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Source: (consider it) Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
CorgiGreta
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It is not yet official, but the networks are confidently reporting that the choice will be Sen. Biden. I am very pleased.

Greta

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Foaming Draught
The Low in Low Church
# 9134

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Confirmed, and I'm pleased. Biden is an excellent choice as a foreign policy wonk. My only worry is that US voters (in the mass, not represented by the Ship sample) won't have the wit to see his quality.

This is important for the whole world, not just for the USA. In my lifetime, the worst disaster to befall the world, even more dreadful than the AIDS epidemic in Africa which is invisible to most folk in other continents, was SCOTUS' hi-jacking of the popular will in 2000.

FD

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moron
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Yet another one of my predictions bites the dust.

I give Obama credit for choosing a veep who is articulate and bright and clean. [Biased]

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Foaming Draught
The Low in Low Church
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quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
and clean

I think that the VP has to be an American politician, so you're stuffed. Forget "American", you're still stuffed.

Joe Biden is less unclean than most alternatives.

--------------------
Australians all let us ring Joyce
For she is young and free


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moron
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quote:
Originally posted by Foaming Draught:
Joe Biden is less unclean than most alternatives.

He could be. <shrug>

For the Democrats sake I hope he can overcome the 'Al Gore/John Kerry Factor' of perceived conceit: I believe it plays poorly enough in Peoria to have been at least partially responsible for W, twice.

IMNSHO Obama has been quite a bit better than average in this regard so maybe it will rub off on Biden.

[acronym revision for clarity]

[ 23. August 2008, 12:37: Message edited by: mjg ]

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Tembrina2
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I hope one thing that gets publicized about Biden is his truly extraordinary work as a leader in the fight against domestic violence.

The Violence Against Women Act, which Biden guided through the Senate, is really one of the best pieces of legislation in recent history, a law that has done a huge amount to draw attention to the problem of domestic violence and provide concrete help to victims. Biden did an extraordinary job in getting this legislation passed, working incredibly effectively with Orin Hatch and other Republicans who were committed to addressing domestic violence. The technical sophistication of the original bill is great, and the subsequent versions pushed through by Biden in much more hostile Republican congresses are also quite good.

Many feminists should feel good about Biden. (I personally I lost faith in Hillary when she failed in getting health care through in 1993, and Biden's role in the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill hearings was, admittedly not ideal.)

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Everyone wages two battles: in dreams,struggling with God and awake, with the sea.

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St. Punk the Pious

Biblical™ Punk
# 683

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From my blog:

I’m heartened to see that Barack Obama has chosen Sen. Joe Biden to be his running mate. For I think this is bad tactical decision, wonderfully bad for those, like myself, rooting against Obama.

Biden has no constituency outside of Delaware as shown by his absurd runs for the presidency. He’ll bring almost no one on board the Messiah Train.

Worse, he has a long history of not shutting up, of self-destructive verbal gaffes. In fact, I advise prayer for him that he doesn’t commit one until after he’s nominated for Veep at the Democrat Convention. And I predict he’ll have a verbal gaffe during the campaign that will hurt Obama. You heard it here first.

Further, he’s a pro-abortion Catholic. That sort of hypocrisy and unfaithfulness rubs a lot of the American electorate the wrong way. And it will bring more attention to the abortion issue – a weak issue for Obama given his radical record and dissembling on the subject.

So I think Obama picking Joe Biden is a wonderfully self-destructive decision. I suspect that one day in illustrated Bibles, beside verses saying evil men fall into pits that they themselves dig, will be a photo of Barack Obama presenting Joe Biden as his running mate. [Smile]

--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

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chadevan
Apprentice
# 12786

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quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
From my blog:

I’m heartened to see that Barack Obama has chosen Sen. Joe Biden to be his running mate. For I think this is bad tactical decision, wonderfully bad for those, like myself, rooting against Obama.

Biden has no constituency outside of Delaware as shown by his absurd runs for the presidency. He’ll bring almost no one on board the Messiah Train.

Worse, he has a long history of not shutting up, of self-destructive verbal gaffes. In fact, I advise prayer for him that he doesn’t commit one until after he’s nominated for Veep at the Democrat Convention. And I predict he’ll have a verbal gaffe during the campaign that will hurt Obama. You heard it here first.

Further, he’s a pro-abortion Catholic. That sort of hypocrisy and unfaithfulness rubs a lot of the American electorate the wrong way. And it will bring more attention to the abortion issue – a weak issue for Obama given his radical record and dissembling on the subject.

So I think Obama picking Joe Biden is a wonderfully self-destructive decision. I suspect that one day in illustrated Bibles, beside verses saying evil men fall into pits that they themselves dig, will be a photo of Barack Obama presenting Joe Biden as his running mate. [Smile]

Yeah, I guess being a pro-abortion Catholic could be seen as hypocritical--especially by all those REAL Catholics who follow Church teaching by being pro-Iraq war and pro-death penalty and anti-social safety net.

--------------------
Cast a cold eye
on life, on death.
Horseman, pass by!
--W.B. Yeats

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
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I think calling Joe Biden a pro-abortion Catholic is highly specious. His opposition to making abortion generally illegal doesn't mean that he is "pro-abortion": that's just facile.
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Anglican_Brat
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Meh, VP choices don't really affect electoral outcomes. I thought Biden was a safe choice, he seems like a reasonable chap, with good foreign policy experience.

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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St. Punk the Pious

Biblical™ Punk
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So he's one of those "personally opposed" Catholics politicians? [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

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Anglican_Brat
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
So he's one of those "personally opposed" Catholics politicians? [Roll Eyes]

Well there is always this statement from Catholic Democrats, insisting that they are more Catholic than those nasty Republicans:

Catholic Statement

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
From my blog:

[Roll Eyes]

quote:
Biden has no constituency outside of Delaware as shown by his absurd runs for the presidency. He’ll bring almost no one on board the Messiah Train.
You are seriously uninformed. Biden helps in Pennsylvania, where he is originally from, where his family has deep roots, and where Delaware gets a lot of its media. He has pull in northeast Pennsylvania and can talk to the lunchbucket crowd there. He's been called Pennsylvania's third senator for quite a while.

quote:
Worse, he has a long history of not shutting up, of self-destructive verbal gaffes. In fact, I advise prayer for him that he doesn’t commit one until after he’s nominated for Veep at the Democrat Convention. And I predict he’ll have a verbal gaffe during the campaign that will hurt Obama. You heard it here first.
He also had the best lines of the Democrats' debates, and I doubt he's stupid enough to fuck up this campaign.

quote:
Further, he’s a pro-abortion Catholic. That sort of hypocrisy and unfaithfulness rubs a lot of the American electorate the wrong way. And it will bring more attention to the abortion issue – a weak issue for Obama given his radical record and dissembling on the subject.
A majority of American Catholics think abortion should be legal, and non-Catholics among the American electorate in general have no problem with Catholics who think independently of their church leaders.

Nobody is pro-abortion. Do try to absord that fact.

quote:
I suspect that one day in illustrated Bibles, beside verses saying evil men fall into pits that they themselves dig, will be a photo of Barack Obama presenting Joe Biden as his running mate. [Smile]
You can't get facts right, so you settle for bullshit.
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CorgiGreta
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Sen. McCain divorced and remarried. His secong wife's money comes from selling beer, and yet the McCain's claim to be SOUTHERN BAPTISTS!

Greta

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romanlion
editorial comment
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
From my blog:

[Roll Eyes]

quote:
Biden has no constituency outside of Delaware as shown by his absurd runs for the presidency. He’ll bring almost no one on board the Messiah Train.
You are seriously uninformed. Biden helps in Pennsylvania, where he is originally from, where his family has deep roots, and where Delaware gets a lot of its media. He has pull in northeast Pennsylvania and can talk to the lunchbucket crowd there. He's been called Pennsylvania's third senator for quite a while.

quote:
Worse, he has a long history of not shutting up, of self-destructive verbal gaffes. In fact, I advise prayer for him that he doesn’t commit one until after he’s nominated for Veep at the Democrat Convention. And I predict he’ll have a verbal gaffe during the campaign that will hurt Obama. You heard it here first.
He also had the best lines of the Democrats' debates, and I doubt he's stupid enough to fuck up this campaign.

quote:
Further, he’s a pro-abortion Catholic. That sort of hypocrisy and unfaithfulness rubs a lot of the American electorate the wrong way. And it will bring more attention to the abortion issue – a weak issue for Obama given his radical record and dissembling on the subject.
A majority of American Catholics think abortion should be legal, and non-Catholics among the American electorate in general have no problem with Catholics who think independently of their church leaders.

Nobody is pro-abortion. Do try to absord that fact.

quote:
I suspect that one day in illustrated Bibles, beside verses saying evil men fall into pits that they themselves dig, will be a photo of Barack Obama presenting Joe Biden as his running mate. [Smile]
You can't get facts right, so you settle for bullshit.

All that said I think two things are clear from this pick....

"Gravitas" and "Change"....

Barack H. Obama represents neither.

[Projectile]

--------------------
"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Wow -- such a substantive contribution there, romanlion.

Honestly, though, I'm kinda bugged. The email came at 2:38 a.m. west coast time. I didn't get the news from the email; I got it from the radio before I turned on my computer. I really don't see the point of sending out a text or email in the middle of the night -- if they really wanted it to be exciting, they should have done it when people would be awake.

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St. Punk the Pious

Biblical™ Punk
# 683

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I stand corrected on Pennsylvania. And that is an important state.

I still think he will be a liability elsewhere.

--------------------
The Society of St. Pius *
Wannabe Anglican, Reader
My reely gud book.

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Choirboy
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# 9659

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I have to admit I'm a bit nonplussed. It does seem a rather 'safe' choice; almost a defensive one.

On the plus side, Biden brings foreign policy experience. I wasn't aware of his strong anti-domestic violence credentials as posted by Tembrina2, so I'm glad to hear that. But that's about all I can come up with for positives.

For negatives, I have to say that Biden doesn't actually look like 'change' to me. If Obama wins, he's pulled two senators out of the senate; I guess they must be fairly confident of those seats for the party, but it seems a possible risk. And, as St. Punk noted, he doesn't seem to bring much to the ticket from an electoral/constituency standpoint.

It also looks a bit like a defensive choice, as if feeling short on experience they have to go for someone fairly long in the tooth.

I suppose the choice can't really hurt (at least as compared to some that could have been made), but it is not exactly inspiring.

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Choirboy
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
I stand corrected on Pennsylvania. And that is an important state.

Yeah, but Obama was already ahead in Pennsylvania. Get someone who can help in Ohio, and you're talking turkey.

quote:
I still think he will be a liability elsewhere.

Anyone can be.
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Anglican_Brat
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The Vice President is a strange office in American politics. In Canada, the equivalent office would be the Deputy Prime Minister. Aside from answering questions directed at the PM when he or she is not in the House, the Deputy PM really doesn't do anything.

Same as the VP. Putting aside the ceremonial duties (Officially presiding over the Senate, voting in case of a 50-50 tie), the VP really is an undefined office. There has been some strong VPs, (including Cheney). But the majority of VPs have just been in the background. I can't remember anytime (pre-Bush II) where the VP actually made an impact on anything major.

I think we can simply abolish the Vice Presidency altogether. If the President dies or is yanked from office, the Speaker can simply take his place.

--------------------
It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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Comper's Child
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:

I think we can simply abolish the Vice Presidency altogether. If the President dies or is yanked from office, the Speaker can simply take his place.

Not while Nancy Pelosi is speaker - that would never pass... In fact when one looks at a great number of speakers of the House, they don't represent the heart of American politics, but rather always the fringe elements.
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Anglican_Brat
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quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:

I think we can simply abolish the Vice Presidency altogether. If the President dies or is yanked from office, the Speaker can simply take his place.

Not while Nancy Pelosi is speaker - that would never pass... In fact when one looks at a great number of speakers of the House, they don't represent the heart of American politics, but rather always the fringe elements.
I think Tip O'Neill would have made a fine President. And Nancy Pelosi is rather conservative according to her San Francisco constituents.

I would love a Pelosi presidency.

--------------------
It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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Comper's Child
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You or I might love a Pelosi presidency but it's not going to happen. Tip O'Neil was a delightful character, but it seems to me he was accused of corruption. Newt Gingrich comes to mind as well...
[spelling again...]

[ 23. August 2008, 17:35: Message edited by: Comper's Child ]

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Sober Preacher's Kid

Presbymethegationalist
# 12699

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I agree there have been forgettable Vice-Presidents. All of FDR's VP's were nobodys except for Truman, who only got elected in 1944.

The problem is that the Presidency's rules of succession are more like a monarchy then a democracy. The President can only devolve power to the Vice-President, and then on down the line. If the Speaker or Presdient pro tem of the Senate does have to either be Acting President or President, they have to resign their legislative posts. In modern times a President usually invokes the 25th Amendment when he is placed under general anesthesia, so the VP gets to be President more often then the public thinks. Dick Cheney has exercised the Office of President twice for a day or so.

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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.

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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Sen. McCain divorced and remarried. His secong wife's money comes from selling beer, and yet the McCain's claim to be SOUTHERN BAPTISTS!

Greta

Does it even matter in the court of public opinion? Most people seem to think the Bush family is likewise Southern Baptist, despite the fact that they belong to the exact same denomination as Hillary Clinton--probably the second most liberal mainline denom in the US.

If the present is a predictor of the future, then the two big issues that unite most conservatives under that big umbrella will still be unresolved issues in four or eight years, whether or not a Southern Baptist (even one who is on-again, off-again SB with former right coast Episcopalian tendencies) is in office.

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SeraphimSarov
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quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
I agree there have been forgettable Vice-Presidents. All of FDR's VP's were nobodys except for Truman, who only got elected in 1944.
.

well, Henry Wallace wasn't a nobody and it was 1948 [Biased]

[ 23. August 2008, 18:09: Message edited by: SeraphimSarov ]

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Sen. McCain divorced and remarried. His secong wife's money comes from selling beer, and yet the McCain's claim to be SOUTHERN BAPTISTS!

Greta

What does her family's income have to do with her personal attributes? I'm descended from horsethieves and bastards, and nobody's saying... oh wait.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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SeraphimSarov
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well, strike that 2nd part (Vice Presidency vs Presidency) [Biased]

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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SeraphimSarov
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Comper's Child:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:

I think we can simply abolish the Vice Presidency altogether. If the President dies or is yanked from office, the Speaker can simply take his place.

Not while Nancy Pelosi is speaker - that would never pass... In fact when one looks at a great number of speakers of the House, they don't represent the heart of American politics, but rather always the fringe elements.
I think Tip O'Neill would have made a fine President. And Nancy Pelosi is rather conservative according to her San Francisco constituents.


Justin,

they would see Mao as conservative [Smile]

--------------------
"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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Mater et Magistra
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# 9966

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quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:

Further, he’s a pro-abortion Catholic. That sort of hypocrisy and unfaithfulness rubs a lot of the American electorate the wrong way. And it will bring more attention to the abortion issue – a weak issue for Obama given his radical record and dissembling on the subject.

[Roll Eyes] Do you actually know any real, live Catholics of the non-online variety? Honestly, about the only part of the American electorate that this "rubs the wrong way" is the overly-loud group of "Conservative Catholics" online (most of whom seem to have converted in from the more conservative end of Protestantism, and now pride themselves on being more Catholic than the Pope) and conservative evangelicals, all of whom seem to believe that being a Good Christian means being a Good Republican. That both groups have been suckered into believing that the Republicans give a shit about any life issues, and willingly overlook what the Church has to say on issues such as a living wage, healthcare, unjust war, the death penalty, etc., is a shame, and shows that they're the real hypocrites, but certainly doesn't mean that the rest of us Catholics, or any other significant group of Americans, for that matter, consider Biden to be hypocritical or unfaithful for being "pro-choice-while-personally-opposed".

Biden, with his blue-collar, Catholic roots, will be a good draw for those voters of similar background, many of whom were Hillary supporters in the primaries. I also can't wait to see him in debate, he's always knowledgable, frequently entertaining, and importantly, he's a hard-hitter: something Obama, for all his other strengths, isn't.

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Campbellite

Ut unum sint
# 1202

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
The Vice President is a strange office in American politics.

FDR's first VP, John Nance Gardner is reported to have said that the Vice Presidency is "not worth a warm bucket of spit".

It is also noted that the media misspelled that last word of his quote.

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I upped mine. Up yours.
Suffering for Jesus since 1966.
WTFWED?

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SeraphimSarov
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quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
I have to admit I'm a bit nonplussed. It does seem a rather 'safe' choice; almost a defensive one.

On the plus side, Biden brings foreign policy experience. I wasn't aware of his strong anti-domestic violence credentials as posted by Tembrina2, so I'm glad to hear that. But that's about all I can come up with for positives.

For negatives, I have to say that Biden doesn't actually look like 'change' to me. If Obama wins, he's pulled two senators out of the senate; I guess they must be fairly confident of those seats for the party, but it seems a possible risk. And, as St. Punk noted, he doesn't seem to bring much to the ticket from an electoral/constituency standpoint.

It also looks a bit like a defensive choice, as if feeling short on experience they have to go for someone fairly long in the tooth.

I suppose the choice can't really hurt (at least as compared to some that could have been made), but it is not exactly inspiring.

I'm not too thrilled with Biden either (but better then the colorless Bayh) Richardson would have been a better choice byt Biden does have pull among blue collar voters (the Hillary factor) and among some of the Catholics in those constituencies.

--------------------
"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Richardson would make an excellent VP, but he's a charisma-free zone. The VP doesn't have anything he really has to do but campaign for the ticket, and Biden will be much better in that role. Providing he doesn't put his foot in it, and yes, St. Punk, I'll be praying that he doesn't. [Razz]
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Wow -- such a substantive contribution there, romanlion.

Honestly, though, I'm kinda bugged. The email came at 2:38 a.m. west coast time. I didn't get the news from the email; I got it from the radio before I turned on my computer. I really don't see the point of sending out a text or email in the middle of the night -- if they really wanted it to be exciting, they should have done it when people would be awake.


Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

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Ruth,

This a "round-the-clock" country. At 2:45 pm PT, lots of farmers are already up, as are tons of seniors, who are notoriously early risers. Meanwhile, on the west coast, vast numbers of young people are just beginning to think about sleep.

Greta

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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274

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Do you mean 2.45 a.m.? What are they -- fucking insomniacs? Yeah, 5.00 a.m. for your geriatrics, and 4.00 for ye olde farmers (of which my grandad was one and he certainly didn't get up at half two in the morning). OTOH, if you really did mean p.m. -- news flash, that's not particularly early.
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612

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Is this good or bad news for Hillary Clinton?
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GoodCatholicLad
Shipmate
# 9231

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But...is Biden "clean and nice looking"?
Posts: 1234 | From: San Francisco California | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

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Sorry. I meant 2:40a.m. Pacific Time. That's 6:40 on the east coast, and 5:40 in much of the mid-west.

My 88 year old mother in Michigan is noisily eating breakfast with her dogs and cats at that hour, much to my annoyance when I visit her and am trying to sleep.

Greta

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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335

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quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
Is this good or bad news for Hillary Clinton?

guess who will be the first to say "I told you so" if Barack loses?

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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"

Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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quote:
Originally posted by GoodCatholicLad:
But...is Biden "clean and nice looking"?

Oh. Gawd. Joe 'Hairplugs' Biden.

He should shave his head, get a sick tat and an earring or two. The kids would vote like lemmings.

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--Formerly: Gort--

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Sorry. I meant 2:40a.m. Pacific Time. That's 6:40 on the east coast, and 5:40 in much of the mid-west.

News reports said it went out just after 3 am eastern time; I was just reporting the time stamp on the email I received. (And the time difference between the coasts is three hours, not four.)

There's a funny montage on 236.com of clips from the CNN talking heads going nuts, waiting for the text.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Sorry. I meant 2:40a.m. Pacific Time. That's 6:40 on the east coast, and 5:40 in much of the mid-west.[/QB]

Your math is off. 2:40 in Los Angeles is 5:40 in New York and 4:40 in Chicago.

It's 6:40 in New Brunswick, etc. But nowhere in the US.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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moron
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# 206

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
There's a funny montage on 236.com of clips from the CNN talking heads going nuts, waiting for the text.

Not sure whether [Killing me] or [Paranoid] but may God have mercy: talk about the lemming vote.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mad Geo

Ship's navel gazer
# 2939

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quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
Is this good or bad news for Hillary Clinton?

I don't know if I already mentioned this but they have coined a name for the people that won't vote for Obie because of Clinton.....PUMAs for "Party Unity My Ass".

I sure hope that the Clinton PUMAs can get their heads out of their asses long enough to vote in their guy. Because he is their guy. If they lose because democrats can't stop bickering long enough to get their party in, I am done with them too. I am optimistic though that they will.

Biden: I was looking around to see his positions and found this old analysis to be rather amusing. On a scale of 0 (liberal) to 50 (conservative) Biden scored a 4.6. Damn, is he a democrats democrat apparently.

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Diax's Rake - "Never believe a thing simply because you want it to be true"

Posts: 11730 | From: People's Republic of SoCal | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Beautiful Dreamer
Shipmate
# 10880

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quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
I think calling Joe Biden a pro-abortion Catholic is highly specious. His opposition to making abortion generally illegal doesn't mean that he is "pro-abortion": that's just facile.

Thank you. Your post reminded me of a point I wanted to make, but I can explore more in DH if asked:

There is no such thing as 'pro-abortion'. I have never heard of anyone who actually thinks abortion is a *good idea*. What I am, what Biden is, and what pretty much everyone who wants abortion to remain legal is is 'pro-choice'. Meaning, we want a woman to be able to choose what is done with her body, whether she has a child or not. There is a difference.

Fact is, sometimes it has to be done to preserve the life of the mother. As much as we would like for the idea of an abortion to never even have been brought up, it has, and in some cases it is a necessary evil. But note the word *evil*.

[ 24. August 2008, 18:47: Message edited by: Sha_Sha ]

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More where that came from
Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

Posts: 6027 | From: Outside Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Alfred E. Neuman

What? Me worry?
# 6855

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God displeased with Democrats. Sends tornadoes to Denver area in preparation for cataclysmic display during outdoor DNC finale. Obama said to be marshalling charasmatic reserves for speech to stand-down divine forces. Thousands determined to withstand celestial armada.

Pictures at 11:00.

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--Formerly: Gort--

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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612

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quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
quote:
Originally posted by FreeJack:
Is this good or bad news for Hillary Clinton?

guess who will be the first to say "I told you so" if Barack loses?
So she wants him to lose to McCain so she can be the nominee in 2012? Although if her sour grapes looks to blame she probably won't be.

But if he beats McCain then she can't easily challenge him in 2012, he could win again and then she is probably out until 2020 by which time she is too old.

So she wants him to lose in such a way that her alleged lack of support is not considered to blame for it.

I don't understand why any genuine Hillary Democrat supporters would really prefer a McCain White House to an Obama/Biden one. On the issues like health care reform, foreign policy rather than the egos.

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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443

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I disagree with the notion that a Vice-Presidential selection is rather unimportant.

Fourteen V.P.s have gone on to be elected President, and while some Vice Presidents have been little more than ceremonial figures, others (and we could certainly start with the current V.P.) have been very influential.

Hopefully, those who intend to cast their ballots for a 72 year old will keep the above facts in mind when McCain announces his choice, a choice that I think Sen. Obama has now made considerably more difficult.

Greta

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moron
Shipmate
# 206

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This article is dated but an interesting glimpse into Biden's personality: a shoot from the hip type you'd like being around when you weren't wanting to strangle him.

I predict a more entertaining campaign. [Smile]

Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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