homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools
Thread closed  Thread closed


Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Ship's Locker   » Limbo   » Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread (Page 12)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  ...  109  110  111 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
beza
Shipmate
# 10581

 - Posted      Profile for beza     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
President of the Mormon Church dies. Could be bad news for Romney as I assume he'll be attending the funeral, which will only bring the focus back on his religion.
Posts: 510 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580

 - Posted      Profile for Comper's Child     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Why would Romney be at the funeral? I don't recall Giuliani being at the last pope's funeral - or is Mitt Romney a Mormon official of some sort?
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
beza
Shipmate
# 10581

 - Posted      Profile for beza     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
Why would Romney be at the funeral? I don't recall Giuliani being at the last pope's funeral - or is Mitt Romney a Mormon official of some sort?

Quite possibly he would attend. He is a former lay bishop (equivalent to a minister) and stake president (equivalent to a bishop).

Besides, he is one of the most senior Mormon politicans so I'd be surprised if he wasn't invited. Sure, Guiliani wasn't at JP II's funeral, but then he's not identified as a senior Catholic public figure, he's just a public figure who happens to be Catholic. Ted Kennedy might be a better comparison - I'm pretty certain I recall him being at the pope's funeral.

Posts: 510 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580

 - Posted      Profile for Comper's Child     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Thanks, I hadn't realised how prominently involved he was in his religion.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
beza
Shipmate
# 10581

 - Posted      Profile for beza     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Ted Kennedy has endorsed Obama. Is this significant? Will it make a difference to the contest?
As a non American it certainly surprised me as I thought the Kennedys would back Hilary as the Democratic establishment candidate.

Posts: 510 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580

 - Posted      Profile for Comper's Child     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Caroline Kennedy (JFK's daughter) wrote a piece in the NY Times yesterday endorsing Obama as a "President like my father". It has to do with his philosophy of hope and inspiration - something sadly lacking in Ms Clinton's style.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by beza:
Ted Kennedy has endorsed Obama. Is this significant? Will it make a difference to the contest?
As a non American it certainly surprised me as I thought the Kennedys would back Hilary as the Democratic establishment candidate.

This is a very big deal, and it could make a significant difference. Ted Kennedy is enormously influential, and he doesn't usually endorse in primary races. He has not only endorsed Obama, he's going to go out and campaign for Obama. He could influence votes in the traditionally Democratic groups where Clinton has been stronger than Obama: Latinos, unions, blue-collar workers. And I think lots of the Democratic super-delegates will listen to him, as he is really the grand old man of the Democratic party.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439

 - Posted      Profile for Anna B     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I just watched Kennedy's endorsement on live streaming video and found it extremely interesting. He, Caroline Kennedy, and Congressman Patrick Kennedy Jr. all spoke in unusually personal terms of the family's contribution to American public life. Sen. Kennedy also spoke of the role of American young people in bringing an end to the Vietnam War. "It was the young people who..." he repeated several times. Clearly this was calculated to appeal not only to today's "young people" but to their parents! I think this has the potential to be a huge blow to Billary.

--------------------
Bad Christian (TM)

Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

 - Posted      Profile for Amazing Grace   Email Amazing Grace   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by beza:
President of the Mormon Church dies. Could be bad news for Romney as I assume he'll be attending the funeral, which will only bring the focus back on his religion.

I think as we move into Super-Duper Tuesday territory there's really not that much of an opportunity for a big momentum switch back like that. Two dozen states and a healthy percentage of the primary electorate are voting even now (with early/absentee voting - I'm probably going in tomorrow or the next day to cast mine). The election is not in Iowa any longer.

It'd be worse for him in a lot of ways if he didn't go IMO. (That either he was snubbed somehow for an invitation or he was too politically wrapped up to go.)

Charlotte

--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

 - Posted      Profile for Amazing Grace   Email Amazing Grace   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by beza:
Ted Kennedy has endorsed Obama. Is this significant? Will it make a difference to the contest?
As a non American it certainly surprised me as I thought the Kennedys would back Hilary as the Democratic establishment candidate.

This is a very big deal, and it could make a significant difference. Ted Kennedy is enormously influential, and he doesn't usually endorse in primary races. He has not only endorsed Obama, he's going to go out and campaign for Obama. He could influence votes in the traditionally Democratic groups where Clinton has been stronger than Obama: Latinos, unions, blue-collar workers. And I think lots of the Democratic super-delegates will listen to him, as he is really the grand old man of the Democratic party.
What Ruth said.

Especially when La Famiglia (including the usually not-very-political Caroline) seems to be presenting a united front.

This is a real change in the wind.

Charlotte

--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

 - Posted      Profile for Nicolemr   Author's homepage   Email Nicolemr   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Interestingly, I read that Robert Kennedy's children are all endorsing/planning to endorse Clinton.

Doesn't make the stir that Ted and Caroline do though.

--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

 - Posted      Profile for Amazing Grace   Email Amazing Grace   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Oops! I stand corrected. Thank you Nicole.

I am going to do my informal poll of the California Republican electorate in penance, aka call up my SIL and ask her if she (or my brother) has a preferred candidate. She was highly amused when she learned that I had switched registration to do strategic primary voting a while back. I also knew which way the wind was blowing at this point in the cycle in Feb '96 when my Orange County Republican brother answered "Bill Clinton" to my query at the same point in the electoral cycle without missing a beat. (He doesn't like Pat Robertson any more than I do.)

I might call my parents as well, who have likely already sent in their ballots, to see if I guessed right on who they're supporting.

If I can talk anyone out of voting for Huckabee (which I hope I did yesterday while setting up the annual meeting luncheon), I think I'm doing well.

Charlotte

--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

 - Posted      Profile for CorgiGreta         Edit/delete post 
This is huge. The only endorsement that I can think of that would even come close would be one by Al Gore.

Greta

Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
I am going to do my informal poll of the California Republican electorate in penance, aka call up my SIL and ask her if she (or my brother) has a preferred candidate.

I did my own informal poll of California Republicans recently when I talked to my parents, and they're voting for McCain. They're not super thrilled about him, but I think they figure he's the only one that's sane.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

 - Posted      Profile for CorgiGreta         Edit/delete post 
Sane, perhaps, but someone who looks, talks, and acts like one's grandfather who hasn't had a bowel movement in three days.

Greta

Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659

 - Posted      Profile for Choirboy   Email Choirboy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
There are lowered expectations for Republican candidates this year. Fortunately one of them exceeded the bar.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

 - Posted      Profile for Amazing Grace   Email Amazing Grace   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I suspect that at my dad, brother, and SIL - all fine examples of the vanishing breed Republicanus moderatus v. californiensis - are tending in that direction. Mom is more conservative and passes along those scare-mongering religious chain mails pretty regularly so she might be thinking elsewhere.

I'm trying to teach her about Snopes, but the latest twist in the scare-mongerer mail is to put in some vaguely-related thing from Snopes and claim that it supports the conclusion. I am just waiting to get the Obama-sliming mails [Ultra confused] .

ETA: Her birthday is the day before the primary so I might just have this conversation in person ( [Eek!] ).

Charlotte

[ 28. January 2008, 20:46: Message edited by: Amazing Grace ]

--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Sane, perhaps, but someone who looks, talks, and acts like one's grandfather who hasn't had a bowel movement in three days.

Very true. Perhaps therefore not the person we want to have his finger on the button.

AG: When I asked her who she and dad are voting for, Mom paused and said, "Well, we are still registered as Republicans ..."

[ 28. January 2008, 21:39: Message edited by: RuthW ]

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

 - Posted      Profile for Mad Geo   Email Mad Geo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I too have been hearing California Publicans leaning toward McCain. If this race goes Obama, and Bloomberg doens't run, I may have to embrace McCain myself. [Eek!] Gods, I hope not.

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
{Teddy} is really the grand old man of the Democratic party.

That always blows me away. That Teddy has actually killed a woman and still pontificates about the shit he pontificates about like the bastard blowhard that he is, I find incredible. Especially in the presumed party of the feminists. I literally want to hurl just to look at the prick much less listen to his bovine scatology.

It's such a clear example of "better the devil you know" that it is really laughable, and would turn me even more off to the parties, were it possible.

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
I may have to embrace McCain myself. [Eek!]

If you do, please take pictures. [Big Grin]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

 - Posted      Profile for Mad Geo   Email Mad Geo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Yeah, like I need a thumping by the SS. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

 - Posted      Profile for Amazing Grace   Email Amazing Grace   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
AG: When I asked her who she and dad are voting for, Mom paused and said, "Well, we are still registered as Republicans ..."

Interesting response! Do you think they'd jump party lines if they could for the primary?

Charlotte

--------------------
WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
# 5557

 - Posted      Profile for churchgeek   Author's homepage   Email churchgeek   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by beza:
Ted Kennedy has endorsed Obama. Is this significant? Will it make a difference to the contest?
As a non American it certainly surprised me as I thought the Kennedys would back Hilary as the Democratic establishment candidate.

This is a very big deal, and it could make a significant difference. Ted Kennedy is enormously influential, and he doesn't usually endorse in primary races. He has not only endorsed Obama, he's going to go out and campaign for Obama. He could influence votes in the traditionally Democratic groups where Clinton has been stronger than Obama: Latinos, unions, blue-collar workers. And I think lots of the Democratic super-delegates will listen to him, as he is really the grand old man of the Democratic party.
Personally, as a Democrat, I don't care who Ted Kennedy endorses or doesn't, but I know he's at least as hated as the Clintons by many Republicans. So I wonder if his endorsement of Obama might have a chilling effect on Obama's potential to draw otherwise Republican voters? Might be a moot point - for all I know, Republicans who hate the Clintons and the Kennedys probably wouldn't cross party lines to vote for any Democrat, and may have independent reasons to not like Obama. Still, I wonder... I mean, if I were considering voting for a Republican, and Karl Rove or Dick Cheney endorsed him or her, I would think twice - but I'd look into why they endorsed the candidate, and in the end, make my own decision about the candidate's positions and qualifications. But it would make me think twice.

--------------------
I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580

 - Posted      Profile for Comper's Child     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
I too have been hearing California Publicans leaning toward McCain. If this race goes Obama, and Bloomberg doens't run, I may have to embrace McCain myself. [Eek!] Gods, I hope not.

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
{Teddy} is really the grand old man of the Democratic party.

That always blows me away. That Teddy has actually killed a woman
This is a libelous remark IMHO. There was an accident. A woman died. He survived. Did he do all that he ought to have done? Who knows? Do you have a window into his soul? He's no favorite of mine, but he's not a murderer.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

 - Posted      Profile for Mad Geo   Email Mad Geo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
[Killing me]

So have Ted Kennedy sue me. Good luck with that.

Ted Kennedy benefitted from killing someone in an era where it would be easier to cover up and walk away from. Do you honestly think he would get away without Manslaughter charges (at minimum) in THIS day and age?

Let's look at the situation. Just for kicks.

A notorious Drinker, if not Drunk, parties. Leaves the scene. Speeds away from a cop. Drives off a bridge killing girl. Trys to save her, sort of. Goes to sleep in hotel at 2 am. Diver testifies she appeared to have been using an air bubble to survive, may have survived long enough if he hadn't fucked it up. Alleged drunk gets a two month MANDATORY sentence (even then) which is suspended.

I wonder what the current laws on DUI, leaving the scene of an accident, manslaughter, etc. might have done to Teddy in THIS era? I mean look at what they did to Clinton I for a mere B.J.....

Ted Kennedy on Nixon (1973):

quote:
"Do we operate under a system of equal justice under law? Or is there one system for the average citizen and another for the high and mighty?"

Indeed....

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

 - Posted      Profile for Mad Geo   Email Mad Geo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Personally, as a Democrat, I don't care who Ted Kennedy endorses or doesn't, but I know he's at least as hated as the Clintons by many Republicans. So I wonder if his endorsement of Obama might have a chilling effect on Obama's potential to draw otherwise Republican voters? Might be a moot point - for all I know, Republicans who hate the Clintons and the Kennedys probably wouldn't cross party lines to vote for any Democrat, and may have independent reasons to not like Obama. Still, I wonder... I mean, if I were considering voting for a Republican, and Karl Rove or Dick Cheney endorsed him or her, I would think twice - but I'd look into why they endorsed the candidate, and in the end, make my own decision about the candidate's positions and qualifications. But it would make me think twice.

Very interesting point(s).

I think Teddy is more of a gift than a liability to democrats in general. But you're right, I used to hate Hillary with a white hot passion, but I STILL despised Teddy more. What a scumbag.

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644

 - Posted      Profile for Beeswax Altar   Email Beeswax Altar   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Not me. I hate the Clintons far more. I wasn't alive for the Chappaquidick (or however you spell it). When I heard about it, it seemed absurd that he was able to stay in the Senate after it. My guess is that if two of his brothers hadn't been assasinated within 7 years of the incident he wouldn't have managed to salvage his political career. It did cost him the presidency in 76.

Still, the pure hypocrisy and dishonesty of the Clintons disgusted me. They always seemed to get a pass on it. There pulling the same stuff on Obama. Ted Kennedy's endorsement won't hurt Obama. In fact, Kennedy's endorsement of Obama raises my level of respect for Kennedy. Obama needed somebody of equal stature with Bill Clinton to be his equalizer. I always thought it would be Al Gore looking for payback. My guess is this hurts Clinton more. The Clintons and Kennedys were close during the Clinton administration.

I don't like Ted Kennedy as a person. He's far to the left of me. Still, I always thought he was a passionate defender of what he believed. The Clintons don't seem to be that way. On the Republican side, Romney is much the same way. If the election comes down to Romney and Clinton, I'm staying at home...or writing somebody in.

--------------------
Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan

Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Re Chappaquidick:

Years ago, I saw Mary Jo's sister on tv ("60 Minutes"?). IIRC, she said she didn't blame Ted Kennedy for her sister's death, but she did blame him for not coming forward with what he knew.

FWIW.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335

 - Posted      Profile for SeraphimSarov   Email SeraphimSarov   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
yeah,

It is really ironic to see Hillary and Bill portraying themselves as "Real Democrats" when they were knee deep with the DLC for years.

--------------------
"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
GoodCatholicLad
Shipmate
# 9231

 - Posted      Profile for GoodCatholicLad     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re Chappaquidick:

Years ago, I saw Mary Jo's sister on tv ("60 Minutes"?). IIRC, she said she didn't blame Ted Kennedy for her sister's death, but she did blame him for not coming forward with what he knew.

FWIW.

That's just as bad if not worse! he's a coward on top of it!

That whole Kennedy family is morally repugnant with the exception of Bobby. With their sense of ethics and morality they could make Caligula blush. They are the definition of the word Reprobate. I remember awhile back the press was always going on about "America's royal family" BLEH GMAFB!! I saw this docu back in November on them, the whole rotten tree started with that closet Nazi old man. I've never seen a family where karma is constantly kicking their ass.

--------------------
All you have is right now.

Posts: 1234 | From: San Francisco California | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

 - Posted      Profile for Mad Geo   Email Mad Geo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
[Killing me]

Don't hold back there Catholic Lad! [Biased]

Well said!

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Duo Seraphim
Ubi caritas et amor
# 256

 - Posted      Profile for Duo Seraphim   Email Duo Seraphim   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Just a reminder to all that while defamation/libel law is not what you lot seem to think it is, accusing another poster of posting libellous comments is personal attack in my book. Please leave this sort of speculation to those whose job it is to worry about it ie the Admins and Hosts.

I also suggest that the "history of the Kennedy family" tangent should be spun off into another thread if people are that keen, with rather more in the way of factual backing for some of the statements made in the last few posts.

Duo Seraphim, Purgatory Host

--------------------
Embrace the serious whack. It's the Catholic thing to do. IngoB
The Messiah, Peace be upon him, said to his Apostles: 'Verily, this world is merely a bridge, so cross over it, and do not make it your abode.' (Bihar al-anwar xiv, 319)

Posts: 7952 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
So...if HIllary relegates Bill to supportive spouse status, will that help her chances?

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

 - Posted      Profile for ken     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Kennedy? Gore? This is a real difference between US and UK politics. We really don;t have grand old men and women who can influence current elections by supporting this or that policy or candidate.

Most of our retired prime ministers and other senior parliamentarians are more or less ignored by everyone still active. In the late 1980s and the 1990s Healey and Callaghan mostly kept their mouths shut on major issues. Macmillan and Heath were major critics of their own party, which paid them no mind at all. Michael Foot and Tony Benn and Tam Dalyell and half a dozen other old Labour rhetoriticians were the beloved elders of their party, looked on with affection by all (in public - what goes on in the smoke-filled rooms is something else) but had samn all effect on policy. Even the Tories try to keep Margaret Thatcher under wraps, and did before she got ill. They know that an endorsement from her would be an electoral liability. (for a Labour politician it would be the kiss of death). If they are still compos mentis and don't want to spend the rest of their lives on the boards of banks (so much more dignified than public speaking tours of the Midwest) or farming in Sussex, or writing books about photography, then we pack them off to run committees in the EU, or to the other side of the world to govern other people's countries. Which funnily enough we still have plenty of openings for, despite the so-called loss of Empire.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
beza
Shipmate
# 10581

 - Posted      Profile for beza     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I think in the case of Thatcher, her support was influential, although probably not decisive, in the selection of Major, Hague and Ian Duncan Smith as leaders of the Tories. I also remember her prominent role in the 2001 election campaign, "The Mummy Returns" speech, remember that? People certainly took notice of that and it probably cost the Tories votes, though again nowhere near being decisive.

I seem to recall Healey and Callaghan caused the Labour Party problems over defence, particularly nuclear weapons.

On the whole I agree with you though, Ken. I am not sure it is always a good thing we don't take much notice of elder statesmen/women. A symptom of our ageist attitudes perhaps?

Posts: 510 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

 - Posted      Profile for ken     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Yes, you are right, but it was the smoke-filled room stuff.

What we have on this thread is various elder statesmen and younger brothers of dead presidents coming out in support publiclly and ordinary voters, not party hacks, going "Gosh! maybe there is something in this Obama bloke after all!" I don't think we get quite the same thing.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

 - Posted      Profile for Pigwidgeon   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Lots of politicians, former politicians, relatives of dead politicians feel a need to endorse a candidate. So do entertainers. So do newspapers. But I don't know of anyone who responds "Gosh! maybe there is something in this Obama* bloke after all!"

*or fill in the name of your choice.

I like to think that most of us think for ourselves, but maybe I'm wrong.

--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959

 - Posted      Profile for tclune   Email tclune   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by GoodCatholicLad:
I remember awhile back the press was always going on about "America's royal family" BLEH GMAFB!!

This just shows your limitations. Any country that actually has a royal family understands that this is not a compliment...

--Tom Clune

--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.

Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
moron
Shipmate
# 206

 - Posted      Profile for moron   Email moron   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
But I don't know of anyone who responds "Gosh! maybe there is something in this Obama* bloke after all!"

You may be right but don't overlook the 'sea change' aspect of this: some case could be made Hillary was the democratic machine's candidate of choice and the nomination hers to lose.

All of a sudden this guy shows up who hasn't paid anywhere near the 'dues' Hillary has and ends up with the endorsement of someone who typically represents the machine. Assuming there is anything new under the sun, this might be one of those things and I wonder what motivated Kennedy to go off the ranch?

One theory is Clinton fatigue: even the people who respect their democrat bonafides have had enough of them personally and Bill's nastiness in this campaign was the final straw.

Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959

 - Posted      Profile for tclune   Email tclune   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
But I don't know of anyone who responds "Gosh! maybe there is something in this Obama* bloke after all!"

You may be right but don't overlook the 'sea change' aspect of this: some case could be made Hillary was the democratic machine's candidate of choice and the nomination hers to lose.

All of a sudden this guy shows up who hasn't paid anywhere near the 'dues' Hillary has and ends up with the endorsement of someone who typically represents the machine.

It means something to me, and I would be happy to say why: My big reservation about Obama is that he's an unknown quantity to me. And having been in Washington for a while is a double-edged sword -- you know how the game is played, so you can be effective, but you also know how the game is played, so you have lost your interest in being effective for others...

Senator Kennedy's endorsement is from a man who truly knows how Washington works. While I have been as disappointed with him personally as I am with Bill Clinton, Sen. Kennedy is a man of political principle, and within that sphere is genuinely respecable (a point that one cannot make about Bill, who has no redeeming value at all that I have been able to see).

When Sen. Kennedy (who normally does not endorse anyone during the Presidential primaries) says that Obama is up to the job, I weigh the fact that he has worked with Obama over the last six years and is wise enough in the ways of Washington to know. I was probably going to vote for Obama anyway, but this endorsement certainly raises my comfort level with that decision.

--Tom Clune

--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.

Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
MrSponge2U

Ship’s scrub
# 3076

 - Posted      Profile for MrSponge2U   Author's homepage   Email MrSponge2U   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
I think that Kennedy's endorsement may also signal some nervousness among top Democratic leaders about Hillary's chances in the general election, that she could possibly lose to someone like McCain. Obama may be seen as the candidate to be more of a sure thing to beat any of the top Republicans.

--------------------
sig? what sig?

Posts: 3558 | From: where two big rivers meet | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
What tclune said. I'm not going to vote for someone just because Ted Kennedy says so, but that he supports Barack Obama is meaningful to me because he has experience I don't and can't have. Similarly, I pay attention to what groups like California Church Impact, Common Cause, and the League of Women Voters say about ballot propositions; they do research I don't have the time or inclination to do and their values are in line with mine.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

 - Posted      Profile for Rossweisse     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by GoodCatholicLad:
That whole Kennedy family is morally repugnant with the exception of Bobby. With their sense of ethics and morality they could make Caligula blush. ...

Why "with the exception of Bobby"? I believe he did some morally repugnant things as attorney general.

An endorsement from Senator Kennedy would not carry much weight in my books.

Ross

--------------------
I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Yeah, but you're not in one of the constituencies they're trying to reach.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

 - Posted      Profile for Rossweisse     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Well, I am a socially liberal independent, albeit fiscally conservative. But if the Republicans are going to throw around money irresponsibly while pushing a socially conservative agenda and a morally reprehensible war, I'll look seriously at a Democrat who at least won't support the latter two.

Ross

--------------------
I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

 - Posted      Profile for Mad Geo   Email Mad Geo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
Sen. Kennedy is a man of political principle, and within that sphere is genuinely respecable (a point that one cannot make about Bill, who has no redeeming value at all that I have been able to see).

Well after trolling around his voting record and then Obama's I can't say that I disagree with your analysis regarding Kennedy's political principles. The idea of political "principle" from an otherwise amoral dirtbag, I find mildly nauseating.

Although I understand why people that are firmly in the liberal democratic camp would be attracted to either of them, I think it makes Obama unelectable (to the presidency) ultimately. Sooner or later the Republicans will throw the "Liberal" Flag really high in the air and that will sink Obama, unless America really is holding a grudge on Publicans after Bush.

I may be wrong but relatively liberal democrats don't win elections. Moderates do. Ironically, relatively conservative Republicans do win elections. Go figure.

If Obama gets the candidacy, we will have a liberal democrat and possibly a moderate Republican (McCain presumably). I guess that will test my theory.

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659

 - Posted      Profile for Choirboy   Email Choirboy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
All of a sudden this guy shows up who hasn't paid anywhere near the 'dues' Hillary has and ends up with the endorsement of someone who typically represents the machine.

Kennedy is actually not really part of the Democratic machine - or at least, not the same Democratic machine as the Clintons. The Clintons were pushed by the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), which, despite its name, is not a committee of the Democratic party. Hillary Clinton is, in fact, a member of the Leadership Team of the DLC. Kennedy is not.

From the DLC website: "The Democratic Leadership Council is an idea center, catalyst, and national voice for a reform movement that is reshaping American politics by moving it beyond the old left-right debate."

So, in effect, ditching Democratic traditional progressive values and being the sort of 'third way' politician represented by Bill Clinton and Tony Blair.

I don't think Kennedy would necessarily endorse Obama because Clinton is part of the DLC. I don't recall him opposing Bill Clinton's pursuit of the nomination by endorsing someone else (I could be wrong). I think the conclusion is rather 1) Clinton will mobilize the disorganized and dispirited Republican base, possibly costing the party the Presidency in a year when they should be shoo-ins and 2) she's also DLC, which doesn't really represent the wing of the party Kennedy would be indentified with.

Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
I may be wrong but relatively liberal democrats don't win elections. Moderates do. Ironically, relatively conservative Republicans do win elections. Go figure.

If Obama gets the candidacy, we will have a liberal democrat and possibly a moderate Republican (McCain presumably). I guess that will test my theory.

It shows how far the country has moved to the right that you can call Obama a liberal with a straight face. He's not a liberal. Kucinich is a liberal.

quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
Well, I am a socially liberal independent, albeit fiscally conservative.

But you are not, to my knowledge, a union member, a Latino, or a blue-collar worker, i.e., a member of one of the groups who stand a good chance of caring about Kennedy's endorsement.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898

 - Posted      Profile for New Yorker   Email New Yorker   Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
It shows how far the country has moved to the right that you can call Obama a liberal with a straight face. He's not a liberal. Kucinich is a liberal.

Huh? Obama is a liberal. He supports bigger government, less private initiative, higher taxes, socialized medicine, etc.

What's wrong with calling a liberal a liberal?

Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

 - Posted      Profile for RuthW     Send new private message       Edit/delete post 
Again, only from a very rightish perspective does Obama appear liberal. This chart showing where the various candidates for president fall on the left-right and authoritarian-liberatarian axes has probably already been referred to on this thread, but it's worth another look.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  ...  109  110  111 
 
Post new thread  
Thread closed  Thread closed
Open thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools