Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
The NY Post made the Obama photo and the story of Hillary's camp leaking it their front page article today. But then, it is the Post after all.
-------------------- On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Mad Geo
 Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Apparently the Internet wags the NY Post dog. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
-------------------- Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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mousethief
 Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mad Geo: quote: Originally posted by MouseThief: quote: Originally posted by ken: This is a really conmplex bit of political process. If it goes to the Convention then, angst or no angst, the delegates need to decide which candidate is least unnacceptable to their opponents.
Although the Democrats have shown for some time that they are perfectly capable of, and seemingly willing to, fumble on exactly that point.
The problem with the set-up as it now exists is that in order to win the nomination for one's party, one has to pander to the away-from-the-other-party side of the party, then to win the election one has to pander to the middle ground of the nation as a whole. Finding somebody who can pull this off is a real struggle for both parties, although the Dems have a knack of missing it better than the GOP does.
Although, admittedly, the last four presidential elections seem to have been as much about personality as about issues.
I don't see any of this as a "problem" per se. Pandering to the middle ground is part of the point. If we emphasized/pandered to the freaks of either side, we lose. In a way the last eight years have been an exercise in pandering to the (Christian) Right. No thanks.
I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, I'm saying ken's optimism is unfounded.
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mirrizin: So, heh. This might be so-called "dog whistle politics," where Clinton is airing something that would be a non-issue to most people, but might remain an issue to Texans who (stereotypically) have a strong sense of nationalism (don't want to see US president in for'n garb).
But they should be used to the Bush clan dressed up in Saudi garb, I imagine.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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RuthW
 liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Anybody see the debate tonight? I'm surfing around the net to see the "analysis" (aka spin) and figure out who won -- from all that it looks like it was either a draw or a slight edge to Obama.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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wombat
Shipmate
# 5180
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Lady Alicia of Scouseland: quote: Originally posted by RuthW: [QB] quote: Originally posted by ken: As a feminist friend of mine pointed out on Saturday, African American men got the vote fifty years before white women.
Many African American men and women didn't actually get the vote until 45 years after white women. I take it your feminist friend is drinking the same Kool-Aid as Gloria Steinem.
eh? That's confusing. 15th amendment - February 3, 1870. 19th Amendment - August 18, 1920.
Here's the full story. In 1861-5, the North and South fought a civil war over the future of the US. The North won, and abolished slavery in 1865 in the thirteenth amendment.
However, it quickly became apparent that unless Blacks could vote, then the South would basically push them as close to slavery as they could get away with. This leads first to the 14th amendment to define civil rights and to overturn the Dred Scott decision which had claimed Blacks were not citizens, then to the 15th amendment to give black men the vote.
For a time, black men were able to vote; between 1867 and 1876, 2 Black senators were elected, some representatives, and a lot of black officials at the state and local level.
However, between 1870 and 1877, the old ex-Confederate / pre-Civil War Slaveowner elites took back political control of the town through a mix of politicking, racism, and violence. The North was tired of the whole thing and finally gave up, allowing Southerners to suppress the blacks.
Between 1877 and 1895, white Southerners gradually stripped Blacks (and some poor Whites) of the vote by instituting things like expensive poll taxes, literacy tests, etc, which most blacks and some whites couldn't afford/pass. About 90% of Southern blacks effectively lost the ability to vote. And the remaining 10% had to be very careful. This is part of a larger system of apartheid to segregate the black community.
This lasts until the civil rights acts of the 1960s, which finally restores the ability to vote to Blacks.
Women gained the right to vote in 4 western states by 1900, then got the right to vote for all women in 1920 due to the wartime service of women convincing enough men to give in to the demands of the American suffragettes.
-------------------- John Walter Biles Historian in Training
Posts: 363 | From: Maryland | Registered: Nov 2003
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by SeraphimSarov: quote: Originally posted by Campbellite: quote: Originally posted by Choirboy: Nader is largely a has been.
Nah. Nader is more of a "never was".
to be fair to Ralph, he is an activist who accomplished a lot of good for consumers and did shake some out of their political complacency in the Democratic Party in the mid to late 90's.
Yes, he was a force of nature, back in the day. But IMHO, being a presidential spoiler is ruining his legacy. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
-------------------- Blessed Gator, pray for us! --"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon") --"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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RuthW
 liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
No kidding. I voted for Nader -- twice! -- but my reaction when I heard he was thinking of running again was pretty much "oh just go away, ya moron."
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by bc_anglican: It will be a blowout, Clinton/Obama will win every state except the South.
I cannot see two lawyers in charge: I believe it will be Obama/Richardson over McCain/Paul. Poor old Ralph Nader will attempt to be the spoiler again, but no one will vote for him for a post higher than dogcatcher!
-------------------- If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Bullfrog.
 Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
I don't know if I can see him picking someone like Ron Paul for VP. Given McCain's age, I think people will be taking a close look at his VP choice, rather than just seeing him as a token to expand McCain's base.
Also, looking at the number of people who voted for Paul, it's unlikely that taking him on would even appreciably expand McCain's voting base.
-------------------- Some say that man is the root of all evil Others say God's a drunkard for pain Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Golden Key: quote: Originally posted by SeraphimSarov: quote: Originally posted by Campbellite: quote: Originally posted by Choirboy: Nader is largely a has been.
Nah. Nader is more of a "never was".
to be fair to Ralph, he is an activist who accomplished a lot of good for consumers and did shake some out of their political complacency in the Democratic Party in the mid to late 90's.
Yes, he was a force of nature, back in the day. But IMHO, being a presidential spoiler is ruining his legacy.
Agreed! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
-------------------- "For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Living in Gin
 Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
I read some blog recently (sorry I can no longer find it to provide a link) that McCain picking Condi Rice as VP would be a potential nightmare for the Dems, and not just because she's a black female.
I personally think Rice is "damaged goods" because of her involvement in the Iraq war as a senior member of the Bush Administration, and would do little to dispel the notion of a McCain presidency being nothing more than a third term for Bush.
As for Obama's Veep pick, I've seen Sen. Jim Webb's (D-VA) name thrown around a bit, but I think the Obama camp would prefer somebody with some executive experience rather than another Senator. Also, I doubt the Dems would be willing to give up a hard-won Senate seat when the Senate is already so closely divided.
Thoughts?
-------------------- It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Bullfrog.
 Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
A McCain-Rice ticket would certainly add another interesting twist to what is already an interesting race, not to mention giving the GOP a chance to actually demonstrate their willingness to put women and minorities into positions of power.
OTOH, I agree with LIG that she's got some serious baggage from the Bush administration, and that this would seriously come back to haunt her if she ran (or indeed was involved in any federal level politics).
Come to think of it, is there anyone in Bush's current administration who could conceivably distance him or herself from all the shit that's passed through these past eight years?
-------------------- Some say that man is the root of all evil Others say God's a drunkard for pain Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Mad Geo
 Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
I think the Publicans would have had a black candidate first, if Powell's wife hadn't said hell no.
Rice is toast. I can't imagine a sane candidate linking itself to this administration in any way for the next 8 years, minimum.
-------------------- Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Jason™
 Host emeritus
# 9037
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by RuthW: Anybody see the debate tonight? I'm surfing around the net to see the "analysis" (aka spin) and figure out who won -- from all that it looks like it was either a draw or a slight edge to Obama.
It was a little better than last week's but still pretty painfully boring. Clinton complained about "always having to answer the first question" and referencing SNL and how Obama gets easy treatment from the media. They fought about healthcare for the first 16 minutes. In the second half Russert opened up with a "jump-ball" question about Putin's successor -- Clinton fielded it but couldn't produce the guy's name accurately (she said "Med-uh, Mev-uh, Medvedev, whatever.")
They showed the clip of Clinton mocking Obama earlier in the week, and when it came back Obama said, "Sounds good" which got a big laugh.
Overall, not much to remember but nothing game-changing, which is what Clinton was probably hoping for.
Posts: 4123 | From: Land of Mary | Registered: Feb 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
My quote of the night...
In response to a question about energy policy Obama replied:
"Exxon Mobil made 11 Billion dollars last quarter. They are not going to give up those profits easily!"
-------------------- "You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
McCaain's VP choice will not be easy. If I were he, I would pick Elizabeth Dole, who showed herself to be a better campaigner than her husband. This might also give McCain an edge among women to counterbalance the droves of African-Americans and Hispanics, who would turn out for an Obama/Richardson ticket.
Her record is quite solidly conservative, but her image is not that of a rabid, vitriolic right-winger. She would, I think, satisfy most conservatives, including the religious right.
Greta
Greta
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Joyeux
 Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
Choirboy -
I like the thought of Liddy Dole. I preferred her over GWB 8 years ago, and was very sad that her campaign didn't last longer. Yes, it could be a good choice for McCain to have her as VP, but I don't think that would serve the purpose of reassuring the conservatives, since, as has been stated by other shipmates, and by historians for many years, the VP really has no power. I can't imagine McCain listening to any advice from his VP, regardless of who that person is.
FWIW - I agree that Powell would have been the candidate, had his wife been willing. (wistful sigh, because he would have been a great president)
-------------------- Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
What? Surely they've seen this?
It's no big deal. Neither is it for any other politician.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Choirboy: What? Surely they've seen this?
It's no big deal. Neither is it for any other politician.
No big deal to you or anyone with a brain, but out in Midland TX they know full well she's a good Christian Methodist lady and likely believe the scam email about Obama...
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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RuthW
 liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
John Lewis has switched his support to Obama -- for real this time. Let the rest of the superdelegates take note!
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
John McCain is going to someone like Fred Thompson. Ron Paul has already said that he doesn't support McCain. Paul is trying to save his congressional seat. It wouldn't surprise mr if he lost in the Republican primary.
Obama should choose Richardson.
-------------------- Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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Living in Gin
 Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
Wow, I can see the McCain/Thompson '08 campaign slogan now: Get off my lawn, you damn kids!
It would be like a live-action Statler and Waldorf.
-------------------- It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by RuthW: John Lewis has switched his support to Obama -- for real this time. Let the rest of the superdelegates take note!
a truly honorable man and rare!
-------------------- "For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Mad Geo: I think the Publicans would have had a black candidate first, if Powell's wife hadn't said hell no.
Rice is toast. I can't imagine a sane candidate linking itself to this administration in any way for the next 8 years, minimum.
McCain will have a hard enough time distancing himself from the last 8 years.
-------------------- "For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Joyeux
 Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
Choirboy - my apologies. I misread your post, thinking that you were making assumptions about the general intellectual abilities of those of us who live in Texas.
Assumptions that Comper's Child appears to now have posted. Mrs Bush is a former teacher and librarian, who above all knows better than to believe that something is true because of reading it in an email. Or possibly Comper's Child meant that any person in Midland, TX, believes something because it's written in an email?
Comper's Child - would you please clarify for me what you meant?
-------------------- Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mad Geo
 Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
Crap!
-------------------- Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote: He (Bloomberg) declares in the piece, posted on the newspaper's Web site, that he might lend his support to a candidate who, in his words, takes an independent, nonpartisan approach.
Oh, no. He's gonna support Ralph Nader.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Living in Gin
 Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
At least we get to keep him as our mayor for a couple more years.
I wouldn't be shocked if he eventually endorses Obama. Just a hunch.
-------------------- It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Joyeux: Choirboy - my apologies. I misread your post, thinking that you were making assumptions about the general intellectual abilities of those of us who live in Texas.
Assumptions that Comper's Child appears to now have posted. Mrs Bush is a former teacher and librarian, who above all knows better than to believe that something is true because of reading it in an email. Or possibly Comper's Child meant that any person in Midland, TX, believes something because it's written in an email?
Comper's Child - would you please clarify for me what you meant?
I was being rudely dismissive of a type of Evangelicalism, which is so anxious to disparage any Democrat ( =liberal = non-Christian...) that makes it easy to believe the "Obama Muslim" email. In fact I have relatives who forwarded it on to me.
I frankly think a large part of our populace does not think, but rather is quick to knee-jerk reactions about supposed Christian values.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Joyeux
 Ship's Lady of Laughter
# 3851
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Posted
Comper's Child - I appreciate you explaining what you meant. Thank you. I definitely agree that much of populace doesn't think things through. Probably a knee-jerk reaction occurs among many groups, not just evangelical Christians, though.
Thoughts on whether Bloomberg might accept a VP spot? I don't have any opinion / wish for that one way or the other, btw.
Different news stations are starting to dig a little bit into Obama's record as a representative (in the generic sense) at the state level, and finding that he voted "Present" instead of for / against a variety of controversial bills. Some of the commentary suggested that this is fairly standard practice in Illinois, which makes me wonder how anybody gets anything done. I missed the newscast the next evening, so if they continued the "story" line, I don't know. I'll see if I can find linkable information on this, but if anybody can shed more light on it, I'd appreciate it.
Interesting here in Texas the past week... we've gotten recorded messages from *both Dem candidates, *one from McCain's group, *one from someone supporting McCain, and a personal call from Huckabee's campaign. Early voting ends Friday.
LIG - Love the campaign slogan! (contemplates a circus game along those lines. Goes to check if there's anything similar already... Nope!)
-------------------- Float?...Do science too
Posts: 4318 | From: over th... no, there! | Registered: Dec 2002
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
I can't imagine a man like Bloomberg, who's used to running things, playing second fiddle as they say. Too bad as he's brilliant and could tempt me either direction...
You're right, I was generalising in a most unfortunate way about some Evangelical types. [ 28. February 2008, 14:29: Message edited by: Comper's Child ]
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Evangelicals are not just conservatives, says this liberal for Canada evangelical.
-------------------- I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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iGeek
 Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
This morning on NPR Richard Land of the SBC says they should be.
And though I appreciate Canadian evangelicals I don't think they have much sway in this particular election (but do appreciate their prayers).
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Orb
 Eye eye Cap'n!
# 3256
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Posted
The Republicans had a hard enough time finding ONE (arguably) decent, semi-electable candidate...they're going to struggle to find a second at this short notice!
Thompson? He was hardly arsed about the presidential nomination, so I don't suspect he'll be very bothered about VP.
At lot of you guys think Richardson for vice-president. I would have said the same before Obama started trouncing Clinton in the Hispanic vote. Obviously Richardson's international experience would be a selling point, but I'm not sure he did enough in the presidential race in terms of giving valuable new ideas - which is what Obama will want to run this race on.
Would Richardson's New Mexico history give the Democrats a chance of winning Arizona, the neighbouring home state of John McCain? Or is that hopelessly optimistic?
Out of interest, how disadvantageous do people think it would be for Obama to choose a more radical VP like Kunicich, Gravel or Edwards? How likely is he to go for someone like Kucinich? I can see Edwards as a possibility, but would he accept?
P.S. Does anyone else wish Hillary would just shut up and go away now? It's getting embarrassing...
-------------------- “You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.” Ursula K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed
Posts: 5032 | From: Easton, Bristol | Registered: Aug 2002
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iGeek
 Number of the Feast
# 777
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Orb: P.S. Does anyone else wish Hillary would just shut up and go away now? It's getting embarrassing...
Perhaps next Tuesday evening she'll have the opportunity to do that.
Posts: 2150 | From: West End, Gulfopolis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Orb
 Eye eye Cap'n!
# 3256
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by cqg: quote: Originally posted by Orb: P.S. Does anyone else wish Hillary would just shut up and go away now? It's getting embarrassing...
Perhaps next Tuesday evening she'll have the opportunity to do that.
Here's hoping...
[ETA: But of course we shouldn't hope for anything...we should look for SOLUTIONS, right Hillary?...you know GOOD solutions like YELLING a lot and nodding your head in that annoying rhythmic way...] [ 28. February 2008, 15:56: Message edited by: Orb ]
-------------------- “You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.” Ursula K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed
Posts: 5032 | From: Easton, Bristol | Registered: Aug 2002
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Orb:
Out of interest, how disadvantageous do people think it would be for Obama to choose a more radical VP like Kunicich, Gravel or Edwards? How likely is he to go for someone like Kucinich? I can see Edwards as a possibility, but would he accept?
IMHO, very disadvantageous.
Obama hasn't yet begun to endure any true media scrutiny in this primary "Obamafest".
When he does, it will become clear that he has many difficult isuues when it comes to general election voters.
Campaign finance hypocrisy...
Ties to some very unsavory characters, including possible financial scandals...
Questions about his (true) position on issues regarding Israel as a result of activities of the church he is a member of...
Doubts about his/his wife's patriotism...
I think he has to make a VP play to the center out of sheer political necessity.
-------------------- "You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Orb:
<snip> Obviously Richardson's international experience would be a selling point, but I'm not sure he did enough in the presidential race in terms of giving valuable new ideas - which is what Obama will want to run this race on.
<snip>
Out of interest, how disadvantageous do people think it would be for Obama to choose a more radical VP like Kunicich, Gravel or Edwards?
I was interested in taking a look at Richardson before he dropped out. I found him to be a TERRRIBLE campaigner -- he couldn't even give people interested in voting for him a reason to believe that he was viable. I don't doubt that he's a good man, but he really can't express himself in a way that makes people think he has something to say. I think he'd be a seious liability during the campaign on that score.
As to Kucinich and Gravel, they would be serious liabilities for toehr reasons. Gravel seems like a senile fruitcake, and Kucinich drove Cleveland into bankruptcy. Why would Obama want to spend his campaign efending the record of his running mate?
Edwards is a little more plausible, but he was unable to get any traction on his own. So you have to ask who he would be bringing to the party. The old way of selecting a VP was to find someone who could help secure a needed (i.e., reasonably large) state that was in play. I would look for someone who could help in Ohio or Texas. If the choice was strong on foreign policy, so much the better.
--Tom Clune [ 28. February 2008, 16:08: Message edited by: tclune ]
-------------------- This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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wombat
Shipmate
# 5180
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by mirrizin:
Come to think of it, is there anyone in Bush's current administration who could conceivably distance him or herself from all the shit that's passed through these past eight years?
Gates, the new Secretary of Defense, former President of Texas A&M. He's shown himself to be 20 times the man Rumsfield was, and he very much came into office in a 'I'm doing this for the country, not as a Bush crony' way.
-------------------- John Walter Biles Historian in Training
Posts: 363 | From: Maryland | Registered: Nov 2003
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
In other news: Ralph Nader has chosen Matt Gonzalez, a 47yr old Green Party member who was elected President of the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in 2002, as his VP running mate.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
...and, on behalf of San Francisco, I apologize for Matt. Our mayor supports Hillary, and he's worried about this spoiling the race.
-------------------- Blessed Gator, pray for us! --"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon") --"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alfred E. Neuman
 What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Yeah, well Gavin Newsom could spoil anyones race... especially if it's for the cover of GQ magazine.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Gavin may well be thinking of being pres. some day. Fortunately, he's not in the running now.
-------------------- Blessed Gator, pray for us! --"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon") --"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Living in Gin: Speaking of Obama's Veep pick:
Chris Bowers: Picking Obama's Vice-President
I disagree that initial opposition to the Iraq war should be a sine qua non, especially when the only possibilities left standing are those with almost zero name recognition. Yeah, the war and support for it proved to be a mistake (although it would probably have been less of one had the war been more competently planned and conducted). But it was just one mistake, a very common mistake at the time, and people learn from their mistakes, becoming sadder and wiser. This issue is water that went over the dam four years ago. Isn't one cocksure person on the ticket saying "see, I was right all the time, I told you so" enough?
I was about to suggest Madeleine Albright (Clinton's Secretary of State) until discovering that she is 70. IMHO, a well-known southern woman with great expertise in foreign affairs would be ideal, but there may be no such animal. How about three out of these four qualifications?
-------------------- Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
 Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Comper's Child: Wasn't Albright born abroad?
An interesting quandary: I seem to remember the Connie doesn't deny veeps from being foreign-born, only presidents. So if one has a foreign-born veep and kicks it, who becomes prez?
-------------------- This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Alogon: I disagree that initial opposition to the Iraq war should be a sine qua non, especially when the only possibilities left standing are those with almost zero name recognition. Yeah, the war and support for it proved to be a mistake (although it would probably have been less of one had the war been more competently planned and conducted).
I agree it shouldn't be a sine qua non, but it would be a big plus.
The war could not have been less of a mistake; it was sold on the basis of fear, and therefore there was no support built among the public for rebuilding afterwards. But trying to sell the war as a principled thing that needed doing would have had no support at all. The choices were not going to war, and tricking the public into going to war based on fear. The administration chose poorly, largely because it didn't think it would need to engage in any nation building.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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