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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Two years ago she was the mayor of a small town of what, 6000 people? 7000?
about that within city limits, but it is the commercial center for about 80K, including my community.
I missed this and had to look it up since the "commercial center"'s name was omitted. Just as I suspected - identification was avoided because of the extreme embarrassment living within 30 miles of WASILLA, <cringe> Alaska. Commercial center? Is that what you call Ted Sattler's Mattress Ranch?
Gentle readers, Sarah Palin was major of a blinking yellow light on a two-lane highway to Fairbanks. Wasilla represents everthing that is wrong with fast growth in Alaska. Home to shabby trailer parks, greasy fast foods, no-tell motels, meth freaks and from all appearance, inbred hillbilly ne'r-do-wells.
Ah, the roots of conservative republicanism.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
After reading some things about Palin today, I have to say she seems attackable on several issues, aside form the question of the disabled son and returning to work, such issues as being cozy with oil interests, and the way that she seems to deal with people who cross her by, whenever possible, firing them. (Including the director of the library in the city where she was mayor)
Oh and she was opposed to listing polar bears as threatened. Picture the ads involving cute baby bears that could be formatted around that one issue alone.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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GoodCatholicLad
Shipmate
# 9231
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Two years ago she was the mayor of a small town of what, 6000 people? 7000?
about that within city limits, but it is the commercial center for about 80K, including my community.
I missed this and had to look it up since the "commercial center"'s name was omitted. Just as I suspected - identification was avoided because of the extreme embarrassment living within 30 miles of WASILLA, <cringe> Alaska. Commercial center? Is that what you call Ted Sattler's Mattress Ranch?
Gentle readers, Sarah Palin was major of a blinking yellow light on a two-lane highway to Fairbanks. Wasilla represents everthing that is wrong with fast growth in Alaska. Home to shabby trailer parks, greasy fast foods, no-tell motels, meth freaks and from all appearance, inbred hillbilly ne'r-do-wells.
Ah, the roots of conservative republicanism.
Golly I thought those sensitive, open minded liberal progressive types were above that sort of thing. You know making elitist sweeping generalizations about people because...well they are just BETTER than the rest of us who do! You know, enlightened! They don't make mean statements like that And they certainly don't take themselves seriously. it's ironic that the slack jawed, mullet wearing yokels I see at my precinct are registered Democrats.
Posts: 1234 | From: San Francisco California | Registered: Mar 2005
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Har. Just where did you gt the notion I was a "sensitive, open minded liberal progressive type"? Visit Wasilla, SF Boy, then get back to me. I've been there.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
...That issue aside, if my 43-year-old Governor -- after having four children -- got pregnant just months after taking the oath of office, I can't say that I'd be too thrilled, especially if her husband's job kept him away from home, too....
What does Mr. Palin (no, not that one! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ) do? It doesn't seem to figure in any of the main stories. Surely he has some child-rearing capabilities? OliviaG
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
Commercial fisherman.
[long weeks at sea, away from home]
[ 30. August 2008, 03:19: Message edited by: Gort ]
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by OliviaG:
quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
...That issue aside, if my 43-year-old Governor -- after having four children -- got pregnant just months after taking the oath of office, I can't say that I'd be too thrilled, especially if her husband's job kept him away from home, too....
What does Mr. Palin (no, not that one! ) do? It doesn't seem to figure in any of the main stories. Surely he has some child-rearing capabilities? OliviaG
Commercial fisherman by trade, also works the rigs in the oil fields, and is a champion snow-mobiler.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GoodCatholicLad:
Golly I thought those sensitive, open minded liberal progressive types were above that sort of thing. You know making elitist sweeping generalizations about people because...well they are just BETTER than the rest of us who do! You know, enlightened! They don't make mean statements like that And they certainly don't take themselves seriously. it's ironic that the slack jawed, mullet wearing yokels I see at my precinct are registered Democrats.
How dare you not fit my stereotype! ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
McWhatshisname and Palin are like old King David and the virgin to keep him warm (1 Kings 1:1-2). 'She's exactly who I need'. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
Isn't she also under investigation?? (aren't ALL Alaska Republicans under investigation?)
Alot of them are, thanks to Governor Palin.
From an article by a guy named Casey:
"Governor Palin has always run as the anti-corruption candidate. She served as Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004, when she resigned in protest over the actions of her fellow Alaskan GOP leaders, including then-Alaskan Governor Frank Murkowski. She was furious over the fact that they ignored her reports of rampant GOP corruption. When she chose to run for Governor, the GOP establishment ignored her and supported the incumbent Murkowski. Palin beat him, and went on to beat former Democratic Governor Tony Knowles with no support from Alaskan GOP leadership. She has actively supported and helped the GOP primary opponents of current indicted Alaskan Senator Ted Stevens and Representative Don Young, and denounced both of them often in public."
Does this appear correct, Comet?
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
no,
but she is under investigation now by the Alaska Legislature in relation to the firing of a State trooper.
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
What I heard today was that it was actually her sister's ex-husband that she tried to have fired. I guess we could all Google it and found out.
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by Presleyterian:
But don't think her interesting personal story is an unadulterated "win" for undecided women who are viewed as Independents or moderate Democrats.
It would be seriously underestimating the female electorate to believe they would vote Republican simply because of this.
My first thought upon hearing about Palin (and judging from reactions on TV, I wasn't alone in this) was a flashback to Bush 41 choosing Dan "Potatoe" Quayle in an attempt to capture the young adult demographic: it smacked of blatant tokenism. (And I think Presleyterian's dead on with the observation that McCain had better-credentialed women like Whitman, Collins, etc. to choose from.)
After further thought, I believe it isn't about women at all. McCain's using Palin to lure the blue-collar men, the Reagan Democrats in Ohio and Pennsylvania and the Rust Belt, who voted for Hillary not because she was their long-awaited female President but because she talked tough and did shots with them and voted for the Iraq War initially and favored a strong military. Palin's whole backstory about being Union members, about her husband being a fisherman, and yes, about choosing to go forward with bearing a disabled child: that's intended to play into a much broader demographic than disappointed middle-aged, upper-middle-class females.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Grits
Compassionate fundamentalist
# 4169
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Posted
Sorry. I just scrolled back and saw the ex-brother-in-law issue had already been covered.
What I didn't see covered is the difference in Palin's lack of experience vs. Obama's. It's not a time thing; it's a substance thing. (Of course!) She has had actual executive experience. He has had his 140 or so days sitting in the legislature. It is a big difference in the political world, and I'm thinking the Democrats may just leave it alone.
Now about this:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
How many American women advocates abortion as a means of birth control? And if you're going to call people's statements "bull," you'd better start backing up your own. You have yet to line up a single fact to back up any of the reactionary claims you've made on this thread.
I don't understand what you're asking. My statement was in response to someone who appeared to be assuming that all American women were "feminists" who'd be displeased with Palin's pro-life stance(or anti-abortion -- what is the deal? We all know what we're talking about.) I was just reminding him/her that there would be also be women who would side with her because of her views.
I'm the apolitical one, remember? As I told someone at lunch today, I honestly don't care who gets elected, and that is the God's truth. Either way, my life and my life's work will continue status quo, and I'll continue to make a difference where I can.
And what the heck have I said that could possibly be construed as reactionary? Do you think I'm making stuff up? I talk to people, I read our local paper, I read the emails my acquaintances are sending around, I watch them talking to my neighbors on the local news. I am merely a conduit of my reality. Don't kill the messenger.
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Lord, fill my mouth with worthwhile stuff, and shut it when I've said enough. Amen.
Posts: 8419 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 2003
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
How many American women advocates abortion as a means of birth control? And if you're going to call people's statements "bull," you'd better start backing up your own. You have yet to line up a single fact to back up any of the reactionary claims you've made on this thread.
I don't understand what you're asking.
You said "not every American woman voter advocates abortion as a means of birth control." This implies that you think at least some American women voters do advocate abortion as a means of birth control. I asked how many.
quote:
My statement was in response to someone who appeared to be assuming that all American women were "feminists" who'd be displeased with Palin's pro-life stance(or anti-abortion -- what is the deal? We all know what we're talking about.) I was just reminding him/her that there would be also be women who would side with her because of her views.
But Swish didn't say all American women are feminists, just that feminists care about access to legal abortion.
quote:
I'm the apolitical one, remember? As I told someone at lunch today, I honestly don't care who gets elected, and that is the God's truth. Either way, my life and my life's work will continue status quo, and I'll continue to make a difference where I can.
Hence your participation on the political junkie thread!
quote:
And what the heck have I said that could possibly be construed as reactionary? Do you think I'm making stuff up? I talk to people, I read our local paper, I read the emails my acquaintances are sending around, I watch them talking to my neighbors on the local news. I am merely a conduit of my reality. Don't kill the messenger.
So your reality is reactionary; I'm sure you're not alone. If you're wondering what I mean by "reactionary," I'm using the word in its classic sense: reacting against progressive liberalism.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
When I first heard this, I thought it was a classical "smother" move, to take the news agenda away from Obama and disable the probable "bounce". I think it's smarter than that. Seems calculated to cement the Christian right vote and encourage women to vote Republic.
But to me it still looks rather more a "tactical" than a "strategic" move. I think Biden added strategic substance to the Obama ticket; not so sure that Sarah Palin did that for the McCain ticket. There seems to be character, courage and independence of mind there; also I get the impression of a bit of a maverick. The next two months will be an interesting test of both tickets.
Well, this UK observer is getting an overdue education in presidential politics. With next week to come as well. Seriously, it has been good to listen to all the major speeches in full, rather than just the edited highlights.
One impression I'm getting is that the increased means of access are making this election rather more about "speaking to the people", and rather less "pundit driven" than in the past. I wondered how US Shipmates see that point?
[ 30. August 2008, 07:36: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
It doesn't seem any less pundit-driven than usual to me. That I'm getting emails from Barack and Michelle and Joe doesn't make me feel like I've got direct access to the candidate himself -- it's just campaign junk in my email inbox instead of my USPS mailbox. If anything, because there are more news sources, there are more pundits than ever, all merrily spinning along, trying to justify their existence. It's easier to learn about candidates than it used to be because you can just look stuff up on the internet, but you've got to care enough to do that. Most people won't -- they'll go by what they happen to see in the news and what their friends tell them.
The conventions are the most direct, "speaking to the people" moments for most voters, and commercial broadcast network coverage of them has been cut to an hour a night; public TV has all the primetime stuff, but if you want to watch absolutely all of it, you have to have cable. Plus you have to care, and a lot of people don't. That 38 million people watched Obama's acceptance speech is amazing; the news reports today say that's more Americans than watched the opening ceremonies of the Beijing Olympics. But it's also kind of sad, when you consider that a little over 200 million Americans are elegible to vote -- fewer than 1 in 5 elegible voters were watching Obama Thursday night.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Thanks RuthW. By informed US standards, I'm probably pretty ignorant, if not seriously ignorant. But I am serious!
I appreciate your concern, but those Obama viewing figures are amazing, by UK standards. I wonder what next week's figures will look like?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
After reading some things about Palin today, I have to say she seems attackable on several issues, aside form the question of the disabled son and returning to work, such issues as being cozy with oil interests, and the way that she seems to deal with people who cross her by, whenever possible, firing them. (Including the director of the library in the city where she was mayor)
Oh and she was opposed to listing polar bears as threatened. Picture the ads involving cute baby bears that could be formatted around that one issue alone.
Apparently she supported Pat Buchanan in '96. So there is potential there for attack ads quoting some of Pat's more, er, colourful opinions. I gather his views about Israel are not exactly those of polite society.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
grits,
Can we assume that, because you are "apolitical", you vote for roughly the same number of Democrats as you do for Rpublicans?
Also, being Governor of Alaska is rather minor league. The state has approximately the same population as the city of Memphis, and I dare say that the governing the latter is considerably more challenging, especially since Memphis is not awash in oil money and loads of pork, courtesy of an indicted comservative Republican Senator.
I think that she should have remained in Alaska, where she could continue to purge the state of its corrupt politicians. I give her credit for helping stop that bridge, but she is way out of her field in the world spotlight, whereas Obama has demonstrated the opposite.
And talk about ambition! What kind of woman with a four month old child with a serious illness thinks such a demanding situation can be reconciled with a job that could turn into the most demanding position in the world particularly when so many things are at or near crisis level?
Hopefull, for her sake, for the sake of the baby, and, in my opinion, for the sake of the rest of us, we send her back home, thanking her, though, for her concern.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
What kind of woman with a four month old child with a serious illness...
Why is gender relevant?
Better to ask (if you must):
quote:
What kind of person with a four month old child with a serious illness...
I'm no supporter of this woman but surely we've moved on from requiring a woman to put child care above career when we wouldn't expect it from a man? How working parents manage their child care is their own affair, to be worked out between the parents, not brought up when deciding who gets a job. What next - denying public office to any woman (but not any man) with elderly parents?
I watched Obama's acceptance speech and thought it was pretty good. I'm slightly confused that he was saying change is needed (yes please!) and that McCain wants more of the same and that he voted 90% supporting Bush. But Palin was saying change is needed too. I can't imagine she's at odds with McCain or is Obama wrong about McCain? Did I misunderstand one of them? Am I taking what they all say too literally (ie it's just campaign talk)?
Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Well, John McCain and Sarah Palin now have an opportunity to distance themselves from the many aspects of Bush policy which Obama (and Biden) identified as in need of essential change. I wonder just how much distance from Bush/Chaney they can create, publically, at the forthcoming convention? You can bet the Democrats will be watching carefully.
For the normal line when you're the party in office is "to build on what has gone before". And I think that may be the Republican weak spot.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Just how long does anyone think McCain can survive the stress of the Oval Office before popping his clogs? He turned 72 today. I'd give him 18 months before he checks out and Sarah Palin takes over.
The life expectancy of someone who is already seventy-one is more than eighteen years.
This site has this information. quote:
For example, although the life expectancy from birth for all people in the United States is 77.7 years, those who live to age 65 will have an average of almost 18 additional years left to live, making their life expectancy almost 83 years.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Swish
Shipmate
# 8566
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
Now about this:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
How many American women advocates abortion as a means of birth control? And if you're going to call people's statements "bull," you'd better start backing up your own. You have yet to line up a single fact to back up any of the reactionary claims you've made on this thread.
I don't understand what you're asking. My statement was in response to someone who appeared to be assuming that all American women were "feminists" who'd be displeased with Palin's pro-life stance(or anti-abortion -- what is the deal? We all know what we're talking about.) I was just reminding him/her that there would be also be women who would side with her because of her views.
Ouch. You know how to misquote a guy ![[Biased]](wink.gif) I was actually saying that gender isn't all, and on a lot of issues, of which abortion is a very visible one, there is a very big gulf between Palin and those feminists who made up some of Clinton's supporters, who are the people McCain seems to be going for. And this gulf is far to big to bridge simply by being a women, and suggesting otherwise seriously underestimates women voters. IMO of course. Women who side with Palin because of her views were pretty unlikely to vote Democrat anyway.
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Sorry Ted. I was concentrating too hard on looking holy.
Posts: 114 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Sep 2004
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
But what about the life expectancy of someone who is age 72 and has had three or four melanomas?
He is being more reticent than one would expect about releasing medical information. Usually, of course, I think someone's medical records are none of anyone's business, any more than their tax records are. But you do give up a certain amount of privacy when you are running for president.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clint Boggis:
I'm slightly confused that he was saying change is needed (yes please!) and that McCain wants more of the same and that he voted 90% supporting Bush.
But McCain missed 63.8% of Senate votes, so how could he support Bush 90% of the time?
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
But McCain missed 63.8% of Senate votes, so how could he support Bush 90% of the time?
It's not at all uncommon for a Senator (or a Congresscritter) to miss votes through being in a committee meeting or back in the home district opening a bridge (among many reasons) -- so this number while seemingly damning means nothing until we have an average number for Senators as a whole to compare it to. Also Obama's number.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clint Boggis:
I'm no supporter of this woman but surely we've moved on from requiring a woman to put child care above career when we wouldn't expect it from a man?
Points to consider:
First, raising a disabled child generally requires one or both parents to make compromises that affect their careers in order to care for their child. Parents of disabled children frequently turn down promotions, go part-time, or find other ways to reduce the demands of their career.
Second, Mr. Palin's occupation takes him out of the home for long stretches of time. This suggests that the bulk of the child-rearing responsibilities, in this particular family, falls on Mrs. Palin.
quote:
How working parents manage their child care is their own affair, to be worked out between the parents, not brought up when deciding who gets a job.
Ordinarily, yes. But this isn't an ordinary job. And, as I noted before with regard to Mr. McCain's health, applicants for this job give up some of the expectations of privacy that most of us have.
If Mr. Palin is planning to give up his current career in order to provide the hands-on, day-to-day care their child will need, to keep up with the doctor visits, to consult with the specialists, to provide the at-home component of whatever therapy the child needs, it would be nice to know that. Or perhaps they're planning to hire a full-time nanny -- although given her established position of rejecting household help (firing the cook that came with the governor's mansion in Alaska), I'd expect she wouldn't do that.
Whatever the plan is, I do think it's relevant to Mrs. Palin's ability to perform the job of POTUS. (Maybe it doesn't matter while she's just the VP. But if she's not not going to be able to perform the job of POTUS, she shouldn't be VP.)
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Being the only objective poster here places a large responsibility on my shoulders, one I'm willing to bear. With God on my side I feel led to add historical perspective to the debate on this unique Presidential campaign.
I begin.
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Excellent move by McCain, although we should have known he would go for a pretty, young bimbo.
January 24, 1994
quote:
For the troopers' claims to be untrue, they would have to have invented very specific details. Patterson told The American Spectator that he used a surveillance camera at the governor's mansion to witness Clinton engaging in a sex act with one of the women. In its separate story, the Los Angeles Times quotes the troopers as recalling the times Clinton would splash water on his face and chest to make his faux jogs appear more real so as to help hide his illicit rendezvous from his wife. The Times also dug up records of Clinton phone calls to women, including 11 calls one day in 1989 to the same woman. In what has become an all-purpose explanation for the President's phone habits, White House Counsel Bernard Nussbaum said, "This President calls a lot of people."
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quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
But you do give up a certain amount of privacy when you are running for president.
August 22, 1996
quote:
The Bob Dole campaign said today that President Clinton should make all of his medical records public, as Mr. Dole has, and not just summaries of his annual physical examinations. Mr. Clinton turned 50 this week and generally gives the outward appearance of being, in the words of his White House spokesman, Michael D. McCurry, ''a healthy 50-year-old white male'' with a healthy appetite and a few extra pounds to show for it.
But Mr. Clinton has not agreed to an interview about his health, as has Mr. Dole, who is 73 and partly disabled from his World War II wounds.
Think nothing of it: I live to serve.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
What's your point, mjg? I am completely at a loss as to what point you think you're making. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
...Whatever the plan is, I do think it's relevant to Mrs. Palin's ability to perform the job of POTUS. (Maybe it doesn't matter while she's just the VP. But if she's not not going to be able to perform the job of POTUS, she shouldn't be VP.)
I think that the full resources of the Executive office at her command would provide opportunity for professional childcare and health services that would free up a bit of time for her work duties. Her youngest may not know her during his formative years but I'm sure his nappies would get changed.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
Being the only objective poster here places a large responsibility on my shoulders, one I'm willing to bear. With God on my side I feel led to add historical perspective to the debate on this unique Presidential campaign......
WOW....a perfectly objective individual?
Tell me, should I wear boxers or briefs?
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
But McCain missed 63.8% of Senate votes, so how could he support Bush 90% of the time?
It's not at all uncommon for a Senator (or a Congresscritter) to miss votes through being in a committee meeting or back in the home district opening a bridge (among many reasons) -- so this number while seemingly damning means nothing until we have an average number for Senators as a whole to compare it to. Also Obama's number.
See my previous post.
There aren't that many bridges in Arizona!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Scot
Deck hand
# 2095
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Her youngest may not know her during his formative years but I'm sure his nappies would get changed.
And that is a problem for me. The issue is that the demands of Palin's personal situation seem incompatible with the demands of the Presidency, not that she might choose to tend to the wrong set of demands.
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“Here, we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead, nor tolerate any error so long as reason is left free to combat it.” - Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 9515 | From: Southern California | Registered: Jan 2002
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
But McCain missed 63.8% of Senate votes, so how could he support Bush 90% of the time?
Because Bush was MIA most of the time, too? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
Because Bush was MIA most of the time, too?
--Tom Clune
Or at least out to lunch (so to speak).
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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beza
Shipmate
# 10581
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Swish:
quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
Now about this:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
How many American women advocates abortion as a means of birth control? And if you're going to call people's statements "bull," you'd better start backing up your own. You have yet to line up a single fact to back up any of the reactionary claims you've made on this thread.
I don't understand what you're asking. My statement was in response to someone who appeared to be assuming that all American women were "feminists" who'd be displeased with Palin's pro-life stance(or anti-abortion -- what is the deal? We all know what we're talking about.) I was just reminding him/her that there would be also be women who would side with her because of her views.
Ouch. You know how to misquote a guy I was actually saying that gender isn't all, and on a lot of issues, of which abortion is a very visible one, there is a very big gulf between Palin and those feminists who made up some of Clinton's supporters, who are the people McCain seems to be going for. And this gulf is far to big to bridge simply by being a women, and suggesting otherwise seriously underestimates women voters. IMO of course. Women who side with Palin because of her views were pretty unlikely to vote Democrat anyway.
I suspect that McCain's calculation is not that Palin will attract Democrats unsure about Obama (I think he knows he can do that himself) but that she will get the evangelical, huntin', shootin', fishin', brigades of middle America, who put Bush in the Whitehouse, to go to the polls. The big fear for the Republicans is that they will simply not bother to vote, Palin might change that.
There is something of Thatcher about Palin, a non-feminist who nonetheless likes bossing men around and for different reasons that could make her a big hit with both men and women. Anecdotal evidence suggests that many women who deplored Thatcher's policies, were secretly delighted that she gave male politicians and trade unionists a good kicking for ten years or so.
Posts: 510 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2005
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duchess
Ship's Blue Blooded Lady
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Her youngest may not know her during his formative years but I'm sure his nappies would get changed.
And that is a problem for me. The issue is that the demands of Palin's personal situation seem incompatible with the demands of the Presidency, not that she might choose to tend to the wrong set of demands.
Why can't Mr. Mom do it?
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♬♭ We're setting sail to the place on the map from which nobody has ever returned ♫♪♮
Ship of Fools-World Party
Posts: 11197 | From: Do you know the way? | Registered: May 2002
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by duchess:
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Her youngest may not know her during his formative years but I'm sure his nappies would get changed.
And that is a problem for me. The issue is that the demands of Palin's personal situation seem incompatible with the demands of the Presidency, not that she might choose to tend to the wrong set of demands.
Why can't Mr. Mom do it?
I don't support Palin but I agree with this! There will be a Mr Mom in the White House sooner or later and sooner is a better bet.
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Palin is unlikely to play the sympathy card if Biden goes after her. she'll nail his ass to the wall.
with a smile on her face.
Seriously- this is no sweet and innocent little thing, she can be ferocious.
My decidedly-non-Republican fraternal unit in Chugiak likes her.
Some of that is because most Alaska Republicans seem to be ethically most like Illinois Democrats (only with moose-hunting licenses, flannel shirts, and better accents), and she's taken on her own party faithful in going after corruption.
And some of that is that he's a contrarian. (My brother?)
Speaking as one who, at this point, plans to vote for a third-party candidate, I think the addition of Gov. Palin at least adds some interest to the campaign.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Scot:
And that is a problem for me. The issue is that the demands of Palin's personal situation seem incompatible with the demands of the Presidency, ...
I believe that the job is inherently incompatible with "having a life" -- and I'm glad that some people aspire to do these necessary jobs. I wouldn't. Software development can run to 60 hour weeks; international crises to 168 hour weeks!
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Excellent move by McCain, although we should have known he would go for a pretty, young bimbo.
'kay seriously, define bimbo.
young, pretty and female? then I'm a bimbo too. that's perhaps one of the most sexist things on this thread yet, which is saying something.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Hiro's Leap
Shipmate
# 12470
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Posted
Petty niggle about Palin: she backed teaching creationism in schools, saying:
quote:
Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information....Healthy debate is so important and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.
Major concern: she rejects the science on climate change. It'll cause an interesting conflict with McCain, who to his great credit is going against most of his party on this.
Major concern #2: She thinks we can drill our way out of trouble with oil prices.
Aside from those points, Palin sounds great judging by comet's posts. Flogging a jet on eBay, tackling her own party for corruption, dumping the cook - she's ferocious (in a good way). Even the stances on abortion and gay rights sound reasonably moderate conservative, not hard-line.
But failing to appreciate climate and energy, the two key issues of the 21st century, wipes out all the good points for me. Impressively, she's even worse than Bush on climate change.
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Socratic-enigma:
... so just who are you going to vote for again?
(me thinketh the lady doth gusheth a little tooo much )
S-E
bite me.
Obama. but it might just hurt a little.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Just how long does anyone think McCain can survive the stress of the Oval Office before popping his clogs? He turned 72 today. I'd give him 18 months before he checks out and Sarah Palin takes over.
The life expectancy of someone who is already seventy-one is more than eighteen years.
This site has this information. quote:
For example, although the life expectancy from birth for all people in the United States is 77.7 years, those who live to age 65 will have an average of almost 18 additional years left to live, making their life expectancy almost 83 years.
Moo
According to the CDC mortality tables (2003 data) a white American male at 72 has an average remaining life expectancy of 12.2 years, and a 14.4% chance of dying within the next four years.
A black American male at 48 has an average life remaining expectancy of 26.2 years and a 4% chance of dying within the next four years.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
identification was avoided because of the extreme embarrassment living within 30 miles of WASILLA, <cringe> Alaska. Commercial center?
ahem. 67.5 miles, thank you very much. and we appreciate every millimeter.
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Gentle readers, Sarah Palin was major of a blinking yellow light on a two-lane highway to Fairbanks. Wasilla represents everthing that is wrong with fast growth in Alaska. Home to shabby trailer parks, greasy fast foods, no-tell motels, meth freaks and from all appearance, inbred hillbilly ne'r-do-wells.
Ah, the roots of conservative republicanism.
*sigh*
it's true.
We call it Wa-Zilla.
GoodCatholicLad said: quote:
Golly I thought those sensitive, open minded liberal progressive types were above that sort of thing. You know making elitist sweeping generalizations about people because...well they are just BETTER than the rest of us who do!
seriously, making fun of Wasilla is a multi-partisan alaskan past time. once upon a time Heaven had a thread on regional or job specific jokes. my contribution was a joke about Wasilla.
a state senator once called Wasillans "Valley Trash" and now those idiots wear t-shirts and bumper stickers proclaiming themselves "proud to be valley trash".
And there's another bumper sticker that says,"Lord, please help me make it through Wasilla." it's like our Bakersfield or Jersey City.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
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Posted
quote:
Grits wrote: What I didn't see covered is the difference in Palin's lack of experience vs. Obama's. It's not a time thing; it's a substance thing. (Of course!) She has had actual executive experience. He has had his 140 or so days sitting in the legislature. It is a big difference in the political world, and I'm thinking the Democrats may just leave it alone.
* * *
I'm the apolitical one, remember?
Apolitical perhaps, but with an obviously sophisticated grasp of what makes "a big difference in the political world" based, no doubt on your years of experience in that world.
Governor Palin's statement just weeks ago that she's not quite sure what the Vice President does doesn't ease my qualms. That she seems to think it has something to do with representing Alaskans in Washington suggests she might want to read up a bit.
[ 30. August 2008, 23:18: Message edited by: Presleyterian ]
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Presleyterian
Shipmate
# 1915
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Posted
Of course, the more people dismiss the duly elected governor of a state as a "chick," the more likely I am to vote for her.
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
Isn't she also under investigation?? (aren't ALL Alaska Republicans under investigation?)
Alot of them are, thanks to Governor Palin.
well, no. a lot of them are thanks to the FBI. now, Sarah may have been instrumental in those investigations beginning - but those records aren't public.
and for that matter - the original investigation was 8 legislators - one of them a dem. as for now, I have no idea how wide their net has spread. but it's untrue to say all AK republicans are under investigation.
some of them (like my House rep) are too stupid to be crooked.
quote:
From an article by a guy named Casey:
"Governor Palin has always run as the anti-corruption candidate. She served as Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004, when she resigned in protest over the actions of her fellow Alaskan GOP leaders, including then-Alaskan Governor Frank Murkowski. She was furious over the fact that they ignored her reports of rampant GOP corruption. When she chose to run for Governor, the GOP establishment ignored her and supported the incumbent Murkowski. Palin beat him, and went on to beat former Democratic Governor Tony Knowles with no support from Alaskan GOP leadership. She has actively supported and helped the GOP primary opponents of current indicted Alaskan Senator Ted Stevens and Representative Don Young, and denounced both of them often in public."
Does this appear correct, Comet?
it is correct except for her being the "ethics" commissioner on the AOGCC - that's the first I've ever heard of such a role even existing.
And Uncle Ted and Dipshit Don have those same fuzzy wuzzy feelings towards her, as well.
I have to say I'm really appalled at everyone's reaction to her child-rearing vs. career choices. I don't see anyone (at the moment, granted) calling McCain irresponsible for running for office as a "nearly-dead". (another local jargon - those who ride cruise ships are the "newly wed or nearly dead" - I'm not trying to be OTT ageist.)
Lots of people say Obama is the most likely target of assassination than any pol since Reagan. should he step down because it might literally kill him?
Come on, folks.
Sarah has had Trig in the Gov's office with her quite often. she has not only trained child minders but also teenage daughters. my teens are well versed in the care and feeding of the littlest Snowball. I just fail to see how this is different than any other executive giving birth to a downs baby. no shit it's tough, but is it fair to judge her very personal choices more harshly than we judge the others? Obama has little kids - perhaps he should stay home and raise them rather than being a working dad. It's better for their development.
and regards to her own investigation: she fired the Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monagan. Monagan has never been an actual state trooper, he was an Anchorage city cop, and then the Anchorage Chief of Police.
When she fired him, she offered him the role of Head of Corrections, which he turned down and poo-pooed as a demotion.
He then went to the press saying she fired him because he wouldn't fire Wooten, who is a regular beat-cop trooper out of the Palmer shop.
Wooten has been investigated for a number of things, but nothing has stuck. He is divorced from Sarah's sister, and the best I can figure out they're in a custody or child support dispute. it's stupid to try and get him fired if it's a child support issue, as that would mean less income. but whatever.
Meanwhile, Sarah says she spoke with Monagan about Tpr, Wooten, but never asked for any treatment, just wanted to talk. Monagan agrees and says the pressure was "unsaid" which makesit sticky to say the least.
After all of that, one of Sarah's aides came forward to say he had put the pressure on, and Sarah says she never asked him to. I'm not sure what that aide has said.
okay, next topic - of course Sarah supports petroleum development. to not do so in this state is political suicide. Even those to the left of Chairman Mao say they support petroleum development. Old Uncle Ted let out a screech high enough to kill large dogs when the polar bear issue came up. the state followed his lead, as we always have done until possibly now.
I'm not excusing it, it drives me fucking NUTS - but it's the reality.
if we declare the polar bears endangered species, we have to minimize impact of what is making them endangered. in this case, CO2 emissions. that could kick the Alaskan economy right in the nuts.
We need to diversify more anyway - one way or another the petroluem industry is going away. but in general the alaskan body politic is owned by the mineral industry, and they always get their way over the other big industries such as tourism, forestry, or fishing.
just this week the (stupidass) voters turned down a clean water initiative because the mining industry lobbied HARD saying it would destroy the industry. horseshit - every existing mine would have been grandfathered into it. but the knee-jerk responses of Joe Q. Voter around here are not to take a chance on losing jobs.
enough of that or I'll get hellish.
Just because I like Sarah doesn't mean I support all of her stances. I just think it's important to understand where they are coming from.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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