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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
The Huffington Post has published portions of a speech she made at WBC regarding construction of a gas line project in Alaska, in which she invokes the will of God: quote:
"I think God's will has to be done in unifying people and companies to get that gas line built, so pray for that," she said.
(Huffington report)
Youtube video of (apparently) the same (part 1, don't know where part 2 is) here. Deployment in Iraq is apparently "a mission that is from God"... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GoodCatholicLad:
I am surprised no one has mentioned the fact that she's against due process for a terrorism suspect. That's pretty serious.
Serious, but no longer worthy of comment. Republican candidates are nowadays generally assumed to be in favour of the use of torture in investigations and secret military courts.
Judging by the opinion polls so are half the voters ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
Now that we've had a decent look at the lightweight, is there actually anyone at all that thinks McCain/Palin winning would be a good thing?
There are millions of us who think so.
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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
Now that we've had a decent look at the lightweight, is there actually anyone at all that thinks McCain/Palin winning would be a good thing?
There are millions of us who think so.
A good thing or a better then the other thing?
I get the feeling Dems are running on a "Hey, this might be good for us all!" while the Republicans are running on a "Hey, we are better then that lot!" Its hard to run the second sort of campaign.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Seems to me the Dems are running on "Things are so bad, they need fixing!"
The GOP seems to be piggybacking, saying "Well, some things need fixing, but lots don't, and besides, we're the right ones to do the fixing."
At least they seem to want to say that a lot of Bush's policies were right, and at the same time distance themselves from Bush the man. I find it curious.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
Now that we've had a decent look at the lightweight, is there actually anyone at all that thinks McCain/Palin winning would be a good thing?
There are millions of us who think so.
A good thing or a better then the other thing?
I get the feeling Dems are running on a "Hey, this might be good for us all!" while the Republicans are running on a "Hey, we are better then that lot!" Its hard to run the second sort of campaign.
I think it would be a good thing. Obviously, I also think They're better than the Democrats
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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I live to serve, Twilight. And in that spirit:
Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention
Apparently some of the speeches fibbed just a wee bit.
edited because something weird happened and some of what I wanted to post disappeared.
[ 04. September 2008, 16:26: Message edited by: Nicolemrw ]
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention
Apparently some of the speeches fibbed just a wee bit.
Interesting that that's from the Associated Press and on Yahoo News, not Keith Olbermann or the folks blogging on the Huffington Post. And promising, to my way of thinking.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
I just read the first dozen posts of this thread. I have come to the conclusion that none of you would make it as a bellwether.
As someone who does not live in your country, my opinion counts for nothing, but for what it is worth when I spoke with some poljunkies up here a few weeks ago, we were of the opinion that McCain would win over Obama. Obviously this was before Palin was thrown into the mix. Or Biden, for that matter. I still think that McCain will give it a good push. , because the other party will find a way to fall apart.
I make no claim to punditry. It's a crap shoot and if the dice roll differently it could be anyone's game.
In the meantime, I will have my own Federal election to worry about. See you guys all later after Thanksgiving, by which time we should have sorted out who will be running things - or is that ruining things? Stay tuned.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
How do folks here feel about the repeated chants of "USA! USA!" at the RNC?
It really puts me off, as it makes it sound like they think the election is a sporting event, not the choice of who's going to run the country. But as I've noted before, I'm obviously not their target audience, so I'm wondering how it comes off to other people.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
For the record, not only do I support McCain/Palin, I'm looking forward to the Conservatives win in Canada & the U.K.
That would be a splendid trifecta.
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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
How do folks here feel about the repeated chants of "USA! USA!" at the RNC?
It really puts me off, as it makes it sound like they think the election is a sporting event, not the choice of who's going to run the country. But as I've noted before, I'm obviously not their target audience, so I'm wondering how it comes off to other people.
I'm not the target audience either. But I find most of the touchstones of right-wingers offputting and, frankly, inscrutable. I am completely incapable of making any plausible denotative sense out of such Republican applause lines as, "I've always been proud of the USA." I just can't imagine what it could mean. I have the sneaking suspicion that it really doesn't mean anything, it just evokes a tribal affiliation, like "Go, Red Sox!"
My density when it comes to conservative chatter makes it physically uncomfortable for me to engage in discussion with conservatives (undoubtedly to their great dismay...). It is rather like trying to discuss philosophy in a foreign language -- you're never sure that you have understood the sentences of the other person or properly translated your own thoughts into their tongue.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Tim McVeigh, Michael and me?
quote:
Knocking Bush for being a C student only endeared him to the nation of C students. Knock Palin for having kids, for having a kid who’s having a baby, for anything that is part of her normalness - a normalness that looks very familiar to so many millions of Americans - well, you do this at your own peril.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Yes, if you're a liberal with a pregnant unmarried daughter, you're an irresponsible parent. If you're a conservative with a pregnant unmarried daughter, you're just like folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZqfLl0NSAM
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SeraphimSarov:
Palin was certainly strident tonight (with her whiney accent)
HEY! I have one of those whiney accents! ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
How do folks here feel about the repeated chants of "USA! USA!" at the RNC?
It really puts me off, as it makes it sound like they think the election is a sporting event, not the choice of who's going to run the country. But as I've noted before, I'm obviously not their target audience, so I'm wondering how it comes off to other people.
Funny - I had always thought that the introduction of the USA chant to sporting events such as the Olympics was part of a politicization of sports.
But the chant puts me off in any venue, because I've come to associate it with jingoism. So it's no surprise that it turns up at the Republican convention.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
I have the sneaking suspicion that it really doesn't mean anything, it just evokes a tribal affiliation, like "Go, Red Sox!"
Wait a minute - 'Go, Red Sox!' has a lot of meaning! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm beginning to think that 'I put my country first' means 'I put my politics first - even in front of the constitution.'
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
...My density when it comes to conservative chatter makes it physically uncomfortable for me to engage in discussion with conservatives (undoubtedly to their great dismay...). It is rather like trying to discuss philosophy in a foreign language -- you're never sure that you have understood the sentences of the other person or properly translated your own thoughts into their tongue.
This happened to me a couple days ago when engaging a young conservative Republican in our office. No matter what point I brought up regarding the failed Bush administration and McCain's apparent willingness to continue same, I was met with patriotic platitudes and the "danger" of a Democrat taking over the oval office. The shiny gleam in her eyes while continually interrupting my protests was rather scary.
I retreated with half-assed capitulations along the lines of... "Hmmm. You may have a point there. Umm. Well, I should be getting back to work."
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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FreeJack
Shipmate
# 10612
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
For the record, not only do I support McCain/Palin, I'm looking forward to the Conservatives win in Canada & the U.K.
That would be a splendid trifecta.
You will probably have to wait a year or more for your third horse to come in. McStalin has waited three decades for power and he doesn't want to lose it now.
Posts: 3588 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Socratic-enigma
Shipmate
# 12074
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Posted
Sorry, did I hear right?
quote:
"What's the difference between a Hockey Mum and a Pit Bull?
One's a Dipstick"
* Supports the teaching of 'Creationism'(sic) in schools
* Is against sex education in schools and preaches 'abstinence'(even siccer) - Gees it worked well in her family didn' it!
*God ordained that the USA should invade Iraq (hurl)
But what better than a 'Good Ol' Gurl' in the White House, who can double as a pin-up.
Yes I know, we know we had Pauline Hanson, who despite some measure of popularity was never mainstream, and the majority of Australians treated as a joke.
But if America doesn't elect the erudite, forthright and intelligent candidate (who just happens to be black) in anything less than a landslide then Jerimiah Wright will be proved wrong.
You wont need God to damn America.
You'll damn yourselves
S-E
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"Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office than to serve and obey them."
David Hume
Posts: 817 | From: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: Nov 2006
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
How do folks here feel about the repeated chants of "USA! USA!" at the RNC?
It really puts me off, as it makes it sound like they think the election is a sporting event, not the choice of who's going to run the country. But as I've noted before, I'm obviously not their target audience, so I'm wondering how it comes off to other people.
I'm not the target audience either. But I find most of the touchstones of right-wingers offputting and, frankly, inscrutable. I am completely incapable of making any plausible denotative sense out of such Republican applause lines as, "I've always been proud of the USA." I just can't imagine what it could mean. I have the sneaking suspicion that it really doesn't mean anything, it just evokes a tribal affiliation, like "Go, Red Sox!"
My density when it comes to conservative chatter makes it physically uncomfortable for me to engage in discussion with conservatives (undoubtedly to their great dismay...). It is rather like trying to discuss philosophy in a foreign language -- you're never sure that you have understood the sentences of the other person or properly translated your own thoughts into their tongue.
--Tom Clune
I was going to ask if anyone else was slightly creeped out by the whole presentation of the Republican convention. Don't get me wrong, I don't object to having the colors of the country's national flag as part of the decor, but there is such a thing as overkill. The huge non-stop waving flag on the screen behind the podium seems idolatrous for a party that has professes Christianity as its quasi-official religion (albeit in a twisted distorted version). Particularly chilling, on the first night, was "Country First" repeated continuously displayed in a band all around the convention hall. The whole thing had a bit of a whiff of a Nurenburg rally about it I thought.
Tom, what you say about trying to have a discussion with people of this particular mindset is discussed in Chris Hedges' American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America. His research bears out what you are you say about the difficulty in carrying out meaningful dialogue, because they have no interest in real dialogue. In their view there is nothing to discuss. They already have all the answers they need and their relation to all who disagree with them -- if they can't convert them -- is one of "spiritual warfare" against them.
Hedges' description of the parallels in the Christian right wing, particularly the "Dominionist" movement, to the European fascist movements that sprung up to such horrific results in the 1920s to such ultimately horrific results in the 1930s seems so on point as to be scarey. I honestly think it should be a call to any thinking person in the U.S. who cares about democracy and civilized society. It truly is threatened here.
My only minor quibble with Hedges is his take on certain points of Christian beliefs. E.g., while I don't believe in putting God to the test to perform miracles (like Hinn et al.) since I believe God gave us a rational mind as the regular way to deal with with the rational world S(h)e gave us, I do believe miracles happen, but that is on another level, and I don't try to confound faith in God with the scientific method as do the "Intelligent Design" folks.
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
tclune, in a post above wrote:
"such Republican applause lines as, "I've
always been proud of the USA." I just can't imagine what it could mean."
(italics for emphasis, mine)
Isn't this a dig at Michelle Obama's comment about something-or-other being the first time she could say she was really proud of the USA ?
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Oinkster
"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
Posts: 3622 | From: The Keystone State | Registered: May 2006
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
That was my impression, and I think that Gov. Palin's statement is much more dangerous that Michelle's.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
ISTM that by far the largest voting bloc in the US is the Yahoo. They nominated GW over McCain and elected him over two dull-normals who looked like geniuses when placed beside him. And that was their problem -- they weren't big enough dipsticks to make the great unwashed feel "comfortable."
Part of the Yahoo view of the world is that being created equal somehow means that nobody is any better than anybody else at anything (except sports, of course, which is the one allowable meritocracy). Anybody who thinks that [s]he is better qualified to be POTUS than a random high school dropout is an elitist who is per force unqualified to lead them.
I think that McCain finally learned that lesson when he realized that he couldn't win enough votes by simply placing his experience against Obama's and declaring himself the winner. One thing that appears to be true of McCain is that he has a brittle and petty streak in him. I think he chose Palin as a "fuck you" to the voters. But I also think that it may work. As a country, we really are that stupid.
Now, Palin may be some sort of political savant who doesn't need to have actually done anything to rise to the occasion. But, if she is smart, she'll act like a complete zero throughout the campaign.
The last thing she should do is try to establish her competency. She doesn't have enough time to succeed with those who care, and those who hate the idea of electing anyone "better" than themselves will be turned off. Yahoos are as quick to see people acting superior to them as women are to see sexism and blacks are to see racism. It doesn't matter whether it is actually there, it just needs to be suspected to be effective.
You'll know that Palin "gets it" if she goes on a college tour doing Jello shots...
--Tom Clune
I'm bringing this forward because I thought of it so many times during Palin's speech. I think it's very true, depressingly so.
My church has several Sarah Palins. Fairly smart women with college degrees, pretty, faithful Christians, sons in the Army, unmarried daughters pregnant, ill parents. I like them but I wouldn't dream of voting for them beyond the School Board. I have a bad feeling that they're all going to vote for Palin/McCain because, "She has the same problems, she understands." Never stopping to ask themselves, why they think that's any indication that she could actually fix the problem.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
tclune, in a post above wrote:
"such Republican applause lines as, "I've
always been proud of the USA." I just can't imagine what it could mean."
(italics for emphasis, mine)
Isn't this a dig at Michelle Obama's comment about something-or-other being the first time she could say she was really proud of the USA ?
Yes, I think it was said in response to Mrs Obama (although the phrase seems to be a staple of the right). If memory serves, Mrs. Obama basically said that when her husband won the nomination to be POTUS was the first time that she felt proud of the USA. I know what that means: she felt that the body politic rose above its racial history to nominate him, and that this act was inspirational.
Now, what does the response mean? That Mrs. Palin has always felt that the body politic has done the right thing? I doubt that. What else might it mean?
Or is it just something that says, "Mrs. Obama isn't one of us." I suspect that that is precisely what is intended -- that it is, as I indicated, a tribal identification and nothing else. But, if there is an alternative denotative meaning that I simply am not grasping, please feel free to enlighten me.
--Tom Clune
[ 04. September 2008, 20:18: Message edited by: tclune ]
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I'm bringing this forward because I thought of it so many times during Palin's speech. I think it's very true, depressingly so.
Perhaps I should make you my campaign manager in my drive to get my very own Hell call. Thanks for thinking of me...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Socratic-enigma:
But if America doesn't elect the erudite, forthright and intelligent candidate (who just happens to be black) in anything less than a landslide then Jerimiah Wright will be proved wrong.
And me.
I'm now more convinced than ever that a Rep win would be: A) a disaster, and B)proof that racism stopped Obama from winning.
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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philip99a
Shipmate
# 13799
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Posted
A very minor post......
Palin is like a moose going after a cabbage
The moose bit I get = Canada, or even = rural Canada
but "going after a cabbage". Please, I'm drowning here! Interpretation required!
PS I've done my homework. Searched in Purgatory for "cabbage". Found total zilch. Remarkable imho.
[ 04. September 2008, 21:00: Message edited by: philip99a ]
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We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time T. S. Elliot (Four Quartets)
Posts: 1300 | From: Leicester (UK) | Registered: Jun 2008
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by philip99a:
A very minor post......
Palin is like a moose going after a cabbage
The moose bit I get = Canada, or even = rural Canada
but "going after a cabbage". Please, I'm drowning here! Interpretation required!
PS I've done my homework. Searched in Purgatory for "cabbage". Found total zilch. Remarkable imho.
I think it just means that she's doing what comes naturally to her -- kind of like saying that she takes to it like a duck takes to water.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
At least one of his contemporaries felt they might "have traded one King George for another".
I have heard that too, but I don't think that it was meant personally. It underscores my point, really. No one knew how or whether the new U.S. Constitution would work. Many were especially suspicious about the powers given to the President. The Bill of Rights was the fruit of this skepticism. And George Washington was a Federalist (the party advocating a relatively strong national government, in contrast to the likes of Jefferson.) But he served, then stepped down.
[ 04. September 2008, 21:39: Message edited by: Alogon ]
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
Apparently PT Barnum actually never said this, but it sure rings true: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
No kidding. The McCain/Palin ticket apparently thinks that Americans are dumber than rocks; why else would you put a bold-faced lie everyone already knew about into the middle of your national debut? The only upside is that she opened the door for Biden to take the gloves off.
Which bold-faced lie are we talking about, please?
I think that the VP debate will be...interesting. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I think that Palin's speech was very good for what it was--something to re-energize the Republican base. It seemed to work, unfortunately. Most of the people the cameras caught looked like they'd just gotten a taste of water after crossing a large, wearying desert. Palin told them what they wanted to hear.
I thought the bit with her young daughter smoothing the baby's hair with spit was cute, if embarassing. It was a normal, human thing in the midst of all that fuss.
I *can* imagine Palin as president, but not with a good result. ISTM she could be a deer caught in headlights; or could flounder around, out of her depth; or, judging by some news stories of her past actions, she could be a willful nightmare, banning books, firing people who disagree with her, and ramming the Rep. agenda down our throats.
She and McCain are an interesting study in contrasts. She's very scrappy. He WAS scrappy, mean, angry, and rude, until about 7 months ago. (Meds???) He seems like most of his personality has been removed. I'd thought that much of his nastiness was due to having been a POW, but I understand he was known for that trait clear back to high school.
So...on the Rep side, we're looking at an aging senator and war hero, willing to stay in Iraq for 100 years, who will either be nasty or missing most of who he is. And a relatively inexperienced mayor and governor, who reportedly has sometimes used her power very badly. And an agenda that will be bad for most people and for the planet.
On the Dem side, we've got a relatively inexperienced state and congressional senator, messiah to some, who speaks well and whose heart seems to be in the right place, but who is also ambitious. And a very experienced, aging senator who tends to shoot his mouth off. And an agenda, to the extent that it's been detailed, that could help a lot of people and the planet...if they actually push it through Congress.
The teams are almost mirror images of each other.
Giuliani was creepy. And that whole "drill, baby drill!" chant... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Yes, if you're a liberal with a pregnant unmarried daughter, you're an irresponsible parent. If you're a conservative with a pregnant unmarried daughter, you're just like folks.
And don't forget Dan Quayle (aka Mr. Potato-Head) who, as Vice President running for re-election, spoke of a "poverty of values" that included the acceptance of unwed motherhood, exemplified by a TV character, Murphy Brown.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Which bold-faced lie are we talking about, please?
The "bridge to nowhere" bit.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re "Murphy Brown":
However...women asked Quayle, "so you think Murphy should've had an abortion, then?" Quayle was horrified and backed off.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
That's a good summary of the contrasts and the situation. What I keep coming back to always receives too little discussion: the tenor of the court appointments these two candidates would make respectively. I have the impression that some of the more liberal Supreme Court justices are hanging on by their fingernails in hopes that they can see a sympathetic soul succeed them.
And the Supreme Court is just the tip of the iceburg. Hundreds of lower appellate justices also enjoy their positions thanks to a Presidential nod. And unlike most literal iceburgs nowadays, this one whole iceburg has
become noticeably colder of late towards the rights citizens should cherish.
Many recent Supreme Court decisions have been 5-to-4 and have involved individuals vs. big government or big business. I hope that sometime during the debates, Obama & Biden take some time to discuss these cases, whether we're glad they turned out as they did or we wish they had gone the other way. The next President will tip the balance, and it will probably stay tipped for ten or twenty years.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
What a contrast between the respective convention
delegates! Besides the glaring lack of racial and ethnic diversity, the Republicans seemed to me to be older, more formally attired, and perhaps more prosperous.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Swish
Shipmate
# 8566
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
What a contrast between the respective convention
delegates! Besides the glaring lack of racial and ethnic diversity, the Republicans seemed to me to be older, more formally attired, and perhaps more prosperous.
Greta
Really? Do Cowboy hats count as formal now?
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Sorry Ted. I was concentrating too hard on looking holy.
Posts: 114 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Sep 2004
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
So if Obama loses, it can only be because of racism. I assume this means anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist.
Sanctimonious garbage.
I don;t agree with Obama.
I believe in having at least 2 strong polical parties in the USA.
I don't like the crooks and hacks Obama supports in Chicago. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Is it the idea of "crooks and hacks" that offends you, or just the idea that there are some in Chicago?
I can't imagine a party that doesn't have some "crooks and hacks" as supporting members, or even as elected representatives.
And I don't really see why coming from Chicago is so bad for the country.
Or is it that Republican "crooks and hacks" are clearly good people, while THEIR "crooks and hacks" are clearly sinners?
Please enlighten me as to the reason for your bias.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally Posted by Horseman Bree:
And I don't really see why coming from Chicago is so bad for the country.
Our last governor is in prison, and the current one deserves to be en route. The mayor is the son of the rather infamous Richard J Daley, and is looking to break his dad's record for number of terms. They haven't nailed him directly in anything, but there have been investigations that have gone pretty deeply into his administration.
Obama has no record whatsoever of saying anything against this on the political level, as much good work as he may have done on the social level.
Of course it doesn't mean he's a crook, but as some columnists have observed, his apparent silence does raise some questions about his political commitments.
And I'm probably gonna vote for this guy anyway, mind you. I can just understand why people view his state and city of origin with some apprehension.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
So if Obama loses, it can only be because of racism. I assume this means anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist.
Sanctimonious garbage.
I don;t agree with Obama.
I believe in having at least 2 strong polical parties in the USA.
I don't like the crooks and hacks Obama supports in Chicago.
And i don't like the thought that if i have a major illness it will make me destitute, perhaps for the rest of my life, which would not be the case in any civilised country.
[ 04. September 2008, 23:36: Message edited by: malik3000 ]
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
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agrgurich
Shipmate
# 5724
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Is it the idea of "crooks and hacks" that offends you, or just the idea that there are some in Chicago?
I can't imagine a party that doesn't have some "crooks and hacks" as supporting members, or even as elected representatives.
And I don't really see why coming from Chicago is so bad for the country.
Or is it that Republican "crooks and hacks" are clearly good people, while THEIR "crooks and hacks" are clearly sinners?
Please enlighten me as to the reason for your bias.
I see you are not familiar with the Chicago political machine. Chicago is basically a one party city. Any attempt to reform the city requires opposing the organization Obama has refused to support reform candidates even when they're liberal Democrats. He favors change everywhere except in Chicago where he could help it come about
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Life is a comedy to those who think & a tragedy to those who feel.-Horace Walpole
AJG
Posts: 4478 | From: Michigan's Copper Country | Registered: Apr 2004
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
So if Obama loses, it can only be because of racism. I assume this means anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist.
You'd probably have better luck with this outrage if your fellow Republicans would lay off the racist rhetoric.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
What a contrast between the respective convention
delegates! Besides the glaring lack of racial and ethnic diversity, the Republicans seemed to me to be older, more formally attired, and perhaps more prosperous.
Racial, ethnic and gender diversity were more in evidence on the Dem side (I heard a report on this when driving home today. The Dems had something like 20% black delegates, the Republicans 1.5%; the Dems had more women than men, the Republicans are 2-to-1 men; the Dems had similarly more Latinos, but I forgot the stats. One thing that was NOT true, however, was that there was a noticeable age difference in the delegates to each convention. Both parties averaged somewhere in the mid-50s for the delegates' ages. FWIW.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
So if Obama loses, it can only be because of racism. I assume this means anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist.
You'd probably have better luck with this outrage if your fellow Republicans would lay off the racist rhetoric.
Wow. But hey, at least we know where he stands, right? And it oughta be worth a few more bucks for Obama's coffers, which have taken in $8 million since last night.
Including a little more from me. Ye gods, if someone had told me six months ago I'd be donating to a political campaign, I'd have said they were crazy. And I'm scheduled to call people up and try to get them to vote no on the gay marriage ban.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
So if Obama loses, it can only be because of racism. I assume this means anyone who doesn't vote for Obama is a racist.
No, it means that the vote is now such a no-brainer; a really good, intelligent pair up against a dickhead and a stupid fundie bitch, that if Obama loses, that i could only see it resulting from there being enough racists around who just won't vote for him.
Seriously, McCain/Palin is such an awful combination that they should be 90/10 behind in the polls. Still, USA is 90% christian, so I'd never accuse the general population of having any brains...
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
I don;t agree with Obama.
I believe in having at least 2 strong polical parties in the USA.
I don't like the crooks and hacks Obama supports in Chicago.
Ah, you'd rather support the miltary/industrial complex again. The last few years have worked wonders on that score, eh?
What shape do you think USA's armed forces will be in 2028? You'll be bringing back conscription anytime, I'd say.
Now I really have to change avatars.
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by agrgurich:
I believe in having at least 2 strong polical parties in the USA.
So do I, but it does not follow that the Republican Party must be one of them. "An elephant never forgets." I remain an elephant in that one respect. And what I don't forget is the absurd brouhaha of trying to impeach Clinton. They tied up Congress for nearly two years with a vendetta that they apparently realized from the start would not succeed. The self-styled "Managers" of the process exhibited a revolting hubris and self-importance as though they would all go down in history. Well, maybe they should: I'm for continuing to address every one of those clowns "Manager" until their dying day, as a salute to surreal irrelevance. And when the orgy finally died down, someone asked one of the Republican leaders what he expected this would do to his party's chances in 2000. His reply was that 2000 was two years away and the electorate will have forgotten. Doncha love the irony of elephants praying for amnesia?
Certainly they want me to forget. Probably some of them have forgotten themselves. They blithely keep coming back and asking for our respect and loyalty as though this had never happened. And every time they do so, it's a fresh insult. I for one remember, and I demand an apology before we do any further business.
quote:
I don't like the crooks and hacks Obama supports in Chicago.
Are you referring to the "Chicago Democratic Machine?", as someone on the podium did last night? It no longer exists. And you know what? It was a Democrat who broke it, namely the African-American mayor Harold Washington. Given the vitriol of that fight, I hardly think that Barack Obama, of all people, would have any desire to put Humpty Dumpty together again.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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