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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
tclune
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Indeed you are correct. I shoulda said that real conservatives believe in the Consitution and the Rights to Privacy and Free Speech.. You are quite liberal (in the common usage of the term) with regards to giving away our Consitutional rights willy-nilly.

Believe me, I believe in the right to privacy and free speech. That said, the Constitution is not a suicide pact. What good are those rights to me if the terrorists us a phone call to plan the destruction of New York?
Can you think of anything that could not be used by a terrorist? By your (and POTUS') logic, every freedom can and should be revoked in the interest of "security." I for one am much more afraid of the fascists in the White House than the ragheads in the desert. As someone once said, "Those who would choose security over freedom will end up with neither."

--Tom Clune

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Mad Geo

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quote:
Originally posted by mirrizin:
Accord to something I read (either in slate or the Trib, I'm honestly not sure), Texas is going to be close. Ah, here it is.

Very Interesting. Hillary sure seemed to be pulling the Latino vote, I wonder if they are turning toward Obama for some reason?

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Og: Thread Killer
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Obama winning Wisconsin, but is only 56% to 43%.

McCain winning, but that's old news now.

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Jason™

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
quote:
Originally posted by mirrizin:
Accord to something I read (either in slate or the Trib, I'm honestly not sure), Texas is going to be close. Ah, here it is.

Very Interesting. Hillary sure seemed to be pulling the Latino vote, I wonder if they are turning toward Obama for some reason?
Two things -- Texas Latinos are a lot younger than in other states, and young voters are more inclined to vote for Obama. Second, some Hispanics/Latinos were soured by the Clinton campaign's recent firing of Patti Solis Doyle.
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Jason™

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quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Obama winning Wisconsin, but is only 56% to 43%.

McCain winning, but that's old news now.

Only? A 13% margin is huge for a primary! We'll see what the final margin is once the votes are all counted.

Interestingly, so far Obama's gotten more votes (about 400,000) than all of the Republican candidates combined (about 265,000)...

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jlg

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That might simply be a reflection of lower Republican voter turn-out (since there's no longer much of a race there) with respect to increased voter turn-out (both Democratic and independents where allowed) for the Democrats since the race is so close and also so interesting from a future historical perspective (black man/white woman).

(This is based solely on MNSHO. And if anyone wants to parse that run-on sentence into something more coherent, feel free! I'm up past my bedtime.)

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Alfred E. Neuman

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quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Obama winning Wisconsin, but is only 56% to 43%.

Now it's 58% to 41% with 84% of the districts reporting. (8:45pm west coast)

Delegate count: Obama - 1294 Clinton - 1234 with 2025 needed to nominate.

It looks like the DNC will hold firm to not seating Florida and Michigan delegates at Denver. The sticking point is both candidates initially approved the decision and agreed not to campaign there but Clinton appeared twice in Florida anyway. Her excuse was that the events weren't official campaign visits because "they were closed to the public" (though widely covered in the media).

I guess fund-raisers don't qualify as campaigning in the Clinton world.

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tclune
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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
It looks like the DNC will hold firm to not seating Florida and Michigan delegates at Denver. The sticking point is both candidates initially approved the decision and agreed not to campaign there but Clinton appeared twice in Florida anyway.

That's only one sticking point. Both Edwards and Obama went through the process that had been agreed to, and had their names officially removed from the ballots in Michigan. Hillary "forgot" to do that, and -- surprise, surprise -- she got more checks next to her name than either of the others got write-ins. The Clintons are the living embodiment of political slime, and it looks like the Dems are deciding that they just don't want that kind of crap anymore. Maybe there's hope for the country after all...

--Tom Clune

[ 20. February 2008, 12:30: Message edited by: tclune ]

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Bullfrog.

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Looks like Washington's gonna be a close call, though Obama is slightly ahead at the moment.

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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg

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Living in Gin

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One of those stories that gives me goosebumps:

Burnt Orange Report: Thousands of Prairie View Students March 7.3 Miles to Vote

quote:
Early voting starts today in Texas. In Waller County, a primarily rural county about 60 miles outside Houston, the county made the decision to offer only one early voting location: at the County Courthouse in Hempstead, TX, the county seat.

Prairie View A&M students organized to protest the decision, because they felt it hindered their ability to vote. For background, Prairie View A&M is one of Texas' historically Black universities. It has a very different demographic feel than the rest of the county. There has been a long history of dispute over what the students feel is disenfranchisement. There was a lot of outrage in 2006, when students felt they were unfairly denied the right to vote when their registrations somehow did not get processed.

So what are the students doing?

1000 students, along with an additional 1000 friends and supporters, are this morning walking the 7.3 miles between Prairie View and Hempstead in order to vote today. According to the piece I saw on the news (there's no video up, so I can't link to it), the students plan to all vote today. There are only 2 machines available at the courthouse for early voting, so they hope to tie them up all day and into the night.

[Overused]

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Mad Geo

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I had an interesting realization yesterday. I get nearly all of my news online, and I can't recall the last time I saw a picture of Hillary. It must been at least a week, if not two, ago. Obama is daily.

I believe this is what they call the Big Mo. (Momentum)

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Mad Geo

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Ironically, she is now page one on MSNBC, not a positive article though....

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
One of those stories that gives me goosebumps:

Burnt Orange Report: Thousands of Prairie View Students March 7.3 Miles to Vote

quote:
Early voting starts today in Texas. In Waller County, a primarily rural county about 60 miles outside Houston, the county made the decision to offer only one early voting location: at the County Courthouse in Hempstead, TX, the county seat.

Prairie View A&M students organized to protest the decision, because they felt it hindered their ability to vote. For background, Prairie View A&M is one of Texas' historically Black universities. It has a very different demographic feel than the rest of the county. There has been a long history of dispute over what the students feel is disenfranchisement. There was a lot of outrage in 2006, when students felt they were unfairly denied the right to vote when their registrations somehow did not get processed.

So what are the students doing?

1000 students, along with an additional 1000 friends and supporters, are this morning walking the 7.3 miles between Prairie View and Hempstead in order to vote today. According to the piece I saw on the news (there's no video up, so I can't link to it), the students plan to all vote today. There are only 2 machines available at the courthouse for early voting, so they hope to tie them up all day and into the night.

[Overused]
Yeah, and contrast that to the situation in Travis County (Austin) Texas, where I used to live. There, IME, there were zillions of places you could early vote. I always did so at a polling station set up at a nearby supermarket. The shopping malls also had polling stations. I know we're talking about a city, but probably anyone was within half a mile distance of a polling station that would be manned by a couple of volunteer staff and have a couple of voting booths. It's ominous and preposterous that Waller County couldn't have more early voting polling places scattered about, including a station on the Prairie View campus.
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Littlelady
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Does anyone think that Michelle Obama's comment about this being the only time in her adult life that she felt proud of America will in any way harm Obama's chances? I heard it on Fox, so I don't know whether it is being made into a big deal nationwide or just, well, on Fox!

Given what's been said on here and in the media about Texas and Ohio being more pro-Clinton and tough states for Obama to challenge, those two primaries are going to be very interesting. If Obama should win either one - or even both - will that nail it for him? Or are there some equally if not more influential states yet to come? (That's aside from any impact the superdelegates may have)

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
Does anyone think that Michelle Obama's comment about this being the only time in her adult life that she felt proud of America will in any way harm Obama's chances? I heard it on Fox, so I don't know whether it is being made into a big deal nationwide or just, well, on Fox!


Yes, I wondered that. It may come back to haunt her - and him - unless she does something smart about it fairly quickly.

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
Does anyone think that Michelle Obama's comment about this being the only time in her adult life that she felt proud of America will in any way harm Obama's chances? I heard it on Fox, so I don't know whether it is being made into a big deal nationwide or just, well, on Fox!


Yes, I wondered that. It may come back to haunt her - and him - unless she does something smart about it fairly quickly.
This is being talked about on the Philadelphia National Public Radio Station (a Radio 4-like creature, for those across the pond) even as I was reading the above post. So this is suddenly getting attention and I'm sure the Limbaugh League will take it up in nasty terms. Hope she can find an appropriate venue for "clarifying" her statement in a way that will be acceptable to the electorate. It was a most unfortunate comment.
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Living in Gin

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Here's a gem from today's Daily Kos:

Hillary's campaign is apparently going after Obama's pledged delegates.

How much lower can her campaign sink? Wait, don't answer that...

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Living in Gin

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Dammit... I haven't been getting shit done at the office since I started reading the Daily Kos.

Sorry Cindy McCain, It's Time to Take the Gloves Off

quote:
I really don't care if McCain's trophy wife is proud of her country. She is just another GOP Stepford Wife as vacant as the previous ones. Whoopie for anorexic-looking Cindy McCain in her red $5000 Yves St. Laurent power suit, with her triple string of cultured pearls, her bleached blond hair and her shiny new face-lift telling us she's proud of America. Prouder of America than--- hmmmm, let's say Michelle Obama.


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RuthW

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A NY Times blogger is reporting that the Teamsters are gonna endorse Obama -- another coup.
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Living in Gin

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Yahoo! News is carrying the Teamsters story as well. They could be a big help to Obama in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

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Barnabas62
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Here's Michelle. Form your own opinions. Personally I didn't think it was too bad. But then I didn't think Rowan Williams "sharia" interview and lecture were too bad ....

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Living in Gin

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Of course, we can always count on Bill O'Reilly to provide a nuanced, thoughtful take on Michelle's comments:

quote:
I don't want to go on a lynching party against Michelle Obama unless there's evidence, hard facts, that say this is how the woman really feels.


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Littlelady
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I think it's a gaffe and gaffes can go either way. I'm not so sure that making a further comment will make it better? Sometimes least said soonest mended? Or maybe not, in the world of politics! It's a shame she had to say it but if it's what she feels then maybe it's better being said now than later. Either way, Michelle isn't running for Democratic candidate; hubby is (though I do realise that First Lady is an important role in the US so maybe she needs to keep a tighter hold on what she says in the future?)

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Choirboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
Does anyone think that Michelle Obama's comment about this being the only time in her adult life that she felt proud of America will in any way harm Obama's chances?

If she said it, you will see it replayed endlessly. Yes, it can hurt.

quote:
Given what's been said on here and in the media about Texas and Ohio being more pro-Clinton and tough states for Obama to challenge, those two primaries are going to be very interesting...[editied-choirboy]...(That's aside from any impact the superdelegates may have)

It seems clear that even if Obama loses Texas and Ohio, as long as he can get about 40 or 45% of the proportionally awarded delegates, then the result of the primaries and caucuses will be essentially a tie, and everything will rest on the super delegates. In fact, that is probably true regardless of what happens in Texas or Ohio, with the exception of perceptions; i.e. a strong finish by either candidate may sway super delegate opinion. But mathematically, it is essentially down to the super delegates now.
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Mamacita

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Frankly, I was surprised to hear that Cindy McCain can talk. I had the impression of her as a Nancy Reaganesque political wife whose main function it is to gaze lovingly upon her husband while he's at the podium. Perhaps she always introduces her husband's speeches on the trail and I've never seen it (or perhaps TV doesn't broadcast that part). In any case, I figure someone on the campaign staff wrote that for her.

Mrs McCain's remark marks a turning point in the campaign: McCain's camp (1) taking a swipe at Obama -- obviously he's the one seen as the Big Threat now and (2) taking a swipe at Obama via his wife -- which is a pretty rough tactic. One could argue that since Michelle has put herself out there on the campaign trail she is fair game, but I still sense that we've crossed the Campaign Ugliness line here.

If the Republicans and the commentariat continue to chew on Michelle Obama's statement, I would love to see her develop it into a stump speech: Why I am really proud of my country *now*. Perhaps that would help the rest of us folks to wake up to the fact that the African-American experience of America is a particular one and that patriotism in the black community is going to be developed, felt, expressed differently.

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Mad Geo

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
A NY Times blogger is reporting that the Teamsters are gonna endorse Obama -- another coup.

Yeah, I think Hillary needs a miracle. Obama's momentum is amazing. I don't recall the Clinton the 1st election very well, but from what i've read he came from behind like Obama for the kill. Irony abounds.

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Living in Gin

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Bill Clinton came from behind to beat Paul Tsongas, but he wasn't nearly as far behind this late in the game as Hillary is now, and Obama is no Tsongas.

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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The more I read the relevant threads here on SoF, the more I am convinced a Hillary nomination would end in the disaster of defeat for the Dem ticket and the election of McCain. OTOH, everything seems to support the electability of Barak. Having voted for him in our state's primary, I can only fervently hope that he's not tripped up by something from the Clintons' bag of dirty tricks.
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Living in Gin

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...or the GOP's even bigger bag of dirty tricks.

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New Yorker
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"Mother of mercy, Rico, is this the end of Hillary?"

I don't think she's out yet.

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Anna B
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I don't think she's out yet.

Does anybody else remember the ending of "The Vanishing"? [Devil]

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Jason™

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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
quote:
Given what's been said on here and in the media about Texas and Ohio being more pro-Clinton and tough states for Obama to challenge, those two primaries are going to be very interesting...[editied-choirboy]...(That's aside from any impact the superdelegates may have)

It seems clear that even if Obama loses Texas and Ohio, as long as he can get about 40 or 45% of the proportionally awarded delegates, then the result of the primaries and caucuses will be essentially a tie, and everything will rest on the super delegates. In fact, that is probably true regardless of what happens in Texas or Ohio, with the exception of perceptions; i.e. a strong finish by either candidate may sway super delegate opinion. But mathematically, it is essentially down to the super delegates now. [/QB]
I don't think this is true. Obama has over a 150 pledged delegate lead, and he's winning or coming close in categories that Clinton should have won definitively (whites, working class). The numbers I've heard say she'd have to win 58% of the remaining delegates to tie in pledged delegates. If you assume Obama wins a few more of these states even by a slim margin, then Clinton has to win something like 65% of the primary votes that she does win, especially Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. That's a very tough hill to climb.

Also keep in mind that Obama's 17 percentage point win in Wisconsin last night was the slimmest margin of all 10 wins he's had since Super Tuesday. Did you hear that? 17 points was the slimmest win he's had. That is a serious problem for Clinton.

Superdelegates can vote however they want--those are the rules and we can't go changing those rules in the middle of the campaigns. But if Obama goes to the convention with a lead in pledged delegates, even just 10 to 15, I think they'll put him through for the sake of the party and the general election.

This is Obama's to lose, it would seem.

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Living in Gin

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quote:
Originally posted by Professor Kirke:
This is Obama's to lose, it would seem.

Agreed.

Also, keep in mind that there's more going on than just a presidential election. Lots of House and Senate seats are also up for grabs, in addition to governorships and other local offices. In order to get anything accomplished in 2009 and beyond, the Democrats will need to control at least 60 Senate seats in order to block Republican filibusters. I think the Democrats are beginning to realize that Obama has much longer coattails than Hillary.

[ 21. February 2008, 00:19: Message edited by: Living in Gin ]

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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.

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Alfred E. Neuman

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quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
If the Republicans and the commentariat continue to chew on Michelle Obama's statement, I would love to see her develop it into a stump speech: Why I am really proud of my country *now*. Perhaps that would help the rest of us folks to wake up to the fact that the African-American experience of America is a particular one and that patriotism in the black community is going to be developed, felt, expressed differently.

This little tempest may give people pause to consider if they have ever been truly "proud" of their country; especially of late. How often does anyone feel their chest swell with pride when they think of our glorious reputation in the world or our greedy pork barrel representatives in Washington? The truth is most Americans are too depressed with their insular daily lives to think of the nation. Hell, most of them don't know where Iraq is (or Britain for that matter).

It's not at all surprising to me that a black woman is feeling pride in her country for the first time. Given the centuries-long struggle African-Americans have had to secure basic human rights in a country that asserts the equality of man in their Declaration of Independence, the very real possibility her husband will become President must feel incredibly significant. I know it is for me.

This insular old white guy was ready to leave this country four years ago and now I find myself an inspired Obama delegate, even if it is only to the county convention. We need this person at this time in our history. His election will be extremely significant nationally and on the world stage. If he can continue to inspire people from their lethargy enough to simply care about events outside their individual concerns, I can see only good results.

He's right that he "can't do it alone". He will need the continued support of an inspired citizenry to weather the painful sacrifices needed to correct myriad abuses and years of selfish neglect.

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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335

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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
"Mother of mercy, Rico, is this the end of Hillary?"

I don't think she's out yet.

hope springs eternal for the Gop'ers I guess?? [Smile]

Go, Obama!

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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MrSponge2U

Ship’s scrub
# 3076

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Here's an interesting article describing a Myers-Briggs analysis of Obama, Clinton, and McCain. Not too hard to see why Obama as an idealist NF is more popular than Clinton, a scary SJ. McCain is an SP, which may not bode well, considering the most recent SP president.

[ 21. February 2008, 02:35: Message edited by: MrSponge2U ]

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sig? what sig?

Posts: 3558 | From: where two big rivers meet | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Living in Gin

Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572

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Well, you know it wouldn't be a proper presidential election without a sex scandal, now would it?

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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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That is the absolutely wateriest sex scandal I've ever seen. They're reaching.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Jason™

Host emeritus
# 9037

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I am at a loss as to understanding what this story is all about. The NY Times released this story this morning on their front page, but it seems pretty weak and unverified. If this is being irresponsibly handled by the media, it could be just the thing that the Republican party needs to galvanize around McCain. (Though I thought the same might happen for Kerry and the swiftboat debacle, too, so who knows.)
Posts: 4123 | From: Land of Mary | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Living in Gin

Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572

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Unless there are any shocking new revelations coming down the pipeline, I think the Times is giving this story far too much importance. The Pentagon Papers, this ain't.

Somewhat interestingly, though, the Times has been sitting on this story since December. If they had ran it then, it could have become a big factor in the GOP primaries. McCain should send a big thank-you note to the Times for holding off on this story until a point in his campaign when it could do the least possible damage to him.

Given how many "family values" Republicans have been caught having flings with underage boys or with strangers in airport restrooms, the idea of a politician having an affair with an attractive lobbyist seems almost quaint. I guess McCain really is a conservative.

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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.

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tclune
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# 7959

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quote:
Originally posted by MouseThief:
That is the absolutely wateriest sex scandal I've ever seen. They're reaching.

It may give McCain a big boost. I see a campaign slogan emerging from this: "He may be old, but he's young at heart...

--Tom Clune

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Choirboy
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# 9659

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quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
quote:
Originally posted by Professor Kirke:
This is Obama's to lose, it would seem.

Agreed.

Also, keep in mind that there's more going on than just a presidential election. [...] I think the Democrats are beginning to realize that Obama has much longer coattails than Hillary.

Maybe so. But mathematically there is no way he will be more than 800 delegates ahead come convention. It will be for the super delegates to decide.

All the data available on super delegates, and the AP's delegate count which factors that in, are purely speculative, based on polls in which about a third of the super delegates respond. And even their responses don't matter as the only vote that counts is at convention. Any statement about the pressures they face is pure speculation.

Momentum is overrated as there are plenty of other factors that go in to a win. Following super tuesday everyone expected Obama to do well in the next set of contests. That could easily turn on March 4, although it doesn't _look_ like it will. Still, everyone was surprised by the results in New Hampshire.

I'm sure no one in the Obama campaign is treating this as other than a neck and neck contest. If they are, they deserve to lose for being so stupid.

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Choirboy
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# 9659

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quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
It may give McCain a big boost. I see a campaign slogan emerging from this: "He may be old, but he's young at heart...

I half suspect it was leaked by the McCain campaign to keep him in the news [not seriously].
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SeraphimSarov
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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
quote:
Originally posted by Professor Kirke:
This is Obama's to lose, it would seem.

Agreed.

Also, keep in mind that there's more going on than just a presidential election. [...] I think the Democrats are beginning to realize that Obama has much longer coattails than Hillary.

Maybe so. But mathematically there is no way he will be more than 800 delegates ahead come convention. It will be for the super delegates to decide.

All the data available on super delegates, and the AP's delegate count which factors that in, are purely speculative, based on polls in which about a third of the super delegates respond. And even their responses don't matter as the only vote that counts is at convention. Any statement about the pressures they face is pure speculation.

Momentum is overrated as there are plenty of other factors that go in to a win. Following super tuesday everyone expected Obama to do well in the next set of contests. That could easily turn on March 4, although it doesn't _look_ like it will. Still, everyone was surprised by the results in New Hampshire.

I'm sure no one in the Obama campaign is treating this as other than a neck and neck contest. If they are, they deserve to lose for being so stupid.

It's harder for Hillary because even if she wins both Texas (which looks closer and closer every day) and Ohio (which is tightening), there is still the proportional distribution of delegates which could still leave her behind.

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Choirboy
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# 9659

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Maybe so, but you have to watch your delegate counts. Most news organizations are already factoring in estimates of super delegate votes that are pretty unreliable.

According to the New York Times count, Clinton is only 5 delegates behind.

The New York Times takes a very conservative view of delegate counting. Not only do they refuse to count any super delegates at this time, but they don't even count the state delegates until they are officially awarded (not just based on estimates from the voting). For example, if I recall correctly, a bunch of the proportionally awarded delegates from Maryland were given as soon as the vote was certified; another chunk of them will be awarded in May at the state party convention, and then there are the super delegates. The New York Times only counts the first bunch as of now.

Long story short - the true delegate counts as of the moment are somewhere between the NYT count and most other published accounts. You have your choice of over counting or under counting. Frankly, the Times is overdoing it a bit, but it would be nice if other news organizations did not try to count super delegates at the moment.

A difference of 5 or even 100 is still anybody's race, even without the super delegates.

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Jason™

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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Maybe so. But mathematically there is no way he will be more than 800 delegates ahead come convention. It will be for the super delegates to decide.

Well, the numbers I've heard show that if Obama were to get something like 65% of the remaining delegates, he could actually secure the nomination with pledged delegates alone. I don't see that as being any less likely than Clinton getting the 58% she'd need to pull even, honestly. (He's won his last 10 by an average margin of 33 percentage points. Even on Super Tuesday he won 13 states by an average of 28 points each, while Clinton won 9 by an average of only 15.)

I agree that it probably won't be officially decided by pledged delegates alone come convention time. But to say he needs an 800 delegate lead to guarantee a win is ignoring how the process really works. The "superdelegates" aren't just a random group of stuffy old men in smoky rooms who have no connection to the outside world. They're Democratic politicians, and they have their futures and the future of their party to consider. If Obama goes to the convention with even a 20 delegate lead and they vote to give the nomination to Clinton, there will be serious repercussions for both futures. Especially with the baggage that the Clintons bring with them.

If there was hope for her in Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania, it's fleeting fast. They wrote off Obama's win in Iowa because it was a caucus and "regular people can't afford to go vote in caucuses". They wrote off South Carolina's big win because of the large black population there. Two things about Wisconsin are they had a primary, not a caucus, and they don't have very many blacks. The excuses are getting thinner. And with the Teamsters' decision to endorse Obama, I don't think OH, TX and PA are a sure thing for Clinton at all. If she loses even one of those states, especially OH or TX, I think the McCain vs. Obama national race will officially begin. (Even Bill agrees.)

[cross-posted with SS and Choirboy again]

[ 21. February 2008, 14:06: Message edited by: Professor Kirke ]

Posts: 4123 | From: Land of Mary | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Joyeux

Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851

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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
The truth is most Americans are too depressed with their insular daily lives to think of the nation... If he can continue to inspire people from their lethargy enough to simply care about events outside their individual concerns, I can see only good results.

Gort has mostly nailed it - the fact that Obama gets people off of their duffs, and starts them thinking beyond their own four walls and daily lives bodes well for him, although I don't attribute that lethergy to depression, per se. In the area of getting people interested, I like Obama better than the other candidates.

Ultimately, I hope that the greater voter turnout this year, if this* is any indication, will continue regardless of the election's outcome. Once people realize first-hand how important each vote is, then we can change how government represents the people.

*the article linked pulled up for me with no registration required, so I hope it will be visible for all.

(eta - left out word)

[ 21. February 2008, 19:03: Message edited by: Joyeux ]

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Float?...Do science too

Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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NY Times is a bit Clinton focused....if it was her in front at all, I suspect you would see a larger lead the actual.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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On the debate: I thought "change you can Xerox" would have been a good line if Clinton had a stronger case, and wasn't a bad line anyway, really, but she got booed! And then got a standing ovation at the end ... very interesting. Her wrap-up is being read as valedictory, except of course by Howard Wolfson. Also very interesting.
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Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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I wonder how many Texans actually watched and whether it will have any effect....

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged



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