4+9+1=14

32/14=2.286

flags x

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"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."

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The Rogue
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# 2275

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Oxygen which is O2 scoring 7.5000000000000

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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Hydrogen gas H2 (don't think anyone's chosen that on its own) is 4.

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Rugmaker
Shipmate
# 10728

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I'm now feeling quite fortunate to have been eliminated as I don't think I actually understand this round enough to participate.

Backtracking slightly, I have now finished last in two consecutive rounds - is this a record?

I have also now finished last in the football round in 2 different knockout quizzes, and I claim to know something about football and also follow it closely! Clearly there is something in the idea of picking teams that play in pretty colours.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Knockout Quiz.

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Waiting to think of something witty to put here.

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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The Rogue and Chorister, you've both chosen elements, not compounds. A compound is defined here as consisting of two or more elements.

--------------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

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Nutmeg
Ship's spice girl
# 5297

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I am going to choose the compound Fucitol which has the formula c6 h14 o5.

The maths is as follows

C + H + O = 26

6 + 14 + 5 = 25

26 /25 = 1.04

I can't believe I survived the football round [Big Grin] .

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" Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read" - Groucho Marx

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Caty S.

I read, therefore I am.
# 11996

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I suspect this is going to put me perilously close to the mean, but I never was much good at science and my options are a tad limited unless I spend the afternoon scouring reference books.

So, I'm going for H2SO4 Sulphuric Acid, which I calculate scores precisely 6:

8+19+15=42
2+1+4+7

42/7=6

[ 29. September 2008, 12:03: Message edited by: Caty. ]

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sharkshooter

Not your average shark
# 1589

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Just to see if I can raise the average a bit (as I am not sure what the "average mean" is):

Yttrium zinc

YZn

25+26+14=65
1+1=2

So, a score of 32.5

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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]

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Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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quote:
Originally posted by Rugmaker:
I'm now feeling quite fortunate to have been eliminated as I don't think I actually understand this round enough to participate.

Backtracking slightly, I have now finished last in two consecutive rounds - is this a record?

I have also now finished last in the football round in 2 different knockout quizzes, and I claim to know something about football and also follow it closely! Clearly there is something in the idea of picking teams that play in pretty colours.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Knockout Quiz.

I don't think you have to understand this round to compete...at least I didn't. I just went to my good friend WP, sort of closed my eyes and picked one. Kind of like the way I did high school chemistry.

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"Ineffable" defined: "I cannot and will not be effed with." (Courtesy of CCTooSweet in Running the Books)

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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673

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quote:
Originally posted by chicklegirl:
quote:
Originally posted by chicklegirl:
quote:
Originally posted by chicklegirl:

C+O+A+O=

3+15+1+15=34

2+4=6

34/6=5.7 (rounded up from 5.66666666666666666666...)

Ah, yes--I'm at least starting to catch my own errors. [Hot and Hormonal]

That should be:

C+O+A+L+O=

3+15+1+12+15=46

2+4=6

46/6=7.67 (rounded up from 7.66666666666666666666...)

[Hot and Hormonal] Horrors. [Ultra confused]

The realization has just hit me: I failed to count the cobalt as one of the molecules...

So, third time lucky?

C+O+A+L+O=

3+15+1+12+15=46

1+2+4=7

46/7=6.57

(I can see the negative smart points accumulating before my eyes--but don't trust me to count them!)

At least you appreciate Maxfield Parrish's work for what it is. Thomas Kinkaid couldn't hold a candle to Parrish's work.

Our gracious Quizmaster, I'm sure, recognizes your artistic side and will reward you appropriately.

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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)

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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673

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quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Just to see if I can raise the average a bit (as I am not sure what the "average mean" is):

Mean average is when you add all the numbers together then divide them by the number of numbers. For example:

14 + 20 + 2 + 7 = 43

then divide by 4 and that = 10.75

and if I'm estimating correctly, you brought the mean close to my own chemical's score! [Two face]

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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)

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Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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I always found Kinkaid's work boring...and had to smile appreciatively on occasions when someone gave me a set of cards adorned with his paintings on the front (or top, the first page if you get what I mean).

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"Ineffable" defined: "I cannot and will not be effed with." (Courtesy of CCTooSweet in Running the Books)

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
The Rogue and Chorister, you've both chosen elements, not compounds. A compound is defined here as consisting of two or more elements.

I gave up chemistry when I was 13 - can you tell? [Confused]

(That and wasting too much time listening to this.....)

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673

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quote:
Originally posted by Geneviève:
I always found Kinkaid's work boring...and had to smile appreciatively on occasions when someone gave me a set of cards adorned with his paintings on the front (or top, the first page if you get what I mean).

You're right. As popular as Kinkaid is (and why is it that conservative Christians love him so much), he's no good.

According to my MFA-degreed husband, Parrish, even though he is classified as kitsch, is nonetheless a good artist. Kinkaid is a one pony show and even that one pony isn't that great.

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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)

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sharkshooter

Not your average shark
# 1589

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quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Just to see if I can raise the average a bit (as I am not sure what the "average mean" is):

Mean average is when you add all the numbers together then divide them by the number of numbers. For example:

14 + 20 + 2 + 7 = 43

then divide by 4 and that = 10.75

and if I'm estimating correctly, you brought the mean close to my own chemical's score! [Two face]

I understood that, in your case, the average is 10.75, as you calculated, but the mean would be the middle item, or when there is an even number of items, the average of the one below and the one above the middle. So, here, the mean is (14+7)/2 = 10.5

--------------------
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]

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Angel Wrestler
Ship's Hipster
# 13673

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Sharkshooter, you're talking about the median, I believe.

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The fact that no one understands you does not make you an artist.
(unknown)

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Liberty

ship's football fanatic
# 713

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Ok, take two!

Methane has the chemical symbol CH4.

C = 3, H = 8 so the letters total 11.

There's 1 C and 4 Hs, so the numbers total 5.

11/5 = 2.2.

So you know in school when the teacher said "you'll need to know this one day" - was this quiz what she was talking about? [Eek!]

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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[Help]
Does Carbon count?
If so (having no chemistry whatsoever) that would be C
C=3 divided by 1 =

3

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Geneviève

Mother-Hatting Cat Lover
# 9098

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quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
quote:
Originally posted by sharkshooter:
Just to see if I can raise the average a bit (as I am not sure what the "average mean" is):

Mean average is when you add all the numbers together then divide them by the number of numbers. For example:

14 + 20 + 2 + 7 = 43

then divide by 4 and that = 10.75

and if I'm estimating correctly, you brought the mean close to my own chemical's score! [Two face]

I understood that, in your case, the average is 10.75, as you calculated, but the mean would be the middle item, or when there is an even number of items, the average of the one below and the one above the middle. So, here, the mean is (14+7)/2 = 10.5
And the mean can be greatly affected by outliers. So, if in the example you give, we use 50 instead of 20, the series is 50, 14, 7, 2.

The mean is 18.2; the median (14+7)/2 = 10.5.

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"Ineffable" defined: "I cannot and will not be effed with." (Courtesy of CCTooSweet in Running the Books)

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chicklegirl
Shipmate
# 11741

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quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
quote:
Originally posted by Geneviève:
I always found Kinkaid's work boring...and had to smile appreciatively on occasions when someone gave me a set of cards adorned with his paintings on the front (or top, the first page if you get what I mean).

You're right. As popular as Kinkaid is (and why is it that conservative Christians love him so much), he's no good.

According to my MFA-degreed husband, Parrish, even though he is classified as kitsch, is nonetheless a good artist. Kinkaid is a one pony show and even that one pony isn't that great.

Similar to N.C. Wyeth, Parrish is one of those great artists, who, because they did the majority of their well-known work illustrating (which was how they were able to make a living), are often spurned as being kitschy. Which is a shame, since both Parrish and Wyeth were brilliant.

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If you want to be happy, be.
~ Henry David Thoreau

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
[Help]
Does Carbon count?

According to Gumby, no it doesn't.

I shall enter the following (rather cool) high-Tc superconducting material* Bi2 Sr2 Ca1 Cu2 O8, called BSCCO-2212 (pronounced 'biscko'). It has a critical temperature of about 91K (which isn't all that high, I guess) but it's name does make me think of chocolate hobnobs, which is definitely a good thing [Big Grin] .

Doing the sums makes 91 for the letters and 15 for the numbers (I think), so my total score is 6.467, to three decimal places. [Smile]

* This is the one round where we'd really like to be able to do subscripts!

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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The Great Gumby

Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989

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Someone was paying attention then, Dave. [Smile]

Fletcher: Carbon, like Oxygen and Hydrogen, is an element. A compound is made up of more than one element. The chemical formula for a compound tells you how many atoms of each element make up a molecule of the compound. So the formula must contain more than one letter. You can probably get more information here (which contains some useful formulas if you're stuck), or by googling "chemical compound".

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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman

A letter to my son about death

Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Adam.

Like as the
# 4991

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Angel Wrestler's right. Just to muddy the waters (and possibly provide fodder for a future round), there are other averages out there, including my personal favorite, the truncated mean or "ice dancing average". In this, you ignore the extreme values (defined in some pre-arranged way) and then take the mean of the rest.

In ice skating competitions, their pre-arranged way is to ignore the highest and lowest, so the truncated mean of 1, 3, 4, 5, 100 is (3+4+5)/3=4.

Another way to do it is to ignore anything more than 1/3 of the range away from the median. That way, taking the same sample, we note that the range is 99 (100-1), one third of which is 33. The median is 4, so the only number more than 1/3 of the range away from the median is the 100. With this method, the truncated mean is (1+3+4+5)/4= 3.25.

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Insulin
C=3+h=8+n=14+o=15+s=18=58, 257+383+65+77+6=788
58/788 = 0.0736

Now how's that for someone with no chemistry?!!!
I did cheat a little.

(tidied code)

[ 29. September 2008, 18:44: Message edited by: Chorister ]

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Geneviève

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Aha! Probably why Quizmaster, in his infinite wisdom, precisely said: average mean.

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Imaginary Friend

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OK, so I'm probably being thick here, but I still don't understand the phrase 'average mean'. I understand that there are different types of average (including the mean, truncated mean, median and mode), so I know that 'mean average', or 'median average' are meant to convey.

'Average mean' sounds to me like you have a set of values which are themselves means of other sets, and you calculate some average of those means. But we only have one set here, so that doesn't make sense.

[Confused]

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Mertseger

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I'm a professional statistician, and it's noteworthy that we virtually never use the word "average" at all even in the generic sense used by Hart. We wish to avoid just the kind of confusion that's cropping up a bit in this thread. We simply say "mean", "median" or "mode" as appropriate. I just mentally delete the word "average" from Quizmaster's posts, and, thus far, the results of doing so have matched exactly his intended meaning.

Now, if you all don't behave, I will go on at length why using n or n-1 does not matter much in the formula for sample standard deviations.

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Gwai
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Angel Wrestler, would I be an obnoxious pedant if I pointed out that Pb is one element, lead? Non-capitalized letters are the second lettters of an abbreviation. It could only be boron if it were written with a PB

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flags_fiend
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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
Someone was paying attention then, Dave. [Smile]

Fletcher: Carbon, like Oxygen and Hydrogen, is an element. A compound is made up of more than one element. The chemical formula for a compound tells you how many atoms of each element make up a molecule of the compound. So the formula must contain more than one letter. You can probably get more information here (which contains some useful formulas if you're stuck), or by googling "chemical compound".

I would have said that oxygen O2 is a compound, as it has more than 1 oxygen atom. Carbon, C, on the other hand is an element as it is just a single atom.

flags x

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Angel Wrestler
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quote:
Originally posted by Angel Wrestler:
Oh goody! I get to be first. Gee, Quizmaster, you're making me remember high school chemistry.

I choose

Lead Nitrate
PbNO3

P + b + N + O
15+ 2 + 13 + 14 = 44

1 + 1 + 3 = 5

44 / 5 = 8.8

(I am presuming you mean for us to count the 1's that are implied when no number is given)

Gwai - I rest my case.

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Geneviève

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Mertseger
[Overused]

So, a very personal question here: Are you one of the people who actually understand Cohen & Cohen?

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Mertseger

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quote:
Originally posted by Geneviève:

So, a very personal question here: Are you one of the people who actually understand Cohen & Cohen?

I actually had to look that reference up, but, yeah, regression analysis is pretty much my bread and butter. We tend to use slightly different flavors of regressions over here in the financial sector, but I've created and reviewed tons of logistical regressions at this point in my career.

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Quizmaster

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Knocked out for choosing an element, not a compound:
Chorister

Justification

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Quizmaster

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ROUND EIGHT : MOONS

You must ally your self with an orbiting mass commonly known as a moon.

You must post the name of the moon and its distance from the planet around which it orbits.

The person who posts the moon with the MEDIAN distance will be eliminated and in the event of a tie the MEAN will be used to make a decision.

Good Luck.

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OR=========================================
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Mertseger

Faerie Bard
# 4534

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Heh, good use of median and mean there, QM.

People might find this table useful.

I'll choose Phobos which circles Mars at about 9270 km in about three times in one of earth's days.

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Caty S.

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Metis, which orbits Jupiter at a distance of approximately 128,000km.
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Surfing Madness
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As long as i don't cross post i pickThe Moon Which is 384,400 km from earth.

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East Price Road
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I choose Titan, the largest of Saturn's moons, said to be 1.2 million kilometres from its planet (viewed from Earth).

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The Great Gumby

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# 10989

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I wanted to choose Keith Moon, but while he was frequently spaced, I don't think he can be said to be orbiting.

Instead, I'll choose Charon, which apparently orbits Pluto at a distance of roughly 19,640km.

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chicklegirl
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# 11741

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I choose Jupiter's Io, which has an orbital radius of 421,700 km.

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CuppaT
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# 10523

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Here is Amalthea , a very little moon which orbits Jupiter. It is 181,300 km from its planet.

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