|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
|
Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Fox News goes with Wright 24-7.
I don't get Fox but I have to ask: how do you know this?
Probably more to the point, is everything Fox reports inherently flawed? I thought the transcript of the Chris Wallace interview revealed at least a half decent effort on his part.
I get reports from some coworkers who are political junkies (and watch all the networks). They're mostly the libertarian sort, so have plenty of criticism for everyone.
It may be that something of quality occasionally escapes from Fox News. But at least 95% of their 'coverage' is just Karl Rove style partisanship. Oh, look who they just hired for their 'fair and balanced' staff. Hah.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
And if Obama is not the nominee, I will blame Wright and will quite honestly hope he has to answer to God for throwing Obama under the bus so he can have his 15 minutes of fame-whoring.
Amen to that, RuthW.
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
[ If the author's premise is correct, then Wright is a saint. [/QB]
Thanks for the link to the Daily Kos piece, LiG. Interesting, and I'm almost persuaded. I'm easily as persuaded by this analysis as any other attempt to explain Wright's motivations. He isn't stupid, and it's hard to really see what he honestly had to gain by his performances, book tour aside. I've said that he's come out to claim his 15 minutes, but the charge of narcisissm doesn't really ring true, and everyone who claims to know the man seems to dispute it. It makes sense that the performances are strategic in a Brer Rabbit sort of way. However, the strategy may not work in a reality TV world. I hope it does, and this goes away, whether it was intentional and saintly on Wright's part or not. If nothing else, perhaps it's finally convincing people that Obama is Christian, not Muslim. A lot in this campaign has made me squirm, but nothing like Obama and religion. Well, maybe Hillary's tears in New Hampshire, but that seems like years ago now.
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Including a Fox News poll in your quote completely negates any serious consideration of CBS News' opinion.
I missed this in my last post: CBS said it, not me. If I was feeling snarky I'd ask if you 'read for comprehension much?' but I'll pass.
I asked choirboy and I'll ask you: is anything Fox reports reliable? If not, how do you know that?
Or are you just showing your bias by denigrating anything they say?
It seems you are having trouble with comprehension. Did I say, "YOU said it"? I clearly denounced serious consideration of CBS News' opinion, which by quoting you give credence to.
No, nothing Fox reports is reliable. It's the Oprah Winfrey of Reality TV news shows. How do I know that? We hold these truths to be self-evident. I'm sorry, I didn't know you were a fan of The No Spin Zone. quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
I can only assume that by quoting a CBS News report you are in agreement with it.
That's an incorrect assumption: it was posted as FYI as to what a senior aide to Clinton is currently thinking and as a snapshot of where some things are now, hence the lack of comment from me. Gort, you ought to know by now I really don't have a horse in this race.
You will have to forgive me if your lack of comment implies a "horse in this race". It's generous of you to supply "FYI" links in a discussion you have no interest in, but you should consider that those who are involved may be capable of resourcing their own information. Quoting a CBS News link that includes a Fox News commentary and then divorcing yourself from personal interest is disingenuous at best.
--------------------
--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
moron
Shipmate
# 206
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
No, nothing Fox reports is reliable. It's the Oprah Winfrey of Reality TV news shows. How do I know that? We hold these truths to be self-evident.
This is the best you can do answering a legitimate question about the veracity of a news organization you incessantly disparage?
I note you hold others to a higher standard.
quote:
Quoting a CBS News link that includes a Fox News commentary and then divorcing yourself from personal interest is disingenuous at best.
So says Gort, one of the Self Appointed Arbiters Of Truth And Justice on the SoF. I further note you didn't bitch any of numerous previous times I posted other stories absent commentary.
Maybe this time your ox was gored? Maybe the bloom is off the rose of your messianic political candidate and your barely mitigated faith is being shaken a bit?
Lighten up, dude: Obama's a man running for president, not a harbinger of the Second Coming.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
moron
Shipmate
# 206
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Whatever you say. dood. I'm down wit it, man.
bout time you came round, bro
I can't help but think all the people we butt heads with here are probably extremely nice IRL, myself excluded. I'm an asshole there too.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
I'm very discouraged after hearing a news report on the radio this morning. The reporter was a very seasoned and respected political analyst for one of the Chicago news stations and he has spent a lot of time in Indiana this week. His observation was that the primary in Indiana has become totally about race and that Obama is seriously losing ground among white voters.
This sucks. There was so much hope, and it seems to be going to hell in a handbasket.
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
I'm very discouraged after hearing a news report on the radio this morning. The reporter was a very seasoned and respected political analyst for one of the Chicago news stations and he has spent a lot of time in Indiana this week. His observation was that the primary in Indiana has become totally about race and that Obama is seriously losing ground among white voters.
This sucks. There was so much hope, and it seems to be going to hell in a handbasket.
And the more I see of Hillary Clinton the less I like her.
--------------------
My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
Here's an interesting piece on why Obama (and his wing of the democratic party) has failed to get the blue collar vote.
Basically, the loudest proponents of liberalism tend to be elites who, while they may be right, have no sense of how to effectively communicate with anyone who isn't from their social class. George Orwell saw the same thing about 80 years ago. There's some sense in it, methinks.
[ 05. May 2008, 16:48: Message edited by: Bullfrog. ]
--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
And if you want a bright note, I wouldn't see Indiana going to Obama, for the same reasons Ohio and Pennsylvania didn't go to Obama. They're not his kind of people.
Also, they're very close to Illinois, and if there's one thing that makes me wary of Obama, it's that he's an Illinois politician. No matter how well he speaks, that's not exactly a sparkling endorsement. I think, as a rule of thumb, one doesn't succeed in Illinois by playing clean politics.
[ 05. May 2008, 16:53: Message edited by: Bullfrog. ]
--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
[And the more I see of Hillary Clinton the less I like her[/QB]
I read HRC's comment about not putting her lot in with economists not long after she appeared on George Stephanopoulos' show yesterday. Unbelievable. It doesn't take an economist to play out how ineffectual a gas tax holiday is likely to be. As this election goes on and on and on, all the candidates become less appealing, and I was never a fan of HRC, but somehow, this is a straw breaking the camel's back for me. It's so familiarly anti-intellectual, I'm just folks and I know what's good for folks, I'm going to show I care about the great American people by treating them like spoiled idiot children. I want my president to be smart and to listen to a range of smart people. Haven't we had enough of bread and circuses, especially when the circuses are so deadly?
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
Also, they're very close to Illinois, and if there's one thing that makes me wary of Obama, it's that he's an Illinois politician. No matter how well he speaks, that's not exactly a sparkling endorsement. I think, as a rule of thumb, one doesn't succeed in Illinois by playing clean politics.
NPR host Scott Simon has written a novel about Chicago politics. When he was interviewed about it on NPR, he mentioned that he thought Hillary could be a good alderwoman (like city councilperson, I think), but that Obama wouldn't. IIRC, this seemed to be on the basis of style, not ethics. FWIW.
As to clean politics, I suspect it's nearly impossible for someone to get into state or national politics and keep their hands clean. I hate that.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
Also, they're very close to Illinois, and if there's one thing that makes me wary of Obama, it's that he's an Illinois politician. No matter how well he speaks, that's not exactly a sparkling endorsement. I think, as a rule of thumb, one doesn't succeed in Illinois by playing clean politics.
NPR host Scott Simon has written a novel about Chicago politics. When he was interviewed about it on NPR, he mentioned that he thought Hillary could be a good alderwoman (like city councilperson, I think), but that Obama wouldn't. IIRC, this seemed to be on the basis of style, not ethics. FWIW.
As to clean politics, I suspect it's nearly impossible for someone to get into state or national politics and keep their hands clean. I hate that.
Aldermen in Chicago are kind of like congresspeople in the federal government. They're elected from one of 50 "wards" in the city to represent their ward in city council. Do you know what it was about Obama's style that made him un-alderman-like? I'm suspecting it'd be something along the lines of "he's too nice," but I'm not sure.
I know that clean politics are impossible (and yeah, it does make me cringe if I think too much about it), but I don't think that means you have to sink to the festering depths that our state has, though I may be biased... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
passer
Indigo
# 13329
|
Posted
Pardon the intrusion :
can anyone tell me what the predominant religious leaning is in Carolina, please?
Thanks.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
Protestant Christian? That's my guess...
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
Try adherents.com.
What do folks here read for their political info? I feel like I'm spending too much time reading the Huffington Post, which has a whole lot of unashamedly pro-Obama folks, and I'm looking to branch out.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
I think www.slate.com is relatively even-handed (at least I've read articles criticizing both sides).
I also know there are some columnists in favor of Obama (Eric Zorn) and some against (John Kass) at the Chicago Tribune (www.chicagotribune.com).
And these two make up most of my recent political reading aside from the ship.
--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
|
Posted
The folks here are who I read for my political info. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
--------------------
“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
Note to self: Think more clearly. Write more engagingly. Scot's depending on you!
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ephemera
Shipmate
# 13355
|
Posted
Religious demographics for the people of North Carolina:
quote:
North Carolina, like other Southern states, has traditionally been overwhelmingly Protestant. By the late 19th century, the largest Protestant denomination was the Southern Baptists. However, the rapid influx of northerners and immigrants from Latin America is steadily increasing the number of Roman Catholics and Jews in the state, and the numerical dominance of the Baptist Church is beginning to decline.
This change is most evident in the urban areas of the state, where the population is more culturally diverse and the bulk of the recent growth has occurred. However, in many rural counties the Southern Baptists remain the dominant Christian church. The second-largest Protestant church in North Carolina are the Methodists, who are strong in the northern Piedmont, and especially in populous Guilford County. There are also substantial numbers of Quakers in Guilford County, and northeastern North Carolina.
The Presbyterians, historically Scots-Irish, have had a strong presence in Charlotte, the state's largest city, and in Scotland County. The current religious affiliations of the people of North Carolina are shown below [34 - American Religious Identification Survey. Exhibit 15. The Graduate Center, City University of New York. Retrieved on 2008-04-15.]:
- Christian – 80%
- Protestant – 59%
- Baptist – 38%
- Methodist – 9%
- Presbyterian – 3%
- Lutheran – 2%
- Pentecostal – 2%
- Episcopal – 1%
- Church of God – 1%
- Congregationalist – 1%
- Assemblies of God – 1%
- Seventh Day Adventist – 1%
Roman Catholic – 10%Other Christian such as Non-denominational and Mormon Church – 11%Judaism – 1%Other Religions – 9%Non-Religious (unaffiliated, atheists, agnostics, and others) – 10%More demographic information is here.
--------------------
A cool small evening shrunk to a dog bark and the clank of a bucket -
And you listening. T. Hughes
Posts: 583 | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Swish
Shipmate
# 8566
|
Posted
I've seen polling suggesting that in a general election Obama could win the Carolinas. I know it's very early, but that would be a fantastic achievement. Is it just wishful thinking?
--------------------
Sorry Ted. I was concentrating too hard on looking holy.
Posts: 114 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Swish:
I've seen polling suggesting that in a general election Obama could win the Carolinas. I know it's very early, but that would be a fantastic achievement. Is it just wishful thinking?
Really? Oh, how I would love to see Obama win the Carolinas and Virginia. My hunch is that it's wishful thinking, but you never know. Virginia elected the first black governor in the country (Doug Wilder in 1990) It would indeed be fantastic.
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
ephemera
Shipmate
# 13355
|
Posted
South Carolina had their Presidential Primary on 26 January. The results:
The Democrates voted:
- Obama - 295,091 votes - 55%
- Clinton - 141,128 - 27%
- Edwards - 93,552 - 18%
The Republicans voted: - McCain - 143,224 - 33%
- Huckabee - 128,908 - 30%
- Thompson - 67,897 - 16%
- Romney - 64,970 - 15%
We will find out tomorrow about North Carolina.
This is an important one. (Of course they say that before every single primary.)
--------------------
A cool small evening shrunk to a dog bark and the clank of a bucket -
And you listening. T. Hughes
Posts: 583 | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ephemera:
South Carolina had their Presidential Primary on 26 January. The results:
The Democrates voted:
- Obama - 295,091 votes - 55%
- Clinton - 141,128 - 27%
- Edwards - 93,552 - 18%
Do you know how that works out in delegates?
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ephemera
Shipmate
# 13355
|
Posted
Sorry, I should have posted the delegate count along with the vote totals: ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
The Democrates voted:
- Obama - 295,091 votes - 55% -- 25 plgd delegates
- Clinton - 141,128 - 27% -- 12 plgd delegates
- Edwards - 93,552 - 18% -- 8 plgd delegates
The Republicans voted: - McCain - 143,224 - 33% -- 19 plgd delegates
- Huckabee - 128,908 - 30% -- 5 plgd delegates
- Thompson - 67,897 - 16%
- Romney - 64,970 - 15%
Of course the super delegates have yet to declare.
--------------------
A cool small evening shrunk to a dog bark and the clank of a bucket -
And you listening. T. Hughes
Posts: 583 | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
A question to the whole group: Will Huckabee's delegates give him any clout at the convention as to developing the GOP platform?
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
|
Posted
A very little, but not much. And that is about influencing the party platform, which presidential candidates in each party tend to walk away from.
The little influence will come as McCain tries not to actually further alienate social conservatives. He'll push a couple of token hot buttons at the convention to try to encourage the social conservatives to actually turn up at the polls, but it is mostly lip service.
Potentially, Huckabee could be a contender for the VP slot, but I imagine McCain has a number of other folks in mind.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
jlg
What is this place?
Why am I here?
# 98
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
The folks here are who I read for my political info.
quote:
Reply from RuthW:
Note to self: Think more clearly. Write more engagingly. Scot's depending on you!
Hey! I said it first, so do it for me, not Scot.
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 17391 | From: Just a Town, New Hampshire, USA | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
|
Posted
quote:
Bullfrog. wrote: And if you want a bright note, I wouldn't see Indiana going to Obama, for the same reasons Ohio and Pennsylvania didn't go to Obama. They're not his kind of people. (emphasis added)
"His kind of people?" That's is the part I don't understand at all. Hillary Clinton is worth $100 million and hasn't brought home a paycheck for the majority of her adult life because she enjoyed the privileges reserved for dabbling, dilettante spouses of the powerful. Barack Obama is worth about 1.5% of that and grew up in poorer and more chaotic circumstances than Senator Clinton.
And people perceive him as a member of the "liberal elite"? Idiots. (Them, not Bullfrog., of course.)
Posts: 2450 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
|
Posted
Indiana is an open primary, I believe. So it may well be that there are enough cross-over Republicans who vote for Obama to narrow things quite a bit. Turnout will be especially difficult to judge, I imagine, so the polls probably have a fair amount of variability in them.
What I don't get is why Clinton is seen as the hero of organized labor after NAFTA, etc. If it weren't for that union vote, Clinton would have been sunk some time back.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
|
Posted
Presleyterian--
You might want to look at this page of Hillary's official bio. While there's probably some spin there*, she's doesn't quite fit your description of her, IMHO.
* And with Obama. It's just the nature of politics, official biographies, and resumes.
--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
WatersOfBabylon
Shipmate
# 11893
|
Posted
So, I just voted here in North Carolina for the first time, and I was shocked to discover that they don't check IDs. The polling volunteers said that it's not required in NC. Is forsaking the ID check common practice?
Posts: 515 | From: I'm a nomad. | Registered: Oct 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ps118
Shipmate
# 13655
|
Posted
Until recently, IDs were never checked at polling places. The Supreme Court just upheld Indiana's law requiring an ID to vote. You have to register to vote, and perhaps show that registration card, but requiring a government-issued ID in order to vote was, and still is by some Justices, seen as an infringement of voting rights. For those who don't drive, getting an ID isn't or wasn't always easy or necessary. I have moved around a lot and have voted in many states over the more than 20 years I've been of age, and have never once had to show ID.
Posts: 185 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Indiana is an open primary, I believe. So it may well be that there are enough cross-over Republicans who vote for Obama to narrow things quite a bit.
or Republicans disillusioned with their party (the Obamaicans) and independents as well who are less inclined to Hillary?
--------------------
"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
quote:
Bullfrog. wrote: And if you want a bright note, I wouldn't see Indiana going to Obama, for the same reasons Ohio and Pennsylvania didn't go to Obama. They're not his kind of people. (emphasis added)
"His kind of people?" That's is the part I don't understand at all. Hillary Clinton is worth $100 million and hasn't brought home a paycheck for the majority of her adult life because she enjoyed the privileges reserved for dabbling, dilettante spouses of the powerful. Barack Obama is worth about 1.5% of that and grew up in poorer and more chaotic circumstances than Senator Clinton.
And people perceive him as a member of the "liberal elite"? Idiots. (Them, not Bullfrog., of course.)
Yeah. Sometimes following the endless ball-and-cup game of politics causes one to lose touch with little details like that...
I think there's an impression that Obama is running on the diversity/progressive social values half of the party, perhaps in contrast with the union/working class section of the party, which Hillary seems to be *cough*pandering to*cough*, I mean courting (yes, the irony is kind of painful, bu such is how things happen in this country ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ). I think the split between these two subsections has been one reason the democrats haven't been able to get their act together since Carter, if not Johnson.
Then again, the same thing seems to be happening to the GOP between the fiscal conservative wing and the fundagelical wing, so who knows where it's gonna go now?
--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Indiana is an open primary, I believe. So it may well be that there are enough cross-over Republicans who vote for Obama to narrow things quite a bit. Turnout will be especially difficult to judge, I imagine, so the polls probably have a fair amount of variability in them.
What I don't get is why Clinton is seen as the hero of organized labor after NAFTA, etc. If it weren't for that union vote, Clinton would have been sunk some time back.
Eh, I can see Republicans turning out for Hillary, especially since their race is settled, just to throw the election to her on the grounds that opposition to her has always seemed to galvanize the conservative base. That's not a pretty sight, but it's plausible in an open primary.
--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WatersOfBabylon:
So, I just voted here in North Carolina for the first time, and I was shocked to discover that they don't check IDs. The polling volunteers said that it's not required in NC. Is forsaking the ID check common practice?
I would imagine that NC is like my state in this regard. The polling places are manned by people from both major parties. One of the things that these people are expected to do is keep the other party honest. If there were any suspicion of wrong-doing, the volunteers would see that the state got involved immediately.
In places like where I live, the poll workers know just about everybody in town, so even the act of stating your name to receive your ballot is really a formality. In the more impersonal cities, this is presumably more necessary. But the reality is that there has been no evidence of systematic fraud in elections at polling places in my lifetime. There apparently have been some instances of absentee ballot fraud, but even that is pretty limited.
The large-scale tampering with elections in recent years has involved manipulation of the machinery of elections -- making too few voting machines available in precincts that are not friendly to your side, purging voter rolls of legitimate voters for similar reasons, etc.
The Supreme Court decision is party hackery and nothing else. It furthers the disenfrancising of people who are, on average, likely to vote Democratic. That's the reason for the decision and nothing else. It is more shameful tampering from a court that doesn't believe in "judicial activism."
--Tom Clune
[ 06. May 2008, 13:44: Message edited by: tclune ]
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
The polling places are manned by people from both major parties. One of the things that these people are expected to do is keep the other party honest. If there were any suspicion of wrong-doing, the volunteers would see that the state got involved immediately.
Thats exactly how things are done over here in Britain as well. In over thirty years of voting I have never once been asked for any ID.
--------------------
Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by WatersOfBabylon:
So, I just voted here in North Carolina for the first time, and I was shocked to discover that they don't check IDs. The polling volunteers said that it's not required in NC. Is forsaking the ID check common practice?
I live in West Carolina and every time I vote I show them my ID. They always tell me that the occupation government, currently ran by Governor Sleasley, doesn't require ID. I tell them they should.
A friend of mine was elected to a certain office a couple of decades ago with the help of the corrupt democrat party big shot locals. County workers were hauled from precinct to precinct and told what name they were to use as they got off the bus.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Indiana is an open primary, I believe. So it may well be that there are enough cross-over Republicans who vote for Obama to narrow things quite a bit. Turnout will be especially difficult to judge, I imagine, so the polls probably have a fair amount of variability in them.
What I don't get is why Clinton is seen as the hero of organized labor after NAFTA, etc. If it weren't for that union vote, Clinton would have been sunk some time back.
Eh, I can see Republicans turning out for Hillary, especially since their race is settled, just to throw the election to her on the grounds that opposition to her has always seemed to galvanize the conservative base. That's not a pretty sight, but it's plausible in an open primary.
No kidding. Rush Limbaugh (extreme right-wing talk radio pundit with a huge following) has for weeks been promoting his "Operation Chaos" urging Republicans to cross over and vote for Hillary in order to bring the decision to the Democratic Convention and, in Rush's cynical imagination, have fistfights break out on the floor. The right wing is desperate for Hillary to win the nomination. Whatever will they do with all those swift-boat-style ads they have just waiting in the wings if she isn't the nominee?
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
A friend of mine was elected to a certain office a couple of decades ago with the help of the corrupt democrat party big shot locals. County workers were hauled from precinct to precinct and told what name they were to use as they got off the bus.
Sorry, I just don't believe it. This was a hot topic a couple of years ago. Repubs were claiming widespread voting fraud of exactly this sort so that they could require IDs. Hearings were held, and not a single case could be presented with witnesses willing to go under oath. If this kind of thing actually happened, the Repubs would have been able to get it documented. It's just urban legend AFAICS, like the Reagan Cadillac welfare queen stories.
--Tom Clune
--------------------
This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
[qb] A friend of mine was elected to a certain office a couple of decades ago with the help of the corrupt democrat party big shot locals. County workers were hauled from precinct to precinct and told what name they were to use as they got off the bus.
Sorry, I just don't believe it.
That's ok. I can't say what this certain fellow did for a living because it would be pretty easy for someone who cares to figure out who he is. Given who he is, how long I've known him, his family's relationship with mine, etc., I do believe him.
--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
[qb] A friend of mine was elected to a certain office a couple of decades ago with the help of the corrupt democrat party big shot locals. County workers were hauled from precinct to precinct and told what name they were to use as they got off the bus.
Sorry, I just don't believe it.
That's ok. I can't say what this certain fellow did for a living because it would be pretty easy for someone who cares to figure out who he is. Given who he is, how long I've known him, his family's relationship with mine, etc., I do believe him.
I've heard enough Chicago stories to believe it. There's been a huge investigation into city patronage schemes in our city very recently (as in within the past 2-3 years). I'm now wondering if your friend works in Chicago.
--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
Indiana is an open primary, I believe. So it may well be that there are enough cross-over Republicans who vote for Obama to narrow things quite a bit. Turnout will be especially difficult to judge, I imagine, so the polls probably have a fair amount of variability in them.
What I don't get is why Clinton is seen as the hero of organized labor after NAFTA, etc. If it weren't for that union vote, Clinton would have been sunk some time back.
Eh, I can see Republicans turning out for Hillary, especially since their race is settled, just to throw the election to her on the grounds that opposition to her has always seemed to galvanize the conservative base. That's not a pretty sight, but it's plausible in an open primary.
No kidding. Rush Limbaugh (extreme right-wing talk radio pundit with a huge following) has for weeks been promoting his "Operation Chaos" urging Republicans to cross over and vote for Hillary in order to bring the decision to the Democratic Convention and, in Rush's cynical imagination, have fistfights break out on the floor. The right wing is desperate for Hillary to win the nomination. Whatever will they do with all those swift-boat-style ads they have just waiting in the wings if she isn't the nominee?
Just what we need...21st century "border ruffians." I keep thinking that this presidential race shouldn't be about race, and that just maybe it will be a sign that we've finally put the past behind us, but the bloody analogies cut a bit too close for comfort.
--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
|
Posted
Dang, Bullfrog, that link provides some unsettling comparisons. Get the popcorn ready for watching the election returns tonight, or, in the words of the immortal Bette, quote:
Fasten your seat belts. It's going to be a bumpy night.
--------------------
Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
|
Posted
quote:
Golden Key wrote: Presleyterian --
You might want to look at this page of Hillary's official bio. While there's probably some spin there*, she's doesn't quite fit your description of her, IMHO.
* And with Obama. It's just the nature of politics, official biographies, and resumes.
Hillary Clinton's own campaign bio actually proves my point. She loves talking about her experience with the Children's Defense Fund and on the House Judiciary Committee. But let's look at that a little more closely. She graduated from law school in May 1973, took the District of Columbia bar exam (which she flunked -- hey, it happens...) in the summer of 1973, and then moved to Arkansas in 1974 to follow Bill Clinton. So her experience in those two prestigious jobs totaled less than a year.
As for "running a legal aid clinic" in Arkansas, she was, in effect, a Teaching Assistant at the University of Arkansas Law School clinical program. I'm sure it didn't hurt that her husband was already a full-time faculty member there when she got the job.
Off and on from 1977 to 1991 -- with large gaps when she was campaigning and serving as the First Lady of Arkansas -- she worked at The Rose Law Firm. Call me an elitist, but a firm in the 121st biggest city in the United States is hardly The Big Leagues.
During those years, she also served on the boards of the Children's Defense Fund, the Child Care Action Campaign, and the Children's Television Workshop. Those volunteer positions are nothing to sneeze at certainly, but attending a quartly board meeting isn't the same thing as actually actually showing up day after day, making policy, being accountable, and getting the job done. And sorry, but charitable boards are often the province of dabbling, dilettante, do-gooder spouses of the powerful.
What's more, how likely is it that any of those groups -- and let's toss in the Legal Services Corporation and the ABA Commission on Women -- would have named to their Boards a part-time attorney in a Little Rock law firm who wasn't the wife of the Democratic governor of a swing state?
Of course, there are a lot of question marks about Barack Obama's experience. But he spent eight years as an elected state senator in Illinois before he went to Washington. And we can pretty much assume that none of what he has accomplished was handed to him because he was Michelle Obama's husband.
Posts: 2450 | From: US | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
moron
Shipmate
# 206
|
Posted
Here are Clinton's remarks after the IN and NC results.
quote:
Not too long ago, my opponent made a prediction. He said I would probably win Pennsylvania, he would win North Carolina, and Indiana would be the tiebreaker.
Well, tonight we've come from behind, we've broken the tie, and, thanks to you, it's full speed onto the White House.
snip
I know that people -- people are watching this race, and they're wondering, I win, he wins, I win, he wins. It's so close. And I think that says a lot about how excited and passionate our supporters are and how intent so many Americans are to really taking their country back.
But I can assure you, as I have said on many occasions, that, no matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party, because we must win in November.
snip
So now it is on to West Virginia, Kentucky, Oregon, and the other states where people are eager to have their voices heard. For too long, we've let places like West Virginia and Kentucky slip out of the Democratic column. Well, it's time for that to change.
And these next primaries are another test. I'm going to work my heart out in West Virginia and Kentucky this month, and I intend to win them in November in the general election.
snip
AUDIENCE: Count the vote! Count the vote! Count the vote! Count the vote! Count the vote! Count the vote! Count the vote!
CLINTON: You know, it seems it would be a little strange to have a nominee chosen by 48 states.
Hmmmm: it sounds like she's throwing a bone to the people who say she should concede but doesn't have much intention to, especially given the reference to the Florida and Michigan delegates. I read that the Rules and Bylaws Committee of the Democratic National Committee are going to meet in a few weeks to decide that issue so I imagine she'll be around at least that long.
And those tortured creaking sounds you hear are the tendons in the twisted arms of the superdelegates...
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Thread closed
Printer-friendly view
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
