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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Somehow, when I think "Rush Limbaugh," "savvy" isn't the first word that pops into my head...
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
Daily Kos: Corking the Bat: Hillary's Not So Secret Plan to Steal the Nomination
If she goes through with her plans to secure the nomination at any cost -- even if it means inciting chaos at the convention, usurping the popular vote, and losing the general election -- it will prove once and for all that Hillary's only core conviction is her own lust for power and sense of entitlement.
New Yorker, you don't have a fucking clue what slavery is.
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Joyeux
Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mirrizin:
Obama...with Huckabee? ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Umm...to my liberal-centrist-ish mildly savvy mind that totally does not compute. How do you do it?
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Verrrrry carefully!
I was actually trying to imply that there is no possible palatable combination of candidates for me, and that the political parties have completely failed to provide anyone whom I would fully support and actually had a chance at winning.
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Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
..... it will prove once and for all that Hillary's only core conviction is her own lust for power and sense of entitlement.
This needs proof?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Show me a person who's "core conviction is their own lust for power and sense of entitlement" and I will show you Obama, Hillary, and McCain.
Politicans that do not have that as their core conviction have a name: Loser.
Quite frankly, I can count on one hand the number of human beings in the world that do NOT have that as their core conviction.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Joyeux:
quote:
Originally posted by mirrizin:
Obama...with Huckabee?
Umm...to my liberal-centrist-ish mildly savvy mind that totally does not compute. How do you do it?
Verrrrry carefully!
I was actually trying to imply that there is no possible palatable combination of candidates for me, and that the political parties have completely failed to provide anyone whom I would fully support and actually had a chance at winning.
I think I recall John McCain was asked to be John Kerry's running mate...
These things look good on paper but never work in the US where our political parties hate each other.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Mitt Romney plans to endorse John McCain.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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beza
Shipmate
# 10581
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Posted
Hmmm, not exactly what he needs to get the evangelical vote on board.
Posts: 510 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2005
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Did anyone catch the speeches by Obama and McCain last Tuesday night after the primaries? Obama gave a typically rousing address on an island podium surrounded by thousands of cheering fans. His talk ended about two minutes into the beginning of McCain's speech and the news channels immediately cut to McCain when Obama ended.
Talk about a jarring juxtaposition... viewers were hit with a transition from fiery, emotional pep-rally straight into a closeup of McCain in front of a wall with banners and six or eight stoney-faced politicos standing shoulder-to-shoulder around him. To his immediate right was Senator John Warner (R-Virginia) doing his best Methuselah impression at 81 years old. Another unidentified crone stood to McCain's left. None of the crowd in attendance were visable. The worst part of the glaring contrast was McCain's unappealing, simpering, soft voice with just enough pleading edge to make one wish he had slammed a couple cans of Bawls Energy Drink beforehand.
McCain wins the Worst Timed Post-Primary Speech in History award.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
OMG! That was classic! Thanks for the links! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
A couple of good pieces in today's Washington Post regarding Hillary's faltering campaign in the face of Obama's grassroots movement:
E. J. Dionne Jr.: How 'Inevitable' Got Outmaneuvered
quote:
Clinton campaigns have always been top-down operations focused on message and media. The Clintons have never lived in a world of precinct captains.
Obama, by contrast, was shaped by his early work as an organizer for the Industrial Areas Foundation and his political life in Chicago, a place where people still talk about ward committeemen and harbor memories of something that was called "The Organization."
Michael Gerson: Hillary's Unappealing Path
quote:
It is not enough to be vetted. The goal is to be vetted and found clean.
Though it is increasingly unlikely, Clinton may still have a path to the nomination -- and what a path it is. She merely has to puncture the balloon of Democratic idealism; sully the character of a good man; feed racial tensions within her party; then eke out a win with the support of unelected superdelegates, thwarting the hopes of millions of new voters who would see an inspiring young man defeated by backroom arm-twisting and arcane party rules.
Unlikely -- but it would be a fitting contribution to the Clinton legacy of monumental selfishness.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
Absolutely
I loved this little gem as well: quote:
Obama's eloquence and idealism are dismissed as "abstract" and a "fairy tale" in contrast to Clinton's experience and policy substance. It is difficult for a campaign to inspire while using "inspiration" as an epithet.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Limbaugh weighs in.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Hey, leave the poor man's weight problems out of this, ok?
(sorry, I couldn't resist ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) )
[ 15. February 2008, 15:56: Message edited by: mirrizin ]
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
So, is it plausible that conservative Republicans may hate McCain so much that they'd either sit this election out, or even vote Democratic simply to ensure he loses?
Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but hey. Anything (legal) that gets the Repubs out and the Dems in works for me.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
I like this one better.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
So, is it plausible that conservative Republicans may hate McCain so much that they'd either sit this election out, or even vote Democratic simply to ensure he loses?
The theory is that they'd rather lose the White House than lose control of the GOP. I'm not sure how much water that theory holds, but there it is.
If Obama wins the Democratic nomination (I'm cautiously optimistic that he eventually will), I suspect a lot of right-wingers will stay home while a lot of liberals, moderates, and independents turn out in droves to vote for Obama.
If Clinton somehow becomes the Democratic nominee (which likely won't happen without an all-out civil war in Denver, mind you), I think a lot of liberals will stay home in disgust, moderates and independents will likely split between Clinton and McCain, and most right-wingers will turn out in droves to vote against Clinton even if it means holding their noses while voting for McCain.
ETA: I occasionally read speculation that the right-wingers are making noises about splitting off from the GOP and forming their own third party (a development I would welcome with open arms), but I don't think that would happen unless McCain came out in favor of gay marriage or something like that.
quote:
Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but hey.
It wouldn't be the smartest move. But then, if they had brains, they wouldn't be right-wing Republicans to begin with.
[ 15. February 2008, 18:07: Message edited by: Living in Gin ]
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
In other news:
Bloomberg Rips Government Over Failing Economy, Says U.S. Resembling a "Third-World Country"
quote:
He praised Democrat Barack Obama for the plan the Illinois senator outlined on Wednesday that would create a National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank to rebuild highways, bridges, airports and other public projects. Obama projects it could generate nearly 2 million jobs.
"I don't know whether Senator Obama looked to see what I've been advocating, or not -- you'll have to ask him -- but he's doing the right thing," Bloomberg said.
But then the mayor went on to say that while the presidential candidates appear to be talking more about the economy now, they are looking for quick fixes to please voters instead of focusing on the roots of the problem.
"Nobody wants to sit there and say, 'Well there's no easy solution,"' Bloomberg said. "They want to send out a check to everybody to stimulate the economy. I suppose it won't hurt the economy but it's in many senses like giving a drink to an alcoholic."
Preach it, brother.
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
I don't know that it is safe to conclude that Clinton will not win the largest number of delegates as awarded purely by the voters. The news seems to point to Obama, but there are still a number of primaries to go, and realistically things are still neck and neck.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
quote:
just don't see how listening in on telephone conversations among terrorists is that big of an extension of police powers traditionally wielded by the government.
Because of course law enforcement never makes mistakes about who is and who isn't a criminal, and never accuses innocent people unjustly.
Which of course is why one of the foundations of American law is "guilty until proven innocent".
Hey, wait a minute... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
Unofficial Tallies in City Understated Obama Vote
quote:
Black voters are heavily represented in the 94th Election District in Harlem’s 70th Assembly District. Yet according to the unofficial results from the New York Democratic primary last week, not a single vote in the district was cast for Senator Barack Obama.
That anomaly was not unique. In fact, a review by The New York Times of the unofficial results reported on primary night found about 80 election districts among the city’s 6,106 where Mr. Obama supposedly did not receive even one vote, including cases where he ran a respectable race in a nearby district.
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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wombat
Shipmate
# 5180
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
So, is it plausible that conservative Republicans may hate McCain so much that they'd either sit this election out, or even vote Democratic simply to ensure he loses?
The theory is that they'd rather lose the White House than lose control of the GOP. I'm not sure how much water that theory holds, but there it is.
For other examples of this kind of phenomenon, see the Labor Party in the 80s and the Democratic party in the 1860 election. Or the Liberal Unionist revolt in the late 19th century.
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John Walter Biles
Historian in Training
Posts: 363 | From: Maryland | Registered: Nov 2003
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Joyeux
Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
Semi-moderately conservative (or semi-conservatively moderate) Republican checking in here.
My current plan (subject to change without notice) is to go to the polls on March 4th for the Texas primary, and choose between the candidates listed. If I can't support any, then I will submit a blank ballot. Same thing in November, or I'll have a short list of names to use as a "write-in". I'll give McCain this - he does not appear to be willing to try "whatever it takes" to (per beza) "get the evangelical vote on board," as that would definitely smack of pandering. Since Huckabee is still in the race, he has the support of the evangelicals, not McCain. I don't see that changing for as long as Huckabee remains.
The idea that people would stay home instead of turning in a blank ballot or putting a write-in name seriously worries me!
FWIW - My opinion of left-wing Democrats appears to correspond with Living in Gin's opinion of right-wing Republicans, so there we are.
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Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
quote:
just don't see how listening in on telephone conversations among terrorists is that big of an extension of police powers traditionally wielded by the government.
Because of course law enforcement never makes mistakes about who is and who isn't a criminal, and never accuses innocent people unjustly.
Maybe this, then, is the point where liberals and conservatives part ways. A conservative would prefer the police wiretap the wrong person than risk not being allowed to wiretap the right person. A liberal would prefer that the police not wiretap the right person rather than risk a wire of the wrong person.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
quote:
just don't see how listening in on telephone conversations among terrorists is that big of an extension of police powers traditionally wielded by the government.
Because of course law enforcement never makes mistakes about who is and who isn't a criminal, and never accuses innocent people unjustly.
Which of course is why one of the foundations of American law is "guilty until proven innocent".
Hey, wait a minute...
It's not the wire tapping that bothers me, it's the warrantless wire tapping.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Well...that depends on how you define liberal and conservative doesn't it? I'm convinced those terms mean nothing anymore. I started a thread a few months ago about what it means to be a conservative. This is the term with which a significant portion of people in the United States want to identify. Relatively few people want the term liberal. Politicians prefer the term progressive which essentially means liberal. However, even then, the word has no real meaning. There are few positions on economics, social issues, or foreign policy not held by somebody claiming to be conservative/liberal.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
Well, Hillary's Harold Ickes does not appear too worried:
quote:
A top Hillary Clinton adviser on Saturday boldly predicted his candidate would lock down the nomination before the August convention by definitively winning over party insiders and officials known as superdelegates, claiming the number of state elections won by rival Barack Obama would be "irrelevant" to their decision.
Seems rather haughty to me. Here's the whole story.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Joyeux
Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
So the Republican party splits over McCain, and the Democratic party splits over how the party picks a candidate, leaving the voting public to write-in "Mickey Mouse," and the government will have to find a new reason why he doesn't qualify to be elected. They can't use his age anymore, since he's well over 35!
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Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally Posted by New Yorker:
Maybe this, then, is the point where liberals and conservatives part ways. A conservative would prefer the police wiretap the wrong person than risk not being allowed to wiretap the right person. A liberal would prefer that the police not wiretap the right person rather than risk a wire of the wrong person.
How many libertarians have you posed this question to?
Then again, we could be wandering into No True Scotsman territory...
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Joyeux:
So the Republican party splits over McCain, and the Democratic party splits over how the party picks a candidate, leaving the voting public to write-in "Mickey Mouse," and the government will have to find a new reason why he doesn't qualify to be elected. They can't use his age anymore, since he's well over 35!
He's too liberal. I'd write in Donald Duck.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Scrooge McDuck is surely the conservative candidate of choice?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wombat:
Democratic party in the 1860 election.
Not entirely.
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Well, Hillary's Harold Ickes does not appear too worried:
quote:
A top Hillary Clinton adviser on Saturday boldly predicted his candidate would lock down the nomination before the August convention by definitively winning over party insiders and officials known as superdelegates, claiming the number of state elections won by rival Barack Obama would be "irrelevant" to their decision.
Seems rather haughty to me. Here's the whole story.
"Haughty" is putting it mildly. Her campaign is basically saying, "Fuck the voters. We'll pull every string we can among the party insiders to make sure Hillary gets the nomination." Does she seriously think people won't remember a stunt like that in November, especially after the election debacle in 2000?
I don't think it will work, though. All these party insiders, if nothing else, are political animals who would greatly resent the fact that Hillary seems willing to throw the entire Democratic Party under a bus in order to further her own career advancement. If Obama maintains his lead in the pledged delegates, I think there's a good chance that Hillary is the one who ends up under the bus.
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
My fear is whether the Dems aren't going to end up falling on the sword of American racism or sexism. One hopes we have come far enough as a nation for that not to be a factor in the election. One knows better though.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Maybe this, then, is the point where liberals and conservatives part ways. A conservative would prefer the police wiretap the wrong person than risk not being allowed to wiretap the right person. A liberal would prefer that the police not wiretap the right person rather than risk a wire of the wrong person.
Last time I checked even Conservatives of the most conservative stripe believed in "Innocent until proven guilty", not the other way around.
The sad fact of the matter is that the government is so incompetent that I have no doubt whatsoever that your position is absurd. It is highly likely that the government will ensnare innocent folks (they already have) and the next set of terrorist will walk around without a care in the world. You give up our rights for nothing.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MouseThief:
My fear is whether the Dems aren't going to end up falling on the sword of American racism or sexism. One hopes we have come far enough as a nation for that not to be a factor in the election. One knows better though.
Actually one is watching while America is quite passionately voting a black man past a much more established politician. When a black man or a woman is voted in as the next president will one shut up about racism or sexism?
One should be so lucky.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
quote:
Originally posted by MouseThief:
My fear is whether the Dems aren't going to end up falling on the sword of American racism or sexism. One hopes we have come far enough as a nation for that not to be a factor in the election. One knows better though.
Actually one is watching while America is quite passionately voting a black man past a much more established politician. When a black man or a woman is voted in as the next president will one shut up about racism or sexism?
One should be so lucky.
"America" and people voting in Demo. primaries aren't exactly the same beast. The Dems have a long and well-established history of nominating people that the country as a whole rejects. One should be so forgetful of one's history.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
A black man and a white woman are serious candidates. One might expect that alone to be a major coup. But then until one is elected president, and one WILL be elected president sooner or later, I guess we have to listen to the naysayers bitch about how far we have to go, not far we have come. Glass is half empty and the other half is full of piss and all that.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Maybe this, then, is the point where liberals and conservatives part ways. A conservative would prefer the police wiretap the wrong person than risk not being allowed to wiretap the right person. A liberal would prefer that the police not wiretap the right person rather than risk a wire of the wrong person.
Last time I checked even Conservatives of the most conservative stripe believed in "Innocent until proven guilty", not the other way around.
How is this applicable? "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the whole process. Innocent people are investigated every day. Indeed without investigation no one would ever be proven guilty.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
A black man and a white woman are serious candidates. One might expect that alone to be a major coup. But then until one is elected president, and one WILL be elected president sooner or later, I guess we have to listen to the naysayers bitch about how far we have to go, not far we have come. Glass is half empty and the other half is full of piss and all that.
Indeed, I know one man who insists that if Hillary Clinton is not elected president it will be another 40 years before another woman has the opportunity to be elected president. He insists that African-Americans will have other chances but not women. This strikes me as absurd.
Obama is the only African-American politician currently on the scene who has any chance of becoming president. This isn't the case with women. There are numerous women, both Democrat and Republican, who have a chance of becoming president. Many of them would have a better chance of winning than Hillary.
If Hillary wins the nomination, Obama has to become her running mate to have much of a hope of becoming president. Then, he has to hope for some things to happen. One, he has to hope they win. No loosing vice presidential candidate has ever become president. Bob Dole can you all about Bob Dole's experience loosing presidential elections. This means Hillary has to win twice. Mondale won with Carter in 76, lost with him in 80, and was decimated by Reagan in 84. Two, Obama has to hope Hillary does a good job running the country and doesn't leave them with a bad taste in their mouth. Then, it would help if the Republicans nominate a weak candidate. Gore couldn't carry either his or Clinton's state in 2000 even with the economy in good shape. Bush 41 walked over Dukakis even after Iran Contra because people liked Reagan and Dukakis was weak.
In other words, the best chance for an African American POTUS is now.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matins:
If Hillary wins the nomination, Obama has to become her running mate to have much of a hope of becoming president.
Why? He's only 46; he should have lots of opportunities in the coming decades, and I don't see why failure this year would be fatal to his hopes. Reagan failed to win the Republican nomination in '68 and '76, but won it and the presidency in '80. And running for president from the VP spot may not be all that attractive - before Bush Sr., the last one to succeed was Martin Van Buren in '36 (1836, that is.)
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by MouseThief:
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Originally posted by Mad Geo:
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Originally posted by MouseThief:
My fear is whether the Dems aren't going to end up falling on the sword of American racism or sexism. One hopes we have come far enough as a nation for that not to be a factor in the election. One knows better though.
Actually one is watching while America is quite passionately voting a black man past a much more established politician. When a black man or a woman is voted in as the next president will one shut up about racism or sexism?
One should be so lucky.
"America" and people voting in Demo. primaries aren't exactly the same beast. The Dems have a long and well-established history of nominating people that the country as a whole rejects. One should be so forgetful of one's history.
however, many independents and moderate Republicans have voted for Obama in the Primaries that have not been closed and this does bode well for the General when "America" does vote.
[ 18. February 2008, 01:14: Message edited by: SeraphimSarov ]
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
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Originally posted by New Yorker:
How is this applicable? "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the whole process. Innocent people are investigated every day. Indeed without investigation no one would ever be proven guilty.
Indeed you are correct. I shoulda said that real conservatives believe in the Consitution and the Rights to Privacy and Free Speech.. You are quite liberal (in the common usage of the term) with regards to giving away our Consitutional rights willy-nilly.
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U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor was the first to find the National Security Agency surveillance program unconstitutional, and she took the Bush administration to task for its arguments, saying it appeared to be saying the president had the “inherent power” to violate laws of Congress.
“There are no hereditary Kings in America and no powers not created by the Constitution. So all ’inherent powers’ must derive from that Constitution,” Taylor wrote in her 43-page opinion.
“The public interest is clear, in this matter. It is the upholding of our Constitution,” she wrote.
It has been my observation that the Bush administration would have us be a monarchy, even MORE so than the bullshit Bill and Hillary tried to pull at the outset of his administration with HillaryCare. Perhaps if you are trying to be a True Conservative™ you should consider what it is exactly you are trying to conserve. I would posit that it should be the Consitution in all its glory, over the meanderings of ANY given administration.
It always amuses me when people try to justify their destruction of Consitutional liberties when their boys (or soon to be girls perhaps) are in power. They fail to realize that under our system theer time will pass and the NEXT president will enjoy the same abuse of liberties only this time, they may be watching the conservatives liberties be destroyed. As much as I might enjoy you reaping what you sow, I am much more concerned with stopping you and yours.
It is talk like this that is rapidly making me consider a donation to the ACLU in addition to my existing membership in the NRA. With that I cover all my Rights that the damn extremists would piss away.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
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Posted
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Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Indeed you are correct. I shoulda said that real conservatives believe in the Consitution and the Rights to Privacy and Free Speech.. You are quite liberal (in the common usage of the term) with regards to giving away our Consitutional rights willy-nilly.
Believe me, I believe in the right to privacy and free speech. That said, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. What good are those rights to me if the terrorists us a phone call to plan the destruction of New York?
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
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You do not seriously think that they haven't figured out ways around that do you? I mean REALLY. The government can't handle a hurricane, TSA couldn't find a bomb if you strapped it to their useless asses, they can't catch bin Laden with the entire army and FedGov at their disposal, and you think they can catch a coordinated terrorist attack from within? Really?
The Israelis anti-terrorism police (who are much better at this than we are) have a saying: "We have to get it right 100% of the time. The terrorists only have to get it right ONCE."
I frankly have no doubt they will get it right ONCE again with ALL the wiretapping we allow the government to get. The government are incompetent BOOBS. Meanwhile "conservatives" give GW, and all following presidents the right to bend the Constitution or outright break it, and think this is cool. Just imagine that whatever liberty you hold dear being put in the hands of Hillary or Obama and THEN decide if you want to give something else up to GW.....
Real Conservatives conserve the Constitution. Anyone else is just an imitator.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Does anyone have any democractic projections going into Hawaii/Wisconsin? How about Texas/ohio on March 5? Who do you think will take them?
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
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Accord to something I read (either in slate or the Trib, I'm honestly not sure), Texas is going to be close. Ah, here it is.
I think Obama should win Hawaii hands-down, based on prior residence.
I've read things saying that Obama is probably going to win Wisconsin (which is why Hillary is focusing on OH and TX), but this article disagrees. I'm not sure if I buy their logic, though.
As in years past, I don't really know about Ohio.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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