homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools
Thread closed  Thread closed


Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread (Page 107)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  104  105  106  107  108  109  110  111 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

 - Posted      Profile for Mad Geo   Email Mad Geo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
It's a proud day to be an American. It's been a long time since I felt that way.

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
RooK

1 of 6
# 1852

 - Posted      Profile for RooK   Author's homepage   Email RooK   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I find myself looking into obtaining citizenship in this great country. To pitch in and help.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

 - Posted      Profile for The Bede's American Successor   Author's homepage   Email The Bede's American Successor   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
Zwingli reads through the last page and a bit of the thread.

Honestly, people, get a grip.
Sheesh.

Hopefully, if nothing else, the Republicans will now abandon the neocons and become a principled party of small government.

Actually, the only real force in the Republican Party is the NeoCons these days.

The self-respecting Republicans may just have to join the true Big Tent Party, and start jostling about with everyone from Landreau to Kennedy. Let Palin have the Republicans.

There will be more room for the self-respecting Republicans after the left-wing wingnuts go ballistic and leave the Democratic Party when they find out Obama really meant it when he said he wasn't necessarily bringing the troops home when they leave Iraq. Instead, they are going after the person and the organization that actually attacked the USA on 9/11. Take care of that problem, and Al Qaeada in Iraq won't have its namesake organization anymore. Then bring the troops home.

Half the fun of the Democratic Party is working thing out with the broad spectrum that identifies with it. The Democrats are not the Liberal Party of the US.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

 - Posted      Profile for The Bede's American Successor   Author's homepage   Email The Bede's American Successor   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I find myself looking into obtaining citizenship in this great country. To pitch in and help.

Hell has froze over.

Either that, or all the beer in Portland.

--------------------
This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
QLib

Bad Example
# 43

 - Posted      Profile for QLib   Email QLib   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Yaaaayyyyy! [Yipee]
Congratulations, America - you lived up to the rhetoric (and what a rhetoric to live up to).

--------------------
Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.

Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Scot

Deck hand
# 2095

 - Posted      Profile for Scot   Email Scot   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I wish I believed that President Obama was going to be half as wonderful and shiny as you all do. Still, change--almost any change--is welcome.

I am damned proud that America has become a place where a black man can be elected president.

It balances my shame that my state has voted to institutionalize discrimination based on sexual orientation.

--------------------
“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

 - Posted      Profile for Dee.   Email Dee.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
quote:
Originally posted by Paddy O'Furniture:
Oh, c'mon, you old softie. We all know that you cry when you watch "Bambie" and you love soft, fluffy, (litter-box trained) kittens!

Bambi? Nah. I was the bastard who shot his mother, butchered and stacked her bits in the freezer.
Geez Gort,

I thought that was Sarah Palin

--------------------
Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

Posts: 2679 | From: Under Downunder | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

 - Posted      Profile for Doublethink.   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Congratulations [Big Grin]

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
piers ploughman
Shipmate
# 13174

 - Posted      Profile for piers ploughman   Email piers ploughman   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Well done, America. You got yourselves, and the rest of us, a President we can all invest some hope in.

--------------------
Eternity is in love with the productions of time.
William Blake.

Posts: 2121 | From: perth wa | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

 - Posted      Profile for Robert Armin     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
It's taken me this long to catch up with all the posts here, and I'm emotional too, as a cynical old Brit. Congratulations to all my American Shipmates - you have done something momentous. Dreams can come true!

--------------------
Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

 - Posted      Profile for Alfred E. Neuman     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Dee.:
Geez Gort,

I thought that was Sarah Palin

Sorry, hon. I was raised in Washington and spent many years living and working in Alaska.

Meat is meat. Would you like me to describe skinning a seal? Or a pod of whales ripping through a seine? Or perhaps a raging storm on the Bering Sea with 50ft. swells in the dead of winter while pulling crab pots in pitch-darkness while dead-frozen-tired?

It's all a matter of perspective, you see?

--------------------
--Formerly: Gort--

Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

 - Posted      Profile for Ariel   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by piers ploughman:
Well done, America. You got yourselves, and the rest of us, a President we can all invest some hope in.

Exactly. My congratulations to the American shipmates, thank you.

(And looking forward to our own general election - whenever it is - in due course.)

Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
koshatnik
Shipmate
# 11938

 - Posted      Profile for koshatnik   Email koshatnik   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Congratulations to all who hoped for this. May tonight's promises be neither corrupted nor forgotten.
Posts: 467 | From: top of the pops to drawing the dole | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Badger Lady
Shipmate
# 13453

 - Posted      Profile for Badger Lady   Email Badger Lady   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Well, woke up at 3am British time and so was able to watch all the exciting bits. Boy do I wish our elections were like that.


Obama's speech; thought he was trying to dampen expectations of what he can achieve though (and get a second term)


Loved the bit about buying a puppy for his daughters. In my mind the conversation in the Obama household went something like this:

Daddy Obama: Come to the rally with me tonight.

Little Obamas: but why?

Daddy Obama: because I am about to become the most powerful man in the free world

Little Obamas: but why?

Daddy Obama: because it is a momentous day for our country when we become a truly United States.

Little Obamas: but why?

Daddy Obama: because I am trying to change the country for you and your future. Yes we can/

Little Obamas: but why?

Daddy Obama: because I'll get you a really cute puppy:

Little Obamas: ok.

Posts: 340 | From: London | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
When on TV last night I saw lines of voters including many blacks, Hispanics and young people I thought "Obama's gonna do it". Then I heard that the percentage showing up to vote was well up and thought he was even more likely to do so. Highest turn-out since 1960 I believe, which also saw something of a "first" in the White House.

Congratulations to Barack Obama. Excellent concession and acceptance speeches by both candidates and best wishes to everyone in America this *bright* morning.

(mind you, I felt like this the morning after John Major had been turned out of No. 10)

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
I wish I believed that President Obama was going to be half as wonderful and shiny as you all do. Still, change--almost any change--is welcome.

I am damned proud that America has become a place where a black man can be elected president.

It balances my shame that my state has voted to institutionalize discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Re Obama:

Scot, IMHO his speech did a good job of getting real. He said it's going to be hard, he'll make mistakes, people will have to sacrifice and to work together, etc. He wasn't ego-tripping. That may mean that he's going to try to keep his ego out of the way and actually get good stuff done. FWIW.


Re Prop. 8:

The late updates I've seen say they're still counting. (For non-Californians: Yes on Prop. 8 means same-sex marriage will be banned again. No means it will still be considered a basic right.)

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

 - Posted      Profile for Sir Kevin   Author's homepage   Email Sir Kevin   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I am totally happy with the elections here in my state and my country: we have now been dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century!

--------------------
If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Badger Lady--

[Smile]

I was thinking the conversation was more like, "if you are very, very good, and polite, and well-behaved during all these public things I'm dragging you to, you'll get that new puppy you've been wanting, whether I win or not". [Smile]

Actually, I'm trying to think...didn't Michelle O. say something about the proposed puppy in a tv interview some months back?

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mr Clingford
Shipmate
# 7961

 - Posted      Profile for Mr Clingford   Email Mr Clingford   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Well done America. I feel so pleased for you and proud of you.

--------------------
Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.

If only.

Posts: 1660 | From: A Fleeting moment | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473

 - Posted      Profile for Huia   Email Huia   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Late to the party, but [Yipee] Well done America!

I wish my mother was alive to see this day as the Civil Rights Movement was an issue close to her heart.

Chast - that is so disappointing - I hope it comes out OK regarding gay marriage in Florida (and of course the rest of the country).

Huia

--------------------
Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hiro's Leap

Shipmate
# 12470

 - Posted      Profile for Hiro's Leap   Email Hiro's Leap   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
This is the best day in a long, long while. Even I, stone-cold miserable git that I am, started to shred a few tears and run around yelling. Until the stiff upper lip training kicked in. God, the relief!

A few years down the line, when the media have chipped away and he's had to do some tough things and recession is biting, I've no doubt that cynics will look back at our reaction and scoff. But this is still a wonderful proud day for the U.S. and the rest of us.

Thank you, all of you here, who helped make this happen - especially the people who went out campaigning.
[Overused] [Overused]

Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
rabcpresbyterian
Shipmate
# 12060

 - Posted      Profile for rabcpresbyterian   Email rabcpresbyterian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Just..Wow ! I'm gobsmacked. Didn't believe it would happen. Thank the dear sweet baby Lord Jesus in Heaven it has.

--------------------
Any man's death diminishes me, for I am part of mankinde - John Donne

Posts: 894 | From: here be dragons | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Eloise
Shipmate
# 4292

 - Posted      Profile for Eloise   Email Eloise   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Congratulations! I'm really happy for you all.

quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Good question! I don't know. I'd heard that there was some kerfuffle about where and when the ranked-choice ballots would be counted -- those in charge wanted to wait until later to deal with them, for some reason. Maybe processing of ballots is being held up because of that?

Another reason not to adopt this system.

Could you imagine King County trying to do ranked-choice voting? And getting the votes counted right before January?

What are the other reasons not to adopt it?

I ask because according to this website it looks pretty much like what we have here, which seems to work ok. But then, I've never really known anything else. We generally get same-day results.

Posts: 419 | From: Bay Area, USA | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

 - Posted      Profile for Wesley J   Email Wesley J   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
[...] Commentators mentioned that when BHO was born (a number of years after I was born [Eek!] ), his parents marriage was illegal in a large number of states.

BHO? Browser Help Object? A well-known word from years of spyware combat... [Ultra confused]

However, I'm all for Obamaware - hoping there won't be too much wear and tear for him! [Biased]

[ 05. November 2008, 08:42: Message edited by: Wesley J ]

--------------------
Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Stayed up til the acceptance speech. I did a bit of channel hopping but spent most of the time on CNN. I want a magic map for Christmas!

A remarkable and historic night. "The audacity of hope" has been given a concrete expression by the people. The USA at its best. Great speeches by both McClain and Obama. When it comes to speechmaking, Obama really is a spell-binder. He sure got to me - as did the extraordinarily mixed huge audience. And the tears of Jesse Jackson.

The electoral college is remarkably close to the median prediction - but the popular vote is a good deal closer. Obama got the votes where they counted the most.

Objectively, Obama picks up a poisoned chalice from the Bush administration. He's got a tough job from here on in, starting now. But he is different and he does have a capacity to inspire. I'm hopeful too. "Yes we can" have a hope that will not disappoint.

[Votive] for President-elect Obama and the USA, that the fresh hope is translated into a better future.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bucca
Shipmate
# 12995

 - Posted      Profile for Bucca     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Oh dear.

Another Globalist gets a crown; although its not as if you (US) had a choice in the matter....

Mark this day well - it reminds me of the UK in 1997; when a shiny gloss was put on a fascist agenda.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
So you're not hopeful? What might have made you so?

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

 - Posted      Profile for Rosa Winkel   Author's homepage   Email Rosa Winkel   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
Oh dear.

Another Globalist gets a crown; although its not as if you (US) had a choice in the matter....

Mark this day well - it reminds me of the UK in 1997; when a shiny gloss was put on a fascist agenda.

[Roll Eyes]

Anyway, well done US. [Smile]

--------------------
The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Qupe
Shipmate
# 12388

 - Posted      Profile for Qupe   Email Qupe   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Congratulations and well done America! [Yipee]

--------------------
'Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.'

Posts: 802 | From: Down the road from the chocolate factory | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Bucca
Shipmate
# 12995

 - Posted      Profile for Bucca     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
So you're not hopeful? What might have made you so?

Looking at Mr Obama....

Especially his "unite the world" and "I am a world citizen" speach in Berlin, or his attitude towards war in Afghanistan or potentially Pakistan or Iran.

I dont think McCain would have been any better, but I see Obama as a shiny wolf in sheeps clothing that has been sold to people the same way Blair was. The scenes in the US are reminiscent of over here in '97 with all the "things can only get better".....just before we learned about plans for ID Cards, Wars built on lies, desires for EU unity (and rulership), "faith and globalisation", the death of Dr Kelly, supporting the olympics in china, new plans for nuclear power stations, a replacement for trident, lack of serious comment on guantanamo/rendition......

Obama is cut from the same cloth as Blair. America, beware, you are on the verge of something nasty.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
multipara
Shipmate
# 2918

 - Posted      Profile for multipara   Author's homepage   Email multipara   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Nonsense, after Bush and his minions?????!!!!!!!

--------------------
quod scripsi, scripsi

Posts: 4985 | From: new south wales | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439

 - Posted      Profile for Anna B     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
So, so full of joy. Just speechless.

--------------------
Bad Christian (TM)

Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bucca
Shipmate
# 12995

 - Posted      Profile for Bucca     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by multipara:
Nonsense, after Bush and his minions?????!!!!!!!

Just because Bush was a warmonger, and that Obama is not Bush, it does *not* follow that Obama will not himself turn out to be a monster.....

He has openly declared himself on a Globalist agenda and platform and reminds me oh so much of Blair. Dont be so easily taken in by shiny wrapping, America.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
moron
Shipmate
# 206

 - Posted      Profile for moron   Email moron   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
To President Obama:

You thought this all up and you made it happen, no mean feat. Congrats.

May God be with you and yours.

Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505

 - Posted      Profile for Banner Lady   Email Banner Lady   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Well, give it about 6 months after his inauguration and there'll probably be plenty of political lynch mobs circling. But for now we hope and pray. Just back from bible study and we stopped to pray for America - and for some great big dollops of discernment for BHO as the opportunists and opportunities begin to spin around him. I'm officially all electioned out, having been part of my local government elections over the last fortnight, electing a bishop last weekend and now the sideshow in America reaching its grand finale. Lord have mercy!

--------------------
Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.

Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
So you're not hopeful? What might have made you so?

Looking at Mr Obama....

Especially his "unite the world" and "I am a world citizen" speach in Berlin, or his attitude towards war in Afghanistan or potentially Pakistan or Iran.

I dont think McCain would have been any better, but I see Obama as a shiny wolf in sheeps clothing that has been sold to people the same way Blair was. The scenes in the US are reminiscent of over here in '97 with all the "things can only get better".....just before we learned about plans for ID Cards, Wars built on lies, desires for EU unity (and rulership), "faith and globalisation", the death of Dr Kelly, supporting the olympics in china, new plans for nuclear power stations, a replacement for trident, lack of serious comment on guantanamo/rendition......

Obama is cut from the same cloth as Blair. America, beware, you are on the verge of something nasty.

Oh I see! You are simply asserting a view of his character. You don't really have any evidence yet to support your "wolf in sheep's clothing" view. Just some kind of pre-existing view that politicians who speak in global terms are somehow not to be trusted. And maybe a bit of pattern-prediction, based on what? Blair disappointment? A caution about hitching any sort of wagon to Obama because he "looks shiny". It's not much of an argument, is it?

We're all going to "watch this space" of course. Obama is unproven in the highest office in the land. But why can't you just wish the man well? It's a tough enough job without the poisoned chalice he's inheriting. What's wrong with a bit of goodwill?

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
piers ploughman
Shipmate
# 13174

 - Posted      Profile for piers ploughman   Email piers ploughman   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
There's only one bad thing about Barack Obama that I can see at this stage, and it takes the gloss off just a tad: he's the first POTUS who's younger than I am.

--------------------
Eternity is in love with the productions of time.
William Blake.

Posts: 2121 | From: perth wa | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

 - Posted      Profile for Twilight     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Whoopie!

I hope Obama goes down in history as one of our greatest presidents, noted for getting us out of a war and an economic slump and for turning us in a new direction where we think more in terms of our planet than our country.

Every station shows Obama accepting the win with the banner, "Historic Moment" underneath him. It is an historic moment but I hope the "historic" part turns out to be all the positive cahnges he makes, not for being the "first African-American president," because I hope if you say that to students a hundred years from now, they'll say, "What's an African-American?"

Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
RadicalWhig
Shipmate
# 13190

 - Posted      Profile for RadicalWhig   Author's homepage   Email RadicalWhig   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Bucca, I share your concerns, as do many. Power corrupts, we all know that. Obama may well be a sheep in wolf's clothing. But I'm sure he's much less dangerous than McCain would have been.

There are two ways of looking at this:

(1) The positive way: The American people voted overwhelmingly against the war, loss of civil liberties, and the neo-conservative agenda, and have, in Obama, found someone who is able to reverse those policies, bring peace, restore the Bill of Rights, and help protect ordinary Americans against global oligarchic authoritarian capitalism.

(2) The negative way: Obama is a stooge of global oligarchic authoritarian capitalism, because the global oligarchic authoritarian capitalists have realised that they have failed to carry the people with them - the people have seen through neo-conservatism and have rejected it; this means that the global oligarchic authoritarian capitalists might have to make a few compromises, be a bit less authoritarian and a bit less capitalist.

So either way, it's a good thing for the 99.99% of us who are not members of the global oligarchic authoritarian capitalist elite; the only question is the EXTENT of the good thing. It is either very good, or only a little bit good.

If I were a Russian in the 1980s, I'd rather not have a Communist in charge, but better a Gorbachev than a Stalin; If I were a Frenhman in 1830, I'd rather not have a king, but better a Louis-Phillipe than a Charles X. In the same way, as a citizen of the so-called "Free West" in 2008, I'd rather not have a member of the global oligarchic authoritarian capitalist conspiracy in charge, but better an Obama than a McCain.

The Americans who voted for Obama now have the real challenge ahead - having taken back the "country", they now have to take back the Constitution and restore the Republic.

--------------------
Radical Whiggery for Beginners: "Trampling on the Common Prayer Book, talking against the Scriptures, commending Commonwealths, justifying the murder of King Charles I, railing against priests in general." (Sir Arthur Charlett on John Toland, 1695)

Posts: 3193 | From: Scotland | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Bucca
Shipmate
# 12995

 - Posted      Profile for Bucca     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
So you're not hopeful? What might have made you so?

Looking at Mr Obama....

Especially his "unite the world" and "I am a world citizen" speach in Berlin, or his attitude towards war in Afghanistan or potentially Pakistan or Iran.

I dont think McCain would have been any better, but I see Obama as a shiny wolf in sheeps clothing that has been sold to people the same way Blair was. The scenes in the US are reminiscent of over here in '97 with all the "things can only get better".....just before we learned about plans for ID Cards, Wars built on lies, desires for EU unity (and rulership), "faith and globalisation", the death of Dr Kelly, supporting the olympics in china, new plans for nuclear power stations, a replacement for trident, lack of serious comment on guantanamo/rendition......

Obama is cut from the same cloth as Blair. America, beware, you are on the verge of something nasty.

Oh I see! You are simply asserting a view of his character. You don't really have any evidence yet to support your "wolf in sheep's clothing" view. Just some kind of pre-existing view that politicians who speak in global terms are somehow not to be trusted. And maybe a bit of pattern-prediction, based on what? Blair disappointment? A caution about hitching any sort of wagon to Obama because he "looks shiny". It's not much of an argument, is it?

We're all going to "watch this space" of course. Obama is unproven in the highest office in the land. But why can't you just wish the man well? It's a tough enough job without the poisoned chalice he's inheriting. What's wrong with a bit of goodwill?

Listen to his speaches.

The general slant is that he is Globalist, and military interventionist, in nature; meaning he differs from Bush only in that he wants a unified response rather than a unilateral one.

A lot of people are holding him up as the potential great saviour of the US....which is disturbing in itself but meh, tis the nature of politics perhaps....however he is reaching out to a Global governance agenda (and before you ask, no I am not a nationalist [Big Grin] ) all to the rapturous applause of wide-eyed followers. Which, as I said, reminds me so much of Blair.

Now if you want to deny the past, feel free to (and feel free to repeat it as well), but the point stands.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208

 - Posted      Profile for Zach82     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Indiana is usually the first state the be called- this year it took the networks until 7am the next day to finally call it, but I officially live in a Blue State! [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

Zach

--------------------
Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice

Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bucca
Shipmate
# 12995

 - Posted      Profile for Bucca     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by RadicalWhig:
Bucca, I share your concerns, as do many. Power corrupts, we all know that. Obama may well be a sheep in wolf's clothing. But I'm sure he's much less dangerous than McCain would have been.

In the short-term, I would agree; but in the longer term I dont.

All over the media this morning is America seeing Obama as the great saviour of their nation, a good move in himself, which is EXACTLY how Blair was packaged over here; before heading off on the route I detailed above.

What evidence do I have that Obama is cut from the same cloth? The biggy is his Berlin speach, another is his acceptance speach today, a third are his comments regarding Pakistan and Afghanistan and the forth is the simple fact that he IS a politician (because politics works on a false premise: that you can legislate decency into existence).

quote:

There are two ways of looking at this:

(1) The positive way: The American people voted overwhelmingly against the war, loss of civil liberties, and the neo-conservative agenda, and have, in Obama, found someone who is able to reverse those policies, bring peace, restore the Bill of Rights, and help protect ordinary Americans against global oligarchic authoritarian capitalism.

Well, apart from the fact that they didnt vote overwhelmingly in any way at all (the Electoral College results make it seem that way but Obama only got 52% of the popular vote!), Obama has specifically said peace and security are his prime objectives (and in a global setting). He said this in his speach today.

When you believe in political means to peace and security, it ALWAYS leads to loss of liberty.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110

 - Posted      Profile for Barnabas62   Email Barnabas62   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I've read his books, Bucca, as well as listened to his speeches. I'm pretty sure you misjudge the man, but of course I could be wrong. Lets see what he does in office.

--------------------
Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

 - Posted      Profile for Pigwidgeon   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
(sad news here in Florida -- our "proposition 2" apparently passed, it's the same as California's 8... but with Obama in the White House I still have hope it will all be OK)

I've been telling myself the same thing this morning. In AZ it was #102, and it also passed [Mad] (mostly due to the large population of LDS here, who were spending tons of money on it). But that 106-year-old woman saw things change for women and for blacks, so I hope the new Administration and bluer Congress will make civil rights a priority for all people.

--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hiro's Leap

Shipmate
# 12470

 - Posted      Profile for Hiro's Leap   Email Hiro's Leap   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
When you believe in political means to peace and security, it ALWAYS leads to loss of liberty.

I'd have thought political means are always necessary for peace and security. If you have two groups of people in conflict (e.g. Northern Ireland) how else can they resolve things except through negotiation?

Whether liberty is lost or gained in the process is a different issue.

Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
passer

Indigo
# 13329

 - Posted      Profile for passer   Email passer   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
If Obama is assassinated between now and his inauguration, who becomes the next President?
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Bucca
Shipmate
# 12995

 - Posted      Profile for Bucca     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
When you believe in political means to peace and security, it ALWAYS leads to loss of liberty.

I'd have thought political means are always necessary for peace and security. If you have two groups of people in conflict (e.g. Northern Ireland) how else can they resolve things except through negotiation?

Whether liberty is lost or gained in the process is a different issue.

Politics and governance are about compromise and enforcement; truth is about neither of those things.

Just because a state is not one of chaos or personal absolutism, it does not then follow that it must be one of freedom, peace, truth and security. Politics and governance inhabits the middleground between those two points and as such can never bring the latter.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged
Hiro's Leap

Shipmate
# 12470

 - Posted      Profile for Hiro's Leap   Email Hiro's Leap   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
Just because a state is not one of chaos or personal absolutism, it does not then follow that it must be one of freedom, peace, truth and security. Politics and governance inhabits the middleground between those two points and as such can never bring the latter.

Sorry Bucca, I don't follow this at all. Can you elaborate?

Politics is never 100% of the solution to anything, but surely it often plays an important part of the process?

Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged
Zwingli
Shipmate
# 4438

 - Posted      Profile for Zwingli   Email Zwingli   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Bucca, I think you're way, way off. Obama is far more likely to be awful because he's left wing domestically and a protectionist internationally, than the kinds of things you're thinking of. As for his promise to use military force internationally (including inside Pakistan without Pakistani consent): yes, it's worrying. But when has there been a US President who was not like that? Last time was before Lincoln, is my guess.

At the moment I'm giving Obama about a 45% chance of being worse than Bush, 55% chance of being not as bad. Which means I have him at least 50-50 to be one of the worst Presidents in US history. Oh well, hopefully there are still Republicans who aren't neocons and they'll all unite and rally round to defeat Obama in 2012. I can only hope...

Posts: 4283 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bucca
Shipmate
# 12995

 - Posted      Profile for Bucca     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
Just because a state is not one of chaos or personal absolutism, it does not then follow that it must be one of freedom, peace, truth and security. Politics and governance inhabits the middleground between those two points and as such can never bring the latter.

Sorry Bucca, I don't follow this at all. Can you elaborate?

Politics is never 100% of the solution to anything, but surely it often plays an important part of the process?

Think of it as different general levels of maturity.

Firstly you have a state of chaos, where each wants things exactly as they demand it to be. Its from here that we get the Absolutist Tyrants (and where we all came from really as its the view of infants - and thus something for us to grow out of). To this view others are resources and servants (or enemies).

In the middle is the realm of compromise and trade; its what we learn to do as we mature out of childish absolutism and gain at least a degree of practicality or better yet empathy for others. This is where we find politics, governance and such notions as the social contract or morality as something that can be legislated; where we compromise in order to seek a degree of peace and security. The catch is, truth doesnt respond to compromise, so anything we try here always contains the seeds of its own destruction because it will never build a solid structure and will always leave a nasty taste for some.

At the other end of the scale from the chaos of tyranical absolutism is the place we *will* find lasting solutions to the problems the middle realm tries to face. Here we dont seek solutions through raw power (like the first approach) or compromise (like the second) but instead seek to build a common understanding of an underlying pre-existing truth that we are all beneath rather than something we try to manufacture.

Obama, like all politicians, is cut from the middle cloth; and this is why, for all their shiny promises, they can never produce what they promise.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  104  105  106  107  108  109  110  111 
 
Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
Open thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools