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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Eccles: Confession
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ChaliceGirl
Shipmate
# 13656
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Posted
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?
I know it is rare to find weekly confession/reconciliation being offered in an Episcopal church. And actual physical confessionals can only be found in you Anglo-Catholic parishes- if even then.
I've been thinking about doing one on one private confession but I'm also a little nervous about it. My priest says there's nothing to fear and he says priests have probably sinned more than I have, haha! ![[Biased]](wink.gif) But I'd rather not confess to my parish priest because I know him too well. I'd rather be anonymous.
[edit title prior to moving to Limbo]
[title abbreviated]
[ 15. July 2010, 15:48: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
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Dubious Thomas
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# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?
I know it is rare to find weekly confession/reconciliation being offered in an Episcopal church. And actual physical confessionals can only be found in you Anglo-Catholic parishes- if even then.
I've been thinking about doing one on one private confession but I'm also a little nervous about it. My priest says there's nothing to fear and he says priests have probably sinned more than I have, haha! But I'd rather not confess to my parish priest because I know him too well. I'd rather be anonymous.
For what it's worth .... I make confession to a priest once a year (on Good Friday) ... and depending on my perception of need I may go more often than just this once. The Anglican formula is "all may, some should, none must."
In the Episcopal Church, we've been moving away from the traditional confessional box, as has even the Roman Catholic Church. The box is really an innovation of the late Middle Ages ... and the Orthodox don't use them (I'm pretty sure, but may stand corrected!).
I think it is actually desirable to confess to a priest you know and trust, who can give counsel based on your particular situation. I took a cue from Orthodox practice and found a priest to be my "spiritual parent" (specifically, I have a "spiritual mother"), and my experience making my confession to her, and receiving counsel and a "constructive" penance, has been very helpful spiritually.
You might consider forming a relationship with another priest than your parish priest ... but from what you give here of what your priest said, it sounds like he knows how to be a good confessor.
I recommend, as you think about this sacramental step, that you read Martin Smith's
Reconciliation: Preparing for Confession in the Episcopal Church.
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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ChaliceGirl
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# 13656
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Posted
Thank you! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Yeah, I've noticed the old style confessionals are fading away from the RCC. I was told part of this was in light of the abuse lawsuits, etc. If you have confession out in the open, the person confessing can't claim that they were touched inappropriately by the priest.
My parish priest is very good, you are right. I've already "informally" confessed some things during "downtime", like during conversation at a church event I'll tell him about something I did and say, "I can be a real b*tch sometimes!" lol!
Sometimes I'll "forget" he's my priest and the "uncensored" version of me will come out and blurt out things- if this makes any sense! But to confess formally is a whole new territory for me and I am thinking deeply about how to go about it.
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The Episcopal Church Welcomed Me.
"Welcome home." ++Katharine Jefferts Schori to me on 29Mar2009.
My KJS fansite & chicksinpointyhats
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Olaf
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# 11804
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Posted
I am by no means an expert in this department, but it would be a good thing to find a priest who is experienced in hearing confessions. (Believe it or not, not every Episcopal priest is very experienced in this department!)
Speaking with an experienced priest would help you to learn how you should prepare for your first official one-on-one confession, beyond the simple make-a-grocery-list-of-sins type of thing.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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chiltern_hundred
Shipmate
# 13659
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Posted
ChaliceGirl: much as I trust the clergy, I have only once made my confession to my parish priest, and generally (but not often enough!) do the deed in a monastery or when on retreat somewhere. I have in the past had spiritual directors who were serving clergy somewhere other than where I lived or worshipped.
If this is going to be your first time, it would be a good idea to get your PP to talk you through what to do; I'm sure he won't mind if you actually do it somewhere else.
If you can't find a monastery, a cathedral would be bound to have some confession-hearing clergy on the staff.
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"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
In the past, at least for Anglicans, 'going to confession' has been closely linked with spiritual 'direction'; most people offering the latter ministry have been priests and there is of course an obvious overlap between the two. But many more spiritual 'directors' or 'companions' are now lay people, so if you want sacramental absolution you need to go to a priest separately. But you are less likely to need or want the 'counsel' aspect of the confessional if you discuss things in depth with someone else.
If you have a trusted soul friend/ director who is a priest and who is also willing to incorporate sacramental confession as part of the encounter, then clearly 'confessional boxes' (or even the formalities of kneeling, purple stoles etc) are unnecessary, though the latter might still be helpful.
But it might be that you want to formalise your confession, as opposed to your general spiritual journey, in a different context. Especially if your director is a lay person, or a priest who may be a good spiritual companion but less skilled at the formal business of 'hearing confessions'.
Most priests who regularly hear confessions are well able to distinguish between the everyday pastoral relationship and the formal sacramental transaction, so I personally wouldn't have any hesitation in going to my parish priest. Though if you have a particularly close relationship with him/her that might make a difference.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Max.
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# 5846
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Posted
About once a fortnight I do. Confession is awesome!
However - I'm not fussy about where I do confession, I have confessed to a priest:
At the breakfast table in a Presbytery with a glass of juice in my hand.
In a Confessional
In a swanky glass "Reconciliation Room"
In a priest's office
In the front pew of the church.
Vestry
Front seat of a car
(Become a Catholic - Get regular confession anywhere!)
I prefer to do confession face to face and actually often ask the priest if he's willing to do that, I don't like the whole anonymous thing as to me it represents society's lack of distrust in the office of priesthood.
Max
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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aumbry
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# 436
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Posted
Chalice Girl said: quote:
Yeah, I've noticed the old style confessionals are fading away from the RCC. I was told part of this was in light of the abuse lawsuits, etc. If you have confession out in the open, the person confessing can't claim that they were touched inappropriately by the priest.
In a standard confessional box surely there is a wooden wall and a grille between the priest and the confessee? It is difficult to imagine how touching could take place of either an appropriate or inappropriate nature.
And surely re Max's point the anonymity of confession is not because people fear the priest will go and blab to everyone in the parish but to reduce the element of embarrassment which confessing to some sins might entail when done face to face. Anyone preferring to confess over breakfast should perhaps recognise an element of the exhibitionist in their nature and confess accordingly to the sin of pride. Personally I would not want to have to sit through listening to someone's misdemeanours over my Full English.
Aumbry
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Max.
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# 5846
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Posted
Surely the embarressment factor is pride in the first place?
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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New Yorker
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# 9898
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Posted
In my RC experience, the traditional box is alive and well. I can, and do, avail myself of these boxes in numerous parishes here in Manhattan. However, I would think that the box is not being replicated in newer church buildings. Instead, reconciliation rooms are in vogue. In these one can use the grill for anonymous confession or sit in a comfortable chair with a box of tissues near at hand. I prefer to use the grill, however, the kneeling bench can be a penance in itself!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
The box is really an innovation of the late Middle Ages ... and the Orthodox don't use them (I'm pretty sure, but may stand corrected!).
You're correct, of course -- we don't have confessional boxes. I wouldn't have any idea what to do or how to go about making my confession in a box. We make our confession, normally, in the front of the church, standing before the icon of our Lord. It is, of course, to Him that we are making our confession, with the priest as our witness and perhaps as our guide.
We would generally regard it as better to go to the same confessor regularly, in much the same way that you would be better off seeing the same physician regularly. Yes, you can go to the ER and see Dr. Whozon Call, but your regular physican knows you, knows what works for you, knows what has been tried before without effect.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
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Magic Wand
Shipmate
# 4227
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
Surely the embarressment factor is pride in the first place?
Is embarrassment always an indicator of pride? Or just in the confessional? The former, I submit, is certainly not true. The latter might or might not be, but seems open to debate. In that case, it would appear wise to take a pastoral approach, and always provide for confessing anonymously, as indeed the Code of Canon Law strictly requires.
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?
I know it is rare to find weekly confession/reconciliation being offered in an Episcopal church. And actual physical confessionals can only be found in you Anglo-Catholic parishes- if even then.
I've been thinking about doing one on one private confession but I'm also a little nervous about it. My priest says there's nothing to fear and he says priests have probably sinned more than I have, haha! But I'd rather not confess to my parish priest because I know him too well. I'd rather be anonymous.
Get yourself to confession, girl! It won't hurt at all, I promise, but find a confessor in another parish if anonymity is your requirement. I have to say it's always refreshing to speak openly about your personal failings with someone who understands fallen human nature, and your priest is right - they've all sinned, believe me. Not every priest, however, has the combo of spiritual advisor and confessor, so you might want to shop around.
You could PM me if you want some personal advice about who or where from a neighbor.
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max. [spelling fixed]:
Surely the embarrasment factor is pride in the first place?
Max, darling, your youth and innocence is terribly refreshing to an old and scarred soul such as myself.
Freud installed the couch in his psychological 'confessional' so that his patients would not be subject to the looks of horror that would betimes cross his face. In my brief forays into psychological counseling with a Jungian couselor, it wasn't the horrified expressions I was afraid of. That actually helped validate that some of the things that had become commonplace in my life were as horrific as I had thought.
No, what I couldn't take was the pitying looks. And the day I made my shrink cry was the day I quit therapy.
Shame? You betcha. Pride? Maybe. Serious trust issues? Present and accounted for.
One of these days I'll suck it up and get my behind to confession, but I won't be able to look said confessor in the face.
[ 19. May 2008, 15:55: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Lumpy da Moose
Shipmate
# 9038
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Posted
In my experience, I've never been in a confessional, never seen one.
I was required to do a sacramental confession prior to becoming confirmed some 39 years ago. Things have changed since.
I have been to confession once in my adult life and that was probably 23 or 24 years ago. To say that I'm overdue would be understatement.
When I did confessions, they were done at the altar rail, with the priest seated in the chancel, with his or her back to me.
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member, Our Ladye of the Bandwidthe and All Angels
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Max.:
Surely the embarressment factor is pride in the first place?
Before my last confession, I told my mother-confessor that I was embarrassed that I was going to be confessing pretty much the same list of things I had confessed the last time. Her response was to chuckle and tell me that I could also confess spiritual pride for wanting to have new and interesting sins to confess!
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Max. [spelling fixed]:
Surely the embarrasment factor is pride in the first place?
Max, darling, your youth and innocence is terribly refreshing to an old and scarred soul such as myself.
I find it rather trying. I do wish Max would refrain from making such statements without consulting both Canon law and trusted elders in the Church who might offer him some perspective on the pastoral issues that he clearly fails to consider.
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
I agree that provision should be made for confession that is not face-to-face, whether this is in a traditional booth, or at a cunningly arranged prie-dieu.
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Max.
Shipmate
# 5846
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Posted
Oh well - don't read them and then you won't be tried!
Problem Solved.
We have a problem in the Catholic Church with not enough people going to confession. We don't know the reasons. Having a priest willing to hear confession at any time in private is a fantastic thing and is something that more priests should advertise. The tried and tested approach however, may work for some but doesn't work for others and it's the others who are the important people to worry about.
(I for one just hate queuing up to a dark box to mutter my sins to a priest who will give me a Hail Mary a penance - I feel more comfortable with going to the priest's house for a chat, followed by absolution with a creative penance)
BTW - I'm totally in favour for confession to be made behind a grill for some people, I just don't think it's something that should be promoted though, people should be taught to be more open about sins to a priest.
Max
x posted with LQ
[ 19. May 2008, 17:11: Message edited by: Max. ]
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For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
We would generally regard it as better to go to the same confessor regularly, in much the same way that you would be better off seeing the same physician regularly. Yes, you can go to the ER and see Dr. Whozon Call, but your regular physican knows you, knows what works for you, knows what has been tried before without effect.
Josephine's medical analogy is a good one, I think. As I mentioned, I have settled on one confessor, following the Orthodox model. It really does make a difference when the person knows you and your situation.
Of course, many people "shop" for a physician, finding a "personal care physician" whose style of doing medicine they like based on recommendations. So, following the analogy, you may want to ask around amongst people you know who could recommend a good confessor....
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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sacerdos
Shipmate
# 8790
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Posted
Isn't St Clement's episcopal church in Philadelphia reputed to be "highest church in the world"? From what I've seen on its web site I'd be astonished if you couldn't find "proper" confessionals there, and probably a number of confessors to choose from. Bon courage!
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?
I do. I like it better that way. I haven't really seen confessionals disappear from Catholic churches but I have seen reconciliation rooms installed such as at a neighboring parish (where they still have the old confessionals too, though they use the rooms now). When I use one of those I also use the grill because I like the anonymity, not only is it freeing for me its also comforting in odd sort of way. Even in my own parish I don't think I've ever been recognized behind the grill. Priests hear so many confessions I don't think they remember. Even so, I have confessed face-to-face a few times.
quote:
I wouldn't have any idea what to do or how to go about making my confession in a box
You learn as you go. Before you make your First Holy Communion you're taken to make your first confession. Then you get dragged along with mom every time she goes to confession and she decides you need go too. And she drags you again for Holy Week so you can make your Easter Duty, and join the gazillion others waiting in line. Plus lots of prayerbooks come with sections on Confession and giftshops sell little booklets with titles like "How to a Make Good Confession".
Sacramental Confession is not synonymous with Spiritual Direction though it is nice if you can make confessions to your spiritual director.
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sacerdos:
Isn't St Clement's episcopal church in Philadelphia reputed to be "highest church in the world"? From what I've seen on its web site I'd be astonished if you couldn't find "proper" confessionals there, and probably a number of confessors to choose from. Bon courage!
Confessions are heard at S. Clement's from 10-10:45 every Sunday until June (I am not sure when they are heard during their summer schedule) and they are heard in actual confessionals. I also know of an ECUSA parish in Morrisville, on the northern end of DioPA, which offers Confession and Spiritual Direction every Saturday night at 4.
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ChaliceGirl
Shipmate
# 13656
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Posted
quote:
In a standard confessional box surely there is a wooden wall and a grille between the priest and the confessee? It is difficult to imagine how touching could take place of either an appropriate or inappropriate nature.
There have been isolated abuse cases of priests luring children over to their side of the wall. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I am really considering a trip to St. Clements!
[ 19. May 2008, 18:15: Message edited by: ChaliceGirl ]
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The Episcopal Church Welcomed Me.
"Welcome home." ++Katharine Jefferts Schori to me on 29Mar2009.
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ChaliceGirl
Shipmate
# 13656
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Posted
OK, how then does Confession work in an Anglo-Catholic church?
I have the 1979 BCP but does the Rite of Reconciliation in the BCP match how an Anglo-Catholic confession proceeds?
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The Episcopal Church Welcomed Me.
"Welcome home." ++Katharine Jefferts Schori to me on 29Mar2009.
My KJS fansite & chicksinpointyhats
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
CG, my priest confessor is rector at what passes for an Anglo-Catholic parish in the Diocese of New Jersey. He tends to follow the form you cite in the '79 BCP but embellish it with items from Fr. Belton's Manual for Confessors. Others may follow different customs. Your best bet may be to make inquiries with a parish priest before you make an appointment or show up for scheduled confessions, to ensure your optimal comfort with the procedure.
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Pancho
Shipmate
# 13533
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pancho:
quote:
I wouldn't have any idea what to do or how to go about making my confession in a box
You learn as you go. Before you make your First Holy Communion you're taken to make your first confession....
I forgot to add, you can simply explain your situation to the priest, that you've never confessed in a confessional before and don't know what to do. I'm sure he'll be happy to gently guide you through it.
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“But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places and calling to their playmates, ‘We piped to you, and you did not dance;
we wailed, and you did not mourn.’"
Posts: 1988 | From: Alta California | Registered: Mar 2008
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.
[ 19. May 2008, 18:44: Message edited by: LQ ]
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.
I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....
CG,
I would encourage you to find a priest who will use one of the two authorized 1979 BCP forms for Reconciliation of a Penitent (beginning on page 447 of the BCP). Both are well-constructed rituals, and reflect the theology of the Episcopal Church. Since this will be your first confession, with proper preparation the second, more elaborate ritual, would be a good option.
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
quote:
In a standard confessional box surely there is a wooden wall and a grille between the priest and the confessee? It is difficult to imagine how touching could take place of either an appropriate or inappropriate nature.
There have been isolated abuse cases of priests luring children over to their side of the wall.
In a standard confessional box, the only way to get to the priest's side of the wall is to exit your side and enter his. Anyone in the vicinity would probably notice this!
In the modern Reconciliation Rooms, however, there are just two people in a little room, with a divider of some sort creating a 'grille'.
So the box confessional is safer.
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Extol
Shipmate
# 11865
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....
Not to encourage this tangent, but unless you can find a single ECUSA parish that says the BCP rites ad verbum, at all times, this argument loses purchase rather quickly.
[ 19. May 2008, 19:28: Message edited by: Brian M ]
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
I don't know - I think there's a difference between minor tweaking and celebrating the Tridentine Mass in translation. Nevertheless, I think it's important that enclaves like St C's continue - in fact, I wish there were one in every diocese.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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ChaliceGirl
Shipmate
# 13656
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.
I went to St. C's once for mass and they used the 1928 BCP, that's why I ask.
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The Episcopal Church Welcomed Me.
"Welcome home." ++Katharine Jefferts Schori to me on 29Mar2009.
My KJS fansite & chicksinpointyhats
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
As the 1928 book does not include an order for confession, they are likely using one of the classical Anglo-Catholic priests' manuals. However, they do not actually use the '28 book for mass.
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brian M:
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....
Not to encourage this tangent, but unless you can find a single ECUSA parish that says the BCP rites ad verbum, at all times, this argument loses purchase rather quickly.
Since Chalice Girl is an Episcopalian asking about Reconciliation, it hardly seems tangential to encourage her to make use of the rich ritual resources provided by our authorized BCP.
On the more general point (and simply adding to what LQ posted), there is a world of difference between making some adjustments, especially if such adjustments have been authorized by General Convention and "published" in Enriching our Worship, or making use of the flexibility provided by the existing rubrics, and the wholesale abandonment of the forms of worship authorized for this church in favor of ritual forms taken from another tradition.
I'm an Anglo-Catholic. That means I practice the Catholic Faith in its Anglican expression ... which is found in our BCP.
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.
I went to St. C's once for mass and they used the 1928 BCP, that's why I ask.
They did? On Sundays at least, S. Clement's uses the English Missal, a translation of the Roman Mass as it existed in the 1950s into traditional liturgical English.
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Extol
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Posted
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Originally posted by LQ:
They did? On Sundays at least, S. Clement's uses the English Missal, a translation of the Roman Mass as it existed in the 1950s into traditional liturgical English.
Lietuvos and so on or Magic Wand can explain this in more detail, but the 1928 Canon is sometimes used at the Low Mass at SCC, and there are other elements of the US 1928 in use as well.
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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I'm an Anglo-Catholic. That means I practice the Catholic Faith in its Anglican expression ... which is found in our BCP.
I respect that position, but again, there is the script and there is its production, and we both know that "production values" in ECUSA have been many and varied for about as long as it has existed. No one simply "enacts" the 1979 BCP as is.
[ 19. May 2008, 20:56: Message edited by: Brian M ]
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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I only ever go to high masses at S. Clement's, either on Sunday or Holy Days, and at high mass it's the English Missal's version of the Roman Rite, normally with two interpolations from the BCP: the general confession and absolution (occasionally omitted, however) and the final blessing. I believe that more BCP material is used at low masses, though again out of the English Missal, so not actually the American 1928 BCP. Talking of that, however, I do note that they usually substitute the American "devoutly kneeling" for the English "meekly kneeling upon your knees" in the invitation to the general confession ("meekly kneeling" occasionally gets said by our British clergy).
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Lietuvos, there is an edition of the EM with the American 1928 Canon interpolated. One of your fellow parishioners has a copy, and I think another is actually used at your Low Mass.
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Magic Wand
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
I only ever go to high masses at S. Clement's, either on Sunday or Holy Days, and at high mass it's the English Missal's version of the Roman Rite, normally with two interpolations from the BCP: the general confession and absolution (occasionally omitted, however) and the final blessing. I believe that more BCP material is used at low masses, though again out of the English Missal, so not actually the American 1928 BCP. Talking of that, however, I do note that they usually substitute the American "devoutly kneeling" for the English "meekly kneeling upon your knees" in the invitation to the general confession ("meekly kneeling" occasionally gets said by our British clergy).
The only difference between High Mass and Low Mass is that the American Canon (and there was actually an edition of the English Missal that included this) is used at the eight o'clock on Sunday on a fairly regular basis. It is not generally used on weekdays, and the "General Confession" is never used.
As to DT's "world of difference," I suppose that our only real justification is that we're following one of the received traditions in Anglo-Catholicism. That said, pretty much everyone "enriches" in one way or another, and so it is a question of degree more than anything else. I can't see losing any sleep over it, especially with the practice of Anglo-Catholicism being as moribund as it is in so many places.
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Dubious Thomas
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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....
As the discussion spun off about St. Clement's not using the 1979 BCP for mass, I probably should just have pointed out the at the end of my comment was intended as a "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" softening of that comment. I knew very well, when I wrote it, that they use the Anglican Missal and such stuff there... and I certainly have no intention of reporting them to their bishop, whom I'm sure has no idea they don't use the 1979! (note the wink again!)
Anyway, the main point, given the o.p. question, was to emphasize that we have a perfectly good, authorized rite of reconciliation in our 1979 BCP and to encourage ChaliceGirl to look for a setting where she can use that.
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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Adam.
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I hugely prefer to make my confession face to face. I find it much easier to concentrate on what someone's saying if I can see their face and, while the counsel part of reconciliation doesn't exactly last all that long, I'm still more engaged if we have eye contact. That said, the faithful have an absolute right enshrined in canon law to make their confession through a grille, and this should be respected.
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Dubious Thomas
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Originally posted by Hart:
I hugely prefer to make my confession face to face. I find it much easier to concentrate on what someone's saying if I can see their face and, while the counsel part of reconciliation doesn't exactly last all that long, I'm still more engaged if we have eye contact. That said, the faithful have an absolute right enshrined in canon law to make their confession through a grille, and this should be respected.
Just to be clear, since the o.p. was a question from an American Episcopalian (Anglican), that there isn't -- as far as I know -- any such "right" enshrined in Anglican "canon law" ... and certainly Roman Catholic canon law doesn't apply to Anglicans!
DT
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Psalm 79:6
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Adam.
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That is, of course, true, DT. I'll pray for the poor oppressed Anglicans, whose deacons cannot bless and whose faithful have no right to a grille.
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Absent any Anglican equivalent, I think it is altogether appropriate to consider Roman moral theology on the question of confession and Communion, namely, that one has no business receiving the latter if one is aware of having committed a mortal sin and has not availed himself of the former.
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Dubious Thomas
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Originally posted by Hart:
That is, of course, true, DT. I'll pray for the poor oppressed Anglicans, whose deacons cannot bless and whose faithful have no right to a grille.
You'd better including the poor oppressed Orthodox in your prayers for the grille-deprived. Indeed, they especially need your prayers, since their priests don't actually forgive their sins, they merely tell them God has done it. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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ChaliceGirl
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Posted
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Originally posted by LQ:
quote:
Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.
I went to St. C's once for mass and they used the 1928 BCP, that's why I ask.
They did? On Sundays at least, S. Clement's uses the English Missal, a translation of the Roman Mass as it existed in the 1950s into traditional liturgical English.
Well I could be mistaken, The 1928BCP was in the pews, so I just assumed that's what they always use.
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ChaliceGirl
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and I certainly have no intention of reporting them to their bishop, whom I'm sure has no idea they don't use the 1979! (note the wink again!)
The Bishop has much more to worry about right now, but that's a whole 'nother topic!
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The Episcopal Church Welcomed Me.
"Welcome home." ++Katharine Jefferts Schori to me on 29Mar2009.
My KJS fansite & chicksinpointyhats
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Dubious Thomas
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brian M:
Absent any Anglican equivalent, I think it is altogether appropriate to consider Roman moral theology on the question of confession and Communion, namely, that one has no business receiving the latter if one is aware of having committed a mortal sin and has not availed himself of the former.
One might "consider" Roman moral theology ... and, I suppose, could adopt this as a personal discipline ... but this is clearly not where the "mainstream" of Anglican belief and practice lies, either now or in the past. Sacramental confession is not necessary for the forgiveness of sins, and it has been long-standing Anglican practice for priests to give a general absolution for all who participate in a general confession, with no need for individual confession and absolution... but, of course, you know all this!
DT
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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