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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460

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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Alan Keyes or Newt Gingrinch to the rescue?

My cheese-befuddled brain mis-spoke that as "Alicia Keys to the rescue".

Which might not be a bad idea come to think of it. She's prettier than Obama, more left-wing than Clinton, and probably a lot healthier than McCain. And she sings better than any of them. (She also talks more sense than Bush, but so do most people)

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
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Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey (a super-delegate) has endorsed Obama today. This should help boost his support there as Casey is reportedly popular amongst blue collar workers in Pennsylvania. Clinton has been counting on the working class vote to maintain her lead going into the primary.
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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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There's an interesting opinion piece by David Brooks in today's NY Times about McCain's take on foreign policy. I'm going to have to dig up McCain's speech from Wednesday; I'd like to see if it really is "as personal, nuanced and ambitious a speech as any made by a presidential candidate this year."
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513

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McCain said that support for Al Quaeda is coming out of Iran, Liebermann denied it, and it's hard to prove a negative. While I haven't done any systematic, purposeful research on this question, I did read some small print in a newspaper to the effect that McCain was correct, despite the fact that Al Quaeda is Sunni and most Iranians are Shi'ite. To preclude the possibility solely on the basis of that fact is to indulge in very shaky a priori reasoning from the premises re an issue in which the truth depends on observation, not reasoning.

Let's not so exaggerate our popularity as to trust them always to put hatred of one another above hatred of us. Mightn't they see eye-to-eye and co-operate when it comes to going after the Great Satan? Stranger things have been seen, such as Roman Catholics hand in hand with Southern Baptists in front of abortion clinics.

Isn't it possible that McCain knows something Liebermann doesn't and is therefore more of a pragmatist and less of an ideologue?

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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.

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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959

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quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Isn't it possible that McCain knows something Liebermann doesn't and is therefore more of a pragmatist and less of an ideologue?

No. McCain was willing to be corrected because he had misspoken. If GW could cobble up any kind of lie that anyone would buy, he and Cheney would be spreading the lie. They actually tried to do exactly that when they were tryig to whip up war fervor against Iran earlier. But they have lied so often and been caught out in their lies so regularly and persisted in their lies even after they were widely recognized to be lies that they can't convince even their own supporters of what they say.

If you want to believe that, despite denials from all quarters, Iran is training Al Qaeda, feel free. But you are off in the deep weeds on this one.

--Tom Clune

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Dee.
Ship's Theological Acrobat
# 5681

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quote:


{Packs bags for NZ.}

If they did take the presidency, NZ would probably step up its tourism advertising here. SF is generally very liberal and against this administration; so during some of the worst times in the last 7 years, NZ has given us very targeted ads, along the lines of "you want to leave the country?"
[Smile] [/QB]

Well come on down,

There is a spare room at my place!

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Jesus - nice bloke, bit religious

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Orb

Eye eye Cap'n!
# 3256

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My my, what a fool I made of myself on page 33 of this thread... [Hot and Hormonal] apologies for my ignorance on the issue...

Still, the broader question remains...how old is too old? Should there be a too old?

[I went for the blunt, quick "fact" to stir debate, not to get mathematical on everyone's ass. A shame my fact wasn't very factual...eh, Hillary?]

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“You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.” Ursula K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed

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Zwingli
Shipmate
# 4438

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Orb - in my opinion, far too much is made of the person of the President. It is too easy to think that good presidents are indispensable and bad ones single-handedly destroying the country. Forced transfer from one president to another is probably much less traumatic, and less disruptive to the legislative process and functioning of the Executive, than is generally supposed. Therefore, if McCain is the best person for the job, he should be elected, though special attention should be paid to his selection of VP. I don't think he is the best person for the job, and at this stage I'm hoping Obama wins the nomination and the Presidency, though I might support McCain over Clinton.
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Orb

Eye eye Cap'n!
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Yes, far too much IS made of the person of President.

But then that's no good reason to elect one who might croak it during tenure. It's simple common sense.

The USA shouldn't be taking after the Vatican in its policy on leadership, surely!

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“You cannot buy the revolution. You cannot make the revolution. You can only be the revolution. It is in your spirit, or it is nowhere.” Ursula K. Le Guin, The Dispossessed

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Zwingli
Shipmate
# 4438

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Given who the US has previously elected as President, I would rather hope that most of them had croaked it while - or even better, before - they were in office.
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IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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John Hagee says he's not anti-Catholic. Is it a sort of answer to the Obama speech, i.e., the McCain camp leaning on Hagee to clean up its own religious fault lines, or is this genuine?

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Orb:
Golden Key - I think it's just the fact she can't realistically/mathematically win it without superdelegates going her way now. I'm all for democracy - and giving more people their say in the remaining primaries - but other candidates withdrew when they realised they just didn't have the support...so why shouldn't she?

Possibly because she has much more support than they did?


quote:
It is mainly the not liking her thing for me, though. I'm fed up of seeing her pathetic attempts to win over the electorate. The flimsy response to Obama's groundbreaking speech was the last straw. [I say this, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to get another five or six "last straws" before August...]
Would you feel that way if the situation were different? If Obama were the one being asked to quit?

I'm not a huge fan of any of the candidates; but they should be allowed to run a full campaign. We also have a chance to break glass ceilings--yet another reason to make sure everything's done cleanly and fairly. I can guess the accusations the country would make (rightly) if Obama were forced out. There are lots of people who don't think a woman should be president...so forcing Hillary out would at least look to have the same sort of motive as forcing Obama out--and might really have the same motive.

Let 'em both run, and let the convention sort them out!

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
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FWIW, I have been reading The Hindu since my arrival. In January, it was going full out supporting Clinton, now at the end of March the editors support Obama. Clinton only receives negative coverage, most recently her insistence that she came under sniper fire.

I know that overseas or foreign support means little in a US election - so to that extent, I don't care who wins - if foreign opinion meant anything, your current president would have lost the last two elections.

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Even more so than I was before

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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959

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quote:
Originally posted by PeteCanada:
I know that overseas or foreign support means little in a US election - so to that extent, I don't care who wins - if foreign opinion meant anything, your current president would have lost the last two elections.

If it's any consolation, GW wouldn't be POTUS if domestic opinion meant anything, either...

--Tom Clune

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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...or if we'd had free, fair, honest elections, accurately counted...without the Supremes stepping in.

[brick wall] [Tear] [Votive]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
...or if we'd had free, fair, honest elections, accurately counted...without the Supremes stepping in.

[brick wall] [Tear] [Votive]

personally I would prefer to have Diana Ross (of the Real Supremes) decide on our elections rather then Mr Scalia

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335

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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
John Hagee says he's not anti-Catholic.

oh how pathetic! I housed some nuns, so of course I can't be anti-Catholic.

[Projectile]

[fixed broken scroll lock]

[ 03. April 2008, 19:21: Message edited by: Jason I. Am ]

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
# 95

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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
John Hagee says he's not anti-Catholic. Is it a sort of answer to the Obama speech, i.e., the McCain camp leaning on Hagee to clean up its own religious fault lines, or is this genuine?

Even if the McCain camp is leaning on Hagee to clean up his act in response to Obama, that's a step forward IMO; I haven't seen a lot of leaning-on in recent years, for some pretty kooky stuff.

(And, yes, I would suspect that Hagee has been leaned on.)

Charlotte

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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

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Mr. Hagee claims that he is not anti-Catholic. He is simply giving his congregation some hisoory lessons:

1. The Catholic Church almost from its beginnning has taught anti-Semitism.

2. The Crusades were launched to kill Jews (and some Muslims for good measure) and was an act of imperialism by the Church of Rome.

3. A major goal of the Inquisition was to kill Jews and confiscate their property.

4. The Catholic Church tutored Hitler in anti-Semitism and then stood back in apparent approval as he conducted the holocaust.

Mr. Hagee cannot understand why he is considered anti-Catholic. In his "clarification", I did not hear a single positive word about the Catholic Church although he was quick to point out that in Christian love, he is quite willlig to give individual Catholics soup and a sermon.

Greta

[ 30. March 2008, 06:30: Message edited by: CorgiGreta ]

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Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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Hillary just pulled out of the presidential race!

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

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moron
Shipmate
# 206

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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Hillary just pulled out of the presidential race!

Yeah, but has Bill pulled out yet?


(I admit it, MG: you got me for a nanosecond. [Hot and Hormonal]

Dammit.)

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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267

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quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
John Hagee says he's not anti-Catholic.

oh how pathetic! I housed some nuns, so of course I can't be anti-Catholic.

[Projectile]

Aw, that's like saying because I have a black friend, I'm not a racist.

[fixed broken scroll lock, a problem even in fixed width]

[ 03. April 2008, 19:19: Message edited by: Jason I. Am ]

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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account

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Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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quote:
Originally posted by 206:
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Hillary just pulled out of the presidential race!

Yeah, but has Bill pulled out yet?

(I admit it, MG: you got me for a nanosecond. [Hot and Hormonal]

Dammit.)

[Snigger]

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

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moron
Shipmate
# 206

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Just how down for the fight is Jeremiah Wright?

I bet Obama is not happy about this.

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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Jeremiah Wright is old news and fading fast. The only media moguls still harping on the issue are Fox News and they intersperse Wright coverage with breaking Britney Spears updates. I am sustaining what little faith I have in the american electorate in hope they will vote their reason over fearful emotion this time, please, Lord.

Soooo... as many of you political junkies have no doubt noted, Dem bigwigs have been weighing in lately on whether or not Hillary Clinton should bow-out for the good of the party. It seems they must have read my 'open letter' to Hillary 11 days ago. It's truly amazing the power of the written word on Ship of Fools. Who would have guessed that this humble shipmate could have such a profound influence on national politics?

It seems the Democratic Party mistakenly took their cue, when setting the date for the nominating convention in August 2008, from the Republicans who set their convention late in the last presidential election. Somehow the Dem numbskulls connected Bush's successful re-election with the date of the 2004 Republican primary... nevermind that he was not seriously opposed then.

Now the Dems are looking at 5 months of bickering and backbiting between their two leading nominees if Hillary holds to her promise of 'fighting it out' to the convention, while McCain goes about on foreign junkets looking presidential. I predict that the Penn primary in three weeks will end this competition. Obama is closing on Clinton's lead there with recent polls showing a 5% separation, in spite of his 'gutter-balls' during campaign bowling exhibitions.

Many of the super-delegates are holding out on support for either candidate till June when all state's primaries will be finished. Howard Dean (DNC Chairman) is asking for commitment by June 1. The general consensus is that a unified party must be in place before the convention and I agree. This summer should be a focused debate between the Dem nominee and McCain and not an endless distracting discussion over former pastors and grandiose stories of 'duck and cover' in Bosnia.

More on the effort to make Clinton concede early.

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moron
Shipmate
# 206

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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
I predict that the Penn primary in three weeks will end this competition.

I bet you a beer she takes it to Denver.

A seasoned campaigner like Hillary hopes against hope for another Dean Scream moment and as good a talker as he is, Obama has gotten close to the edge a time or two, most recently with his punished with a baby comment.

Warts and all she's a vetted entity and he isn't; for all anyone knows his longtime involvement in Chicago politics might yet reveal some shady stuff and presumably both the media and the Clinton campaign are digging for dirt.

Plus, Bill reminded us the other day Clintons aren't 'big on quitting'.

quote:
The campaign used calls for her to quit the presidential race as a fundraising tool. Over the weekend, Bill Clinton e-mailed supporters under the subject line: "Not big on quitting."

"With all the talk of the state of the race, all the people telling her she should just give up, you and I must make sure she has everything she needs to stay in this race," the former president wrote in the email, soliciting a donation of $5 or more before the March fundraising deadline.

The former president has charged that Obama's supporters want to end the race and stifle voters because his wife has the late momentum.

"I know Hillary's gaining on them when they say, 'Oh, let's shut this down now; we don't want to be divided," Clinton said in West Virginia last month. "Let's just disenfranchise several of the million people who could vote."

"Don't you think that your vote should count as much as the people who voted in Iowa first?" he asked. "Yeah, well so does Hillary."


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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335

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quote:
Originally posted by 206:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
I predict that the Penn primary in three weeks will end this competition.

she's a vetted entity and he isn't;

"

[/QUOTE]


Warning: Those words are part and parcel of the Hillary propaganda campaign!

[Projectile]

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959

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quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
quote:
Originally posted by 206:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
I predict that the Penn primary in three weeks will end this competition.

she's a vetted entity and he isn't;

"




Warning: Those words are part and parcel of the Hillary propaganda campaign!

[Projectile]

I find this an odd sort of "virtue" too. The fact that Hillary is universally despised for the ceaseless sleeze that is the Clintons becomes a political plus -- Obama may have once done something undesireable. It could be disruptive to the campaign if people were to discover such a thing. Better to stick with someone who could not possibly be more distrusted or more reviled.

It reminds me of the old Holiday Inn ad campaign, "The best surprise is no surprise." If you have no virtue, make a virtue of not having any virtue.

--Tom Clune

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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

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This is interesting:

Obama Wants Gore on his Team

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Both candidates want Gore's endorsement so bad they can taste it, I'm sure.

I don't think it'll work out this way in the end, but one poll has Obama ahead in Pennsylvania. If he's even close, it'll strengthen the argument that Clinton needs to wake up and smell the defeat. Maybe we'll get lucky and Bill will have a few more meltdowns.

[ 02. April 2008, 23:50: Message edited by: RuthW ]

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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Gaah! Howard Dean says hotel rooms have been reserved for Florida delegates in Denver. He's "committed" to seating them at the convention. What ever happened to rules and regulations? Shall we expect the state conventions to continually leap-frog each other for primary dates in some misguided effort to look more significant?

I'm beginning to think the Democratic Party is a pack of rabid monkeys flinging feces at each other while shrieking for attention.

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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335

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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Gaah! Howard Dean says hotel rooms

I'm beginning to think the Democratic Party is a pack of rabid monkeys flinging feces at each other while shrieking for attention.

ever seen footage of Chicago 1968?? Perfect description. Sort of like the old Labour Conferences. They were exciting though!

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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Yes... have seen the footage. I was truncheoned by Seattle's Finest during a protest rally at the Federal Courthouse in support of The Chicago Seven. I was just back from Viet Nam, too young to vote and Nixon won the election.

Do I feel a sense of foreboding? Nah.

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Campbellite

Ut unum sint
# 1202

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Thinks back to 1968

Wasn't that the election in which the leading Democratic candidate was assasinated? [Votive]

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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?

Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timothy the Obscure

Mostly Friendly
# 292

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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Yes... have seen the footage. I was truncheoned by Seattle's Finest during a protest rally at the Federal Courthouse in support of The Chicago Seven. I was just back from Viet Nam, too young to vote and Nixon won the election.

Do I feel a sense of foreboding? Nah.

Nixon wasn't promising to stay in Vietnam for 100 years if that's what it took to win (he had a "secret plan," remember?) I still say advantage Democrats, but it'll be close when it should have been a landslide.

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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
Thinks back to 1968

Wasn't that the election in which the leading Democratic candidate was assassinated? [Votive]

Yes. This question haunts me daily. Please, Lord, not again. Protect and advise Barack Obama.
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moron
Shipmate
# 206

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quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
Warning: Those words are part and parcel of the Hillary propaganda campaign!

[Projectile]

It may be propaganda but it's very difficult to refute based on the evidence: she's been scrutinized six ways to Sunday for at least 16 years, from well before Obama even began his career in politics. The odds of any new negative revelation on her are comparatively miniscule and there is something to be said for virtually guaranteeing no surprises.

It looks to me like McCain has a chance of turning into at least a respectable candidate and I'm not convinced Obama is any more likely than Clinton to defeat him. It remains my opinion that Clinton has more experience and for all his fine oratory, Obama doesn't stack up well to McCain in that regard.


One of the fascinating things about this race is watching people who are educated and informed and rightfully typically skeptical of politicians seemingly throw caution to the wind supporting Obama who remains largely unproven: it may be he'll live up to all the expectations but ISTM the jury is still quite some ways out.

I greatly underestimated the degree of 'Clinton fatigue'.

Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Beautiful Dreamer
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# 10880

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I agree that a lot still remains to be seen, but the murmurs I have heard from different people say that McCain seems respectable, but that electing him (or any other Republican) might just be bringing in another four to eight years of the same thing that we have in Bush. And if someone doesn't like that, the perception of another one of 'those' in office doesn't look good. I don't know if that prediction is true, but I can see where the impression would come from. Obama talks about change and, to some people, pretty much anything would be better than what we have now.

I am not really speaking for myself; I am impressed with Obama, but I wouldn't be devastated or leave the country if any of the running three got elected. But I am repeating what I have heard in several different circles.

[ 03. April 2008, 14:28: Message edited by: Sha_Sha ]

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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

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Living in Gin

Liturgical Pyromaniac
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quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
It may be propaganda but it's very difficult to refute based on the evidence: she's been scrutinized six ways to Sunday for at least 16 years, from well before Obama even began his career in politics.

As noted by some newspaper columnist (I forget who offhand) a few weeks ago: The point isn't to have been vetted. The point is to have been vetted and found clean. Obama's Rezko and Rev. Wright issues are small potatoes compared to the nonstop series of ethical scandals that have been the hallmark of Bill and Hillary's careers.

quote:
The odds of any new negative revelation on her are comparatively miniscule and there is something to be said for virtually guaranteeing no surprises.
Really? Hardly a week goes by without Hillary being caught in some sort of lie, gaffe, scandal or conflict of interest... And we still haven't seen her tax returns or the donor list for the Clinton library. But I guess you're right in the sense that there's never anything really surprising about the Clinton's ethical lapses.

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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
The point isn't to have been vetted. The point is to have been vetted and found clean.

I get the concept. My point is Obama hasn't been vetted to the degree Clinton has and I believe that's one of her rationales for staying in the race.
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Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
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quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
...My point is Obama hasn't been vetted to the degree Clinton has...

...and you know this how? Are you convinced there are no junior investigative reporters out there falling over each other to break the story bringing Obama's campaign down? No slimeball muckrakers seeking to establish their careers as the new Woodward with a story of tapdancing in restroom stalls?

The reason Obama appears to have not been "vetted" (isn't that what they do to dogs and horses?) to the same extent Hillary has experienced is not from a lack of inspection. It's simply the fact he has less history to work with. She is 60 years old and Team Clinton have been advancing their mutual careers and seedy financial deals since they married in 1975. Obama was born in '61.

All politicians are crooks in the public eye and all are sinners. Obama just needs more time to establish justification for a grand jury inquest. With all the clamoring college-aged groupies out there, it may be only a matter of time till we have an Obama version of the stained Blue Dress. Then you will have a nice relevant political hook to hang your Republican hat on.

Meanwhile, Rome burns.

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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
Thinks back to 1968

Wasn't that the election in which the leading Democratic candidate was assassinated? [Votive]

Yes. This question haunts me daily. Please, Lord, not again. Protect and advise Barack Obama.
Yes, I worry about that, too--for both Barack and Hillary. Not to mention the country. My memories of '68 are basically Bad Things and Riots.

[Votive]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Dee.:
quote:


{Packs bags for NZ.}

If they did take the presidency, NZ would probably step up its tourism advertising here. SF is generally very liberal and against this administration; so during some of the worst times in the last 7 years, NZ has given us very targeted ads, along the lines of "you want to leave the country?"
[Smile]

Well come on down,

There is a spare room at my place!

(Packs hostess gifts of SF sourdough bread, various California beverages and cheeses, and lots of Ghirardelli chocolate.)

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Then you will have a nice relevant political hook to hang your Republican hat on.

Meanwhile, Rome burns.

So Obama is the one man who can put out the fire? Hope springs eternal.

And Republican hat? Maybe your confusion about my political affiliation, or lack thereof, is behind your animosity.

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Living in Gin

Liturgical Pyromaniac
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Obama may or may not be the one to put out the fire. But unlike Hillary or the Republicans, he hasn't spent the bulk of his career as a political arsonist. That's reason enough to hope.

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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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Obama is the only politician I've ever actually prayed for. When we pray for the president and Congress etc in church, I'm really always just praying for them not to fuck up. But with Obama I'm praying for him to not fuck up, to not get killed, and to win.
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Golden Key
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quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
Obama may or may not be the one to put out the fire. But unlike Hillary or the Republicans, he hasn't spent the bulk of his career as a political arsonist. That's reason enough to hope.

...except he hasn't had much of a career yet, which is my main problem with him.

When he first came to my notice a couple of years ago, I thought he was very poised and charismatic, and said some good things--and that he might run for president some day. But I also distrusted the fact that he's come so far so fast. From my observation, it seems very unlikely (if not impossible) for someone to reach Congress or higher with clean hands.

I don't want to tear him down. With more experience, he quite possibly could be a very good president. But we don't know what's he's like in the long haul, because he hasn't been around very long.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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tclune
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
... But I also distrusted the fact that he's come so far so fast. From my observation, it seems very unlikely (if not impossible) for someone to reach Congress or higher with clean hands.

I don't want to tear him down. With more experience, he quite possibly could be a very good president. But we don't know what's he's like in the long haul, because he hasn't been around very long.

I understand your concerns. But one of the things that I find encouraging is how he has been able to finance his campaign -- it is a grass-roots effort. Just about everybody who runs for national office has sold his/her soul to special interests in order to finance their campaign.

Obama is actually being financed by folks who are giving small enough sums of money that they don't have anything owed them but good governance. It ain't public financing of the election, but it's the closest we've come since the Republican revolution upped the ante so much in cost of campaigns...

--Tom Clune

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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Philadelphia, Clinton, Rocky?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I don't want to tear him down. With more experience, he quite possibly could be a very good president. But we don't know what's he's like in the long haul, because he hasn't been around very long.

Exactly, and you can wager McCain is going to be playing up the experience disparity between him and Obama.

People can disparage McCain all they want but if the electorate considers only political experience/public service (not that they should or will) Obama is at a significant disadvantage.

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