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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Gravel Rocks!
As a geologist THAT was really ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
The Zen of Mike Gravel's political campaign.
[56K'ers: youtube closeup video of Gravel staring blank-faced into camera on shore of tree-lined lake. For one full minute, Gravel continues to stare unspeaking into your eyes as background sounds of crows, children playing and distant car traffic are heard. He suddenly turns away, walks along the shore, stops, picks up a large rock and drops it into lake, then continues walking along shore, disappearing into distance for next 90 seconds. Not a word is spoken during entire ad.]
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
He could also be called "First Bubba".
How about simply "Adam"?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Rob:
You're obviously insane.
Can't really argue but give me credit for having the guts to make a prediction.
Interesting there's been little or no mention of third parties. The last two elections I finally decided voting my conscience is no waste: W is not my fault, and Hillary (or whoever) won't be either. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
And my take in 1992 was that Perot siphoned off enough conservative votes to elect Bill who won with only 43% of the vote. If Bloomberg runs, where do you suppose his votes will come from?
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
President George W. Bush declares national emergency and cancels presidential election. Riots break out in major US cities. Bush declares martial law and suspends civil liberties. Hundreds of thousands of protesters incarcerated as militant combatants.
What is scary is that there are people who seriously believe things like this. I recall some of my gay acquaintances who really thought that if Bush won the election they would be rounded up and sent to internment counts. I still ask them how they avoided capture. Mostly they just don't answer the question!
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
I know Hillary has a huge lead in the polls... But I can't figure out who they're polling, since everyone I've talked to thinks her candidacy and/ or presidency would be a disaster.
The media also says that women will vote for her in droves. Yet most - not all - but most women I know here in Manhattan really don't like her and claim that they will not vote for her.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Some days, I worry that Dubya is trying to start Armageddon, so that Jesus will return soon and be proud of him.
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Are you suggesting that there may be reason to doubt this notion?
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by maleveque:
Clinton/Obama by a landslide. Or maybe Clinton/Richardson.
I heard that Gov. Bill made some sort of off-hand jokey remark that peeved HRC, so he was unlikely to be tapped for a ticket by her.
Otherwise by traditional geographical mixin' rules, he'd be a good choice. (Personally I think that anyone who can get the North Koreans to visit AND takes them out for "a bowl of green" is worth watching.)
It's about time for me to decide if I want to switch my party registration (back, actually) for the primaries. Damn, I hate this early primary season. I used to work with our county's elections office, so know what a PITA randomly pushing the election up a month or three is, even if there isn't the voting machine hoohah (which there is).
Charlotte
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
President George W. Bush declares national emergency and cancels presidential election. Riots break out in major US cities. Bush declares martial law and suspends civil liberties. Hundreds of thousands of protesters incarcerated as militant combatants.
What is scary is that there are people who seriously believe things like this. I recall some of my gay acquaintances who really thought that if Bush won the election they would be rounded up and sent to internment counts. I still ask them how they avoided capture. Mostly they just don't answer the question!
New yorker, I can assure you, wacky conspiratorial bovine scatology is hardly the purvue of the Left. I have Republican friends that are convinced that Opus Dei, the Shriners, and the Masons are secretly planning to take over the US for (insert nefarious purpose). And don't even ask them about Mexicans and/or China.
Every time they start in, I tell them that the way I know a Conspiracy Theorist is full of shit is that they are breathing. Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy all by himself. 9-11 was caused by a bunch of terrorists called Al Queda. Revelation is about ancient Rome, not the future.
Conspiracy theorists of either stripe need to get out in the fresh air more often and listen to Mozart on their iPods so their hyperactive overimaginative brains can get a rest.
Not that I have strong opinions on the subject or anything. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
Interesting there's been little or no mention of third parties.
Actually we did, tangentially. I think Bloomberg may save me from having to sell my soul to the Clinton devil.
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
our governor's husband is known as the "First Dude" it started as a joke, but it stuck. even the papers address him that way. ol' Bill could be a first Dude.
I'm thinking "First Stud".
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
I have Republican friends that are convinced that Opus Dei, the Shriners, and the Masons are secretly planning to take over the US for (insert nefarious purpose).
Yep. I've always figured if you don't like Masons then just can with a different jar.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
I see little in current US politics or world events that reassures this paranoid. When attempting to consider the '08 presidential campaigns unfolding as some rationally predicable routine, I can't help a sense of foreboding doom. There are too many serious international political and economic events on the table to think our elections will proceed in some comfortable vacuum.
How would the Bush administration react to another catastrophic terrorist attack here one week before the election? His entire executive policy history has been founded on maintaining public paranoia to justify his decisions. What's new to suggest that strategy has changed? The man is a puppet controlled by right-wing, war-mongering neocons. It's difficult to see the bastard going quietly back to cut brush at the ranch. I don't see the cabal that installed him giving up the reign without a struggle.
...my therapist agrees.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
If Clinton wins, it will get to the stage that 28-year-old Americans will have known no other President than a Clinton or a Bush. Seems more like dynasty than democracy...
That's one of the objections I hear frequently. I'll be 31 when Dubya leaves office, and 20 of those years will have been spent under the rule of two families. I'm not keen on extending that.
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
The media also says that women will vote for her in droves. Yet most - not all - but most women I know here in Manhattan really don't like her and claim that they will not vote for her.
Oh, I'll vote for her if she wins the nomination (unless some stellar as-yet unknown candidate magically appears). I'm just not silly enough to think that she represents my interests just because she's a woman (Thatcher, anyone?).
There's too much important stuff that needs to be done to worry about symbolism right now. And I don't think the media or the Republicans will let her get anything done. Not necessarily because she's a woman, but because she's Hillary.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Gort,
I know you automatically have metal on your head, but please remove the tinfoil hat from under it.
The U.S. has been under pressure before. It will again. Even the Neo-Cons wouldn't fuck up the good thing the U.S. has going (no matter how much we kvetch about our favorite going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket theories). Neo-Cons like business. Military Juntas and/or forced takeover by the neo-cons is bad for business.
Now go take a pill, meditate, relax, whatever. 2008 will be here shortly and we will watch the bastards leave. (Unless the election is split and the SCOTUS decides, of course)
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
I forgot to add:
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
To gort.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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chadevan
Apprentice
# 12786
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Posted
NadGeo:
Amen. I remember in the period leading up to the 2000 election, there were rumours circulating among rightwingers (and no doubt planted by the Bush campaign) that if Gore won he would a.outlaw the Bible and b. confiscate everyone's hunting rifles.
Blinkered paranoia is, alas, all too common on the Left and the Right.
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Cast a cold eye
on life, on death.
Horseman, pass by!
--W.B. Yeats
Posts: 41 | From: Faulkner Country | Registered: Jul 2007
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Welcome to the Ship Chadevan! And thanks for the complement!
Glad you noticed.
"NadGeo"
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
New yorker, I can assure you, wacky conspiratorial bovine scatology is hardly the purvue of the Left. I have Republican friends that are convinced that Opus Dei, the Shriners, and the Masons are secretly planning to take over the US for (insert nefarious purpose). And don't even ask them about Mexicans and/or China.
Please PM your address. Now that you are aware of this fact my friends at Opus Dei will have to pay you a little visit.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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The Bede's American Successor
Curmudgeon-in-Training
# 5042
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Whoever gets into office had BETTER raise taxes, and not to spend more but to pay off GWs idiocies!
Madge and I agree on taxes. New Yorker and I agree about HC's personality.
Gort just may be right. The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse must be riding over Snoqualmie Pass right now.
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This was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride of wealth and food in plenty, comfort and ease, and yet she never helped the poor and the wretched.
—Ezekiel 16.49
Posts: 6079 | From: The banks of Possession Sound | Registered: Oct 2003
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
People complain about Bush's spending. And they have a point. But don't forget nothing can be spend with Congress okaying it and they are not exactly cheapskates.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse must be riding over Snoqualmie Pass right now.
In which direction?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
People complain about Bush's spending. And they have a point. But don't forget nothing can be spend with Congress okaying it and they are not exactly cheapskates.
He had his own party in the majority in the senate and the house until this past November, didn't he? There's alot to be said for different parties controlling the White House and congress.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Got that right, gridlock is our friend.
That's one mroe thing that worries me about Hillary getting into office. No real checks and balances.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Of course, in a pathetic attempt at creating a self-fulfilling prophecy I'll be posting stuff which supports my prediction.
quote:
Yet former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, also the front-runner among Republican candidates for president, rates significantly better than some of his better-known rivals on this question. That includes former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Sen. Fred Thompson of Tennessee.
snip
The findings of Gallup’s Nov. 2-4 survey -- which also portrays Clinton six percentage points ahead of Giuliani in a hypothetical election match-up -- suggest that “while Clinton is well respected by Democrats, she runs a deficit among Republicans relative to her Democratic challengers -- one that could have implications for the general election if it persists.’’
And MG: I predict if Hillary is elected that in 2010 you'll see 1994 redux - the repubs will rule both the senate and congress. It's like the American public is somehow collectively savvy about the benefits of gridlock...
who was it that talked about the benefits of being ruled by the first five hundred names in the phonebook?
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chadevan:
NadGeo:
Amen. I remember in the period leading up to the 2000 election, there were rumours circulating among rightwingers (and no doubt planted by the Bush campaign) that if Gore won he would a.outlaw the Bible and b. confiscate everyone's hunting rifles.
Blinkered paranoia is, alas, all too common on the Left and the Right.
I never heard a. and what I heard about b. mostly had to do with handguns. Some of the local talk radio hosts around here at the time were conspiracy theorists to the max, so it seems we would have heard about that. We did hear that Clinton was having old military bases turned into concentration camps for his political opponents.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Here's someone I hadn't considered - this race has great entertainment potential.
quote:
Lou Dobbs for President? Don't laugh. After months of telling reporters that he "absolutely" would not consider leaving his highly-rated CNN show in which he crusades against free trade and illegal immigration, Mr. Dobbs posted a commentary on his Web site last week predicting a surprise new presidential candidate in 2008. The mystery candidate is an "independent populist . . . who understands the genius of this country lies in the hearts and minds of its people and not in the prerogatives and power of its elites."
snip
His playbook would be similar to that of Ross Perot in 1992, who didn't enter the presidential race until the major parties began holding their primaries but quickly shot up to 25% in many polls.
Perot got 19% (!) of the vote, even with James 'Who am I? Why am I here?' Stockdale for veep.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
quote:
"the genius of this country lies in the hearts and minds of its people"
Isn't it widely believed that all politicians lie in the hearts and minds of their people?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
I never heard a. and what I heard about b. mostly had to do with handguns. Some of the local talk radio hosts around here at the time were conspiracy theorists to the max, so it seems we would have heard about that. We did hear that Clinton was having old military bases turned into concentration camps for his political opponents.
It used to be that you knew that if the right were screaming in pain, things were broadly speaking going OK. Now its just background noise.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beautiful Dreamer
Shipmate
# 10880
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
You know you want to feed your addiction, and the doctor is in.
Clinton/Obama lose by two percentage points to Guiliani/Huckabee.
Guiliani's proven administrative prowess wins him the nomination and Huckabee's appeal to southern/conservative voters wins him the south and rural areas generally.
Clinton's savvy and conciliatory choice of Obama is not enough to overcome the baggage Bill has saddled her with, and in the privacy of the voting booth not enough people pull the lever for her.
(If Bloomberg runs I reserve the right to revise this, and it's a damn shame Paul probably won't get much traction, if for no other reason than to sway the debate.)
Has Guliani named a running mate?
What I cannot get my head around is why Pat Robertson is endorsing him. Guliani is a lapsed Catholic (Pat Robertson and his ilk do not consider Catholics to be Christians at all for the most part), he is pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, two things Robertson basically said caused 9/11. So why pick him to endorse rather than someone else who seems to fit Robertson's religious bill a bit more (like Huckabee)? Does he just want to be on the side of the winner, and he thinks Guliani will win? Is he just trying to get attention and prove to the world that he is still relevant and not 'losing it'? Maybe someone here can enlighten me.
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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Posts: 6028 | From: Outside Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2006
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Beautiful Dreamer
Shipmate
# 10880
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Posted
(tangent)
MadGeo, the pictures on your blog are absolutely gorgeous! Did you take them yourself?
(/tangent)
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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Posts: 6028 | From: Outside Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2006
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
I would not attempt to read Pat Robertson mind but....By endorsing someone, anyone, he is trying to persuade people that he still has some political clout. He could not endorse a Dem, therefore he is endorsing the Rep he feels has the best chance of wining. His endorsement of Rudy proves that Robertson is more interested in power than his much publicized principles.
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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Beautiful Dreamer
Shipmate
# 10880
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chadevan:
NadGeo:
Amen. I remember in the period leading up to the 2000 election, there were rumours circulating among rightwingers (and no doubt planted by the Bush campaign) that if Gore won he would a.outlaw the Bible and b. confiscate everyone's hunting rifles.
Blinkered paranoia is, alas, all too common on the Left and the Right.
I heard that too, but thought it was so stupid that it had to be a joke.
My husband, an avid gun collector, is sort of a single-issue voter. He prefers the Republicans because, as he says, they seem to be more committed to the 2nd Amendment than the other side. I don't know about that, but I think he has tunnel vision. Sadly, though, he is not alone. I have heard so many voters where we live say they will not vote for someone who is not a Christian, and these people usually only consider their own brand of con-evo to be Christians. I can't wait for people like that to have to submit to having a president who isn't in their pocket the way Bush is.
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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Posts: 6028 | From: Outside Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beautiful_Dreamer:
Has Guliani named a running mate?
That would be jumping the gun a bit. Candidates typically don't name running mates until they've secured their parties' nominations.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
"First Gentleman", of course. Though Hillary has evidently mentioned having him do ambassadorial work; not sure if that would be on an official level.
He's no Gentleman ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
So the converse of "she's no lady she's my wife" would be "he's no gentleman he's my husband." Definitely applicable here.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Beautiful Dreamer
Shipmate
# 10880
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Posted
At least Bill Clinton seems to have a sense of humor about being called Bubba and 'First Dude'.
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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Posts: 6028 | From: Outside Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2006
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
And MG: I predict if Hillary is elected that in 2010 you'll see 1994 redux - the repubs will rule both the senate and congress. It's like the American public is somehow collectively savvy about the benefits of gridlock...
who was it that talked about the benefits of being ruled by the first five hundred names in the phonebook?
Keep in mind we have had a Publican Congress and Senate for a while now, until the last election. I think the country is turning left and will stay that way for a while.
On a different note, the Economist this issue is predicting a recession for all intents. I agree. I just did a pottery sale and sold almost nothing! It sounds silly, I know, but it really makes me wonder as when the economy turns, people do not spend on ar and other niceties. I got a bad feeeeelinnnnng.......
I think that will also help the dems, assuming the economy goes south.
Short answer to B.D.: Yes much of the photographs on my blog are mine, unless noted otherwise in the header. Thanks!!!!
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Re: publicans, surely Giuliani is now unelectable? I mean, spending 50,000 dollars of taxpayers money to take your girlfriend out on the town while your second wife is at home looking after the baby (metaphorically if not actually) will not appeal to the Republican "religious" right, right? And even if it didn't in fact happen that way it will be painted that way by his opponents, all over the TV.
Romney and Huckabee are likely to put off large numbers of swing voters.
From my evil leftist point of view, McCain looks like the best (or the least bad) of the main Republicans by a long way (is he really a Republican?)
So anyone who wants the Democrats to win the general election probably wants a Romney/Huckabee nomination from the Republicans, and wants to keep McCain out. Which seeing as more and more states have either open primaries or trivial rules about who can vote they might be able to make happen. The closer the primary race is, the more likely a small but organised intervention is to swing it. Oh brave new world in which you get to choose your opponent's candidates!
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
De: mocrats - I have a worry about Obama's chances. As said above, looks like he might be well placed to get the nomination (even though all polls still point to Clinton being the likeliest front runner of the general election)
But as the primaries approach are voters going to start thinking along the lines of:
"Have things changed that much?"
"Will America really elect a black man?"
"I know that I am not a racist BUT..."
"People Like Us are not racists and in this enlightened age we are happy to vote for black, yellow, red, blue, or green people, BUT what about THEM?"
"What about Southerners/Asian-Americans/Hispanics/Baptists/Inner-city blue-collar workers/Farmers/the unemployed/New Mexicans/high-school dropouts/black Americans who aren't actually African/Rednecks/ or whatever other group of THEM I feel more sophisticated than and superior to? Will THEY vote for an African-American?"
"It only takes a few of THEM to vote the wrong way to lose a marginal election. Can Obama carry the swing states?"
"Can we take the risk?"
"I'm really not a racist BUT..."
And so on and on to prophetic self-fulfilment.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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piers ploughman
Shipmate
# 13174
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Could we actually be heading for our first black president?
Yeah ... I've got to say from the perspective of a total outsider (if, indeed, that's what we Aussies still are) one of the most intriguing things about the comments of US political pundits about the impending election is the casual way they seem to be assuming that either a woman or someone perceived as a Black could actually win it. Has the American political scene really changed to the extent that two things that have seemed unthinkable for so long are now entirely within the realms of possibility? Have racism and sexism actually receded that much in the US of A??
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Eternity is in love with the productions of time.
William Blake.
Posts: 2121 | From: perth wa | Registered: Nov 2007
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
And, about Clinton, another worry. (postively last final wibble) Its probably about time the USA had a woman president (he says, patronisingly). Lots of countries have elected women as presidents,. chancellors, prime ministers and so on, why not the USA?
But there are two kinds of countries that have elected those women. Lots of them, especially in Asia and South America, have elected women to follow their own fathers or husbands into office (often after an assassination or a death in office). India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Argentina, Panama, Guyana. Also a rather odd category of women Presidents and PMs who followed assassinated fathers or husbands who were prominent politicians or military men but never themselves head of state: Chile, Burma (if you count Aung San Suu Kyi as the leader of the country), Nicaragua.
Others have elected women as themselves, regardless of their family. Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Faeroes, UK, Gemany, Israel, New Zealand, Lithuania, Canada (for about six weeks), Ukraine, Poland, - mostly countries of a northern European political heritage (Golda Meir's Israeli Labour Party was a left-liberal Ashkenazi movement with much more in common with European social democratic parties than with any more recent Israeli regimes). Also a handful of West African and Caribbean countries: Senegal, Puerto Rico, Liberia, Jamaica, Dominica.
(Also possibly Portugal, and maybe Sao Tome & Principe. I'm not sure if those women were elected or appointed - I am ignoring entirely appointed officials - the British/Canadian/NZ system is a sort of compulsory appointment of the winner of the election so counts - and also ignoring anyone from San Marino, where nearly everybody gets to be Head of State sooner or later).
Anyway, much as Hillary Clinton looks to this outsider like a good choice for President, that sort of dynastic succession is not something we expect from the United States of America. Its just disappointing that no woman whose husband has not been President seems in the running. And two families running the White house for 28 years is a little extreme.
Not that succeeding in this way necessarily means they will do a bad job. Lots of women who inherited the top job, from Elizabeth I of England to Indira Ghandi, have proved to be better at it than their fathers were. But what next? In 2016 JEB Bush will be 63, which is a bit past it these days. But JEB Junior will be over 30 and have had time to publically kick the drink like his uncle (and all his sisters and his cousins and his aunts - though his own sister is never going to live down the mug shot and their elder brother is too clever and too liberal). And then you all can elect Chelsea in '24.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by piers ploughman:
Have racism and sexism actually receded that much in the US of A??
I think so, for the right candidates. IMO if Obama or Clinton aren't elected it will be because they're too far left for much of the country, not because of race or sex.
IIRC there was a lot of republican support for a Colin Powell (who was believed to be more moderate) campaign some years back, although he chose not to run.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
I found this while looking at some polling data. Maybe some of you would like to play it as you follow the election.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
ken,
Giuliani is far from unelectable for merely his sins, especially if the sins were merely about money. Americans have an amazing ability to ignore the sins of their politicians. Ted Kennedy should be in jail for Chappaquiddick and he is now the seond longest running senator, go figure.
McCain is the best, but he will not get the nomination from this neo-con party. No way in hell. He fights the party too hard (which is why we love him, but the politicians don't). If he was elected, I might be able to vote Republican again. Fat chance. Romney is toast due to the mormen thing and Huckabee is a joke.
I think a black man is electable. A black leftist? I would think it unlikely, OTOH, the American public is sure pissed off at the Republicans. Even the Republicans are pissed off at the Republicans (GW).
Two families running the White House for 20 years is a little extreme. It's where we are though. Yeah, I think we are not done with the Bushes and gods help us, I think Jeb will get it after Hillary/Obama.
Piers Ploughman:
The biggest corporation in the world is housed in Arkansas. A lot has changed over the years my friend. A lot. Yes, a woman or a black man is electable. I think Colin Powell would win by a landslide. Too bad his wife won't let him run (Understandably though).
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
So is Huckabee unelectable because of this stance?
quote:
Huckabee - who raised his hand at a debate last May when asked which candidates disbelieved the theory of evolution - asked this time why there is such a fascination with his beliefs.
"I believe God created the heavens and the Earth," he said at a news conference with Iowa pastors who murmured, "Amen."
"I wasn't there when he did it, so how he did it, I don't know," Huckabee said.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
...Ted Kennedy should be in jail for Chappaquiddick ..............
Your mouth to God's ears!
quote:
......OTOH, the American public is sure pissed off at the Republicans. Even the Republicans are pissed off at the Republicans (GW).
They're not that enthralled with the Democrats either!
quote:
...I think Jeb will get it after Hillary/Obama.
I don't know about the "after Hillary/Obama" part, but I'm looking forward to Jeb already!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
206
Huck is unelectable for a plethora of reasons. Take these for example from The Economist:
quote:
The litany of new Huckabee revelations makes for uncomfortable reading. In 1992 he said that AIDS sufferers should be “isolated” from society. In 1998 he agreed that a woman should “submit herself to the servant leadership of her husband”. In the same year he told a group of preachers that he had entered politics to “take back this nation for Christ”.
Pro-life, doesn't want to change the Health Care system much, and pro-stay-Iraq he's basically GW Junior with even more conservative twists. Yeah, right. We're DONE with that shit.
He is simply TOO Christian, too conservative. He would sell well in the South, but NOT in New Hampshire.
New Yorker,
Face it dude, your guys suck more than the Dems suck right now. Fact. GW has screwed the pooch.
You should prepare yourself and your boys for the electoral reaming you are about to recieve.
Just for fun, I predict the Dems win the general Election by 60% or more.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
New Yorker,
Face it dude, your guys suck more than the Dems suck right now. Fact. GW has screwed the pooch.
You should prepare yourself and your boys for the electoral reaming you are about to recieve.
Just for fun, I predict the Dems win the general Election by 60% or more.
I guess I'm one of the last die hard W supporters. Too bad Cheney isn't running.
And, just for fun, I predict the Republican candidate will take 48 states in the Electoral College!
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
Well the good thing for Republicans is that there is still a little under a year til the Presidential election, if Bush doesn't do anything more stupid (like invading Iran), the GOP can at least minimize the damage, and hold onto their base, which means they can retain the South (Which won't vote Democratic, even if they resurrect Thomas Jefferson to run on the presidential ticket) and parts of the Midwest (Wyoming and Idaho).
Actually the best thing that could happen is if the Dems take both the White House and Congress, they will screw up in two years (Remember the Healthcare debacle in 1993), and the GOP can find someone decent to run in 2012.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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