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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
I'd vote for David Brooks for POTUS...
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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ToujoursDan
Ship's prole
# 10578
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Posted
I must say I am a little concerned about the way energy policy is being discussed in this election. McCain's call for energy security, drilling in ANWAR and offshore are completely untenable according to this US Government Report.. Even if all this was opened up today, it won't produce any petroleum until 2017 and will have absolutely no effect on energy prices as they are based on worldwide supply, which will be in serious decline by then.
It's also a bit disturbing that all the candidate talk has been about perfecting electric cars, when agricultural production declines are going to pose a much greater risk to our welfare. I don't think most are aware of the critical rôle of petroleum in food production and how much yields are going to drop as it is removed from the equation.
*) It takes 10 calories of petroleum to produce 1 calorie of food.
*) Pesticides and agro-chemicals come from oil.
*) Commercial fertilizers are made from ammonia, which comes from natural gas, which is also in decline.
*) Most farming implements such as tractors and trailers are constructed and are powered using oil.
*) Much of the beef and poultry yields are from hormone injections, which are developed and transported using oil power.
*) Much of our food is processed (and I am not just talking about Doritos and frozen pizza, but staples like meat, poultry, milk and cheese), in oil built and powered plants using chemicals and additives that are manufactured using oil powered processes.
*) Food storage systems like refrigerators are manufactured in oil-powered plants, distributed using oil power transportation networks and run on electricity, powered by natural, gas and coal from power plants that take oil to build and maintain.
*) Food is transported an average of 1,500 miles to the supermarket in the US and 5000 miles in Canada, almost entirely through truck traffic.
Also read:
Why our food is so dependant on oil
Will the end of oil be the end of food?
How will we grow food after peak oil?
Many of these processes can't be done using "alternatives", and none can be done nearly as efficiently. You can't run heavy farm and manufacturing equipment on fuel cell batteries, solar panels, wind or hydrogen and we don't have the [rail] transportation links set up to replace truck traffic when that becomes too expensive. Even if efficient alternatives could be developed, they would have to be deployed now before a price spike happens. Converting petroleum-based equipment to alternatives is going to cost multi-billions of dollars and take years, all of which will be passed on to the consumer along with the fuel cost spike as it ripples through the agricultural system and through lower production vs. demand. It may be the "perfect storm".
The estimates are that the world is going to reach peak oil production sometime in the next ten years (if we haven't already), once it passes and production starts a slow decline demand will outpace supply and the price is going to spike to levels we have never seen.
See this graph for projections of oil exports to 2020.
The whole food supply chain is dependent on cheap oil, once that is gone, it is going to collapse. Shouldn't even one of the candidates be talking about this? It's much more important than fuel cell cars.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I wrote a bit more about this on my blog: What I learned about the Energy Crunch This is going to be the biggest issue whichever next president will face.
[ 27. June 2008, 16:57: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan
Posts: 3734 | From: NYC | Registered: Oct 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Colin Powell may endorse Obama -- my, wouldn't that be interesting. If the Republicans want to trade Powell for Lieberman, suits me just fine. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Did y'all see the cheesiness in Unity ? In other circumstances that acting would earn them a brace of Oscars.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Colin Powell may endorse Obama -- my, wouldn't that be interesting. If the Republicans want to trade Powell for Lieberman, suits me just fine.
Agreed! Powell would be a very interesting choice for either VP or possibly Secretary of State or Defense.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
Well he wasn't a very strong Secretary of State the last time...
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
He had to work with the material he was given. He did urge the president not to invade Iraq. State was largely sidelined by NSC and Defense in the lead up to the war and for a good part of the occupation.
He did carry water for them at the U.N., being blinded by some idea of a soldier's loyalty I expect, and has some atoning to do. I'm sure he'd like a chance to clean up. He might even be quite good at it.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
I just think he's too tainted by the UN speech. Otherwise I'd think he'd be great for the job.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Did y'all see the cheesiness in Unity ? In other circumstances that acting would earn them a brace of Oscars.
I guess it comes with the territory but I almost felt bad for Hillary having to stand there listening to Obama say how much the country needs Bill: you could almost hear her teeth grinding.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
I guess it comes with the territory but I almost felt bad for Hillary having to stand there listening to Obama say how much the country needs Bill: you could almost hear her teeth grinding.
I thought I did hear her teeth grinding, but it turned out that they were mine...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Obama has been aptly described as elusive. And while a candidate may want to fuzz his image - to gain the widest possible appeal and keep from alienating potential supporters - it is the news media's responsibility to sharpen the picture.
There are more than four months left to finish that job. But voters are complaining that they aren't getting the information they need and that too much time is being spent on trivia.
That criticism is hard to dispute. Many news organizations picked up the revelation, from a Rolling Stone interview, that Obama has about 30 Bob Dylan songs on his iPod, including the entire "Blood on the Tracks" album. His wife's clothing and hairstyle have been dissected at length.
Far less attention has been paid to the lack of new thinking behind his candidacy, which closely tracks liberal Democratic orthodoxy.
Gary Hart, the "new ideas" presidential candidate of the 1980s, recently wrote that Obama, as president, "would have a rare opportunity to define a new Democratic Party." He can either focus on winning the election "to the exclusion of all else" or "use his campaign as a platform for designing a new political cycle and achieve a mandate for starting it."
Only 30? Reason enough to vote for someone else, although BotT is very good. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) (More seriously, somewhere His Bobsterness may be thinking that once again a political group is ignorantly trying to co-opt him for their gain, and what I'd give to hear his take on the two candidates.)
The article also talks about how many undecideds remain; it's easy for this junkie to forget how many people really don't give much thought to any of this until the election is quite a bit closer. Apparently the group consists largely of people with lives... <shrug>
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Far less attention has been paid to the lack of new thinking behind his candidacy, which closely tracks liberal Democratic orthodoxy.
Not to this liberal Democrat's eyes. And the LA Times ran this article yesterday all about how Obama is shifting to the center now that the primaries are done. Makes sense to me -- it's not like we liberals have another option, so he can move to the center to pick up the independents and still get our votes
quote:
The article ...
What article? Did I miss the link?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Well, this is interesting...
Apparently Obama wants to expand Bush's "faith based initiatives" program.
So, is this shameless pandering to the religious? A dangerous expansion of an already screwed up program? Levelling hte playing field between "faith based" and "non-faith based" non-profits? A wedge in the door to do-gooder liberal theocracy?
Or is it all just a waste of money? ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The answer is in the article: "The Illinois senator could gain tremendous political advantage even if he does not win over the group but merely cuts into the commanding leads Republicans held in Bush's 2004 re-election."
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Campbellite
Ut unum sint
# 1202
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Posted
I saw a recent poll (no link alas) showing that McCain has a roughly 65% lead with evangelicals, which sounds good for him. But the current occupant of the White House had a 80+% lead in 2004. If Obama can capture 25-30% of the evangelicals, McCain is toast.
And there seems to be a shift among younger evangelicals away from the old obsession with abortion and gays, towards social responsibility and the environment. These are people that Obama might appeal to.
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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?
Posts: 12001 | From: between keyboard and chair | Registered: Aug 2001
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
I think that there is a good chance that Sen. Obama's former church received federal (or state or city) funds for some of its successful and badly needed programs and/or he may have seen effective programs in other churches during his community work in Chicago - programs that might not have been possible without government grants.
Maybe, just maybe, it is not a political move at all, notwithwtanding the judgments of those who feel they have windows into Sen. Obama's heart, mind, and soul.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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JB
Independent Thinker
# 1776
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Posted
A cynical view.
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You live, you learn
You learn, you live
Posts: 2588 | From: Land of Enchantment | Registered: Jun 2001
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
On the cynical side, I am increasingly reminded of Robert Redford's film "The Candidate." But someone who shared my principles and said so would never get taken seriously in the first place (his name is Dennis Kucinich). As Roy Blount Jr. once said, "If you're going to vote for someone just because they agree with you, you might as well just vote for yourself."
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
Not many folks ever regret being cynical about a politician.
About all that can truly be said for Obama is that, of all the people who have ever ran for president, he is one of them.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
Mere Nick,
Unlike our current leader, Sen. Obama knows the difference between the past indicative and the past participle of most verbs. You could use a little of his help in this regard.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Yeah, well, Obama ain't ranning against The Decider, now is he?
He aren't.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
I still think he's being misoverestimated.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
Yes, he is. So's the other guy. Might as well go ahead and order the t-shirt.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Rev. Patrick J. Mahoney of the The Christian Defense Coalition comes out swinging with an image of a black Uncle Sam saying "I want YOU to pay for abortions!" High definition image here.
Nothing quite like the politics of single issue fanatics when it comes to ignoring the insanity of our failed foreign policy or collapsing economy. That's OK. Abortions are too expensive anyway and who gives a shit about millions of suffering foreigners in our crusade to spread democratic freedom and secure cheap oil? At least our unwanted children will be free to live their lives in Christian charity while pursuing the American Dream.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
From a young woman quoted in the article: quote:
"Senator Obama, this generation will not go back to the violent days of abortion on demand with no restrictions. It is very confusing that you do not want tax dollars going to pay for the deaths of American solders in Iraq, yet you want each of us to pay for the killing of innocent children through abortions here in America.
So, she'd be happier if he increased his support for paying for deaths of our soldiers?
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
$5 donated to Obama's campaign enters you into a lottery for a free trip to Denver and an opportunity to meet Obama backstage. There will be 10 winners.
So for the first time ever, I've donated money to a political candidate. I don't feel very dirty -- does that mean I'm sleazy? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I thought it used to be $5,000,000 and you got a patronage appointment in the new Administration.
At least this way is honest.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
...So for the first time ever, I've donated money to a political candidate. I don't feel very dirty -- does that mean I'm sleazy?
Yes, you are dirty, sleazy girl and your only hope of redemption is to accept my $5 invitation to a remedial course in political rectitude at the Super 8 Motel, 1900 N. Palm Canyon Drive, Palm Springs, CA 92262, at 8:00pm July 19, 2008.
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
quote:
Yes, you are dirty, sleazy girl and your only hope of redemption is to accept my $5 invitation to a remedial course in political rectitude at the Super 8 Motel, 1900 N. Palm Canyon Drive, Palm Springs, CA 92262, at 8:00pm July 19, 2008.
Gort
In chance of doing a dealing for video rights as am sure it will be a wonderful educational tool and urgently need by many.
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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the coiled spring
Shipmate
# 2872
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Posted
Gort
If it was marketed right, could be bigger then American Idol and you could show America`s Got Talent.
Your sitting on a gold mine
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give back to God what He gives so it is used for His glory not ours.
Posts: 2359 | From: mountain top retreat lodge overlooking skegness | Registered: May 2002
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Astute readers may recall one of our more prescient posters complimenting Obama for taking on the Democratic establishment concerning 'black responsibility'.
Payback is hell, or at least an uneasy shifting in your seat.
quote:
"See Barack Obama been, um, talking down to black people on his faith based -- want to cut his nuts off," Jackson said in a video that aired Wednesday on the Fox News program "The O'Reilly Factor."
And no, Gort, I still don't get Fox News. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
If Jesse Jackson keeps saying stuff like that and Phil Gramm keeps saying stuff like this, all will be well in November. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502
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Posted
You would have thought Jackson would have learned to check his mic after the infamous "Heebie town" incident. What a moron.
Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Yes, he is. So's the other guy. Might as well go ahead and order the t-shirt.
Funny, that's how I've felt in the past two presidential elections. This is the first one in a while where neither candidate makes me feel particularly queasy.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Yes, he is. So's the other guy. Might as well go ahead and order the t-shirt.
Funny, that's how I've felt in the past two presidential elections. This is the first one in a while where neither candidate makes me feel particularly queasy.
This is the fifth straight election for me to be hinky about the two leading contenders.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
If Jesse Jackson keeps saying stuff like that and Phil Gramm keeps saying stuff like this, all will be well in November.
If Dame Julian is right (and I've got at least as much as anyone vested in hoping she is) all will be well, and all manner of things, eventually.
First though this great Republic has to survive a serious run for prez by some sweet talking short term senator.
Either that or a serious run by some old fart.
This is all so complicated. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
So....are the editors of the New Yorker just that dumb that they thought a way over the top satirical cartoon on the front would not be commented upon unfavourably?
Or, are they that desperate to sell magazines?
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
My guess is that they were aiming at their usual audience, a fairly narrowly defined group, and didn't think hard about how it would play before a broader audience. In the context of their decisions, it probably seemed really clever.
I don't usually watch them, but apparently the late night TV guys haven't found much to work with in Obama's campaign: this NY Times article says only black comics and Stephen Colbert have managed to be funny and/or ironic about Obama.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
My guess is that they were aiming at their usual audience, a fairly narrowly defined group, and didn't think hard about how it would play before a broader audience. In the context of their decisions, it probably seemed really clever.
I don't usually watch them, but apparently the late night TV guys haven't found much to work with in Obama's campaign: this NY Times article says only black comics and Stephen Colbert have managed to be funny and/or ironic about Obama.
There's a large number of people who apparently will go into fits of total indignation if anyone makes a joke about St. Barack. I've never seen anything like this before. Even Ike or JFK who were very popular got plenty of zingers from comedians.
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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Do you know a good Obama joke? I don't think I've heard any, good or bad.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Do you know a good Obama joke? I don't think I've heard any, good or bad.
An interesting point, and it struck me I didn't know any either. A quick Google turned up this collection of late-night comics' attempts.
One of the most striking things to me is that most of them also have some other politico in them--very few are "pure Obama".
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Most of them use Obama or a news item related to him as a jumping-off point, and the real laugh is aimed at someone else. Either they're afraid to poke fun at him or they can't figure out how.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I thought the Conan O'Brien one about NASCAR was a scream. Not really making fun of Obama, of course.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Why aren't Obama supporters pressing harder for his portrait on Mt. Rushmore?
They're still working on how best to carve a stone halo.
*hyuk*hyuk*
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Either they're afraid to poke fun at him or they can't figure out how.
I think Ruth has subtly introduced a fascinating facet of this campaign.
If the former, who and what are they afraid of?
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Either they're afraid to poke fun at him or they can't figure out how.
I think Ruth has subtly introduced a fascinating facet of this campaign.
If the former, who and what are they afraid of?
I don't know what your confusion is. When it comes to the material in their act, comics are afraid of alienating their audience. It ain't very complicated. Of course, How to strike the balance between being funny and turning people off is difficult, but the goal itself is obvious.
ISTM that the problem that comics are having is the same one that voters are having -- Obama is new enough to the political scene that most of us still don't quite know how to take him. Comedy depends on a shared view (stereotype) to play off. Personally, I thought the New Yorker cover did a pretty good job of satire. But that just shows why I'm not in the comedy business...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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