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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
moron
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# 206

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quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
Oh well, hopefully there are still Republicans who aren't neocons and they'll all unite and rally round to defeat Obama in 2012. I can only hope...

It will be interesting to see if any 'true' conservatives can get traction in the next few years; I imagine how aggressive Obama is with his 'liberal' agenda will be the key variable, second only to whether any true conservatives still exist. Where's Goldwater when you need him.

Somehow I think (Biden's inexplicable apocalyptic comment notwithstanding - he was reined in promptly) Obama is too shrewd to try to do too much, too fast.

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
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quote:
Originally posted by passer:
If Obama is assassinated between now and his inauguration, who becomes the next President?

That would be Joe Biden, VP elect, I'd say.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Zwingli
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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I find myself looking into obtaining citizenship in this great country. To pitch in and help.

Does this mean you'll have Stars and Stripes as your avatar?
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Sparrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
Just because a state is not one of chaos or personal absolutism, it does not then follow that it must be one of freedom, peace, truth and security. Politics and governance inhabits the middleground between those two points and as such can never bring the latter.

Sorry Bucca, I don't follow this at all. Can you elaborate?

Politics is never 100% of the solution to anything, but surely it often plays an important part of the process?

Think of it as different general levels of maturity.

Firstly you have a state of chaos, where each wants things exactly as they demand it to be. Its from here that we get the Absolutist Tyrants (and where we all came from really as its the view of infants - and thus something for us to grow out of). To this view others are resources and servants (or enemies).

In the middle is the realm of compromise and trade; its what we learn to do as we mature out of childish absolutism and gain at least a degree of practicality or better yet empathy for others. This is where we find politics, governance and such notions as the social contract or morality as something that can be legislated; where we compromise in order to seek a degree of peace and security. The catch is, truth doesnt respond to compromise, so anything we try here always contains the seeds of its own destruction because it will never build a solid structure and will always leave a nasty taste for some.

At the other end of the scale from the chaos of tyranical absolutism is the place we *will* find lasting solutions to the problems the middle realm tries to face. Here we dont seek solutions through raw power (like the first approach) or compromise (like the second) but instead seek to build a common understanding of an underlying pre-existing truth that we are all beneath rather than something we try to manufacture.

Obama, like all politicians, is cut from the middle cloth; and this is why, for all their shiny promises, they can never produce what they promise.

Sorry, I don't get it either. It seems like you are expecting perfection, and until such time as human beings have attained perfection, we will always need compromise.

--------------------
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Bucca
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
Just because a state is not one of chaos or personal absolutism, it does not then follow that it must be one of freedom, peace, truth and security. Politics and governance inhabits the middleground between those two points and as such can never bring the latter.

Sorry Bucca, I don't follow this at all. Can you elaborate?

Politics is never 100% of the solution to anything, but surely it often plays an important part of the process?

Think of it as different general levels of maturity.

Firstly you have a state of chaos, where each wants things exactly as they demand it to be. Its from here that we get the Absolutist Tyrants (and where we all came from really as its the view of infants - and thus something for us to grow out of). To this view others are resources and servants (or enemies).

In the middle is the realm of compromise and trade; its what we learn to do as we mature out of childish absolutism and gain at least a degree of practicality or better yet empathy for others. This is where we find politics, governance and such notions as the social contract or morality as something that can be legislated; where we compromise in order to seek a degree of peace and security. The catch is, truth doesnt respond to compromise, so anything we try here always contains the seeds of its own destruction because it will never build a solid structure and will always leave a nasty taste for some.

At the other end of the scale from the chaos of tyranical absolutism is the place we *will* find lasting solutions to the problems the middle realm tries to face. Here we dont seek solutions through raw power (like the first approach) or compromise (like the second) but instead seek to build a common understanding of an underlying pre-existing truth that we are all beneath rather than something we try to manufacture.

Obama, like all politicians, is cut from the middle cloth; and this is why, for all their shiny promises, they can never produce what they promise.

Sorry, I don't get it either. It seems like you are expecting perfection, and until such time as human beings have attained perfection, we will always need compromise.
We dont need compromise except to show us how compromise does not work. Its not expecting perfection, its being realistic and growing out of this notion that relativistic compromise brings peace. If you lose something, you seek to find it where you think that it is, not where you think will be easiest to look....
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Littlelady
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I am really happy with the result. I hope Obama is good for the US and good for the world. He has certainly managed to cross the divide that has dogged America for so long and attract people to vote for him from so many diverse backgrounds. He's also a real statesman. I very much look forward to watching how he turns out in the years to come.

And it will be a real bonus to look at and hear him! Nice to have a bit of eye candy as POTUS for a change! [Biased]

--------------------
'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe

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SeraphimSarov
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quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:


And it will be a real bonus to look at and hear him! Nice to have a bit of eye candy as POTUS for a change! [Biased]

Indeed it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Yipee]

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:


Oh well, hopefully there are still Republicans who aren't neocons and they'll all unite and rally round to defeat Obama in 2012. I can only hope...

I think Republicans need a pretty searching post-mortem about organisation as well as broad appeal. When you hear a guy like Karl Rove singing the praises of the Obama organisation and campaign management, you know its time for some pretty fundamental reappraisals.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
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quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:


And it will be a real bonus to look at and hear him! Nice to have a bit of eye candy as POTUS for a change! [Biased]

Indeed it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Yipee]
And a voice that won't send me heading for the mute button. I could never bear to hear Dubya's voice, and McCain's whine is like fingernails on a blackboard.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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Joy [Big Grin] . Nice one America - well done [Big Grin]

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Wesley J

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
[...] And a voice that won't send me heading for the mute button. I could never bear to hear Dubya's voice, and McCain's whine is like fingernails on a blackboard.

Totally agree. I'm glad I'm not the only one there. But it's soon over, folks. [Yipee]

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Sparrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
]We dont need compromise except to show us how compromise does not work. Its not expecting perfection, its being realistic and growing out of this notion that relativistic compromise brings peace. If you lose something, you seek to find it where you think that it is, not where you think will be easiest to look....

Sorry, I still don't get it. I must be very dense today, probably because of being up most of the night. But this still sounds like drivel to me.

--------------------
For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Geneviève

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The past 8 years had made me so disappointed and cynical, not only with the Bush administration but with my fellow Americans for going along with that rot--or at least enough of them.
But last night and still this morning, I do feel hopeful and excited. And proud, finally, of all of us for doing what desperately needed to be done.
Agree that both speeches were good. And I appreciated Obama's talk of sacrifice, and "this will be hard". Even if it was calculated, it is true. We have been fed garbage about how nothing in our [mostly]comfy lives has to change at all...
Enough rant...
What a thrill. A fact I am not proud of: my grandfather and uncles stood on the Montgomery Alabama courthouse steps some fifty+ years ago with then Gov. George Wallace to fight integration. I feel as if that horrendous moment has been in some sense redeemed.

[ 05. November 2008, 14:09: Message edited by: Geneviève ]

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"Ineffable" defined: "I cannot and will not be effed with." (Courtesy of CCTooSweet in Running the Books)

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Low Treason
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
]We dont need compromise except to show us how compromise does not work. Its not expecting perfection, its being realistic and growing out of this notion that relativistic compromise brings peace. If you lose something, you seek to find it where you think that it is, not where you think will be easiest to look....

Sorry, I still don't get it. I must be very dense today, probably because of being up most of the night. But this still sounds like drivel to me.
If it sounds like drivel and looks like drivel....

ISTM the essence of politics is,to quote Bismarck, the 'art of the possible' and in order to keep as many differing and opposing needs in tension, compromise is not only desirable, but essential.

A politician who ignores the need for compromise will have it thrust upon them nevertheless.

This is sometimes known as The Real World.

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He brought me to the banqueting house, and His banner over me was love.

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Scotus
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quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
If Obama is assassinated between now and his inauguration, who becomes the next President?

That would be Joe Biden, VP elect, I'd say.
I think technically it would be up to the electoral college to choose someone - the VP-elect only automatically takes the place of an incapacitated P-elect after the electoral collage has completed the formal election (until then they are officially P- and VP-designate, though that's a nicety most of the media has ignored).
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lapsed heathen

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mjg;
quote:
It will be interesting to see if any 'true' conservatives can get traction in the next few years
Funny how now that the whole conservative thing has been shown to be a turd in tinfoil, the supporters are claiming that it wasen't 'true' conservatism.
Shame you took eight years to cop on.

I hold no more hope that Obama will make much difference than anyone else would have. The damage done is so great that the corection is going to be too hard to deliver. Inspite of that when I hear him speak I can't help but hope.
"hand to the arch of history" what a fabulous turn of phrase.

--------------------
"We are the Easter people and our song is Alleluia"

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Og: Thread Killer
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Amazing how many people here stayed up last night and watched part if not all of what happened. Me, I first started watching US election results when Carter beat Ford; good to have the company for once.

I found myself switching away from anybody that mentioned the phrase "really interesting exit poll" as it always sounds like guesswork.

I found myself wanting to see the numbers, not just %'s across the bottom of the screen, so I gravitated to CNN.

Governor results seemed out of place in all this.

The local ABC affiliate in Buffalo stayed with Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune at 7 - that was a mistake. I barely watched ABC after that.


CNN did well when they got into county by county results in Indiana etc.

I found myself flipping back and waiting for the two older guys beside Katie Couric to talk, and when they looked a the map when it showed 207 for Obama and said "He's the next President of the United States.", we all knew it was over but didn't want to admit it yet.

Was that Gore Vidal on BBC there for a moment...I thought he was dead? Didn't catch the bit but it
sounded weird.

The sight of the 3 year old black kid on a white guy's shoulders (his Dad - who knows - who cares?) was what made me almost cry.

Jesse Jackson crying looked real but Oprah could have been less covered.

I was impressed with how the various press people (I avoided Fox) really got that this was history -respect to the guy on CNN who cried and talked about he will be able to tell people in 30 years he covered this election.

I missed the guy on NBC from Buffalo with the white board but it was nice to see his son.

McCain did a great speech.

Obama did a better one. And, I was silently praying against the gunshot that I feared would happen.

Somebody at some point said something about people wanting to come back and help out and how the media had to let those people come back without judging them. I suspect the leaders in a lot of countries will fear this populism as it brings a lot of expectations of vision and a downward push on cynicism.


All in all a night to reflect on change and hope.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
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quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
I wish I believed that President Obama was going to be half as wonderful and shiny as you all do.

Speaking only for myself here... it's not so much about Obama himself, though I do believe he was the better man for the job and for once there was a candidate I could vote for rather than against. It's what his election says about America. Looking at the celebrations last night in Grant Park and throughout the country, the one thing that struck me is that this is what America really looks like. Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Native/Indian, old, young, male, female, gay, straight, rich, poor -- this is what we really are and this is what the Founding Fathers intended. And the real America finally stepped up and said enough is fucking enough.

Realistically, I don't expect Obama to win reelection in 2012. There is just so much wrong with this country and it's going to require so many sacrifices from everyone that in four years the Republicans are going to have the election handed to them on a silver platter. My hope from this is that the neoconservative stranglehold on the Republican party is finally broken and they can go back to being respectable. I hope they take a long hard look at what catering to their batshit insane right wing base has cost them and make the changes that all of us desperately need them to make.

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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.

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Anna B
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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Realistically, I don't expect Obama to win reelection in 2012. There is just so much wrong with this country and it's going to require so many sacrifices from everyone that in four years the Republicans are going to have the election handed to them on a silver platter.

I think you're right about 2012, Erin. At the same time, what I like best about Obama is that he makes me want to sacrifice for my country. If he's one-tenth as smart as I think he is, he'll capitalize on this by raising up new and younger leaders to make an impact on society well beyond the next election.

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Bad Christian (TM)

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
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Did you notice in his speech the place where he came this close to saying "ask not what your country can do for you..."? Interesting, I thought.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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I thought, indeed, that the speech contained undoubtedly deliberate echoes of John F Kennedy, Dr King, Abraham Lincoln, and FDR. I can't wait for the inaugural address and for Obama to assume the presidency!
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Zwingli
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My guess is Obama will serve two terms. I think he will stay popular for quite a while. Unless he lurches too far to the left the main things he will do in the next four years, such as extracting the US from Iraq, and trying to do something about the financial mess, should prove popular. I think that people will remember Bush as something of a failure for at least four years, and they know from Vietnam and the Depression that you can't always get out of a war or a financial crisis overnight. He could even be like Clinton, and still be very popular at the end of his second term when he has to retire, though, like Clinton, that will most likely depend on having a Republican Congress at some point to rein in his more left-wing instincts.

The Republicans won't get the Presidency back in four years unless they can successfully re-orient their party. That means renouncing the worst of Bush and opposing Obama simultaneously. The logical way for them to go is a small government, low tax, no deficit party which doesn't advocate foreign wars or nation-building. I would love to see them adopt that platform immediately, but doubt they'll get that far within four years.

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Scot

Deck hand
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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
It's what his election says about America. Looking at the celebrations last night in Grant Park and throughout the country, the one thing that struck me is that this is what America really looks like. Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Native/Indian, old, young, male, female, gay, straight, rich, poor -- this is what we really are and this is what the Founding Fathers intended. And the real America finally stepped up and said enough is fucking enough.

On that point, I agree with you, but I would be more enthusiastic if so much of the rest of the election results hadn't betrayed such ignorance, fear, and bigotry.

I expect that the historical significance of the Obama administration will unfortunately be his race, not anything that he accomplishes. Even if Obama himself were perfect, he's still working with an entrenched Democratic establishment that, realistically, isn't much different than the Republican version.

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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by lapsed heathen:
Shame you took eight years to cop on.

That's me, always the last one on the uptake. [Hot and Hormonal]
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Orb

Eye eye Cap'n!
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quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Was that Gore Vidal on BBC there for a moment...I thought he was dead? Didn't catch the bit but it sounded weird.

Highlight of the entire night!

Like Galloway versus Paxman.

I love the way he starts off by mishearing and answering a different question!

"THEY LOVE WAR! THEY LOVE MONEY!"

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“You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.” Ursula K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed

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The5thMary
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quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
[...] And a voice that won't send me heading for the mute button. I could never bear to hear Dubya's voice, and McCain's whine is like fingernails on a blackboard.

Totally agree. I'm glad I'm not the only one there. But it's soon over, folks. [Yipee]
Not only did George W.'s voice make me cringe for his fake "folksy" style but I also hated the nervousness of waiting for him to mangle some easy sentence. I confess I thought Obama would do the same and then, after several minutes I realized, with a increasing sense of joy that Obama was not going to stumble over a simple word and wasn't going to attempt to placate us with little calculated homespun whimsy. I really wanted to weep then! Can you believe it? A man who knows how to speak and think!!!! What a blessing!

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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.

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The5thMary
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# 12953

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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I find myself looking into obtaining citizenship in this great country. To pitch in and help.

Wow! If even Rook is being kind and wanting to help others, the world really IS changing!!! First Gort and now you, Rook. Something brought out the kindness in you... I thought that was completely outside the realm of speculative fiction! What an amazing day!

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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.

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The5thMary
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# 12953

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quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
I wish I believed that President Obama was going to be half as wonderful and shiny as you all do. Still, change--almost any change--is welcome.

I am damned proud that America has become a place where a black man can be elected president.

It balances my shame that my state has voted to institutionalize discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Shit! That evil proposition passed??? FUCK! Stupid damn conservatives! If THEY didn't like Gay Marriage, THEY didn't ever have to have one. Bastards! Ok, I know I'll move my sentiments to the Hell thread! [brick wall]

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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.

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Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
# 12699

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I just saw Dubya congratulate Obama in a press conference on the lawn of the White House. Dubya looked chastened, to say the least.

We're FINALLY going to see the backside of him! [Big Grin]

Get out of Mr. Obama's White House!

Can I suggest that they go for full Morning Dress for the Inauguration? I know it hasn't been done in a while, but dammit, I want to see top hats and tails!

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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.

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art dunce
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¡OBAMANOS!

I couldn't be happier. I felt confident that Nuevo México would go Obama but what relieved when it finally happened. I stood in line for three hours to vote and in that time I only saw one person get out of line. That's the power of this election. I know most Latin@s and Natives voted Democratic even though historically this has not been the case. McCain has been good to Natives and yet yesterday there were First Americans for Obama everywhere. Latin@s have historically voted pro-life but this election they decided that wasn't enough. Both groups heavily support the military and I thought McCain was a gimme. But...then McCain slowly became what he claimed to despise, and lost honor in many eyes. And then we watched from our little corner of the desert on the edge of this great country as Palin insinuated that we were not "real Americans" and engaged in race baiting and fear mongering that was disheartening and offensive.

I don't know what the next four years will hold but today we are hopeful and proud. America is on the move and in a few years whites will be the minority. It is my fervent hope that all the people that worked so hard in this election can turn that energy and enthusiasm to other challenges. It is not Obama that will or will not change things, it has to be us working together. All the haters can crawl back into their holes and the rest of us can roll up our sleeves and get to work.

Last night looking at the Obama crowd in Chicago I thought of something Bono once said:

Love was on the move.

Mercy was on the move.

God was on the move.

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Ego is not your amigo.

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Bucca
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# 12995

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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
]We dont need compromise except to show us how compromise does not work. Its not expecting perfection, its being realistic and growing out of this notion that relativistic compromise brings peace. If you lose something, you seek to find it where you think that it is, not where you think will be easiest to look....

Sorry, I still don't get it. I must be very dense today, probably because of being up most of the night. But this still sounds like drivel to me.
The realm of politics is the easy place to look that wont produce solutions; but folks look there anyway because its easy.

It cannot prooduce peace because it is based on compromise and relativism; but truth isnt open to compromise, nor it it relativistic - and only truth can bring peace. Politics instead is a realm of noise, of arguement and trading-off. Evenually people will figure out you dont get peace when you are being all noisey [Smile]

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Anna B
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# 1439

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Bucca, I just want to buy you a plane ticket to Chicago so you can come sit in my house and help us all finish off the New Mexico sparkling wine. Deal?

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Bad Christian (TM)

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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# 11274

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quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
I just saw Dubya congratulate Obama in a press conference on the lawn of the White House. Dubya looked chastened, to say the least.

We're FINALLY going to see the backside of him! [Big Grin]

Get out of Mr. Obama's White House!

Can I suggest that they go for full Morning Dress for the Inauguration? I know it hasn't been done in a while, but dammit, I want to see top hats and tails!

I think it was last done by John Kennedy, so it would be very fitting indeed!
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Barnabas62
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# 9110

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quote:
Originally posted by Anna B:
Bucca, I just want to buy you a plane ticket to Chicago so you can come sit in my house and help us all finish off the New Mexico sparkling wine. Deal?

To judge from the most recent post, he may be far above such noisy compromise. However, I am not ...

Could I get to see the Bears as well?

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Anna B
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# 1439

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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Anna B:
Bucca, I just want to buy you a plane ticket to Chicago so you can come sit in my house and help us all finish off the New Mexico sparkling wine. Deal?

To judge from the most recent post, he may be far above such noisy compromise. However, I am not ...

Could I get to see the Bears as well?

Of course! (And we'd have to go to the symphony. "Bear Down, Bears" sing-along, dontcha know.)

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Bad Christian (TM)

Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
and only truth can bring peace....

But, until Christ returns, its our job to try.

Right this moment, I see 20 people in front of me either helping others or looking for work. I'd rather we try and bring peace then be perfect. If you want to give up, so be it. But, don't expect many of us to listen.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Hooker's Trick

Admin Emeritus and Guardian of the Gin
# 89

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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
I think it was last done by John Kennedy, so it would be very fitting indeed!

It was morning in America, actually.
Posts: 6735 | From: Gin Lane | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Nicolemr
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# 28

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This morning on the bus I suddenly got a feeling that wherever he is, my father is very happy about this.

My father died of Alzheimers in 2002, and was pretty much a vegetable for some time before he died. But one of the last things he remembered was President Franklin Roosevelt, and having been able to vote for him the first time he was old enough to vote. Once, before the Alzheimers, I had talked to my father about Roosevelt, and he said that the amazing thing about him was the coalition of diverse people he pulled together.

And looking at the coalition of people who elected Obama, I can't help but wonder, could he be my generation's FDR?

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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art dunce
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# 9258

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"I believe that in America there are many people who are awakened to the fact that violence cannot remove violence. They realize there is no way to peace: peace itself is the way. Those people must come together and voice their concern strongly and offer their collective wisdom to the nation so the nation can get out of this current situation. Every one of us has the duty to bring together that collective insight. With that insight, compassion will make us strong and courageous enough to bring about a solution for the world.

Thich Nhat Hanh

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Ego is not your amigo.

Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
IconiumBound
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# 754

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Signing on at this late hour I wondered why the thread had gone from page 103 to 108 intil I scanned the chat room atmosphere. The outpouring here models the voter surge.

I wanted to pass on an observation made by a older Jewish lady as we watched the returns shows. She said, "I think the impact of Obama's victory in the black community must be very like the impact that the founding of the State of Lsrael had on the Jewish community."

I wonder venture that the impact is not only in the black community but in the all coomunity colors: black, brown, yellow and red.

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Bucca
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# 12995

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quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
and only truth can bring peace....

But, until Christ returns, its our job to try.
No, its our job to let the Holy Spirit *do*. Too often people try to fill the gap with their own noise and action instead of letting the truth of the spirit shine through.

quote:
Right this moment, I see 20 people in front of me either helping others or looking for work. I'd rather we try and bring peace then be perfect. If you want to give up, so be it. But, don't expect many of us to listen.
We are at our least peaceful when we "try". It isnt about giving up, its about listening instead of thinking we can fix it.....

One day people may outgrow politics, when they learn it doesnt get anywhere lasting, and instead shut up for a while and let another take the lead [Smile]

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Organ Builder
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# 12478

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quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
One day people may outgrow politics...

[Killing me]

Not this side of the grave. I have yet to see a church without politics as well, even the most godly.

I voted for Obama and I am proud of it. I'm glad he won. I am old enough not to expect too much, however, and I'll be happy if he manages to keep the lights on and the doors open--muddling along until the next president of whatever party takes over from him. Call it cynical if you wish.

But this is the morning after. A lot of people are experiencing real joy from this outcome. A few others who have contributed to this thread over the last weeks are not overjoyed, but have nonetheless been gracious.

In a few more days the excitement and joy will die back naturally. I don't see that being a killjoy is going to make them more open to peace or the Holy Spirit.

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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson

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Bucca
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# 12995

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quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
One day people may outgrow politics...

[Killing me]

Not this side of the grave. I have yet to see a church without politics as well, even the most godly.

I voted for Obama and I am proud of it. I'm glad he won. I am old enough not to expect too much, however, and I'll be happy if he manages to keep the lights on and the doors open--muddling along until the next president of whatever party takes over from him. Call it cynical if you wish.

But this is the morning after. A lot of people are experiencing real joy from this outcome. A few others who have contributed to this thread over the last weeks are not overjoyed, but have nonetheless been gracious.

In a few more days the excitement and joy will die back naturally. I don't see that being a killjoy is going to make them more open to peace or the Holy Spirit.

Its not being a killjoy; its putting forward a different perspective (heaven forbid!) and one that has seen this jubilation in '97 here in England.....
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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
If Obama is assassinated between now and his inauguration, who becomes the next President?

That would be Joe Biden, VP elect, I'd say.
Amendment XX
Section 3.
If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

View online.

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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Paddy O'Furniture:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I find myself looking into obtaining citizenship in this great country. To pitch in and help.

Wow! If even Rook is being kind and wanting to help others, the world really IS changing!!! First Gort and now you, Rook. Something brought out the kindness in you... I thought that was completely outside the realm of speculative fiction! What an amazing day!
Maybe the Nurse finally got Rook's treatment right?

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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged
The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Scotus:
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
If Obama is assassinated between now and his inauguration, who becomes the next President?

That would be Joe Biden, VP elect, I'd say.
I think technically it would be up to the electoral college to choose someone - the VP-elect only automatically takes the place of an incapacitated P-elect after the electoral collage has completed the formal election (until then they are officially P- and VP-designate, though that's a nicety most of the media has ignored).
Of course, technically at the moment, Obama is not the President Elect. Only the electors for the real election in December have been chosen for the actual voting that matters.

In spite of some (so far unenforceable) state laws to the contrary, there really doesn't seem to be any realistic sanction against an elector that votes differently than expected. So, if something unfortunate does happen, it could be interesting times to see how all of Obama's electors would vote. I really don't want to find this out.

After the electors have voted, Amendment 20, Section 3, comes into play.

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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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agrgurich
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# 5724

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AS one of the 47% who didn't vote for him, I congratulate Barack Obama. This is a remarkable day for the USA.

(No, I haven't changed any of my opinions, but I wanted to give the new leader a tip of the old top hat.)

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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole

AJG

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Orb

Eye eye Cap'n!
# 3256

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quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
(No, I haven't changed any of my opinions, but I wanted to give the new leader a tip of the old top hat.)

Do you think you will have done after four years if the US is better financially and globally?

The people who made this historical day possible were those who were open-minded enough to change political allegiances. That, I hope, is the main legacy that Obama will leave - a legacy of bipartisanship.

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“You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.” Ursula K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed

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The Bede's American Successor

Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042

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quote:
Originally posted by Bucca:
He has openly declared himself on a Globalist agenda and platform and reminds me oh so much of Blair. Dont be so easily taken in by shiny wrapping, America.

Did you see the actual popular vote spread? It isn't that much.

The electoral vote landslide only shows that Obama has plurality/majority consistently over a large part on the country. That is, it shows breadth, not depth. It should keep the President away from the extremes.

This is one thing Bush never really got in his elections: breadth. Bush only had depth in some states (and not as many as you would have thought by the way he acted).

This should make the campaign tactics for a person running for POTUS much different than Prime Minister. You moderate to go for breadth of support, not necessarily depth of support. (Yes, I think choosing Palin hurt McCain because it went for depth of support from the base.)

Without this, the US would have New England, Florida, Texas, and California electing the President.

Fortunately, when a president goes for depth and not breadth, it doesn't take much of a flip of votes to solve the problem. This is what happened last night. And it can happen again.

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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.

—Ezekiel 16.49

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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513

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quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
The woman on Faux News just said that "McCain lost due to circumstances beyond his control." [Killing me]

Of course. The poor fellow has the Republican gene. It's not a choice.

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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.

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