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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
She simply takes to heart the sign on the minister's door: "Think for yourself - your minister may be wrong."
Exactly.
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
You should look beyond the polemics of a retired pastor whose politics were born of the radical 60's and early 70's
I watched the clip of Wrights sermon for the first time this morning on Fox (they beeped the N word). Even I, over the other side of the Pond, clued up straight away to the rhetoric. It reminded me of 60s and 70s stuff that has traditionally been aired on history programmes and such. Wright struck me as a man stuck in another era and while his polemic might have served well 40 years ago, it sounds oddly discordant now, especially when compared to Obama's language, tone and stated aims.
quote:
If Wright has had any influence on Obama's political idealism, it appears to have set the democratic front-runner on a course to end racial divisiveness, not enflame it.
This is coming across in his book already, even though I'm only a few pages in. And it isn't just about race: he seems to aim for conciliation in other areas too. I skipped ahead a bit in the book, as I do sometimes with books, just flicking through before getting down to reading properly. He told the story of a doctor who had emailed him expressing a wish to support him but feeling unable to because, though the doctor believed Obama to be fair-minded, the comment concerning abortion on his website suggested he was not fair-minded after all. Obama went to the website, saw the offending comments and expressed feeling "a pang of shame" (p196, British edition). The words were not his but he understood why his staffers had used them. However, he wrote to his staffers and changed the words so that although his pro-choice view was still reflected, it was reflected in a respectful and balanced way.
quote:
Instead, he projects a self-effacing, literate, good-humored, intelligent aura of a person capable of thinking on his feet.
This is coming through in his book*, too. Unless he is the world's best actor, it would seem to me that the guy is genuine. That really must hurt his opponents.
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*I'm not going to go on and on about his book. I just felt like referring to it given this recent development. I didn't go searching for the book either; I saw it on the shelves of W H Smith, a national chain selling books, magazines, stationery, CDs, to be found on the high street of every decent sized town upwards here in England. Good quality and well trusted, if Obama's book is selling there then there must be some interest in him among the general population here.
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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe
Posts: 3737 | From: home of the best Rugby League team in the universe | Registered: Jun 2005
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Hiro's Leap
Shipmate
# 12470
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Here you go, HL.
Thanks Gort. From that link we have:- Jesus was a poor black man living in a country controlled by rich white people, so He understands how blacks in the US feel.
- People hate Obama because he isn't white, rich or privileged, unlike Clinton or Guilliani (or Europeans, oddly enough).
- Hillary can't understand race issues because she's white, and so blacks should support Obama.
Whether you agree or disagree, surely those aren't unusual opinions for a black pastor to hold? The tone is admittedly strong (and dated), but the actual content didn't seem as controversial as I'd expected. Still, I've got a nasty feeling the Pookah may be right and it'll hurt Obama's campaign with swing voters. Hope not - the guy's grown on me, and Clinton seems pretty negative.
The U.S. elections are interesting this year because of the passion involved, but apart from the unhappy prospect of yet more right-wing Supreme Court appointments I'm not too bothered about the result. Certainly not compared to 2000 and 2004. The overwhelmingly important issue for me is energy/climate change, and here the remaining candidates have broadly similar policies.
[ 16. March 2008, 12:16: Message edited by: Hiro's Leap ]
Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007
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Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
The overwhelmingly important issue for me is energy/climate change, and here the remaining candidates have broadly similar policies.
Whereas for me, as a fellow English person, it would be important to see a POTUS who could build bridges and mend fences, who could also bring balance to the fiscal policies at home since whenever America sneezes we will be sure to catch a cold, and who could lead on the world stage with confidence but conciliation to act as a counterbalance to a growing China and a resurgent (but seemingly unstable) Russia.
Secretly I'd also like to see the old, open America come back again, but maybe that's gone for good?
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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe
Posts: 3737 | From: home of the best Rugby League team in the universe | Registered: Jun 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
Secretly I'd also like to see the old, open America come back again, but maybe that's gone for good?
What in your view has changed? What do you mean by "open"?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
Perhaps she is referring to the ill-named "Patriot Act"?
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
My impression of Jeremiah Wright is that he is probably in the line of most liberation theologians. Liberation theologians tend to be very blunt about what they consider to be evil and life-rejecting government systems. So when they say that America or capitalism is evil, people unfamiliar with liberation theology will immediately think they are anti-American or anti-liberal. Not necessarily. Most critical leftists use bold rhetoric to underscore the gravity of what they consider oppressive or life-rejecting policies.
I'm still uncomfortable by some of it. I do think there is such a thing as anti-Americanism that is distinct from a rigorous and fair critique of American foreign policy/values. On the other hand, just because Wright says "God d*** America" doesn't necessarily mean he is a crazy anti-American bigot.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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GoodCatholicLad
Shipmate
# 9231
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bc_anglican:
My impression of Jeremiah Wright is that he is probably in the line of most liberation theologians. Liberation theologians tend to be very blunt about what they consider to be evil and life-rejecting government systems. So when they say that America or capitalism is evil, people unfamiliar with liberation theology will immediately think they are anti-American or anti-liberal. Not necessarily. Most critical leftists use bold rhetoric to underscore the gravity of what they consider oppressive or life-rejecting policies.
I'm still uncomfortable by some of it. I do think there is such a thing as anti-Americanism that is distinct from a rigorous and fair critique of American foreign policy/values. On the other hand, just because Wright says "God d*** America" doesn't necessarily mean he is a crazy anti-American bigot.
Wright isn't in the same ballpark as liberation theologists like Leonardo Boff or Gustavo Gutierrez. he has not an ounce of gravitas that they possess. He couldn't hold a candle to them. Boff and Gutierrez preach hope, charity and love that all people have dignity and worth. They are some of the greatest thinkers in the Catholic world. They preach something optimistic, that all should stand up and be counted and have a say in their societies. I've watched some of Wright's sermons in full, I don't see that.
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All you have is right now.
Posts: 1234 | From: San Francisco California | Registered: Mar 2005
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Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
Secretly I'd also like to see the old, open America come back again, but maybe that's gone for good?
What in your view has changed? What do you mean by "open"?
In part it is as Campbellite suggested: The Patriot Act. In part it's perception. (Perhaps the two are linked)
I haven't been back to the US since 9/11 and of course my trip there was drastically changed by 9/11. The event caused a huge shake-up of confidence in the US; not at all surprising. But, for example, for a British citizen to go on vacation in the States now means our eyeballs have to be processed (or whatever we have to go through to provide enough personal information to your government) when applying for a passport. We had to change our rules here to keep your guys happy. That is kind of strange, given that some of my people died on 9/11 too.
Not long ago, one of your top dogs (can't remember which one) told us off for not being tough enough on terrorists or something and I get the feeling - and it is only a feeling - that if I do ever board a plane to the States again, I may be perceived as coming from a country full of troublesome Muslims rather than from a friendly country which generally works in cooperation with the US.
On top of that, of course, there are little sentimental things like the restrictions around the White House that weren't there when I was last in DC or the slightly more ominous ones like the reports we hear about expanded wire tapping or the watching of foreign nationals, etc, etc. They kind of have a drip-drip effect on the psyche.
Other people I know have been similarly made to think twice about going to the States, which I think is a great shame as it is an amazing country with great people. However, others don't give a shit so long as Mickey Mouse says hi to their children! But I was always a lone traveller, visiting friends and going off the beaten path. And that is what I would be if I were to go over there to see my friends for another visit. But I feel a bit nervous of being that person again, not because of 9/11 itself, but because I'm not sure how relaxed you guys are anymore, whether an innocent remark or talking unwittingly to the 'wrong' people may get me into difficulties. (And who are the 'wrong' people these days?)
That probably sounds paranoid, but I don't feel paranoid. Just uncertain. I always thought one of America's strengths was its ability to be confident and relaxed and welcoming. I'm no longer sure it will be. That both makes me sad and also a bit hesitant.
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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe
Posts: 3737 | From: home of the best Rugby League team in the universe | Registered: Jun 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The "Patriot" Act is an insult to all free-thinking and sensible people, and many of our top dogs seem to be morons, but honestly, Littlelady, the vast majority of what you discuss has to do with how the US is portrayed by the media you are consuming. Entering the country has become a stupid pain in the ass, yes -- but if you came back, once you'd gotten past customs you'd find Americans are still relaxed and friendly (and still in love with British accents).
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
Not long ago, one of your top dogs (can't remember which one) told us off for not being tough enough on terrorists or something and I get the feeling - and it is only a feeling - that if I do ever board a plane to the States again, I may be perceived as coming from a country full of troublesome Muslims rather than from a friendly country which generally works in cooperation with the US.
To many folks I know, the UK is perceived as both. It is also perceived by many I know that in our country it is due to some sort of political correctness that folks such as you and 80 year old grannies are sometimes given the once over so as not to blatantly show what we are really concerned about: troublesome Muslims.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
Do you have anything to say about the race for the POTUS? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Pond wars --> That-a-way
Charlotte
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
Do you have anything to say about the race for the POTUS?
Pond wars --> That-a-way
Charlotte
Yes.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I have sympathy for wanting the thread to stay on track, but it would be nice if you'd hold off on the junior hosting at least until a real tangent develops. And no pond war was developing -- I was simply curious about Littlelady's perceptions.
Did anyone else catch Obama's speech this morning? It was brilliant. I will be so proud of this country if he becomes president. And I'm afraid we'll be lost for at least another generation if he does not.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Did anyone else catch Obama's speech this morning? It was brilliant. I will be so proud of this country if he becomes president. And I'm afraid we'll be lost for at least another generation if he does not.
This Republican was impressed. I can't agree wtih your last sentence and based on that speech I don't think Obama would either. He recognized that solving the issues he outlined would take longer than 8 years.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Yes, of course, but if McCain or Clinton is president, we won't even get started on solving them, and business as usual will continue indefinitely.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Zwingli
Shipmate
# 4438
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Posted
RuthW - what in particular do you expect Obama to do, if elected, to start solving these issues? I haven't been able to tell how his policies differ from Clinton's, except on technical issues relating to healthcare insurance mandates.
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
RuthW - what in particular do you expect Obama to do, if elected, to start solving these issues? I haven't been able to tell how his policies differ from Clinton's, except on technical issues relating to healthcare insurance mandates.
I think a significant part of the point is that politicians have talked in a way that divides the country, and then acts in a way that caters to lobbyists. The call was to get and keep people engaged in the process, so that the full-time manipulations of the few will be opposed by democratically more powerful full-time political action of the many. Obama does not appear to promise anything more than to lead in a way that attempts to unite the diverse groups in this country.
His speech was, to my mind, an object lesson of what he meant. I think that perhaps he could use the "bully pulpit" to reshape the country. I thought that this was by far the finest speech I've heard from him, and one of the best speeches I've ever heard from anyone.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
The "Patriot" Act is an insult to all free-thinking and sensible people, and many of our top dogs seem to be morons, but honestly, Littlelady, the vast majority of what you discuss has to do with how the US is portrayed by the media you are consuming. Entering the country has become a stupid pain in the ass, yes -- but if you came back, once you'd gotten past customs you'd find Americans are still relaxed and friendly (and still in love with British accents).
Well, I was certainly not in any way having a dig at the American people. It's the authorities there which were the subject of my musings. Not that it will be hugely different here; we have our own obsession with terrorism and keeping an eye on folks. It's just England is my home nation so I know what the ropes are. And of course you are right: in the media since Iraq there has been a greater concentration of negative reporting when it comes to America, which I object to but which I'm powerless to do anything about. However, being exposed to that drip-drip effect is bound to have played on any uncertainties that I may be feeling.
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
Do you have anything to say about the race for the POTUS?
Pond wars --> That-a-way
I wasn't aware of a pond war developing. If you have ever read any of my posts when it comes to things American you will not see me in any pond war.
And actually, the topic of perception is pertinent to a discussion on the POTUS. I'm now on page 317 of Obama's book (362 pages in all and I only started it at the weekend!) where he is actually talking about just this issue: how America is perceived abroad. He recognises how vital it is to get America's reputation back on track. Now I'm someone who has spent real time in the States among real people (as opposed to the tourist trail, I mean, or the youth visa circuit). Even though I'm English through and through, I really would love it if America could regain a positive reputation abroad. Obama recognises both the situation as was and as is, and he also can see a future. And I do actually think, especially after reading so much of his book, that if anyone can build the bridges necessary then he's the person to do it. He has exactly the right approach, IMO.
However, I don't agree with his approach towards teachers when they are on the job. We have tried what he suggests and it makes no difference and is not good for morale. Sounds good on paper, but not in practice. So he isn't perfect ( ), but he sure sounds like a damn fine option!
And something else I discovered while reading his book is that if his old law offices were on the rail station side of Sears Tower, it is extremely likely that he was looking out at me (and a bunch of other people) who were looking up at Sears just after the second plane hit on 9/11. Quite spooky!
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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe
Posts: 3737 | From: home of the best Rugby League team in the universe | Registered: Jun 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
For those that missed it, here is the text of Obama's speech. (NY Times site. I don't think it requires free registration, but it may...)
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
Here it is on YouTube. A good speech indeed...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Littlelady
Shipmate
# 9616
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
For those that missed it, here is the text of Obama's speech. (NY Times site. I don't think it requires free registration, but it may...)
That was quite a speech. Thanks for the link.
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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe
Posts: 3737 | From: home of the best Rugby League team in the universe | Registered: Jun 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Littlelady:
Well, I was certainly not in any way having a dig at the American people.
Oh, I didn't think you were!
quote:
And actually, the topic of perception is pertinent to a discussion on the POTUS.
Indeed it is. One of the reasons I'm so anxious to see Obama take the helm is that I think he can help change the way the US is seen abroad. We had the good will of almost the entire world after 9/11, and Bush & Co. squandered it.
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
RuthW - what in particular do you expect Obama to do, if elected, to start solving these issues? I haven't been able to tell how his policies differ from Clinton's, except on technical issues relating to healthcare insurance mandates.
I think a significant part of the point is that politicians have talked in a way that divides the country, and then acts in a way that caters to lobbyists. The call was to get and keep people engaged in the process, so that the full-time manipulations of the few will be opposed by democratically more powerful full-time political action of the many. Obama does not appear to promise anything more than to lead in a way that attempts to unite the diverse groups in this country.
His speech was, to my mind, an object lesson of what he meant. I think that perhaps he could use the "bully pulpit" to reshape the country. I thought that this was by far the finest speech I've heard from him, and one of the best speeches I've ever heard from anyone.
Exactly. Even if all Obama ever does is speak honestly to the American people, he will be head and shoulders above any leader we've had in my adult life. He told the truth about race in this country, about the hardest, most divisive, and ugliest issue we have, and he pointed the way forward.
I frankly don't give a shit about the technical details of his or Clinton's policies, as whoever is elected will have to get their stuff through Congress anyway; nothing comes out the other end of the political process in the same shape it starts with. It's the principles of his approach to the political process that are important to me.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
One of the reasons I'm so anxious to see Obama take the helm is that I think he can help change the way the US is seen abroad. We had the good will of almost the entire world after 9/11, and Bush & Co. squandered it.
And I think it could especially change the way we see ourselves. I do care what the world thinks, but if we cannot come to grips with who we really are as a people, their impressions won't really change that much I fear.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Prediction update: based on my earlier efforts have your grains of salt ready.
IMO if there was any doubt Obama locked up the nomination today. As a hugely skeptical libertarian type I admit my admiration for his remarkable skill at choosing the 'right' words and staying above the partisan political bullshit. He'll choose Bill Richardson as veep for the Latino vote and to mitigate his lack of foreign affairs experience.
Being a glutton for punishment I'll stick with Huckabee.
McCain/Huckabee win by 1% over Obama/Richardson.
What ultimately costs Obama the election is his insistence on getting the troops out of Iraq on a pre-determined schedule: too many people perceive this as an abdication of responsibility in cleaning up the mess we made and an indication Obama lacks 'gravitas'.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
too many people perceive this as an abdication of responsibility in cleaning up the mess we made
People care about this? A lot of them? Honestly, it would be nice if this were actually true, but I have a hard time believing this.
A blogger on Slate commenting on the speech mentioned Langston Hughes' great poem, "Let America Be America Again." I think it's appropriate.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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basso
Ship’s Crypt Keeper
# 4228
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
A blogger on Slate commenting on the speech mentioned Langston Hughes' great poem, "Let America Be America Again." I think it's appropriate.
I saw it compared to Lincoln's speech at the Cooper Union. I read it over lunch and finished with tears in my eyes.
I agree with your comment above: quote:
Even if all Obama ever does is speak honestly to the American people, he will be head and shoulders above any leader we've had in my adult life. He told the truth about race in this country, about the hardest, most divisive, and ugliest issue we have, and he pointed the way forward.
Exactly.
Posts: 4358 | From: Bay Area, Calif | Registered: Mar 2003
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
Can we say that the true "Pro-Americans" are those who are not afraid to tell America the truth, while at the same time, calling her to be a better country, to live up to her ideals of genuine freedom and equality?
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
I think that would be a patriot in the best sense of the word. Cheap patriotism, in my opinion, is a politician with a flag on his lapel who ends every speech with "God bless America".
Greta
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Phos Hilaron
Shipmate
# 6914
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Posted
Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier, but do any of the Presidential candidates have any opinions on Gauntanamo Bay? Has anyone asked them about this?
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Gaero?.......Gaero!
Posts: 1684 | From: Choson | Registered: May 2004
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Laura
General nuisance
# 10
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Posted
Just heard the speech. It was ... good. Really good. Just .... really good. The sort of thing we haven't heard in ages.
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Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence. - Erich Fromm
Posts: 16883 | From: East Coast, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Hiro's Leap
Shipmate
# 12470
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Posted
HangarQueen: Obama has said he'll close Guantanamo instantly, not sure about the rest of them.
[ 18. March 2008, 23:54: Message edited by: Hiro's Leap ]
Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
too many people perceive this as an abdication of responsibility in cleaning up the mess we made
People care about this? A lot of them? Honestly, it would be nice if this were actually true, but I have a hard time believing this.
Maybe not right now but I imagine McCain will make the point a key element in his criticism of Obama, and it's not without merit.
I wrote a long time ago that if Obama isn't elected it will be because he's too far left for a country which is essentially split down the middle politically and Iraq and Gitmo arguably support my point. But damned if I know; only time will tell and heaven knows we could do worse than Obama.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
I wrote a long time ago that if Obama isn't elected it will be because he's too far left for a country which is essentially split down the middle politically and Iraq and Gitmo arguably support my point. But damned if I know; only time will tell and heaven knows we could do worse than Obama.
And have. Very recently. And repeatedly.
God, I hope it doesn't come down to Hilary and McCain. Please, Lord. Please.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Phos Hilaron
Shipmate
# 6914
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
HangarQueen: Obama has said he'll close Guantanamo instantly, not sure about the rest of them.
I knew I liked the guy for a reason ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Gaero?.......Gaero!
Posts: 1684 | From: Choson | Registered: May 2004
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Hiro's Leap
Shipmate
# 12470
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Posted
To be fair, McCain's always been pretty good on opposing torture, and Google tells me Hillary's been calling for Guantanamo to close for a long while.
Posts: 3418 | From: UK, OK | Registered: Mar 2007
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
Maybe not right now but I imagine McCain will make the point a key element in his criticism of Obama, and it's not without merit.
Depends on how the war goes, though, doesn't it? I believe McCain himself has acknowledged that if Iraq takes a turn for the worse, then his chances will be significantly hurt.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laura:
Just heard the speech. It was ... good. Really good. Just .... really good. The sort of thing we haven't heard in ages.
Yes. When I first clicked on the link and saw that it was 39 minutes, I figured there was no way on earth I would watch the whole thing, since for the past two or three decades I generally lose patience with politicians pontificating after five or ten minutes max. (With the Bush and the Shrub my tolerance maxed out at about ten seconds. *shudder*)
At that particular time of day I didn't have that big a chunk of time anyway, so I listened to a couple of minutes, figuring I would have my usual reaction and blow it off. Instead I paused it.
I just finished watching the entire thing and I'm sold. Picky details of policy aside, what this country needs to recover from the Bush/Clinton/Bush era is a calm and eloquent voice combined with the willingness to point out the realities and the sometimes ugly truths about where we actually are. It's that basic therapy/AA/human nature thing: you can't fix it until you acknowledge it.
In an ideal world, Obama gets elected, (which makes him the official spokesperson and agenda-setter and diplomat) and Hillary and Bill throw their considerable intelligence and connections and ability to work the system whole-heartedly behind him. Colin Powell would be lured out of retirement (or wherever he is) to help with the military interface with the White House.
And Obama's current speech-writers get offices int the West Wing.
But his teleprompter people get replaced. There were way too many places in that speech where a tiny splatter of applause left Barak staring at a prompter and way too obviously willing it to "move, goddamnit, move! I need to talk!".
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
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the Pookah
Shipmate
# 9186
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Posted
Heard the speech, he's a fabulous speaker. And it's good to discuss race in America and black anger (I knew and know about it).
But,I think to the Indpendent white voter and Latinos and other ethnic groups, Obama will come across as a guy who talks about bridging the racial divide but is strongly invested in black anger and rage for black votes. They can't trust him.
I think it will be Hillary and McCain. But I could be wrong. But this is my take from Libertarian/Independent land.
the Pookah
Posts: 926 | From: the Northern colonies | Registered: Mar 2005
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Living in Gin
Liturgical Pyromaniac
# 2572
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
And Obama's current speech-writers get offices int the West Wing.
Obama wrote the speech himself, and was apparently up until 3 AM the night before, putting the finishing touches on it.
This speech was like a huge slab of prime rib after being served nothing but McDonald's for 30 years. My hope is that the people, now having tasted a bit of the real deal, will find themselves hungry for more.
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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.
Posts: 1893 | From: Cincinnati, USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the Pookah:
...Obama will come across as a guy who talks about bridging the racial divide but is strongly invested in black anger and rage for black votes...this is my take from Libertarian/Independent land.
Sorry, Pookah, but it sounds like the take from Right Wing/Conservative land. Better check to see your credentials haven't expired.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the Pookah:
But this is my take from Libertarian/Independent land.
the Pookah
maybe right-leaning Libertarian land. How more consensus-building could the man have been??
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
This speech was like a huge slab of prime rib after being served nothing but McDonald's for 30 years...
What is endearing, after so many years of pablum, is to be spoken to as even semi-literate adults. Kudos for not abandoning his 20-yr. ties with the pastor for political expediency. Five Gold Stars for acknowledging the black experience without sacrificing his concern for all disenfranchised Americans. Great Spaghetti Monster, keep and protect this man.
Two more big speeches in the next two days. Stay tuned.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
It took me two goes, but I listened to it all. I too was pleasantly surprised to learn he wrote it himself.
From Living in Gin's link:
quote:
It is possible that we will have a President who not only will speak in full, complete sentences, but who will do so in a manner that is eloquent, and who will also be articulate and eloquent in delivering words he is intelligent enough to know, understand, and use in a speech he is capable of writing himself.
My question is, sadly, whether these qualities are what it takes to survive in the political arena and effect change.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Zwingli
Shipmate
# 4438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
quote:
Originally posted by the Pookah:
...Obama will come across as a guy who talks about bridging the racial divide but is strongly invested in black anger and rage for black votes...this is my take from Libertarian/Independent land.
Sorry, Pookah, but it sounds like the take from Right Wing/Conservative land. Better check to see your credentials haven't expired.
Pookah, I have to agree with Gort. My Right leaning Libertarian credentials are reasonably solid, and I just can't see how Obama is "invested in black anger and rage for black votes." He seems genuinely committed to healing racial divisions in America. That said, I still don't see enough of what he would actually do as President.
Living in Gin:
quote:
This speech was like a huge slab of prime rib after being served nothing but McDonald's for 30 years.
No, the speech was like a tiny, tasty entree after living on Big Macs for 30 years. Good as far as it goes, and you wait eagerly for the main course, but more in hope than in expectation.
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Mad Geo
Ship's navel gazer
# 2939
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zwingli:
I still don't see enough of what he would actually do as President.
Preach it!
Will the Obama with a position please stand up, please stand up. I'd like to know why I am actually voting against him.
More seriously, if he doesn't take some positions up, I'm going to assume he's a raging pinko liberal from hell. I really don't want to vote for McCain, but I swear to Buddha I will if he doesn't state his positions real darn clearly.
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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"
Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
You can't affect squat in the political arena without the emotional support of your constituency.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681
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Posted
Wow,
I never thought I would listen to an American politicians speech, voluntarily, the whole way through and end it with tears in my eyes.
Sheesh, I'm a kiwi for goodness sake.
I think it was the sincerity and intelligence that did it, I am not used to listening to a politician and not feeling like I am having my chain yanked. Thats here in NZ as well.
Wish I could vote for him.
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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious
Posts: 2679 | From: Under Downunder | Registered: Mar 2004
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
WOW....just how the heck does Clinton respond to that?
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
You can't affect squat in the political arena without the emotional support of your constituency.
Sure. But is that enough?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Mad Geo and Zwingli (and anyone else): if you really want to know what Obama would do, see his website.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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