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Originally posted by Choirboy:
We haven't been a largely rural country for some time. The 2000 census estimates put about 70% of the country in either center city or urban areas. However, the rural vote is magnified somewhat in presidential elections due the electoral college system, since there are some states whose populations are more rural than others and each state gets electoral votes based on the sum of the number of senators and representatives in Congress.

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Originally Posted by mjg:
I keep thinking about this: ISTM part of Obama's miscue is his ignorance of what those 'small town' people want. Many of those types have little or no use for those who apparently truly believe some administration can 'regenerate' them. They'd rather be left alone.

It could be no small error in this comparatively largely rural country.

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Anyway, my point was there remain a lot of people here who don't think Kennedy or Johnson or Nixon or Ford or Carter or Reagan or Bush or Clinton or Bush or Clinton or Obama or McCain working as best they can can significantly impact global trends and they remain skeptical of those who pander to those who think they can.

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"You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them," Obama said. "And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Someone who was there puts Obama's remarks in context on the Huffington Post (I know, I know, I gotta broaden my reading horizons).

I've never been to Pennsylvania, but it sounds to me like he simply spoke a few uncomfortable truths that might not be all that politic but which certainly don't deserve the bullshit treatment Clinton is giving them.

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Someone who was there puts Obama's remarks in context on the Huffington Post (I know, I know, I gotta broaden my reading horizons).

I've never been to Pennsylvania, but it sounds to me like he simply spoke a few uncomfortable truths that might not be all that politic but which certainly don't deserve the bullshit treatment Clinton is giving them.

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Even more disgustingly on the part of Hillary, was her playing up her "Pennsylvania roots" including mentioning that her father was buried in PA and that "I must stop there" HOw shameless to even bring that into one's political ambition.


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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Originally posted by IconiumBound:
There was an interesting forum on CNN last night in which both Clinton and Obama answered many questions about their faith and its influence on their thinking. Any comments from shipmates?

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It was interesting to see evangelicals talking against Bush on torture and about the environment (It is always good to see Jim Wallace) Obama did not say anything that really surprised me. It was standard liberal Protestantism which is fine in it's way but MUCH better then the GOP alternative of course.

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Originally posted by IconiumBound:
There was an interesting forum on CNN last night in which both Clinton and Obama answered many questions about their faith and its influence on their thinking. Any comments from shipmates?

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Well, I could be glib and say we'll find out, but I -- I don't presume anything about God. I believe, you know, Abraham Lincoln was right in admonishing us not to act as though we knew God was on our side. In fact, our mission should be on God's side. And I have tried to take my beliefs, my faith and put it to work my entire life. And it has been gratifying to do the little I've done to try to help other people, which is really what motivates me. That's why I get up in the morning and see whether there's an individual I can help or a problem I can solve.

And I wouldn't presume to even imagine that God is going to tell me what I should do. I think that he has given me enough guidance, you know, through how I have been raised and how I have been, thankfully, given access to the Bible over so many years, commentary and the like.

So I just get up and try to do the best I can. And I think that I see through a glass darkly. I don't believe that any of us know it all and can with any confidence say that we are going to, you know, be doing God's will unless, you know, we are just out there doing our very best, hoping that we make a difference in people's lives.

And that's what I am trying to do in this campaign. That's what I would try to do as President.

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Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Someone who was there puts Obama's remarks in context on the Huffington Post (I know, I know, I gotta broaden my reading horizons).

I've never been to Pennsylvania, but it sounds to me like he simply spoke a few uncomfortable truths that might not be all that politic but which certainly don't deserve the bullshit treatment Clinton is giving them.

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Even more disgustingly on the part of Hillary, was her playing up her "Pennsylvania roots" including mentioning that her father was buried in PA and that "I must stop there" HOw shameless to even bring that into one's political ambition.

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"I don't think he really gets it that people are looking for a president who stands up for you and not looks down on you.

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Oh, you poor steel workers! You just don't get affirmed enough!

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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.

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Originally posted by Gort:
The government doesn't care, God still does. I'm unemployed, it's the fault of those illegal immigrants. The country is going to hell in a handbasket but I'll still have my rifle when the shit hits the fan. Who can deny there are many Americans thinking this way? It's an embarrassing truth but Obama isn't speaking down to them. He's possibly trying to awaken those who have given up hope to the fact there's a new sheriff in town who actually gives a damn for their condition.

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Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
And Hillary's attempts to turn herself into a blue collar type are nothing but facetious (ma uncle taught me to shoot in PA... ).

Meanwhile, Hillary still panders and tries to pull a "just folks" act that is so threadbare it's a wonder she can keep a straight face.

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Maybe she understudied with "W".

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originally posted by Gort:
The government doesn't care, God still does. I'm unemployed, it's the fault of those illegal immigrants. The country is going to hell in a handbasket but I'll still have my rifle when the shit hits the fan. Who can deny there are many Americans thinking this way? It's an embarrassing truth but Obama isn't speaking down to them. He's possibly trying to awaken those who have given up hope to the fact there's a new sheriff in town who actually gives a damn for their condition.

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Originally posted by Zwingli:

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Originally posted by tclune:

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Originally posted by Zwingli:
I came across a comment about a speech on financial regulation by Obama that I thought worth repeating:

"Obama’s speeches frequently include passages that flatter their listeners who aren’t quite intelligent enough to realize how shallow his thinking actually is into thinking that they are more intelligent than they are."

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The amazing thing is that you were able to read that quote without applying it to the quote itself.

--Tom Clune

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Would you care to drop the attempts at insults? Read the link - he explains exactly why Obama's speech on financial regulation was misinformed and not actually that clever, and why other people (who also don't understand financial regulation) might think that they were awfully clever for supporting that articulate man Obama. And yes, I really did understand the blog post on financial regulation, you arrogant prick, thanks for insinuating otherwise.

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Originally posted by Matins:
... Very few gun owners actually have guns expecting to use them in some coming revolution. They want them for hunting, target shooting, collecting, and personal defense. Guns have nothing to do with bitterness. Obama makes a big issue of explaining their love of guns to an audience equally committed to gun control.

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You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.

And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

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Originally posted by Matins:
...There is not a political party that represents the interests of the working and lower middle class in the United States. Obama was right about that. However, there is nothing to suggest to me that President Obama would do any better than anybody else. The above mentioned groups are not really part of his base.

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Okay, folks, just under a week till the PA primary. Time for some new predictions! I'm going to say Clinton will win by 10%.

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Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
I grew up in Western Maryland, which culturally and geographically isn't too far from the part of PA I think Obama is describing, and I think he's being reasonably accurate in his assessment.

While I do love the area and hte people, it is economically depressed and has been for the last 20 years.

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I take it most politicians have taken to wearing a US flag pin recently?

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I take it most politicians have taken to wearing a US flag pin recently?

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Originally posted by Comper's Child:
Flag pins?! Who the hell cares about flag pins?

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I had a thought about the flag pin. I think if they are going to wear it, they have to do the military thing and put it on with no backing and let 10 soldiers pound it in. If they can take that, they can wear it.

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Okay, folks, just under a week till the PA primary. Time for some new predictions! I'm going to say Clinton will win by 10%.

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Originally posted by Mad Geo:

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Originally posted by Comper's Child:
Flag pins?! Who the hell cares about flag pins?

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Preach. It.

Could there be any stronger indicator of how useles the mainstream media has gotten, in many ways? Judas they need to get some real tough questions in there.

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Originally posted by Mad Geo:
I had a thought about the flag pin. I think if they are going to wear it, they have to do the military thing and put it on with no backing and let 10 soldiers pound it in. If they can take that, they can wear it.

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