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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
New Yorker
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
I just looked at the Secret Service website looking for contact information and found this faq:

>>How long do former presidents receive Secret Service protection after they leave office?

In 1965, Congress authorized the Secret Service (Public Law 89-186) to protect a former president and his/her spouse during their lifetime, unless they decline protection. In 1997, Congress enacted legislation (Public Law 103-329) that limits Secret Service protection for former presidents to 10 years after leaving office. Under this new law, individuals who are in office before January 1, 1997, will continue to receive Secret Service protection for their lifetime. Individuals elected to office after that time will receive protection for 10 years after leaving office. Therefore, President Clinton will be the last president to receive lifetime protection. <<

I didn't know Clinton signed into law that he would be the last to receive lifetime protection. If he really thinks it's such a swell idea he should have held out for lifetime service for those who are in office before January 1, 1992.

Really stupid law. Ex presidents deserve lifetime protection. Else one will be murdered and we'll all be second guessing ourselves.
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ToujoursDan

Ship's prole
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
While hoping I'm just needlessly paranoid for the man, I am very concerned about Barack Obama's safety. He's a Christian, but it appears he may have been a Muslim at one time. It also appears that the predominant, if not widespread, belief is that those who leave Islam are to be killed. I'm afraid there might be a terrorist operation against him as a demonstration to others considering leaving Islam that even someone with Secret Service protection can be reached. It may be much ado about nothing, but I hope the Secret Service has considered it in the security plans.

I don't see anything in his bio where Obama ever formally was a Muslim. He has a Muslim stepfather and attended a Muslim public school (which had other Christian and Hindu students) while in Indonesia, but there isn't any evidence he joined the faith. Therefore, he isn't an apostate.

[ 05. January 2008, 14:22: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]

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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
While hoping I'm just needlessly paranoid for the man, I am very concerned about Barack Obama's safety. He's a Christian, but it appears he may have been a Muslim at one time. It also appears that the predominant, if not widespread, belief is that those who leave Islam are to be killed. I'm afraid there might be a terrorist operation against him as a demonstration to others considering leaving Islam that even someone with Secret Service protection can be reached. It may be much ado about nothing, but I hope the Secret Service has considered it in the security plans.

I don't see anything in his bio where Obama ever formally was a Muslim. He has a Muslim stepfather and attended a Muslim public school (which had other Christian and Hindu students) while in Indonesia, but there isn't any evidence he joined the faith. Therefore, he isn't an apostate.
I'm afraid that might be close enough for a few nutjobs.

--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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Living in Gin

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I share those concerns about Obama's physical safety. Even if he doesn't get it from some Islamist fanatic, there's still the possibility that some homegrown racist fanatic might try to take him out.

That said, the fact that he can handily win a caucus in an overwhelmingly white and rural state gives me a lot of hope for the country's future. I can't remember the last time I've been able to feel that way. I really hope this is the beginning of something big.

[ 05. January 2008, 15:25: Message edited by: Living in Gin ]

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It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.

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RuthW

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quote:
Originally posted by Manda:
So why would states choose to have their primaries signifcantly after February 5th then? Isn't there a risk that they could end up ignored if a candidate has already got enough delegates? Or are they hoping it's close & they might have the late casting vote & get more attention if their not scheduled with 20 others?

Those states may have tied other things to those dates, elections for state offices, for instance, which make it inconvenient to move their primaries. When California's primary were in June, we had primaries for state offices at the same time. Now we've split those off, so we'll have the presidential primary in February, state primaries in June, and then the presidential elections in November.

But I don't really know the answer to your question. As Amazing Grace noted, California's primary rarely meant anything when it was in June, but it stayed in June for a long time.

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Amazing Grace

High Church Protestant
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What Ruth said.

About half the states have their gubernatorial elections in presidential years, so screwing with the primary date also screws with home politics. State party committees tend to not want to do that.

(When I'm a little more coherent, I'll do that research on the MegaDoubleUltra Tuesday states. California doesn't, and I'm curious on who else doesn't.)

Charlotte

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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play

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Campbellite

Ut unum sint
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I believe that Virginia is in on Super Tuesday. Unfortunately for me, My political leanings are most congruent with Joe Biden, who I don't think has a snowball's chance (followed by Gravel). My highest ranking choice is Edwards. The others are way too conservative for my tastes.

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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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Biden has pulled out, Campbellite. And who's Gravel?

So did anyone else watch the debates this evening? I blew off the Republicans, since they're not my problem, but I watched the Democrats. I don't think I learned anything I didn't already know. Of the four, I like Richardson the best, but I don't think he has much of a chance. Of the top three, all I know is that there's no way in hell I'm voting for Clinton in February.

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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
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Like I say every election: If the Democrats have it, they're going to have to find someone who can sell it.

Why is it so hard for them to find a user-friendly candidate? If they want a woman, they need a woman who has a better sense of herself than Hilary, like Elizabeth Dole (yes, I know she's a Republican; I'm just using her as an example.) If they want a black candidate, they need one who has a higher profile and more substantial experience than Obama, like Colin Powell (I know, I know.)

We're all looking for the best leadership. If it lies in the Democratic party, they've got find their Hermes. If you want a Republican opinion, I'd tell you to throw everything behind Edwards. I couldn't guarantee he's the most qualified, but I do believe he's the one who could bring in most of the Democratic votes, and even some Republican votes. If you want the party in office, you've got to do find someone the people will vote for.

Just my thoughts, of course.

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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
We're all looking for the best leadership.

I'm not sure that this is true. You and I are, but honestly I don't think all Americans are looking for the best leadership. I think a lot of Americans don't have the first clue what good leadership even is. When I see ordinary people interviewed on the news and they talk in vague terms about how the candidates make them feel instead of about specific issues or criteria, I want to hurl things at the TV.

Interesting that you think Edwards would be the most electable of the Democrats in a general election. It's occurred to me more than once that in the first election with a viable female candidate and a viable black candidate, I might end up voting for the white guy.

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Alfred E. Neuman

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Biden has pulled out, Campbellite. And who's Gravel?

So did anyone else watch the debates this evening? I blew off the Republicans, since they're not my problem, but I watched the Democrats. I don't think I learned anything I didn't already know. Of the four, I like Richardson the best, but I don't think he has much of a chance. Of the top three, all I know is that there's no way in hell I'm voting for Clinton in February.

Mike Gravel is the former senator from Alaska. Check out his Zen minimalist campaign ad here. Be very patient... he hasn't much to say.

Yeah, I watched the debates, Repuglicans and Dems. I liked Richardson, too. He has the most foreign diplomacy experience but unfortunately, his scowling continence didn't go over well during the debates. Hillary came across as strident and defensive. I'm guessing early that it will be an Obama/Edwards ticket in the fall.


The "Super Tuesday" primaries and caucuses: (Feb. 5)

Alabama
Alaska caucus
American Samoa
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado caucus
Connecticut
Delaware
Democrats Abroad
Georgia
Idaho caucus
Illinois
Kansas caucus
Massachusetts
Minnesota caucus
Missouri
New Jersey
New Mexico caucus
New York
North Dakota caucus
Oklahoma
Tennessee
Utah

Jan. 15: Michigan
Jan. 19: Nevada
Jan. 26: South Carolina
Jan. 29: Florida

From Wikipedia:

"Under Democratic National Committee rules, no state may hold their primaries or caucuses before February 5 with the exceptions of Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and South Carolina.

Florida Governor Charlie Crist (R) violated Democratic party rules in signing a bill on May 21, 2007, to up the date of his state's primary causing a chain reaction which moved many other states' primaries and caucuses to much earlier dates. Accordingly, the Democratic National Committee has ruled that Florida's delegates will not be seated, or, if seated, will not be able to vote, at the National Convention. Furthermore, the DNC has also stated that it will forbid any candidate from receiving delegates should they campaign in the Florida primary."

Michigan has moved its primary to January 15, also in violation of party rules. On December 1, the Democratic National Committee voted to deny Michigan’s request to hold its primary on January 15 and declared that Michigan’s delegates will not count in the nominating contest unless Michigan moves its primary to a later date.

--------------------
--Formerly: Gort--

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IconiumBound
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The insinuation that Obama was once a muslim has been determined to be a smear campaign launched by its source in South Carolina from which many other "dirty tricks" originate.

[ 06. January 2008, 12:00: Message edited by: IconiumBound ]

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Barnabas62
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I'm kind of hoping that the parties and the country will pick the candidate who can best address a key global issue - the restoration of US reputation abroad. I'm with Madeleine Albright on this issue - "never lower". And I regret that.

But I doubt this is going to happen. There is a strange paradox here. The nature and longevity of the competitive processes in US Presidential Elections, and the compulsive media scrutiny of minutiae, actually seem to get in the way of serious considerations of "suitability for purpose".

I'm tending to think that, despite the power of the party machines, this might be a year when at least one comparative outsider slips in as candidate - and one might win it. Western democracies are generally not much in favour of family dynasties - after the Bush disasters, that amongst other factors will probably lead to Hilary failing (either first or second hurdle).

A lot can happen yet, but at this distance, Rudi Giuliani looks a decent bet. There may be some wisdom in the way he's pacing things. I'm sure Hilary can't win the whole thing for the Democrats, and I've got some doubts as to whether Obama can. I'd rather a Democrat won, but I doubt it this time. Grits' arguments make sense to me. Partisanship within parties often leads to a discounting of wider issues.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I'm not sure that this is true. You and I are, but honestly I don't think all Americans are looking for the best leadership. I think a lot of Americans don't have the first clue what good leadership even is. When I see ordinary people interviewed on the news and they talk in vague terms about how the candidates make them feel instead of about specific issues or criteria, I want to hurl things at the TV.

I guess I meant it in a very broad sense. It's more a concept than a reality, like you said. Everyone would say they want the best candidate for the job, but how many are really serious and prudent about researching the platforms and getting to the polls?
quote:
Interesting that you think Edwards would be the most electable of the Democrats in a general election. It's occurred to me more than once that in the first election with a viable female candidate and a viable black candidate, I might end up voting for the white guy.
Yup. And it really doesn't have anything to do with the woman/black thing, does it? I think the right woman could get an amazing array of good things accomplished in office, and the race issue isn't really an issue with informed voters. There just seems to be lack of substance with both Hilary and Obama, but I could be wrong.

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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

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New Yorker
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I'm not sure that this is true. You and I are, but honestly I don't think all Americans are looking for the best leadership. I think a lot of Americans don't have the first clue what good leadership even is. When I see ordinary people interviewed on the news and they talk in vague terms about how the candidates make them feel instead of about specific issues or criteria, I want to hurl things at the TV.

I think more Americans understand the issues than we realize. But there are two other large groups. One who will vote for the candidate who'll give them the most, no matter whether that giving is good for the country. Another group who'll vote for a person for no reason other than race, gender, or where they're from.

I watched the Republican debate. I am still not sure who'll I vote for. Rudy is said to be the most electable. Fred and Mitt seem to share most of my views. Too bad Cheney isn't running.

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moron
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Mitt wins in Wyoming.

quote:
US news media virtually ignored Romney's victory in Wyoming Saturday as all eyes remained firmly fixed on the crunch contest in New Hampshire on Tuesday that will play a bigger role in shaping the overall battle.

The caucuses in cowboy country took place earlier than scheduled despite the objections of the Republican National Committee, with local Wyoming party officials attempting to drag the prarie state into the spotlight.

But as a result of Wyoming Republicans' decision to advance the date of the contest to Jan 5, the state had its number of national convention delegates slashed by half from 28 to 14.

Twelve delegates were selected in Saturday's county conventions while two more will be chosen at a state convention in May.


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moron
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Sorry for the double WY post but this tickled me: an ideal example of the disconnect between the MSM and rural America?

quote:
“It’s been exciting for us,” said Fred Paraday, the state chairman. “It’s our first time out of the shoot.”
I could be wrong, NY Times, but I'm guessing he meant 'chute'. [Biased]
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Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I think more Americans understand the issues than we realize. But there are two other large groups. One who will vote for the candidate who'll give them the most, no matter whether that giving is good for the country. Another group who'll vote for a person for no reason other than race, gender, or where they're from.
quote:
I don't know anyone that votes based on who will give them the most financially. No one. I know people who vote on who will give OTHERS the most, as in social programs for the poor, vote the other way because they gave someone else too much (eg the same social programs) but not themselves.

Yes, people also will vote based on race and gender but then white men have been doing that for centuries.

It has been my experience that people vote based on issues more than any other thing, with the possible exception of party line. They vote because they are pro-union, or because they are fearful of terrorism, or because they hate abortion, or because they love the freedom to have an abortion, etc. etc. Issues seem to be the key, to me.


Too bad Cheney isn't running.

[Killing me] You are so Republican that you are nearly an elephant. I almost think you're taking the piss.

Doesn't it bother you the power grab that Cheney has made? He is nearly a third-world dictator he has tried to grab so much power. Even when I was a hard core Republican I thought power grabs were a stupid idea, from either congress or the presidency, much less a V.P.

--------------------
Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

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New Yorker
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quote:
Originally posted by Mad Geo:
[Killing me] You are so Republican that you are nearly an elephant. I almost think you're taking the piss.

Doesn't it bother you the power grab that Cheney has made? He is nearly a third-world dictator he has tried to grab so much power. Even when I was a hard core Republican I thought power grabs were a stupid idea, from either congress or the presidency, much less a V.P.

Mad Geo -

I like Cheney. I don't think he's been grabbing power like the media tries to allege.

Now, pardon moi, but I need to clean my elephant trunk and swab my extra large ears.

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Living in Gin

Liturgical Pyromaniac
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[Roll Eyes]

If the New York Times reported that the sun rises in the east, no doubt some Republicans would claim it to be an example of liberal media bias.

--------------------
It's all fun and games until somebody gets burned at the stake.

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Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I like Cheney. I don't think he's been grabbing power like the media tries to allege.

Now, pardon moi, but I need to clean my elephant trunk and swab my extra large ears.

My gods. I am now cleaning diet coke off the monitor.

Let me say this, Ginful Living notwithstanding, I do believe in the liberal media bias (CNN, MSNBC, LA Times) in the same manner that I know Fox to be right winged. I also am firmly convinced that Cheney would have us with a presidency so powerful that Congress would have to ask for permission to open a door.

You really must read up on some libertarian manifesto's or something non-republican and develop a healthy mistrust of ALL politicians, not just the ones whose left side is overly muscular. Methinks your reading/listening/watching the Rebublican eduprop and Brutus Rightus is coming up with a knife behind you. The only thing scarier than the enemies in the other guys camp is the ones in your own camp, right?

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
[Roll Eyes]

If the New York Times reported that the sun rises in the east, no doubt some Republicans would claim it to be an example of liberal media bias.

And the New York Times would say it's George Bush's fault.

--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
[Roll Eyes]

If the New York Times reported that the sun rises in the east, no doubt some Republicans would claim it to be an example of liberal media bias.

Well, bucko, all I can say is ISTM them highfalutin elite eastern media types just don't understand rodeo...
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New Yorker
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by Living in Gin:
[Roll Eyes]

If the New York Times reported that the sun rises in the east, no doubt some Republicans would claim it to be an example of liberal media bias.

And the New York Times would say it's George Bush's fault.
And that women and children are hurt the worst. "How does one believe a serial liar?"
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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So come on Yankee-watchers! Call it for the New Hampshire primaries! This time tomorrow it'll be too late for us to respect your powers of prediction!


Media here assumes McCain will have it wrapped up for Republicans, though maybe that's just because they are looking at last time. They also assume Huckabee will do badly. But that might just be Brit prejudices about US evangelicals.

My guess is that Democrats will be yet another 3-way split, maybe this time with Clinton doing a little better than Iowa. But who can tell.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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ken
Ship's Roundhead
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Oh, and I wouldn't be surprised if the political career of Giuliani ends tomorrow. And maybe even that of Romney. Republican nomination to be a race between Huckabee and McCain with A. N. Other coming in as a shock late entrant.

But what do I know? I never worked out how anyojne could vote for some of those people in the first place. Or why there is so much vitriol against the rather unexceptionable Hillary Clinton.

--------------------
Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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New Yorker
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In New Hampshire, for the Democratic primary it looks like Obama will win. The questions are then by how much and who will take second? There are rumors that Hillary is at least pondering withdrawing from the race. I seriously doubt that, though.

The Republican field is wide open. If McCain wins, I don't think that will change the national picture. I mean where else does he have a following? I think for the Republicans we'll have to wait longer to find a nominee. (It's a cushy job with a nice paycheck. I'm available, but probably too conservative!)

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But what do I know? I never worked out how anyojne could vote for some of those people in the first place.

I guess it could be a little tough seeing as how your country was trying to hang the men who later become our first four presidents.

--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But what do I know? I never worked out how anyojne could vote for some of those people in the first place.

I guess it could be a little tough seeing as how your country was trying to hang the men who later become our first four presidents.
Yes, truly shocking. Now if it had been the current incumbent, you could understand...
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Campbellite

Ut unum sint
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Thanks for the offer, Firenze, but some of us would like to do that ourselves.

So many Republicans, so few lampposts.

--------------------
I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?

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Augustine the Aleut
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But what do I know? I never worked out how anyojne could vote for some of those people in the first place.

I guess it could be a little tough seeing as how your country was trying to hang the men who later become our first four presidents.
First five, surely? As well as Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Madison, was not Monroe also in arms against his lawful Sovereign? Although, as a young man at the time, he might have pled being misled by his elders, and gotten off with probation or a community service order.
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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But what do I know? I never worked out how anyojne could vote for some of those people in the first place.

I guess it could be a little tough seeing as how your country was trying to hang the men who later become our first four presidents.
First five, surely? As well as Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Madison, was not Monroe also in arms against his lawful Sovereign? Although, as a young man at the time, he might have pled being misled by his elders, and gotten off with probation or a community service order.
Right you are, sir, except not one of our presidents have ever raised arms against his lawful Sovereign. Monroe did get winged by British invaders.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
Thanks for the offer, Firenze, but some of us would like to do that ourselves.

So many Republicans, so few lampposts.

I'd go find one of my heaters and start shooting at anyone trying to hang one of our presidents. It seems being elected carries sufficient punishment in itself.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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ken
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Right you are, sir, except not one of our presidents have ever raised arms against his lawful Sovereign. Monroe did get winged by British invaders.

[Killing me]

I thought you were serious until then. Who says the Americans have no sense of humour?

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Ken

L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
So come on Yankee-watchers! Call it for the New Hampshire primaries! This time tomorrow it'll be too late for us to respect your powers of prediction!

I predict Obama will win by a large margin over Clinton, at least 10 percentage points, with Edwards a rather poor third.

On the other side, McCain will have a respectable but not huge win over Romney, with Giuliani and Huckabee neck and neck for third.

quote:
Media here assumes McCain will have it wrapped up for Republicans, though maybe that's just because they are looking at last time. They also assume Huckabee will do badly. But that might just be Brit prejudices about US evangelicals.
McCain is polling well in NH, and Romney is starting to look like he's in real trouble, scared even. Huckabee doesn't have the natural constituency there he has in Iowa.

[ 07. January 2008, 17:35: Message edited by: RuthW ]

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
and Romney is starting to look like he's in real trouble, scared even.

This does kind of make you wonder about Romney's mental state...

quote:
"If I come in in a second-place finish, that will actually say that I am clearly one of the leading contenders. I will have come in second in Iowa, first in Wyoming, second in New Hampshire. That will mean that I probably have more votes than anybody else in those first three states," he said.

Romney's first stop was the entrance of BAE Systems North America, where he found reporters and camera crews far outnumbered arriving workers. That prompted the former Massachusetts governor to exclaim, "We need some voters."

[Killing me]
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New Yorker
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quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
Thanks for the offer, Firenze, but some of us would like to do that ourselves.

So many Republicans, so few lampposts.

In my less charitable moments, there are a number of Democrats I would like to see swinging from the lampposts. Of course, most of them are so big, they'd break the post!
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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
quote:
Originally posted by Campbellite:
Thanks for the offer, Firenze, but some of us would like to do that ourselves.

So many Republicans, so few lampposts.

In my less charitable moments, there are a number of Democrats I would like to see swinging from the lampposts. Of course, most of them are so big, they'd break the post!
Well, there's one certain large Democrat senator I'm thinking of that I'd like to see in a dunking booth. It would be very fitting, especially if he was sitting in an Oldsmobile.

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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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There's an interesting article on Slate comparing Obama and McCain and claiming that

quote:
For all their obvious stylistic, ideological, and generational differences, both are anti-politicians whose fundamental argument is that our system is broken in ways that only they are capable of fixing. When McCain and Obama proclaim the need for "change" in Washington, it is neither meaningless rhetoric nor a fancy way of saying throw the bums out. They are both focused on addressing flaws in the political process—the power of special interests, unproductive hyperpartisanship, and the habits of reality-avoidance that afflict both sides.
I'm not sure I'm sold on this, but I'm glad I read the article, as there's link to this lovely little exchange of letters. I'm a little surprised it's on Obama's Senate website. Perhaps he thinks it makes McCain look small; I think it's hilarious and makes Obama look pretty green.
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Autenrieth Road

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OK, I'm probably the naivest of naive, but why do you think it makes Obama look green?

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Truth

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Grits
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Did anyone catch Huckabee on Letterman tonight? Whatdya think?

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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.

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Eutychus
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I see Hillary has won zero votes in the first NH town to return a result.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I see Hillary has won zero votes in the first NH town to return a result.

On a personal level I sympathize with how Hillary must feel having spent decades working toward this moment and seeing at least the possibility of failure. Politically, though, the Clinton machine has only lost one election in three decades so writing her off is probably premature: they know how to win.

quote:

Clinton had plenty to cry about Monday. Polls showed Obama surging ahead in New Hampshire, and national polls -- always fairly meaningless, but meaning a little more now -- show her national lead eroding, too. Assuming Obama wins New Hampshire -- and I didn't talk to a single Clinton supporter today who challenged that assumption -- he'll likely win South Carolina too. Based on little more than Drudge Report headlines, talking heads on cable were asking much of Tuesday whether she might drop out of the race after a big New Hampshire loss.

Of course there's almost no chance of Clinton doing anything but run hard until Feb. 6, after so-called Tsunami Tuesday, when big states like New York, New Jersey and California, where Clinton still has strong leads, hold their primaries. Clinton supporters and even neutral observers will tell you the game changes there. But a big win for Obama in New Hampshire Thursday could be a different kind of tsunami, sweeping up potential and even committed Clinton supporters in a nationwide wave of enthusiasm for Obama's inspiring-if-vague politics of change.


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Littlelady
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I see Hillary has won zero votes in the first NH town to return a result.

Yeah, but to be fair, only about 40 people voted there didn't they?

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'When ideas fail, words come in very handy' ~ Goethe

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Mere Nick
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quote:
Originally posted by 206:
Politically, though, the Clinton machine has only lost one election in three decades so writing her off is probably premature: they know how to win.

I heard Huckabee say that every time he was elected governor he was up against the Clinton machine. Then I saw Huckabee playing bass on The Tonight Show like Clinton did when he was running for president.

You have confirmed my suspicions. There can now be no doubt that Huckabee is a henchman, a running dog lackey of that very Clinton machine. It is now clearly obvious that Huckabee takes his orders from that den of iniquity located in the very bowels of the Clinton Library. Who in their right mind could doubt it for even a moment? Who? The only thing left to see is video of Bill and Huckabee jamming together after plotting some vile act of cruel eviltude and wickedidity.

--------------------
"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell

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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
Then I saw Huckabee playing bass on The Tonight Show like Clinton did when he was running for president.

You're really weirding me out here, on several levels: didn't Clinton play saxophone?

(But the more I think about it I've heard both the sax and the bass are instruments of the devil so maybe you're onto something.)

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Sioni Sais
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Will Hillary's tears make a difference? I can't imagine a candidate who got that emotional retaining a whole lot of credibility for long, and if she does get the nomination, then how long will it be before the Republican challenger asks if she will cry about anything else.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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ToujoursDan

Ship's prole
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It wasn't like Clinton was sobbing, she teared up and her voice wavered in a moment of passion.


...of course Howard Dean didn't really scream either...

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"Many people say I embarrass them with my humility" - Archbishop Peter Akinola
Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/toujoursdan

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Autenrieth Road

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Oh, pffft, tears are irrelevant. No more a sign of unfitting emotionalism then sneezing at pollen or sweating while running.

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Truth

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Anna B
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
There's an interesting article on Slate comparing Obama and McCain and claiming that

quote:
For all their obvious stylistic, ideological, and generational differences, both are anti-politicians whose fundamental argument is that our system is broken in ways that only they are capable of fixing. When McCain and Obama proclaim the need for "change" in Washington, it is neither meaningless rhetoric nor a fancy way of saying throw the bums out. They are both focused on addressing flaws in the political process—the power of special interests, unproductive hyperpartisanship, and the habits of reality-avoidance that afflict both sides.
I'm not sure I'm sold on this, but I'm glad I read the article, as there's link to this lovely little exchange of letters. I'm a little surprised it's on Obama's Senate website. Perhaps he thinks it makes McCain look small; I think it's hilarious and makes Obama look pretty green.
Oh my goodness, Ruth, that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. You just made my morning, and possibly my whole election season.

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Bad Christian (TM)

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