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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Hopefully not to drag this thread into a tangent...
But it might be more accurate to say the machine has evolved.
Chicago is still essentially a one-party town, and the clout system still runs things. The mayor (again, the freaking son of Richard J Daley) still wields an incredible amount of power within the city. It's a better machine than it used to be, but I still think it's a machine.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Could Obama have done anything about the Chicago Sleaze Machine without shipwrecking his own political career? Perhaps he decided that wasn't a hill he wanted to die on. Maybe agrgurich would have. Yeah.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Could Obama have done anything about the Chicago Sleaze Machine without shipwrecking his own political career? Perhaps he decided that wasn't a hill he wanted to die on. Maybe agrgurich would have. Yeah.
Fair point, and if he wins strongly, then he can probably sever ties with the sleaze once he's safely established his butt in the executive seat in the oval office. Chicago ain't what it was in the 1950's, so I don't think we'll see a replay of the old Daley/Kennedy collusion (if you want details, read American Pharaoh, a biography of our current mayor's dad).
I think the connection does make him seem less the saintly reformer and more the shrewd player that I believe him to be (and if he's gotten this far without having anything stick to him, that is an accomplishment). Personally, I actually like him more for being clever enough to play the game without being trapped by it. I just wouldn't deny that there's probably more to him in terms of political style than he lets on to national audiences.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
The Huffington Post has a link to video of Palin giving a speech at her old Assembly of God church in which she says that the leaders of the country are doing God's will by sending troops to Iraq. Story and video here.
Doesn't sound like we'll be hearing about Jeremiah Wright in the future.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Hey guys, wanna take a guess what the cost of the outfit that Cindy McCain was wearing Tuesday night was?
How about somewhere between $299,100.00 and $313,000.00?
Or so says Vanity Fair.
Boy, I could do with some of that to toss around. That's more than all four years of my daughter's college tuition combined!
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
...Still, USA is 90% christian, so I'd never accuse the general population of having any brains...
You sure you are not related to this guy by the name of Rich Rosen, who sat on net.christian night after night crusading against all the stupid Christians who all followed Fallwell and hated liberals and had no brains?
Cause, man, you sure sound like him. ie. no flipping idea of what you talk about when it comes to the reality of Christianity but it sure all sounds good in your own head.
Man...that sounds a lot like Fallwell in a way, and Palin.
Intolerance is bitch if comes from an athiest or a Republican.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Foolhearty
Shipmate
# 6196
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Posted
Today's New Yorker has an interesting (though lengthy) article about the Dems' chances of snagging off some of the religious vote.
I hope the writer has his head on straight, because it looks like the G.O.P. is veering somewhere to the far right of Genghis Khan, or however you spell him. And here I thought the Conventional Wisdom was that the way to win elections these days was to go for the center.
McCain and Palin are much further right than Obama is left, it seems to me.
The article is here.
Posts: 2301 | From: Upper right-hand corner | Registered: May 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Yahoo News (AP) says, "John McCain, a POW turned political rebel, vowed Thursday night to vanquish the 'constant partisan rancor' plaguing the nation...."
Isn't that what Bush said 8 years ago? And look how well that worked.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Intolerance is bitch if comes from an athiest or a Republican.
Where's the intolerance in the remark? Do you know what intolerance means?
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
I tried to watch McCain, I really did, but even the protesters couldn't keep me interested, even in the middle of all the rich white people who didn't have their servants around to shield them from such shenanigans trying their best, bless their cold black hearts, to drown them out. I wandered off to sort out my junk drawer about halfway through. However...
I had no idea he was a prisoner of war. Maybe he should use that in his campaign.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Hey guys, wanna take a guess what the cost of the outfit that Cindy McCain was wearing Tuesday night was?
How about somewhere between $299,100.00 and $313,000.00?
I feel like the kid who pointed out that the Emperor was naked -- that dress was UGLY!
If I had her money I'm sure I could find something a lot more attractive than that.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Intolerance is bitch if comes from an athiest or a Republican.
Where's the intolerance in the remark? Do you know what intolerance means?
If you can't see the intolerance in your remark, then you are either trolling or self censoring your critical thinking towards your own remarks. If you used any other sociological identififer but christian in your remark, you'd be flailed for bigotry.
Intolerance exists outside of class, colour, race, politics or creed. Its reasons for existance are as personal as yours for saying what you said, or Fallwell for what he used to say, or Palin for what she says. But, they are still intolerant. And as such, your statement is no better then Palin's about "reading their rights".
And that's one thing I find so fascinating about those who editorialise against the right.....the often lack of compassion back. Its why I prefer to hear Obama's scolding of his team over the first day reaction to Palin's nomination, and his suggestion that kids should be off limits for discussions. And, its maybe why Clinton lost.
If I compared your statement to Clinton, would that be more palatable?
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Is it the idea of "crooks and hacks" that offends you, or just the idea that there are some in Chicago?
I can't imagine a party that doesn't have some "crooks and hacks" as supporting members, or even as elected representatives.
And I don't really see why coming from Chicago is so bad for the country. ...
There aren't just "some" in Chicago. The city -- and most of surrounding Cook County -- is dominated by them.
Criminality is to be assumed on the part of standard-issue Cook County Democrats; they're a bunch of gerrymandering, nepotistic, bribe-seeking, job-selling, this-space-available, will-vote-for-unmarked-cash felons and felons-in-waiting.
The present more-appalling-than-usual governor of Illinois is the son-in-law of the infamous Chicago alderman Richard Mell. As one who's been following both careers for years, I was not surprised that Blago was making such a hash of state government -- even by Illinois standards.
I really don't see voting for someone who came up through that system, although my objections to Obama have more to do with his lack of experience and general leftism.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
re: the blogs with the open letter about Sarah from Anne Kilkenny.
I know Anne, and while her heart is in the right place, she's a bit of a hysterical conspiracy theorist.
She was most assuredly one-sided in what she said. for instance, she talked about increases in government and taxes while Sarah was in charge in Wasilla. but she left out the "70% population growth" part. the increases were also very much in the needs for facilities and services.
the park she mentioned? paid for by private donations and grants. the city just administered it.
also, everyone keeps talking about Wasilla having a small population, which is true. However, again, it is the commercial center for the entire borough, which is somewhere around 60-80 thousand. (I can't remember, it's been a long day)
The big box stores? how the hell is Sarah responsible for that? that's private business. Wasilla, by voter mandate, has shot down any sort of planning and zoning on a number of occasions. this means any business can build anywhere, even if it's a strip club right next door to a daycare center. or a gravel mine in the middle of a residential neighborhood (that is an example based on a real situation)
so the "Valley Trash" joke does come from some reality, believe me.
the "city administrator" came from the city council opting to change from a "strong mayor" form of government to an administrator form of government. Sarah's job became more of a figurehead position after that. but again, that wasn't from her.
and finally, on city hall - Wasilla is one big commercial district serving communities in an area the size of something like ohio. "Wasilla" residents mostly live outside the city limits, also. Wasilla high serves over a thousand students - only for a twon of 5,000? anyway - city hall is in an old house. the council won't allow for the purchase of a more fitting facility, so they have to cram all their departments and everything into this little house - probably 1,500 square feet?
so yes, they renovated twice. as the city created new positions and new departments, it was necessary. And I believe that also came from management, rather than Sarah herself.
Sales tax? like I said, the whole world shops in Wasilla. a sales tax makes oodles of sense. I pay Wasilla sales tax! I figure since I use their streets and cops and whatnot, it's only fair. A property tax is less fair, in that regard.
on the $1,200 refund Sarah proposed and was approved - last winter I spent over $7,000 to heat my home. and it's cheap here. in Fort Yukon, they're paying over $10/gallon for both gasoline and heating oil. the city governments in those more remote places dont think they can keep the power on all winter, as the diesel for the generators is too costly. and former Gov Murkowski got rid of the municipal sharing funding from the state, causing many city governments to literally go bankrupt.
Yes, we need a longer term solution. But we also need a fix right now as there are elders in many villages facing the prospect of being unable to heat their home this winter.
I'd prefer the money go more to rural areas and less to the cities, but it would have been a mess to work out and the issue is critical now as the first frost is only a week or so off.
this will save lives. and it gives the Repubs vindication to continue to bitch about Chavez's handouts up here, which saved lives the last two winters. BOY did that piss off the Rich, White, Redneck division.
so read it all with a grain of salt. I'm not excusing the other stuff, I just dont have enough info on most of it. but this lady left more than half of the story out of each of her examples.
anyway, back to reality.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
[tangent]
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
You sure you are not related to this guy by the name of Rich Rosen, ....
Boy, does that name bring back memories! I remember Rich Rosen. There was a time, back in the early 1980s, where he posted more to Usenet than the next several posters combined.
Nearly all of it was flames. I don't recall his ever posting anything interesting or useful. And his volume was so high, lots of us started wondering if he was an Eliza program.
It's been a long time since I'd thought of him.
[/tangent]
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
comet,
If Gov. Palin became a figurehead, I assume that she ceased developing all that "executive experience" other than, perhaps, the power to make speeches and fire people who pissed her off.
Do you honestly think that a sales tax which does not exempt food is less burdensome to those in the middle to bottom income lavels than is a property tax?
Did she in fact push for a sports center over a sewage treatment plant?
Most mayors have to deal with the impact of the residents of suburbs and smaller surrounding minicipalities. The fact remains that she was not politically responsible for those outsiders.
My town has a populationj of about 130,000 (and isarguably the "hub" for another 400,000). The mayor lives in my neighbohood, and I have chatted with him from time to time. Other than his mayor gig, he's retired. I doubt that he spends more than 10 hours a week on something that is essentially a hobby. The City Manager works like a dog.
I do find it a bit suspicious, too, that Mr. Palin, who has no college degree, landed a job as a substitute teacher.
I know that in some parts of Alaska substitutes can be hired with no degree. I would therefore think that lots of people, due to the seasonal nature of many of Alaska's jobs (to say nothing of its huge unemployment rate) would covet a substitute teacher's job. Lucky Mr. Palin.
Conspiracy theorist, Ms. Kilkenny, didn't even go into that one. If fact, she said that Mr. Palin was her children's favorite substitute teacher. Maybe kids have changed, but I remember well the kind of substitute teachers who were popular when I was in school.
"Grain of salt"? So far, I will stick with "Ring of truth".
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
If you can't see the intolerance in your remark, then you are either trolling or self censoring your critical thinking towards your own remarks. If you used any other sociological identififer but christian in your remark, you'd be flailed for bigotry.
Actually, I've had a re-think on this one, and while I don't go along with "intolerant", it was in bad taste.
If anyone's still reading, I do apologise for the "christians are all dumb" remark. Well out of order.
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by me:
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Tim McVeigh, Michael and me?
quote:
Knocking Bush for being a C student only endeared him to the nation of C students. Knock Palin for having kids, for having a kid who’s having a baby, for anything that is part of her normalness - a normalness that looks very familiar to so many millions of Americans - well, you do this at your own peril.
Pardon the tangent: again. I went back to that link and the Moore quote was gone.
I don't know if I'm more unnerved by jack-booted thugs in Minnesota or at how easy Orwellian editing is these days. At least with the guys with the guns you kind of know what you're up against.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Yahoo News (AP) says, "John McCain, a POW turned political rebel, vowed Thursday night to vanquish the 'constant partisan rancor' plaguing the nation...."
Isn't that what Bush said 8 years ago? And look how well that worked.
I was flabbergasted that the same people who made Palin's speech one long and factually-challenged attack would have the gall to insert a line like that in McCain's speech...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I'm watching the CBS news this morning and Harry Smith just introduced a segment saying, "Sarah Palin has reopened the debate on working mothers." We then went to three women who had been pulled out of somewhere to discuss the subject -- all three were working mothers and all three thought Palin had made the right decision. I guess this is an example of how the media's new darling will be treated.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Yahoo News (AP) says, "John McCain, a POW turned political rebel, vowed Thursday night to vanquish the 'constant partisan rancor' plaguing the nation...."
Isn't that what Bush said 8 years ago? And look how well that worked.
The "constant partisan rancor" is what George Washington, I believe it was him, warned would happen if the nation embraced political parties like it has. At least he understands the people are getting fed up, if the number of us registering independent means anything. I doubt any politician would openly embrace partisan rancor, though it does help out with fund raising just like rancor sells tickets to pro rasslin'.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
If Gov. Palin became a figurehead, I assume that she ceased developing all that "executive experience" other than, perhaps, the power to make speeches and fire people who pissed her off.
Quite. Either she did it, and she has the experience, or she didn't, and she doesn't.
quote:
Do you honestly think that a sales tax which does not exempt food is less burdensome to those in the middle to bottom income lavels than is a property tax?
Middle income levels maybe, but property is also wealth. You can rent it out, mortgage it, sell it, develop it. Income-poor and property-rich is not the same as being poor.
Pretty much by definition people who are on the bottom level of both income and property ownership can't easily pay any tax. Or anything else. Because they are poor. That's what "poor" means. But on the whole, the right wing tends to represent property owners rather than wage earners (that's one of the things we mean by "right wing"). So they will tend to fix taxes so that those who own lots of property but don't have high wages pay less than those who earn wages but have little property.
Is a retiree with only $15,000 a year pension but a $400,000 house, a vacation shack in the woods and $100,000 invested in shares and bonds, richer or poorer than a truck driver who lives in a rented room but gets $35,000 a year and could pull $1200 in a very busy week with overtime? Neither of them is rich, but one will get hurt a hell of a lot more by property taxes and the other more by income and sales taxes.
(& before anyone complains about the numbers the US Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the mean wage for freight truckers in 2006 was $706 a week - which sounds a little on the low side to me, about the same or slightly less than similar jobs pay in the UK, but for most jobs the US is better paid than here. They also say that the average working week is 40.9 hours and the legal maximum 60 hours.)
quote:
My town has a populationj of about 130,000 (and isarguably the "hub" for another 400,000). The mayor lives in my neighbohood, and I have chatted with him from time to time. Other than his mayor gig, he's retired. I doubt that he spends more than 10 hours a week on something that is essentially a hobby. The City Manager works like a dog.
My town has a population of about 8,000,000 and is arguably the hub for all of Europe and most of Africa and the Middle East. We have a part-time Mayor and I wouldn't want to see him as President of our Students Union, never mind the United States of America.
But one of the things I really like about the USA is its local government. I like the way smaller communities can run their own affairs. I like the way that local government can be a route into state government or federal government (that's no longer the case here). I like the way that each state, in some places each city or county, has its own system of local government that it can choose to suit itself, rather than having it imposed on them from above. I think all that is great.
So maybe the town she ran is somewhere that no American who lives south of Kodiak Island had even heard of before the Thursday before last. So maybe she has never been in the Senate or commanded an army. So what? The reason not to vote for her is that she looks like right-wing nut-job and she wants John McCain to be President, not that she comes from a small town in a spacious state.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
So maybe the town she ran is somewhere that no American who lives south of Kodiak Island had even heard of before the Thursday before last. So maybe she has never been in the Senate or commanded an army. So what? The reason not to vote for her is that she looks like right-wing nut-job and she wants John McCain to be President, not that she comes from a small town in a spacious state.
It's fine for her to have come from a small town. It's not fine for her to overstate what it takes to govern a small town and claim that it qualifies her to be president.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
I thought that McCain gave an excellent acceptance speech last night. The tone of his delivery was, for the most part, gentle, confident, and reassuring, without the undertone of cantankerous stridency that we often hear. I appreciated that he actually apologized on behalf of the Republican party for going "astray" and "betraying your trust." He didn't apologize yet for the Clinton impeachment circus, but it's a step in the right direction.
He was big on the "maverick" image and on echoing Obama's call for "change". President Bush was mentioned only once, near the beginning.
A credulous listener would think that we can vote for McCain and we will not get a Republican. This would be a dangerous conclusion. Voters must ask themselves whether the past eight years were a fluke. They were not. Bush couldn't have done the damage he did without a large amen corner of support. As numerous books point out, the Bush II administration is the logical outgrowth of agendas first hatched in the 1970s and carefully pursued ever since. It is systemic. Vote Republican and you should expect to get a Republican: a flat-taxing lackey of corporate interests who doesn't care whether you live or die. To paraphrase their own words on another subject: There is no Republican gene. It is a choice!
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Comper's Child
Shipmate
# 10580
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Posted
I'm now much more fearful about the outcome of this election. I cannot fathom that someone with so little depth could be that "heart-beat away". I've never been fearful of McCain per se, though I am much more liberal than he, but this soccer-mom nut case scares the bejesus out of me.
I believe our executive branch should be made up of people we look up to. I don't want them to be "just like me" as I'm not capable of running a nation.
Posts: 2509 | From: Penn's Greene Countrie Towne | Registered: Oct 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
It's fine for her to have come from a small town. It's not fine for her to overstate what it takes to govern a small town and claim that it qualifies her to be president.
I marvel at the partisan dishonesty that says with a straight face that she's the only one qualified to be POTUS because she's the only one of the four to have had "executive experience." The thing that rankles is that they must understand that no-one is going to take that idiocy seriously, but they shovel it anyway. It's really insulting.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
I thought that McCain gave an excellent acceptance speech last night. The tone of his delivery was, for the most part, gentle, confident, and reassuring, without the undertone of cantankerous stridency that we often hear. I appreciated that he actually apologized on behalf of the Republican party for going "astray" and "betraying your trust." He didn't apologize yet for the Clinton impeachment circus, but it's a step in the right direction.
He was big on the "maverick" image and on echoing Obama's call for "change". President Bush was mentioned only once, near the beginning.
A credulous listener would think that we can vote for McCain and we will not get a Republican. This would be a dangerous conclusion. Voters must ask themselves whether the past eight years were a fluke. They were not. Bush couldn't have done the damage he did without a large amen corner of support. As numerous books point out, the Bush II administration is the logical outgrowth of agendas first hatched in the 1970s, carefully pursued ever since, and they're not finished with us yet. It is systemic. Vote Republican and you should expect to get a Republican: a flat-taxing lackey of corporate interests who doesn't care whether you live or die.
To paraphrase their own words on another subject: There is no Republican gene. It is a choice! And the Republican party is still where McCain has still chosen to be.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
It's not fine for her to overstate what it takes to govern a small town and claim that it qualifies her to be president.
quote:
In 1992, the Democratic Party nominated Bill Clinton, a 47-year-old governor of a small state, to be President of the United States.
(I confess I plagiarized this; fuck the attribution.)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
In 1992, the Democratic Party nominated Bill Clinton, a 47-year-old governor of a small state, to be President of the United States.
Which reminds me, Republicans at the time declared that Arkansas was such a minor state that "Governor of Arkansas" on one's resume should be dismissed as "irrelevant." Maybe the Democrats should dredge one of those statements up. Or maybe not: Monica aside, he didn't turn out too badly in the White House.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Or maybe not: Monica aside, he didn't turn out too badly in the White House.
[He more than held his own. (sorry ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )]
I tend to agree which is why, ISTM, Palin isn't likely to be the Anti-Christ.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
quote:
In 1992, the Democratic Party nominated Bill Clinton, a 47-year-old governor of a small state, to be President of the United States.
Which reminds me, Republicans at the time declared that Arkansas was such a minor state that "Governor of Arkansas" on one's resume should be dismissed as "irrelevant." Maybe the Democrats should dredge one of those statements up. Or maybe not: Monica aside, he didn't turn out too badly in the White House.
While we can agree to disagree on what kind of POTUS Bill was (I think he was lucky to have been followed by such a complete buffoon. My cat would look good next to GW's presidency), your main point is well-taken.
I think Michael Kinsley pointed out that, if the opposition candidate has been a governor, you say that they have no foreign policy experience; if they have legislative experience, you say that they have never run anything themselves; and if they have both, you say that they are a career politician. These phone-it-in dismissals of the candidates are pretty tiresome to my way of thinking...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
These phone-it-in dismissals of the candidates are pretty tiresome to my way of thinking...
Ain't that the truth. Especially as it is no accident, but they actually sit around and think about how to cover all the bases no matter what the truth had been. E.g. if Obama visits wounded in the hospital, he is politicizing the war, and if he doesn't visit them, he doesn't care about our troops.
In retrospect, all I came away with from the Republican Convention was their attitude of smug contempt.
quote:
4. Have mercy upon us, O LORD, have mercy, *
for we have had more than enough of contempt,
5. Too much of the scorn of the indolent rich, *
and of the derision of the proud.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Or maybe not: Monica aside, he didn't turn out too badly in the White House.
[He more than held his own. (sorry )]
I tend to agree which is why, ISTM, Palin isn't likely to be the Anti-Christ.
Perhaps, but I would hope I could say something more positive about my candidate than "Hey! At least she's not the Anti-Christ!"
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
It's not fine for her to overstate what it takes to govern a small town and claim that it qualifies her to be president.
quote:
In 1992, the Democratic Party nominated Bill Clinton, a 47-year-old governor of a small state, to be President of the United States.
(I confess I plagiarized this; fuck the attribution.)
Whoever it comes from, it doesn't hold up well. Let's compare Clinton's resume prior to taking office to what Palin's will be in January 09.
Georgetown
Rhodes scholar
Yale law
Professor, U of Arkansas
Arkansas Attorney General
Arkansas Governor, 2 years, 10 years
(Arkansas population in 1990: 2.3 million)
University of Idaho
Wasilla City Council, 6 years
Wasilla Mayor, 6 years
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
Alaska Governor, 2 years
(Alaska population: 670,000)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Actually, according to an article I read yesterday, Palin attended something like six colleges over six years. The article claimed that as of yet nobody was really sure why she transferred so many times.
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
And here's the article.
[ 05. September 2008, 16:58: Message edited by: Bullfrog. ]
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Or maybe not: Monica aside, he didn't turn out too badly in the White House.
[He more than held his own. (sorry )]
I tend to agree which is why, ISTM, Palin isn't likely to be the Anti-Christ.
Perhaps, but I would hope I could say something more positive about my candidate than "Hey! At least she's not the Anti-Christ!"
But, as Josephine noted earlier in this thread, it appears to be more than the dingbat right is willing to acknowledge about Obama, which I think is what mjg was playing off...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
quote:
Originally posted by mjg:
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
Or maybe not: Monica aside, he didn't turn out too badly in the White House.
[He more than held his own. (sorry )]
I tend to agree which is why, ISTM, Palin isn't likely to be the Anti-Christ.
Perhaps, but I would hope I could say something more positive about my candidate than "Hey! At least she's not the Anti-Christ!"
But, as Josephine noted earlier in this thread, it appears to be more than the dingbat right is willing to acknowledge about Obama, which I think is what mjg was playing off...
--Tom Clune
Funny, but what of the non-dingbat right (assuming such an entity actually exists)?
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Whoever it comes from, it doesn't hold up well. Let's compare Clinton's resume prior to taking office to what Palin's will be in January 09.
Georgetown
Rhodes scholar
Yale law
Professor, U of Arkansas
Arkansas Attorney General
Arkansas Governor, 2 years, 10 years
(Arkansas population in 1990: 2.3 million)
University of Idaho
Wasilla City Council, 6 years
Wasilla Mayor, 6 years
Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission
Alaska Governor, 2 years
(Alaska population: 670,000)
I've already pointed out I think Clinton is underrated by some so all I'm willing to say now is
PIG SOOEY.
(sp?)
They say that a lot around here but I still don't know what it means.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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IconiumBound
Shipmate
# 754
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Posted
The McCain acceptance speech of last night was shallow and dull. As someone has noted on this board, McCain seems to have lost energy (even if that's an issue he likes) in the last month. Apparently his present jailors, RNC, have to keep him in his new cell so all he can talk about is his old cell.
Palin has caught the Republican's fancy precisely because she has energy. The trick will be if her energy can be reflected onto McCain and if she doesn't go down in flames once reporters are allowed to interview her.
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bullfrog.:
And here's the article.
And yet, despite that, she has what matters in an election - voter appeal. What red-blooded male isn't going to vote for MILF of the year?
Some great stuff coming out of polls, showing that Obama's convention bounce lead is about to be all given back.
More importantly, in the real prediction market, the money for McCain has been huge in the past two days. Obama has gone from 60.7 to 56.7. This is a huge move and the first time the odds for Obama have dropped below 59 for 3/4 months or more.
Dems, be afraid, be very, very afraid.
The number one chance for the Dems - the Veep debate - is a sure loser. Biden will kick her arse and she'll get the sympathy vote.
Anyone know how to build a nuclear shelter?
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
Anyone know how to build a nuclear shelter?
I believe you mean NUCULAR shelter...
--Tom Clune
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I'm watching the CBS news this morning and Harry Smith just introduced a segment saying, "Sarah Palin has reopened the debate on working mothers." We then went to three women who had been pulled out of somewhere to discuss the subject -- all three were working mothers and all three thought Palin had made the right decision. I guess this is an example of how the media's new darling will be treated.
That's interesting, because watching the 3 nightly news broadcasts last night, they all seemed to want to jump on the bandwagon of Palin being a big change in the electin etc. etc., but CBS was definately the biggest one reving up that line of thinking, IMHO.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
Anyone know how to build a nuclear shelter?
I believe you mean NUCULAR shelter...
--Tom Clune
One of the best cartoons I ever saw on this issue was a single frame in the New Yorker without caption. It was a picture of a security gate in a chain link fence, with some sort of scientific-looking facility in the background. A sign by the gate read "No one who says nuculer admitted beyond this point."
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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GoodCatholicLad
Shipmate
# 9231
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Posted
The problem I have with all these speeches at this convention in St. Paul is their. insistence on drilling for more oil and some how that's going to solve our problems. I thought being a conservative was about not spending beyond one's means, that thrift and being cautious about spending was a virtue. Instead I hear DRILL, DRILL, DRILL. Nothing is said about alternative fuels, smaller vehicles etc.
This reminds me of an analogy of someone who has 6 credit cards and every one of them is beyond their spending limits, they are completely maxed out but instead of trying to get the debt down by getting another job, save all they can, they instead apply for more credit.
We have been in this war for over 5 years, yet this president has never once spoke of conservation, thrift or sacrifice. None of what I saw at this convention is really about traditional conservative values. I admit I didn't see McCain's speech I saw my DVD of North by Northwest instead.
Posts: 1234 | From: San Francisco California | Registered: Mar 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Is it the idea of "crooks and hacks" that offends you, or just the idea that there are some in Chicago?
There aren't just "some" in Chicago. The city -- and most of surrounding Cook County -- is dominated by them.
Criminality is to be assumed on the part of standard-issue Cook County Democrats; they're a bunch of gerrymandering, nepotistic, bribe-seeking, job-selling, this-space-available, will-vote-for-unmarked-cash felons and felons-in-waiting.
While I don't disagree with your assessment of Chicago politicians in general, you might be interested in what FactCheck.org says about Obama's influence in Illinois politics:
quote:
In 1998 in the Illinois Senate, Obama cosponsored an ethics overhaul that bars elected officials from using their campaign funds for personal use and and was called the the first major overhaul of Illinois campaign and ethics laws in 25 years. It also bans fundraisers in the state Capitol during legislative sessions. Obama’s Republican cosponsor Kirk Dillard even appeared in an Obama ad last summer describing Obama’s skills working with members of both parties to get legislation passed.
Based on this, it seems to me inappropriate to doubt Obama's integrity simply because he's from Chicago (a city well known for corruption, especially among Democrats), unless you also doubt Palin's integrity simply because she's from Alaska (a state well known for corruption, especially among Republicans).
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Hee. Speaking of cartoons, I'm reminded of one that came out while the Republicans were digging out every speck of dirt they could find about Clinton's background. It had a microphone in front of a grade school lunch lady as she said that Billy never did finish his peas.
From the article about Palin's education quote:
According to a biography — "Sarah" by Kaylene Johnson — Palin and three friends went to the University of Hawaii at Hilo after graduation from high school in Alaska in 1982. But they left after a few weeks because of the constant rain there, the book said.
Hee, again! I was a frivolous student but even I never quit a college because the tanning was bad.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GoodCatholicLad:
The problem I have with all these speeches at this convention in St. Paul is their. insistence on drilling for more oil and some how that's going to solve our problems. I thought being a conservative was about not spending beyond one's means, that thrift and being cautious about spending was a virtue. Instead I hear DRILL, DRILL, DRILL. Nothing is said about alternative fuels, smaller vehicles etc.
I was amused by pictures in the newspaper of the Alaskan delegates wearing white hardhats emblazoned with "Dig here! Dig now!"
My feelings about drilling in the ANWR aside... why would anyone wear that on their HEADS?
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
Makes sense to me. Who wouldn't pick balmy Idaho over over the bitter, depressing, tempestuous climate of Hawaii?
Greta
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
I marvel at the partisan dishonesty that says with a straight face that she's the only one qualified to be POTUS because she's the only one of the four to have had "executive experience."
well, she is our governor. and that is most assuredly not a figurehead position. Two years may not be much, but it is experience.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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