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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Purgatory: The political junkie POTUS prediction thread
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malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I'd probably end up voting Cynthia McKinney if not Obama (if I had a vote).
Not if you had lived in Cynthia's congressional district, you wouldn't...
I know people who live her district who supported her, intelligent people whom I respect.
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God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
You know, it would be more convincing when you claimed that libertarianism is about more than just complaining about income tax if you didn't spend two paragraphs out of a four paragraph post complaining about it.
I was not complaining but, rather, answering your one specific point about libertarians, which was all about the income tax.
quote:
The basic objections to libertarianism are actually the sort that a sensible right wing person would make. Take recall notices. ...Such legislation - and it is ubiquitous - makes us all a lot safer. Now libertarianism is not merely opposed to such legislation as unnecessary but regards it as oppressive. Given the choice between passing a law which imposes burdens on business and a small child choking to death on a piece of plastic libertarians opt unerringly for the dead toddler as the price of freedom. ...
You're usually more sensible than this, Gildas. I'm a little surprised. I'm in favor of dead toddlers? Please.
I have no objection to recall notices per se. I think they're a good thing. I don't, however, have a lot of confidence in the government's ability to keep us safe. An agency like Underwriters Laboratory generally, in my experience, does a better job than a state bureaucracy.
quote:
...Lord Young...remarks in his memoirs that an effective regulatory framework is necessary for the flourishing of capitalism. ...
No argument there. But we may, I think, reasonably disagree about the nature of that framework.
Ross
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
I'd probably end up voting Cynthia McKinney if not Obama (if I had a vote).
Not if you had lived in Cynthia's congressional district, you wouldn't...
I know people who live her district who supported her, intelligent people whom I respect.
Irony of ironies, I lived in her district for many years! The only Democrat that I ever voted for was Denise Majette in the primary where she beat Cynthia!
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
New Yorker, once again you have completely missed the point. The Democratic Congress has, at great personal sacrifice, united the country to an unprecedented degree...
[sarcasm on] I totally agree! [/sarcasm off]
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Alfred E. Neuman
What? Me worry?
# 6855
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
Now, be so kind as to answer my question: quote:
Originally posted by Gort:
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
Do you really believe that crap? ...
Specifically, what "crap"?
The whole absurd rant that I quoted originally. I didn't realize that placing a paragraph in bold before my remark would create so much uncertainty in my intent. Sorry to be so obscure.
Ah, the old "opinions are like assholes..." position. Thanks for confirming my suspicion.
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--Formerly: Gort--
Posts: 12954 | Registered: May 2004
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
Comet, I'm curious - different how? [...] I'd be interested to learn what sort of things you heard that disappointed you, or what you would have expected to hear but didn't.
pretty much as I said at the beginning - all that "culture war" shit had never been high on her agenda, here. yes, she was pro-pipeline and I'm not sure I am. and she's pro opening ANWR, which I'm not, but if she wasn't it would have been political suicide.
But now, she's playing the conservative super-mommy role which is making my stomach turn. We all knew where she stood on the hot-button bullshit, but it didn't matter because she focused on the stuff that really counted.
abortion, creationism, etc - all null points. she was much more concerned with cleaning up after the good old boy club had their way with our state.
Now, all she can do is blab on and on about the hard-core right wing stuff. if you go back through the news files here, you can see that she actually pissed off the hard core right wing and walked a pretty treacherous middle road. it was so refreshing, because all the partisan stuff is so old. and nothing ever gets done!
Sarah came into office and got shit done. lots of it. her budget balancing was fair and she was the queen of slashing pork. it was beautiful to see. us newsies often found ourselves just sitting back and saying "whoa!" she's got brass balls and got all those whining old white guys in their place.
now, she's playing the ultra-partisan. the exact opposite of what she has been here.
Now, she's part of making it worse. once upon a time she was part of making it better.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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IconiumBound
Shipmate
# 754
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Posted
Looks as if Sarah got the same sort of "conditioning" that McCain knuckled under to.
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
The weird thing is that they've already got the far right sewn up. Who else are the far right going to vote for, Obama? It is to laugh. What McCain and Palin need to be targeting is the swing vote in the middle. The more they hammer on the far right end of the spectrum, the more they drive the middle into Obama's lap, I'd think.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
They needed to excite the base to get them to turn out. It's no secret that a good chunk of the base was going to have to hold their nose to vote for McCain, and that a number would probably stay home.
That's why Rove and Bush vetoed the choices of Lieberman or Tom Kaine. Palin is more their kind of candidate. And she's living up to the role they expect her to play.
The question will be whether they can maintain that excitement in the base without turning off the moderates attracted by the 'maverick' McCain.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
For all the new, and decidedly angry rhetoric about change, specifics seem to be glaringly absent. They are mad as hell about pork, but who isn't? For that matter, why is pork suddently the most serious problem facing the U.S.?
Congress as a whole has always been unpopular, but voters tend to love their representatives primarily because they channel government spending that specifically benefits their constitutents.
Interstingly, of the top 25 states that enjoy a disproportionate share of federal largesse, 21 fall in the red (or dark pink} end of the specctrum. I think that the South might find itself suddently subsisting on a much leaner diet when pork is eliminated.
Beyond the anti-pork battle cry, all I have heard from Palin/McCain is a promise that they are going to go to Washington and, like Superman and Wonder Woman, beat up all those bad guys.
We will have to buy further issues of the comic to find out exactly how they will unearth the evil doers and how they will bring them to justice .
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Sarah came into office and got shit done. lots of it. her budget balancing was fair and she was the queen of slashing pork.
Not according to the top name on the ticket.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
They needed to excite the base to get them to turn out. It's no secret that a good chunk of the base was going to have to hold their nose to vote for McCain, and that a number would probably stay home.
I don't think it's a fear that they'd stay home on election day so much as they'd merely vote, without working during the preceding two months. The fundies are the foot soldiers in the Republican party, those who spend hours ringing doorbells, dialing telephones, and stuffing envelopes. Such is their ordained place in life. Why else do you suppose their preachers train them so assiduously to obey orders from on high?
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
"slashing pork" ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
If Palin and McCain are elected, I do not think that they will have time to deal with pork.
They will insteaqd have to focus on their real change priorities: lowering corporate taxes including those on obesely profitable oil companies, overturning Roe v. Wade, making sure that tax relief principally and permanently benefits the wealthy, insuring and hastening the demise of Social Security and Medicare, drilling here and now to lessen our depencence on oil, and rattling nukes in the direction of Iran, North Korea, Russia - maybe even those damn French, and all this just for starters. Meanwhile, they must refute all those whiners who claim that the economy is anything but healthy.
Greta
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
Pork.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
"slashing pork" ?
"Pork" (from "pork-barrel politics") refers to federal spending that specifically benefits one's own state or congressional district or special interest group over the country as a whole. In general, things that benefit MY peeps are a good and reasonable use of the federal tax dollar; things that benefit YOUR peeps are "pork."
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Thanks - so this would be like when the government awards an important defence contract to a factory that just happens to be in a marginal consistuency of their own party ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
It's not party-specific; both parties engage in pork in a sort of quid-pro-quo manner. I get federal funds to build a fighter plane unwanted by any of the armed forces at a factory in my state (this really happened), while you get federal funds to build a bridge to nowhere that was totally unneded in your state (this nearly happened). Wheee! Then we each complain that the other is engaging in pork-barrel politics, and vow to cut it out when we get re-elected. At which point the cycle starts over again. Ain't representative democracy FUN?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
They will insteaqd have to focus on their real change priorities... overturning Roe v. Wade
I'm not sure they really want to do that. As the biggest desideratum of the religious right, the hope of overturning Roe v. Wade is what keeps them loyal and hard at work. To sustain that hope, the party has to take steps in that direction, like appointing "conservative" judges who will rule laws constitutional that gradually chip away at freedom of choice. But if that dream fully came true, then what? Heaven forbid-- people might start voting their pocketbooks instead of "cultural issues". No, the policy off-the record will probably be to approach the goal without reaching it, like a line asymptotic to zero.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Lynn MagdalenCollege
Shipmate
# 10651
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
But now, she's playing the conservative super-mommy role which is making my stomach turn. We all knew where she stood on the hot-button bullshit, but it didn't matter because she focused on the stuff that really counted.
To some degree I think of campaigning as "life outside life" - everybody winds up pandering at some point. The goal, imho, is to stay as close to your core self/values as you can and get the job done in terms of being elected. Because if you're completely honest and the lying bastard running against you says more of the stuff the electorate wants to hear, it doesn't matter that you would have done a better job because you just lost the election. So I don't look at Obama in the campaign, Biden in the campaign, McCain in the campaign, or Palin in the campaign so much as I try to look at who they were before the campaign, because that's closer to who we're actually electing.
But yeah, if you know someone moderately well and you suddenly see this "persona", that's very off-putting - even if you understand the necessity.
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Erin & Friend; Been there, done that; Ruth musical
Posts: 6263 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2005
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
They will insteaqd have to focus on their real change priorities... overturning Roe v. Wade
I'm not sure they really want to do that. As the biggest desideratum of the religious right, the hope of overturning Roe v. Wade is what keeps them loyal and hard at work. To sustain that hope, the party has to take steps in that direction, like appointing "conservative" judges who will rule laws constitutional that gradually chip away at freedom of choice. But if that dream fully came true, then what? Heaven forbid-- people might start voting their pocketbooks instead of "cultural issues". No, the policy off-the record will probably be to approach the goal without reaching it, like a line asymptotic to zero.
McCain just about swore, during that televised forum at Rick Warren's church, to see Roe v. Wade overturned. He has made no bones about appointing Supreme Court judges that will vote to reverse it. The margin in the current Court is so narrow that one more conservative judge will tip the scales. The ramifications of a conservative-dominated Supreme Court are widespread and long-lasting (in that they serve for life).
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Yes and it's terrifying to think what other rights they will try to take away.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
So ...
The choice of Palin will encourage Republicans (who might otherwise have to hold their nose) to vote McCain for President. Perhaps they expect him to die?
Roe v Wade? If the Supreme Court decision is reversed, doesn't that return control to the states? Which would create an abortion market, I guess. Those who could afford it would cross state lines for abortions in those states which would continue to allow it. That would be the majority, I guess. Those who could not would go for what we used to call "back street abortions" in the UK. With asssociated big medical and legal risks. A kind of tax on the poor.
Its a tangent more suited for DH but I fail to see how that makes anything better. Promising to politicise the Supreme Court just looks like vote-catching. It's not exactly a clear moral move, is it? Looks pretty muddy to me.
(If this tangent has life, I'll be happy to copy this post to DH.)
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
Originally posted by Rossweise:
quote:
quote:
The basic objections to libertarianism are actually the sort that a sensible right wing person would make. Take recall notices. ...Such legislation - and it is ubiquitous - makes us all a lot safer. Now libertarianism is not merely opposed to such legislation as unnecessary but regards it as oppressive. Given the choice between passing a law which imposes burdens on business and a small child choking to death on a piece of plastic libertarians opt unerringly for the dead toddler as the price of freedom. ...
You're usually more sensible than this, Gildas. I'm a little surprised. I'm in favor of dead toddlers? Please.
I have no objection to recall notices per se. I think they're a good thing. I don't, however, have a lot of confidence in the government's ability to keep us safe. An agency like Underwriters Laboratory generally, in my experience, does a better job than a state bureaucracy.
Of course, you are not in favour of dead toddlers. Thank you for demonstrating my point. The moment you are confronted with a specific issue you immediately react like a sensible social democrat. Toddlers chocking to death vs. the free and unfettered market. Suddenly the free and unfettered market doesn't look like all that and a bag of crisps. We could do this across a range of issues. If I said: "The American Labour market must be de-regulated because flexible labour markets are the key to competition in a competitive globalised market" you would be nodding vigorously. If I said: "It's cool that employers can sack a single parent for taking a couple of days off at short notice to look after a sick child" you'd be less enthusiastic. If I were to say that "the role of the state is to protect property rights" you'd be in complete agreement. If I were to say "it is acceptable for a grain merchant to destroy a cargo during a scarcity to drive up prices", again, you'd be less sure.
The rhetoric of libertarianism is cracking stuff - let freedom roll and all that. The reality is somewhat less inspiring. Which is why, as I say, I don't think that libertarians have really thought things through.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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eeGAD
Wandering Stowaway
# 4675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Beyond the anti-pork battle cry, all I have heard from Palin/McCain is a promise that they are going to go to Washington and, like Superman and Wonder Woman, beat up all those bad guys.
We will have to buy further issues of the comic to find out exactly how they will unearth the evil doers and how they will bring them to justice .
As one who is currently studying comic book heroes the way some people study history, I'd like to continue your metaphor, adding that the Bad Guys never see justice. They get thrown into a jail or asylum only to break out in the next issue. When Batman "quit' for a while, the Joker had no foe, and therefore "retired" until Batman returned.
I don't need a superhero going after the bad guys. I want an honest cop, like Commissioner Jim Gordon, whom I can respect and who I know is trying to make things better by working within the system. I'm an idealist after all.
The last time McCain ran for president I was looking forward to voting for him, but alas, he didn't get that far. Now it seems like he's a different guy. How is that? I've always voted, but considered myself a political novice. This year I'm really making every effort to make an informed decision. McCain, however, has me very confused.
eeG
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You don't fix faith. It fixes you. - Shepherd Book
Posts: 976 | From: The Land of Mary | Registered: Jun 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by eeGAD:
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
Beyond the anti-pork battle cry, all I have heard from Palin/McCain is a promise that they are going to go to Washington and, like Superman and Wonder Woman, beat up all those bad guys.
We will have to buy further issues of the comic to find out exactly how they will unearth the evil doers and how they will bring them to justice .
As one who is currently studying comic book heroes the way some people study history, I'd like to continue your metaphor, adding that the Bad Guys never see justice. They get thrown into a jail or asylum only to break out in the next issue. When Batman "quit' for a while, the Joker had no foe, and therefore "retired" until Batman returned.
I don't need a superhero going after the bad guys. I want an honest cop, like Commissioner Jim Gordon, whom I can respect and who I know is trying to make things better by working within the system. I'm an idealist after all.
The last time McCain ran for president I was looking forward to voting for him, but alas, he didn't get that far. Now it seems like he's a different guy. How is that? I've always voted, but considered myself a political novice. This year I'm really making every effort to make an informed decision. McCain, however, has me very confused.
eeG
Moreover, even in those stories where the Bad Guys really do get their just desserts it is a long time coming: eight years maybe?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The choice of Palin will encourage Republicans (who might otherwise have to hold their nose) to vote McCain for President. Perhaps they expect him to die?
It's not all Republicans, just the social conservatives. The primary process revealed how divided the Republican party really is.
They may or may not expect him to die, but perhaps they wouldn't otherwise bother to turn out to vote; or as another poster above mentioned, they wouldn't give so much money or man phone banks etc. That is, not having their extra work would cause some others not to bother to vote. It isn't about taking voters from Obama - no one who considers Obama would be impressed by the choice of Palin. It's about turnout.
Politicizing the supreme court has been a hallmark of Republican politics for 30 years or more.
[ETA 'not having']
[ 10. September 2008, 12:32: Message edited by: Choirboy ]
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
When, exactly, did James Dobson endorse McCain? Was it right after he picked Palin? Or right after the convention?
I think most of us seriously underestimate Dobson's influence. I know I have done so, thinking of him primarily as a peddler of some of the worst books on child-rearing out there. But that's just how he got started. He's now a power broker, and an extremely powerful one, who controls a pretty substantial block of votes.
It would be interesting to see if you could tease out a "Dobson bounce" in the polls. 'Cause I'd bet it's there.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Wood
The Milkman of Human Kindness
# 7
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboy:
The primary process revealed how divided the Republican party really is.
Surely they'd have taken a lot longer to settle on McCain (like the Democrats did with Obama) if they were really that divided.
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Narcissism.
Posts: 7842 | From: Wood Towers | Registered: Apr 2001
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:
lowering corporate taxes
This is good. It enables US companies to be more competitive. We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.
quote:
including those on obesely profitable oil companies
Why pick on oil companies? Why not pick on obesely high entertainment industries or sports figures or government income via taxes?
quote:
overturning Roe v. Wade
For the sake of their salvation, I certainly hope so!
quote:
making sure that tax relief principally and permanently benefits the wealthy, insuring and hastening the demise of Social Security and Medicare
Do you really believe this?
quote:
drilling here and now to lessen our depencence on oil
Let's see: the problem is a supply of oil? Why not drill for more oil?
quote:
and rattling nukes in the direction of Iran, North Korea, Russia
Who has said anything about this? You really shouldn't read the Daily Kos or listen to NPR!
quote:
maybe even those damn French
A few years ago I would have thought sending an ICBM into the Elysee would not be a bad idea (just kidding!) but now the French are no longer anti-American (or not as stridently so).
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wood:
Surely they'd have taken a lot longer to settle on McCain (like the Democrats did with Obama) if they were really that divided.
Not necessarily. The Republican primary system gives all the delegates in each state to the winner of the primary. The Democrats split their delegates proportionally. In fact, the Republican system is designed to allow for an early winner so that the party can unify around a single candidate quickly in the process.
I'm not totally sure, but I think if the Democrats had been playing under Republican rules they might have had a different nominee.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
Precisely. In retrospect, Clinton's so-called "big state" strategy is somewhat unwise in the Democratic primary, but would do the trick in the Republican primary.
But I also thought the great search early on to find the 'true conservative' candidate showed a fracturing of social conservatives and business conservatives. The inability to coalesce around Romney or Huckabee or Thompson, and the winner-take-all primaries, allowed McCain to win the nomination without connecting with the social conservative base.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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Choirboy
Shipmate
# 9659
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Posted
Sorry to double post - I guess the 'big state' strategy didn't work so well for Guiliani. But then, all that means is you can't ignore Iowa and New Hampshire.
Posts: 2994 | From: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA | Registered: Jun 2005
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IconiumBound
Shipmate
# 754
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Posted
I am getting very tired of hearing about the strange views of Sarah Palin. She is a bait dangled out to the Democrats to vent their spleen upon. And Democrats have swallowed it. While there is some concern should Mcain be elected and die prematurely (everybody gets to 100 these days) she should not be the focus of Democratic attacks.
The real focus should be on McCain. Does he agree with the views and actions of his nomonee? If he does the he should be the point of the attacks. If he doesn't then wht did he nominate her in the first place.
McCain is the one we want to defeat.
Posts: 1318 | From: Philadelphia, PA, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
There's an interesting article in the Washington Post today that hits on an aspect of what has been bothering me about this campaign.
Certainly, the McCain/Palin bald-faced lie about Palin killing the bridge to no-where over Washington howls of protest is a whopper. Given that the only thing she claims to have done in characterizing her accomplishments is a known and documented lie, it is truly disconcerting.
But I saw the comments that McCain made that Obama continues to characterize as defining rich as making $5M (MM for our British brethren) per year and being willing to stay in Iraq for 100 years. And both of these cornerstones of Obama's stump speech are also what I would call lies.
Why, when the two parties differ on so much substantively this cycle, do they need to try to pull the wool over our eyes? Is it just that, as the saying goes, you know a politician is lying if you see his lips moving?
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
Certainly, the McCain/Palin bald-faced lie about Palin killing the bridge to no-where over Washington howls of protest is a whopper. Given that the only thing she claims to have done in characterizing her accomplishments is a known and documented lie, it is truly disconcerting.
The other thing she brags about -- selling the governor's jet on e-Bay -- is also a lie. She listed it on e-Bay, couldn't sell it that way, and the state ended up hiring a broker to sell it.
quote:
Why, when the two parties differ on so much substantively this cycle, do they need to try to pull the wool over our eyes? Is it just that, as the saying goes, you know a politician is lying if you see his lips moving?
If you check FactCheck.org regularly, that would seem to be true. They regularly point out lies, misrepresentations, distortions, and the like, by both candidates and both campaigns.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
If you check FactCheck.org regularly, that would seem to be true. They regularly point out lies, misrepresentations, distortions, and the like, by both candidates and both campaigns.
Recognizing my innumerable fans are just waiting for me to weigh in on this I have to say they seem more even-handed then some.
A detour onto the low road?
quote:
But Swift argued that Obama's "pig" comment is only the latest in a series of derogatory remarks from his campaign, which after going against Clinton in the primaries, should "have figured out how to respectfully" debate a female candidate.
"This is just the same old low road," Swift said.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
"Put lipstick on a pig" is an old metaphor for dressing up something ugly, and McCain used it against Clinton earlier this year. I don't see what the problem is, especially considering that Obama was talking about McCain's ideas, not his running mate.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
The average American dumbass will only think of her speech about the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull and figure that's what Obama was talking about.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I wish the average American dumbass would just stay home Nov. 4. I know, I know, we can't test people for having a brain before they vote, but still ...
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I wish the average American dumbass would just stay home Nov. 4. I know, I know, we can't test people for having a brain before they vote, but still ...
Well, tough. I'm voting whether you like it or not.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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CorgiGreta
Shipmate
# 443
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Posted
New Yorker, ny dear,
I simply don't have the time nor energy (to say nothing of typing and proofreading skills) to fully debate all your points. I shall try to touch upon a couple of things however.
Comparing relative corporate tax rates among nations is by nature an extremely complex undertaking. Suffice it to say that the studies of which I am aware (neither through the popular media nor NPR) conclude that the U.S. corporate tax system system is comparable to that of other major developed nations.
As to Social Security, private accounts (favored by Sen. McCain) will clearly drain money from the traditional system. They will do nothiing to insure its survival. This is one bit of Republican double speak that the public saw for what it was - an attempt to cause the program to "wither on the vine" (thank you, Newt).
Greta
[ 10. September 2008, 21:03: Message edited by: CorgiGreta ]
Posts: 3677 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
A few years ago I would have thought sending an ICBM into the Elysee would not be a bad idea (just kidding!) but now the French are no longer anti-American (or not as stridently so).
Would this have been when they tried to tell us our evidence for WMDs in Iraq was inconclusive at best? I'm sure they see the error of their ways now. We really showed them.
Except...oh, never mind.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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New Yorker
Shipmate
# 9898
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
A few years ago I would have thought sending an ICBM into the Elysee would not be a bad idea (just kidding!) but now the French are no longer anti-American (or not as stridently so).
Would this have been when they tried to tell us our evidence for WMDs in Iraq was inconclusive at best? I'm sure they see the error of their ways now. We really showed them.
Except...oh, never mind.
Actually, the French, if I recall correctly, agreed that Iraq had WMDs, they just did not want us to invade. Later we learned that several high-ranking Frenchie political types had taken large payments from Iraq.
Posts: 3193 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2005
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The Atheist
Arrogant Bastard
# 12067
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IconiumBound:
The real focus should be on McCain. Does he agree with the views and actions of his nomonee? If he does the he should be the point of the attacks. If he doesn't then wht did he nominate her in the first place.
McCain is the one we want to defeat.
But Palin might be what hands McCain victory.
Huge swing to McCain of white women.
Posts: 2044 | From: Auckland | Registered: Nov 2006
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
Actually, the French, if I recall correctly, agreed that Iraq had WMDs, they just did not want us to invade. Later we learned that several high-ranking Frenchie political types had taken large payments from Iraq.
You've got to stop getting all your information from talk radio...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Lynn MagdalenCollege
Shipmate
# 10651
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
The other thing she brags about -- selling the governor's jet on e-Bay -- is also a lie. She listed it on e-Bay, couldn't sell it that way, and the state ended up hiring a broker to sell it.
That's what I heard her say: "I put it on eBay," not "I sold it on eBay." The point you're missing is that she sold the jet. Now the Alaskan people don't have to keep a line item on the budget for "Governor's jet", followed closely by "pilot and staff for governor's jet." I'm sure it's much less expensive to take commercial flights or even charter, from time to time.
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Erin & Friend; Been there, done that; Ruth musical
Posts: 6263 | From: California | Registered: Nov 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Sarah came into office and got shit done. lots of it. her budget balancing was fair and she was the queen of slashing pork.
Not according to the top name on the ticket.
I was talking about the state budget. that article discusses the state and Wasilla benefiting from the federal budget.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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SeraphimSarov
Shipmate
# 4335
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Sarah came into office and got shit done. lots of it. her budget balancing was fair and she was the queen of slashing pork.
Not according to the top name on the ticket.
I was talking about the state budget. that article discusses the state and Wasilla benefiting from the federal budget.
her entire record has to be considered and it is about time it is after the ass-kissing of the past few weeks
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"For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like"
Posts: 2247 | From: Sacramento, California | Registered: Apr 2003
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
As I understand it, ABC's Charlie Gibson is going to interview Sarah Palin Thursday night, on the evening news. ("World News Tonight", I think.) This will be Sarah's first interview.
Could be interesting. Charlie can be a pain sometimes, and I don't mean simply in the sense of asking tough questions. Personally, I think ABC's Elizabeth Vargas would be a much better choice--quiet, calm, smart, deceptively harmless, and tough. Since she's a woman and a mom, she could put Sarah at ease and/or challenge her as someone who understands a career and family juggling act. It would be good for the Dems, because Elizabeth would challenge Sarah. It would be good for the Reps, because Elizabeth would be fair and reasonably respectful.
I would guess that the interview will eventually be posted at ABCNews.com, and probably on YouTube.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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